Corona or Calicivirus?

Hello all, I just lost a very loving, sweet cat today, Athena, which was unrelated to this new thread. I just wanted to mention it in case my grammar is off or my sentences seem jumbled. I'm not in a good place right now.

Anyway, I have 14 cats now, all strictly indoor. I'm going to make a few points without writing a whole essay and see if anyone has had the same thing happen or what virus my cats could have.

-we brought in two stray kittens three or four months ago now
-kept them separated for the most part just in case they were sick
-the kittens were sneezy but did not have watery eyes or runny noses, was worried about Feline Leukemia as I've never had such seemingly sick kittens
-one seemed more sick than the other, third eyelids showing and less energy, diarrhea
-vet gave us antibiotics for the boys, the seemed to perk up
-couple weeks later, my other (13) cats at the time became strangely sick
-in 10 years, never had one sick cat
-lethargic, appetite but could not eat or drink due to (burns? sores?) on their tongues and in their mouths
-few were worse off than others with excessive drooling
-one had an open sore on her nose and down into her mouth
-no runny eyes, no noticably runny noses, vet suggested they were chemical burns from a new litter deoderizer
-all put on antibiotics and given an oral rinse for 7 days, twice a day, including the kittens again as a precaution, though they were still kept separate
-oral rinse seemed to help with the sores and the antibiotics helped with their fevers (we took three of the 15 cats in, all with 103+ temps, so we assumed they all had it as they all had the same symptoms)
-cats all perked up after the seven days and were eating and drinking normally
-kittens got tested for Feline Leukemia; negative
-kittens to this day are 7 months old, active, eating, and pooping normally, however they sneeze occasionally and one had ear infections in both ears that has recently cleared up due to an antibiotic shot (maybe the kittens have allergies? Food allergies?)
-hoped that the cats just had chemical burns and not a virus after all, best case scenario as we didn't want a reoccurence
-fast forward about a month ago
-one of my eldest cats begins to gag quite a bit, nothing coming up
-loses her meow, can't eat or drink without gagging
-has diarrhea
-take her to the vet, has a fever, is very dehydrated, vet suggests the antibiotics could have messed her intestines up and so she developed diarrhea, thus making her dehydrated, thus causing her throat to be dry and causing her to gag
-intervenal fluids given to her
-seems to absorb all the water in less than thirty minutes, perks up
-did not see any obstruction in throat or mouth, no redness
-no sneezing or runny eyes
-we kept her separate from the other cats whilst she was on her 7-day antibiotics for her fever and probiotics to help her tummy (given two hours apart)
-she recovers
-eating, drinking, normal poops
-hopeful this was just a hiccup and now we could move past all the strange illnesses, or perhaps it was specifically only with this cat and not a virus (heart problem or just dehydration)
-fast forward to a few days ago
-another cat showing the same exact symptoms as the last cat, now we know it is not just a hiccup, but another bug going around some of my cats
(((-one other cat Athena (RIP) was showing a little gagging as well but vet took her temperature before her tragic passing today and deduced she did not have a fever like the other cat did)))
-gagging, hoarse, fever 103+
-NO diarrhea
-started antibiotics today and also an immune booster

So that is the story thus far. Does ANYONE have any idea what in the world this could be? The vet says he thinks it's upper respiratory, but what really could that be? Has anyone else experienced this?

Small update: Artie seems to be getting a little better, even just at dose two of her antibiotics and immune booster. She is gagging a little when she purrs, but not nearly as much. So hopefully the outcome at the end of her seven days will be the same as my other cat who had this; seemingly full recovery. Still would appreciate any insight on this strange illness my cats have gone through and are going through.
Another one of my cats seemed a little down last night when I gave Artie her medications, not like his normal, crazy self. As a precaution I gave him a dose of the immune booster (we were told we can give it to any of the cats if need be) and this morning he is back to normal. Not sure if he was just sleepy last night or if the medicine helped him. He just had a sad, sick look in his eyes like he did the first time they all got sick and his ears felt a little warm. I did not give him antibiotics as I did not take his temperature. I figured I would try the immune booster first and if we needed to get a temperature in the morning we would and if he had a fever we would go back to the vet and buy his own bottle so we don't cross contaminate more than we have to. I'm also keeping Arthemis separated in my room with her own food, water, and litter box. She seems to have used the litter box, and I have seen her eating - or attempting to eat. I have yet to see her drink water, though. Hopefully that'll come soon.

