Having trouble introducing new kitten to old cat

Definitely -- trying to get him used to my hands on his paws / claws so he won't freak out whenever I need to clip his nails. Telling him not to bite whenever he does it, and stopping play immediately for a few minutes.

So far no adverse reaction to us, only objects like towels that smell like him (Oldie sniffs and walks away).

CatMadNeedHelp said:

Definitely -- trying to get him used to my hands on his paws / claws so he won't freak out whenever I need to clip his nails. Telling him not to bite whenever he does it, and stopping play immediately for a few minutes.

So far no adverse reaction to us, only objects like towels that smell like him (Oldie sniffs and walks away).

Click to expand...

That is a very good sign, since it means that Oldie is not over-reacting to Newbie's scent.

And if Oldie is able to be distracted, by using her toy, or even a game she likes,...that is even better, to calm her down.

Once you start 'site swapping', then you'll be able to observe more, of how Oldie acts in Newbie's room, and vice versa.

Hopefully, by next week, Oldie will be much more comfortable by this little intruder/future pal.

Sometimes it's the little ones that bother the older cats, so it's good that you are able to teach him, and expend his energy through play sessions.

If Oldie does have a favourite treat, or food, then you can also give it to her, after every positive reaction, or positive steps she makes in lessening her reactions.

Though giving her, her toy, sounds like an even better thing that works.

I think your two, won't take long, to become friends.

So far a lot less hissing than usual today -- in fact, none at all. But she is still a little hesitant when it comes to eating her food, but I'll take zero hissing as a win. I moved the bowls even further and now they're a few feet away from the door. Oldie also cuddled with me today when I was watching TV, which is something she hasn't been doing ever since we got Newbie (Oldie's been avoiding me). 

CatMadNeedHelp said:

 
So far a lot less hissing than usual today -- in fact, none at all. But she is still a little hesitant when it comes to eating her food, but I'll take zero hissing as a win. I moved the bowls even further and now they're a few feet away from the door. Oldie also cuddled with me today when I was watching TV, which is something she hasn't been doing ever since we got Newbie (Oldie's been avoiding me). 

Click to expand...

No hissing is amazing. And even better that Oldie was cuddling with you.

It's so funny how our cats give us 'non-verbal', or sometimes verbal, signals to tell us that they are 'ticked' at us. The 'cold shoulder' works all the time, or the 'cat glance, and then turn, and walk away' cat walk.

I'm glad that Oldie is getting back to her usual routines.

Hey, are we ever going to see some photos of these two cats? Maybe in the future, some time? No pressure...since you are busy with the intro's and all.  

Just remember to take a lot of photos. (unless it bothers Oldie...then don't do it so much.)  

Great update.  

cat nap said:

 
No hissing is amazing. And even better that Oldie was cuddling with you.

It's so funny how our cats give us 'non-verbal', or sometimes verbal, signals to tell us that they are 'ticked' at us. The 'cold shoulder' works all the time, or the 'cat glance, and then turn, and walk away' cat walk.

I'm glad that Oldie is getting back to her usual routines.

Hey, are we ever going to see some photos of these two cats? Maybe in the future, some time? No pressure...since you are busy with the intro's and all.

 

Just remember to take a lot of photos. (unless it bothers Oldie...then don't do it so much.)

 

Great update.

 

Click to expand...

I may have spoken too soon.

At one point Newbie was mewing and Oldie went right up to the door and listened for a while, making no noise -- and even ate a significant portion of her wet food without incident, but at one point after a mew, she started hissing and growling again.

 

Looks like my pics didn't make it on that last post. Trying here again using the pic tools:

Oldie:

 
Newbie:

 

CatMadNeedHelp said:

Newbie:

 

newbie.jpg

• catmadneedhelp
• Nov 26, 2016

Click to expand...

Oh, Wow, are they ever adorable. 

Oldie has such beautiful eyes with those markings around them, and those ear tufts are gorgeous.

And little Newbie also has great tabby markings, and such a cute face.

Those kitten ears are the best...I forgot how kittens have huge ears that they grow into. He looks very smart and sweet.

CatMadNeedHelp said:

 
I may have spoken too soon.

At one point Newbie was mewing and Oldie went right up to the door and listened for a while, making no noise -- and even ate a significant portion of her wet food without incident, but at one point after a mew, she started hissing and growling again.
 

Click to expand...

That's okay. There can be some minor incidents, or set-backs, along the way...but I would consider this, none of those,...since it's still part of the process, and it's not yet been a full week.

Oldie is still getting comfortable.

I keep thinking about what you mentioned about Oldie perhaps seeing Newbie, and being more calm, after realizing he is small and a kitten.