It just dawned on me to give Arthemis some wet food, so I gave her her favourite; Fancy Feast. Not as healthy as their regular Blue Buffalo, but she needs the fluids and she needs to be able to eat. My mind is a foggy mess, definitely not where it needs to be after losing and mourning the loss of my other cat, Athena, since yesterday. I need to try to keep a clear head and take care of the ones who are sick now and need me.

I'm so sorry your kitten died. it's heartbreaking to have a kitten die and then have others become ill so soon after.

I've been watching your post waiting for someone to answer your question, I'm only answering to commiserate and to bump this up so that someone will see it.

I will give you the little information I learned when one of my kitten's came down with an upper- respiratory illness. Both my kittens had their shots, one, however, gave the other an upper respiratory illness when she first arrived. My resident kitten developed the following symptoms:

Loss of appetite (anorexia)
Eye discharge
Nasal discharge
Development of ulcers on tongue, hard palate, tip of nose, and lips
Pneumonia
Difficult breathing after development of pneumonia
Fever

Reverse cough

They can also develop but I either did not recognise them or my kitten didn't have them:
Bleeding from various sites
Arthritis (inflammation of joints)
Lameness
Painful walk

Something I learned about FCV is that it is extremely difficult to diagnose. My cat was admitted to a Veterinary Teaching Hospital, was placed on a drip and was given a battery of tests to rule out FIV. They just kept testing her until she eventually rode out the virus. 

I hope someone who has experience with cat illnesses sees this post. I wish you all the best. 

moorspede said:

I'm so sorry your kitten died. it's heartbreaking to have a kitten die and then have others become ill so soon after.

I've been watching your post waiting for someone to answer your question, I'm only answering to commiserate and to bump this up so that someone will see it.

I will give you the little information I learned when one of my kitten's came down with an upper- respiratory illness. Both my kittens had their shots, one, however, gave the other an upper respiratory illness when she first arrived. My resident kitten developed the following symptoms:

Loss of appetite (anorexia)

Eye discharge

Nasal discharge

Development of ulcers on tongue, hard palate, tip of nose, and lips

Pneumonia

Difficult breathing after development of pneumonia

Fever
Reverse cough


They can also develop but I either did not recognise them or my kitten didn't have them:

Bleeding from various sites

Arthritis (inflammation of joints)

Lameness

Painful walk


Something I learned about FCV is that it is extremely difficult to diagnose. My cat was admitted to a Veterinary Teaching Hospital, was placed on a drip and was given a battery of tests to rule out FIV. They just kept testing her until she eventually rode out the virus. 

I hope someone who has experience with cat illnesses sees this post. I wish you all the best. 

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Athena, my darling that passed away, was not a kitten. She was five years old and was unrelated to this upper respiratory problem the others might be having. Hers was more of a cardiac problem, we think. Thank you for your condolences, however. The two kittens I introduced a few months ago are brothers and both came to us in sort of rough condition. They are both very healthy now and extremely active. Like I said, occasionally they will sneeze, but their eyes are clear, no coughing, no discharge from their nose. One of them does have black that forms in both of his nostrils and reappears after we remove it. They have been treated for fleas, and up until recently, have not had fleas for months. The black still appears in his nostrils and I do not know why.
Anyway, none of the others are sneezing, have any discharge from anywhere, no painful walks, all very active cats. I have no idea what it is that goes around and then goes away for weeks and now seems to come back in a different form.. only affecting two of my cats thus far for this new "round". These two cats actually seem to be my two more stressed cats. Boo (10 years old) I have had since day one, since she was born. Her and her sister are cats #1 and #2 in our 14-cat household. She hates one of my male 17-pound black cats because he is awful to her and the other cats.. and to his humans as well. He had a rough beginning to his life so I do not blame him, I blame the people who first had him before we rescued him from their awful house three years ago. But anyway, she hisses and growls and gets chased by him all the time (she is not the only one, but she freaks out the most), and to her, my other two black male cats - and basically all of my males cats - are evil in her mind, so she usually is happiest in my room with the door shut. We have a litter box and food and water in here for her so this is where she stays usually. We would let other cats in, but whilst she recovered, it was only her in here for a week or so. Now she is kicked out into the rest of the house so Arthemis can recover in here. The less stress, the better recovery.
Arthemis is our all-white, fluffy, blue eyed little lady. She wound up at our doorstep four years ago, emaciated and hours from death. The vet suspected she had not eaten for six months or so; she was only 4.5 pounds and they guess a year to a year and a half years old. How she ended up at our dooratep is beyond me, and how she survived is even more of a mystery. She was cat #5 in the house, now in a 14-cat household. She is now about 12 or 13 pounds and a beautiful cat, however she is a very high-strung cat. When she is stressed, she basically tears her skin apart around her neck from scratching. Or if she has fleas she does the same thing, perhaps due to her albino complexion, her skin my be extra sensitive to things. She is particularly stressed out because of a black and white tuxedo, adult, female cat we introduced about a year ago to the house. Her name is Charlotte. She is not aggressive, she is actually a very sweet cat, but for some reason Arthemis loves to attack her and make her life, as well as her own, miserable. She is so focused on bullying Charlotte that she stresses out terribly over it. We protect Charlotte from Arthemis by standing in front of Charlotte and making Arthemis back down. Charlotte knows we protect her so I think her stress levels are not too bad. She trusts us to keep Artie away, and we do a good job of it when we are around. They both get immense amounts of love and affection and are both treated very well, so I don't know why Artie has such animosity towards Charlotte. All of my cats are neutered/spayed, just to make that clear.
The first round was the worst where almost all my cats had the same exact symptoms. The one that passed away and her closer feline friend were actually the ones that really did not have any of the symptoms. These cats spent at least 9 months of the beginning of their lives outdoors before we adopted them into our house, so perhaps they were already exposed before? I don't know. Or maybe the fact these two cats in particular were basement dwellers and did not use the litter boxes upstairs that a majority of the others did. Feces seems to be a big thing to spread certain viruses. The cats that seem to have lived indoors most of their lives are the ones who were mostly affected by this.. strange virus.. that caused sores in their mouths and burn-like abrasions on their tongues, and for one cat, on her nose. During this time they did not lose their appetites, they just cried and pawed at their mouths indicating they were unable to eat due to the sores. They could not even drink water so most would sit by their water dishes and cry. It was a horrible sight and I would not wish that part of the virus especially, or whatever they had, on any other cat or person ever. It was awful to watch.
So yeah, that is all I have as of right now. Arthemis seems to have developed diarrhea in the last couple days, I suspect this is from her antibiotics. Other than that, she seems to be doing better. Her gagging has decreased more than half and I have seen her drinking water at least once now. If history repeats itself, she will recover just as Boo did. I just wish I knew exactly what was going on.
Thank you for sharing your story and your insight; hopefully more people will be able to step up and share their own knowledge of what this could be, or any personal stories that might coninside with my own.

Hi @Conifersously

I'm really sorry about your loss...I guess I have a few questions...first off it sounds like you take really good care of your cats...they are spayed/neutered and when this virus thing happened you seemed to be able to take them all to vet...my questions are this....how many litter boxes do you have and what are you using for litter...my next question is how big is your home and what are the other environmental factors. ...next has anyone brought in lilies or petunias...do you live in the states...is it possible they go into chemicals/food/plants...by any chance if you do live in states where have you done/gotten their vaccinations from...ok sorry for the 3rd degree just want to rule out lots of stuff

imjustacatmom said:

Hi @Conifersously

I'm really sorry about your loss...I guess I have a few questions...first off it sounds like you take really good care of your cats...they are spayed/neutered and when this virus thing happened you seemed to be able to take them all to vet...my questions are this....how many litter boxes do you have and what are you using for litter...my next question is how big is your home and what are the other environmental factors. ...next has anyone brought in lilies or petunias...do you live in the states...is it possible they go into chemicals/food/plants...by any chance if you do live in states where have you done/gotten their vaccinations from...ok sorry for the 3rd degree just want to rule out lots of stuff

Click to expand...