The problem is though, I would think that Oldie would know by the sound of Newbie's mew, that he is smaller. (and some cats don't really like how bouncy, and erratic kittens move, until they get used to them.) Because Oldie is still not comfortable with Newbie's scent, or sound, then it is better to take things slow.

After the scent swapping, I would try the 'room swapping', or even if you can leave Oldie in your bedroom, and let little Newbie explore more of the apartment.

Oldie might feel she is being punished if put in the bathroom, so a room would be better.

Make sure you have many Vertical Spaces for both cats to escape to.

Things like cat trees, side tables, shelves, all work for cats if they want to rest, and relax, away from the other cat.

What's Oldie's personality like? Is she more cautious, and always alert? Or does she usually like to laze around and cuddle? Does she like to play with toys?

cat nap said:

 
That's okay. There can be some minor incidents, or set-backs, along the way...but I would consider this, none of those,...since it's still part of the process, and it's not yet been a full week.

Oldie is still getting comfortable.

I keep thinking about what you mentioned about Oldie perhaps seeing Newbie, and being more calm, after realizing he is small and a kitten.

The problem is though, I would think that Oldie would know by the sound of Newbie's mew, that he is smaller. (and some cats don't really like how bouncy, and erratic kittens move, until they get used to them.) Because Oldie is still not comfortable with Newbie's scent, or sound, then it is better to take things slow.

After the scent swapping, I would try the 'room swapping', or even if you can leave Oldie in your bedroom, and let little Newbie explore more of the apartment.

Oldie might feel she is being punished if put in the bathroom, so a room would be better.

Make sure you have many Vertical Spaces for both cats to escape to.

Things like cat trees, side tables, shelves, all work for cats if they want to rest, and relax, away from the other cat.

What's Oldie's personality like? Is she more cautious, and always alert? Or does she usually like to laze around and cuddle? Does she like to play with toys?

Click to expand...

Yeah, we set up some gates + blanket and tried a very very very brief sighted introduction. It was a little hissier than usual but no signs of outright aggression. I think Oldie is just really nervous.

But I try imagining it from Oldie's perspective and on some level I can see why. She can smell Newbie, hear him, etc, but she has no idea what is going on over there, so it scares her. 

Oldie's personality = normally very calm, but also paranoid. She hides if there are > 3 guests present or so. Very cautious around new guests but she warms up soon enough. She likes chasing string and playing fetch, but mostly spends her time sleeping. She's not huge on cuddling but she does like to curl up in a ball near you. 

It's really good that you are thinking about things from Oldie's perspective.

I think she still needs more time, to adjust to Newbie being in her territory.

I think she might be more angry, than scared, but hopefully that is changing.

(Or maybe that was just how my rainbow cat Spotty acted when I first brought some kittens into the house. I kept them separate, but he knew they were there, and when I finally let them meet, he still hissed and didn't want anything to do with them. He would lay in the hallway, and sleep near the dog, keeping an eye on the kittens, behind the gate, near the back door. Then after about 2 or 3 weeks, he actually decided to be near them, and let them sleep in the same room as him. By this time, the kittens had also learned to not bother, or jump on him, and to understand that he didn't want to play, like they did. But he was much older, at 15 yrs, and Spotty did grow up with other cats, and dogs. So I guess each animal personality is different, and it also depends upon the situation.)

Spotty was like Oldie, not a lap cat, but liked to curl up near you.

So cool that Oldie likes chasing string and playing fetch.

(I could never get the fetch game correct. I  would use ping pong balls, or crumpled pieces of paper,...but I was often the one having to get up, and go find the ball.)        

Hoping that each day for you, gets easier and easier. With all cats behaving well.   At least 'cat intro's' bring excitement and fun. Sure, sometimes a little stress too, but a little is okay. All you have to do is remain calm, and transfer that calmness, onto the cats.

cat nap said:

(I could never get the fetch game correct. I  would use ping pong balls, or crumpled pieces of paper,...but I was often the one having to get up, and go find the ball.)  

 

 

 

Click to expand...

We use these crinkly toys that look like sushi -- just found out a few minutes ago that Newbie likes playing fetch with them as well, so might be worth a shot!

Another update:

Decided to go for more sight today. Pulled up the towel so both cats could clearly see each other through the gate. At first, Oldie was *extremely* hissy and growly, but we started playing with each cat at the same time and soon they became distracted / desensitized enough to each other's presence to some extent. Not entirely, as sometimes they'd stop and get into a bit of a stare-war and Oldie would hiss, but it definitely became less frequent as time went on. At one point she even came up somewhat close to the gate without hissing, but she only stayed there for ~10 seconds or so.