No problem at all! Questions are good. I'm willing to answer anything. And thank you for your condolences; my heart is broken over losing our sweet angel, Athena.
We take very good care of our babies. It was very tough giving 15 cats antibiotics every 12 hours plus an oral rinse every 12 hours for a whole week. I really don't know how we did it.

-We have 12 litter boxes. All cleaned with bleach today and equipped with new litter. We use Tidy Cats. The blue, red, and black ones that come in the plastic 30-pound, I believe, container. We use Arm & Hammer as a deoderizer occasionally.
-Our house is not too big. We have two bedrooms and a bathroom and a half. We have a decently-large basement. I also have three cat trees in the house to help add some extra square footage. We have a couple crinkle tubes that the cats can escape to if they want privacy. They have plenty of window space and beds to lay on. I live with my mom, sister, and my boyfriend. We live in a duplex and the neighbours next door plan on moving soon, so my boyfriend and I plan on moving in there and taking half the cats to help reduce any stress. Most of the cats, however, get along quite well and don't seem bothered by the others. There are a few that do seem a little stressed from the amount we have, but as I said, for the most part they seem fine. The more stressed ones have places they can escape to if they need to, such as my room.
-No plants in the house at all.
-I do live in The States - Northeastern Ohio.
-I do not think there is any chance they got into any sort of chemicals or anything poisonous to them. However, we used a Hartz brand litter deodorizer one time because the store was out of our usual Arm & Hammer. A day later these sores started to appear in their mouths, that's why we initially believed they got chemical burns from this new deodorizer. The vet suggested to clean the litter boxes with bleach and rid the old litter and replace it with new, just in case. He said sores can come with a strand of calicivirus, but he was not seeing any other symptoms to indicate that's what it was.
-We get their vaccines at Primary Pet Care. However, as our cats are indoor only, we only gave them their first core vaccines before they got neutered/spayed and never went back for their yearlies on anything of the sort. We honestly didn't see the point. I guess we were lucky bringing cats in up until the two newest. That seems to be where our luck ended with healthy cats for 10 years. I've never had sick cats in my entire life, so I was pretty ignorant to the fact all these viruses were out there.

If I failed to answer a question properly, feel free to have me elaborate.

You did great and thank you...so I would like to makea few suggestions....but first it does sound like it could've been the deoderizer...now I'm not sure if you knew this already but for every cat it is good they havev their own litter box....and then extras too...I know it seems crazy but a lot of issues stem from feces....and the spread/touching etc...I'm sure you understand on that as you mentioned it yourself...yes good that they got cleaned by bleach...you mentioned fleas...do they get treatments...I know they care indoors but we humans can track fleas in....and fleas spread nasty viruses/illness....next do you happen to have a Costco membership? If you do...there is a litter that I personally have found to be hands down the best...why the best...it doesn't stink if you are properly cleaning them...which btw needs to be done at least twice a day with that many cats....this litter us called Scoop Away Complete. ..you get a 42 pound bag for around $10....it really is great stuff...no deoderizer needed when using this stuff...you can get it at Wal-Mart too...just not that much for that price...I hope that I have been able to help...when I was a little girl I had like 28 cats and kittens at one time and this was the early 80's so we didn't really know to much about spaying and neutering back then lolol...when having that many cats its imperative to look atvall aspects for their total well being...like making sure there . Are enough litter boxes...to use Jackson Galaxy's words...that the house and area's should be catified...like building a kitty highway...which basically is making shelfs another or two more cat trees would be good...blankets toys...etc...next they should all get their boosters and rabies...especially if you care bringing in strays...I don't say this to nag...it truly is whats needed to ensure their overall health...ok blessings tob you I'll be back tomorrow to check thread...its 2:30 in the morning here goodnight [emoji]128049[/emoji][emoji]128571[/emoji][emoji]128568[/emoji][emoji]128570[/emoji][emoji]128008[/emoji]

imjustacatmom said:

You did great and thank you...so I would like to makea few suggestions....but first it does sound like it could've been the deoderizer...now I'm not sure if you knew this already but for every cat it is good they havev their own litter box....and then extras too...I know it seems crazy but a lot of issues stem from feces....and the spread/touching etc...I'm sure you understand on that as you mentioned it yourself...yes good that they got cleaned by bleach...you mentioned fleas...do they get treatments...I know they care indoors but we humans can track fleas in....and fleas spread nasty viruses/illness....next do you happen to have a Costco membership? If you do...there is a litter that I personally have found to be hands down the best...why the best...it doesn't stink if you are properly cleaning them...which btw needs to be done at least twice a day with that many cats....this litter us called Scoop Away Complete. ..you get a 42 pound bag for around $10....it really is great stuff...no deoderizer needed when using this stuff...you can get it at Wal-Mart too...just not that much for that price...I hope that I have been able to help...when I was a little girl I had like 28 cats and kittens at one time and this was the early 80's so we didn't really know to much about spaying and neutering back then lolol...when having that many cats its imperative to look atvall aspects for their total well being...like making sure there . Are enough litter boxes...to use Jackson Galaxy's words...that the house and area's should be catified...like building a kitty highway...which basically is making shelfs another or two more cat trees would be good...blankets toys...etc...next they should all get their boosters and rabies...especially if you care bringing in strays...I don't say this to nag...it truly is whats needed to ensure their overall health...ok blessings tob you I'll be back tomorrow to check thread...its 2:30 in the morning here goodnight [emoji]128049[/emoji][emoji]128571[/emoji][emoji]128568[/emoji][emoji]128570[/emoji][emoji]128008[/emoji]

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Okay, I agree 100% about the litter boxes. I will definitely pick up some more perhaps tomorrow. My mom doesn't enjoy the amount we have, but it is well worth it in my opinion - especially since my boyfriend and I pay for the vet bills. We have seven in the basement, one on the main floor, two in the hallway upstairs, one in the bathroom upstairs in the closet, and one in my room. I really can only add more to the basement at this point, but at least I will be adding some.