Decided to close the door and end on a high note -- hopefully as we do this more and more she'll start hissing less. Seems like being able to see each other was an important step. 

CatMadNeedHelp said:

 
We use these crinkly toys that look like sushi -- just found out a few minutes ago that Newbie likes playing fetch with them as well, so might be worth a shot!

Click to expand...

I don't think I know those crinkly toys that look like sushi.

I know the crinkly ball cat toys, but will have to look online for the ones you mentioned.

Another sited exposure today -- sat in the bathroom with Newbie with the door open + gates up, and my SO on the other side of the fence keeping an eye on Oldie.

Oldie hissed a lot, but now seems to be okay with coming up to the gate more often. At one point she even started eating out of her bowl, which is now up against the door.

Oldie stares at Newbie as if he were dinner, which I find a little disconcerting. Lots of hissing and low-growling, especially when they lock eyes.

Newbie just kind of sits there and takes it, occasionally looking up at me and getting cuddly. He doesn't seem to care that this large mystery cat is hissing and growling at him all the time.

Good update, especially the part of Oldie going up and eating out of her bowl.

The part about ..."Oldie stares at Newbie as if he were dinner, which I find a little disconcerting."...is a bit worrying. Yikes. But hopefully, with more scent swapping, room swapping, and sight exposure,..and ending on positive notes, play times, and plenty of time,...then Oldie will be more and more comfortable each day.

Perhaps, on the next sight exposure, you and your SO can switch places, and see if Oldie's reaction is different.

Keep sending Oldie your calm vibes, so she's able to relax, more and more.

Not sure if these links will work here, but I took some video:

Those videos you posted are great.

It really shows that Oldie seems to be more angry, that Newbie is in her territory.

It's what cats do when outside, and one cat wants to run another cat off from their territory. Oldie seems to be wanting to run Newbie off.

(Newbie, at one point, tries to decide if it's better to hide in that tunnel/bed, but makes a better choice in choosing his human, for protection.)

And it's interesting that Oldie, in the 2nd video, still looks at the former place that Newbie was, versus watching him cuddling with his human.

Almost like she's focused on that spot.

It's going to take a lot more time for Oldie to settle down, and not be bothered by Newbie, in her home.

Sometimes cat intro's take months, until the resident cat accepts the new one.

But it is a good sign that Oldie is coming up to the gate and sniffing, and also trying to eat, at one point.

I wonder if some Articles on 'diminishing aggression in cats' would help.

One of the past advisors here, 'Feralvr',... mentioned Pam Johnson-Bennett, and the sock-method for transferring cheek pheromones, and the TCS (the Cat Site) Article also mentions her.

http://www.catbehaviorassociates.com/how-to-introduce-a-second-cat/

http://www.catbehaviorassociates.com/a-simple-little-trick-to-use-during-new-cat-introductions/

I'm also wondering if Oldie is getting a little jealous that Newbie is there.

And how to reassure Oldie that she is not being replaced.

I would strongly continue the scent swapping, and try the room swapping next. Also great that you are talking to Oldie, and calming her down, with your voice.

Scent exchange will cause the most positive acceptance. It may take weeks.

Play sessions will also help both cats, as you are already doing those, for distraction, and also energy release.

How long after this type of encounter, does it take for Oldie to fully relax? Do you notice if she still walks around the place, cautiously, or rather shakes it off, and goes back to her usual walking.

Yeah, I'll have to try the sock thing again. I did put a few socks in Oldie's bed but she'd just sniff them and walk away. Oldie also likes sleeping on the foot of our bed lately, so maybe we can put a blanket there that Newbie has used?

cat nap said:

 
How long after this type of encounter, does it take for Oldie to fully relax? Do you notice if she still walks around the place, cautiously, or rather shakes it off, and goes back to her usual walking.

Click to expand...

She's a bit on-edge for a few seconds but she returns to her normal self soon enough.

CatMadNeedHelp said:

Yeah, I'll have to try the sock thing again. I did put a few socks in Oldie's bed but she'd just sniff them and walk away. Oldie also likes sleeping on the foot of our bed lately, so maybe we can put a blanket there that Newbie has used?


She's a bit on-edge for a few seconds but she returns to her normal self soon enough.

Click to expand...

I think you want to introduce Oldie to Newbie's smell, but not make her think that her space has been taken over. I wouldn't leave the smell on any of her favorite places.

talkingpeanut said:

I think you want to introduce Oldie to Newbie's smell, but not make her think that her space has been taken over. I wouldn't leave the smell on any of her favorite places.

Click to expand...

Any recommendations for better places to leave them?

So far, Oldie just sort of walks away from anything containing Newbie's scent.