-They are indoors and still get fleas. As you mentioned, I'm sure we track them in somehow. They get treated whenever we notice them scratching more than usual. We just treated them 10 days ago. We use Advantage II.
-I do not have a Costco membership, but I will definitely mention that to my boyfriend and take it from there. I'm willing to try anything, so if a transition to a better litter is needed, then so be it.
-I have thought about more cat trees as well. I'll look into it. I love making my babies happy, so money spent on them is money well spent. They have a couple beds and so many toys around the house as well. Perches to look outside the windows and all that fun stuff.
-I was thinking about getting them all back on track with their shots, since my two eldest have not had shots in probably nine years now.. but we were told they've already been exposed so getting their shots won't help anything. And even though I don't mind spending money on them, money is limited. And dragging 14 cats to the vet (not at once) wouldn't be ideal either, especially as the vet is 20 minutes away and Athena passed away there yesterday from what seemed like anxiety or a heart attack from being so worked up. It scares me to bring all of them back there again. The vet even made it so that we can come in without the cats to get antibiotics or immune boosters whenever we need them so we don't have another tragedy.. I haven't lost a cat in ten years almost, and Athena being only five years old breaks my heart. All of my cats are five or younger, besides the two eldest, whom are sisters, and 10 years old.
-I would just like to mention what I feed them too in case that factors in. We were feeding them some sort of Purina indoor blend for a long time. We have 9 bowls of food for them. We would fill these bowls to the brim whenever they were even just half-way empty. These bowls each hold at least two cups, the bigger ones maybe even three or four. We recently decided that just having food available constantly was not good for them at all. They pooped a lot and it just seemed they were overeating. Especially with all cats ranging from 11 pounds to 17 pounds, besides the two youngest who are probably between 7-9 pounds now.
I have began to feed them on a new schedule. For about the last week or so, I have been feeding them Blue Buffalo Multi-Cat. Each bowl gets filled with half a cup in the morning, usually around 6am, and then another half a cup around 6pm. ((So about 9 cups of food a day for 14 cats. Do you think that's enough if most of them really could slim down a bit? The bowls are usually empty, or close to, after the 12 hours. I read that cats over ten pounds need .5-1 cup of food per day where the ones under ten are about .25-.5 cups a day. So with 11-12 cats over ten pounds, I'd think that would be 5-10 cups a day, but I only have two boys that are 17 pounds, the rest 14 or under. So I'd think they'd need about 6-7 cups for the 12 over ten pounds and then maybe 1 cup for the two or three that are under. Especially if, as I mentioned, they could really do with slimming down.)) I have noticed the litter boxes have not been nearly as full, which I think is probably a good thing? Or so I hope. I figure they are actually digesting their food and absorbing it rather than overeating and constantly pooping. I also have seen some of them slim down just a tad in their front/chest area and even their necks. Do you think this is a good thing I'm doing? Obviously seeing them lose a little unnecessary and unneeded weight is a good thing, but in my paranoid mind it scares me and makes me think maybe it isn't the changing of their diet or eating habits doing it, but a virus instead. I don't think that's the case, but naturally it scares me. I've never fed the cats on a scheduled-basis in my life, so this is new to me. I just hope I'm doing the right thing. Especially after being fixed, most of the cats really fattened up, and I don't want to cause them any health issues by feeding them constantly. I've also noticed less puking from the cats. Their vomit used to consist of undigested food, so I also assumed from overeating.
-I also want to mention I have six bowls of water for them.. let me elaborate though. I have two fountains, one that holds probably 3 quarts or more in the little tank bit and then probably another quart in the actual bowl area. So about a gallon of water. The other fountain holds about half a gallon of water. We have a self-dispensing water dish that also has a tank on the back, which holds about half a gallon in the tank and the bowl total. Then we have a normal bowl, it doesn't self-dispense or have a fountain. It's for the cats that are sort of shy of the ones that constantly are flowing or refill. It holds maybe two cups of water. This is on the main floor. Then upstairs we have five bowls of food (so four on the main floor) and two bowls of water. We just have a couple normal bowls on the second floor. One that holds probably 2.5-3 cups of water and the other that holds probably 4-4.5 cups. I change the water daily in the three normal bowls and add new water to the remaining water in the fountains and self-dispensing bowls. I clean their water dishes once a week with hot water and soap and clean their food bowls probaby every two weeks, but I'm probably going to start doing those once a week too.

I just want anyone who reads this to know that, yes, I do have a lot of cats, all mostly rescues, others adoptions from friends. They are very well pampered and taken care of, however.. and, of course, very loved [emoji]128571[/emoji]

But okay, good night! It's the same time here, I just had to wake up around 12:30 to give Arthemis her medicine and I just haven't been able to fall back asleep. I have too much on my mind with the cats, Athena passing yesterday and of course the ones I need to take care of and watch for any signs of illness. It's tiring being a cat momma sometimes.

What is your name...my name is Amber...very nice to meet you.... And boy that was alot of info... thank you...I love that because the more I know the more I can offer up some help...first lets start with the food...every animal mom and dad has their own preference...however I know you mentioned that the two boys were getting black spots in their noses. ..and you had mentioned a possible food allergy...or allergies. ..which is possible ...my boy not only does his breed have discharge from eyes and even in ears etc...but I have noticed when ever I give him Blue Buffalo his eyes get worse...with that being said...I give my cats Purina Cat Chow Naturasl indoor formula...which they both love and its affordable...now because you have them on a feeding schedule...I would suggest a seperate bowl for each kitty with each kitty getting the appropriate amount of food...I really liked your measurements that you had...however something I read recently and had to start doing myself...I read for our cats that are overweight take like a little less than a quarter of a cup and give it to them 4 times a day...this way they are still getting the recommended allowance just in a different way and what this does is still assures them they are eating but it also said it helps their metabolism. ..but its very important to make sure its less than a quarter cup...I got that from the petcoach...it works however cats are not like humans in the sense of weight loss...we humans lose by the pound ( which cats should never lose by the pound)...they lose by ounces...I cannot stress the importance of cleaning their bowls and water dishes daily when you have that many animals....I know it seems like a lot of time consuming responsibility. ..but it really does help with their overall health and of course bacteria doesn't get a chance to really get put of control when they are cleaned...also I realize money is tight with taking care if 14 cats plus yourself...thats why I mentioned the Costco membership. ..it really has been a God send for my husband and myself. ..and it does pay for itself in time...next thing I want to tell you is breath....dont get paranoid...allow yourself to be confident. ..I think you are doing a wonderful job...part of being a good mom us reaching out like you did and asking for help or suggestions. ...you'd actually be surprised at how many people do not do that...I believe you want the best for your babies....I am praying for you....relax you are doing great...also we have found cat tress are cheaper when bought online versus at the pet store. ..ok I have more but I gotta get ready for church....bless you

I've read most of your first post, but skimmed through everything else, so apologize if some of this has been mentioned.

It is very possible that you are dealing with more than one issue. Upper Respiratory (I do suspect Calici with the ulcers in the mouth) and a GI parasite which has caused the diarrhea.

I am seeing lots of stubborn cases of Coccidia. Have fecals been done on the cats? Were these done at the clinic or sent to an outside lab? What exactly did the vet test for?

As for Calici...
There are several strains of this, but like our Flu has several strains. Any one strain can affect one cat differently than the next.

I had Calici hut my house about 5 years ago. Out of 15 cats in the house at the time (aged 8 months to 14 years...all were integrated, all current on vaccines), only 5 of the kittens, all from one litter, got sick. 4 of the kittens only had an ulcer on their tongue or the tip of the nose. No fever, literally nothing else. Tyson on the other hand was gravely ill.

He spiked a 106.9 temp and went into acute renal failure. He had blisters all over his nose/lips, eventually causing all the skin to slough off. He was on a cocktail of about 7 different medications and ended up being sick for nearly 5 months. As a result of his ordeal, he has brain damage from the high fever and also has heart damage. (I found out that, like the Flu can affect organs in a small percentage of people, Calicivirus can do the same in cats. Heart, kidneys, etc can be attacked.)

Famciclovir (an oral antiviral) was administered to all symptomatic cats (then and now...I've seen about 3 dozen cats over the last 2 years with Calici) and other antivirals/antibiotics are given as needed.

imjustacatmom said:

What is your name...my name is Amber...very nice to meet you.... And boy that was alot of info... thank you...I love that because the more I know the more I can offer up some help...first lets start with the food...every animal mom and dad has their own preference...however I know you mentioned that the two boys were getting black spots in their noses. ..and you had mentioned a possible food allergy...or allergies. ..which is possible ...my boy not only does his breed have discharge from eyes and even in ears etc...but I have noticed when ever I give him Blue Buffalo his eyes get worse...with that being said...I give my cats Purina Cat Chow Naturasl indoor formula...which they both love and its affordable...now because you have them on a feeding schedule...I would suggest a seperate bowl for each kitty with each kitty getting the appropriate amount of food...I really liked your measurements that you had...however something I read recently and had to start doing myself...I read for our cats that are overweight take like a little less than a quarter of a cup and give it to them 4 times a day...this way they are still getting the recommended allowance just in a different way and what this does is still assures them they are eating but it also said it helps their metabolism. ..but its very important to make sure its less than a quarter cup...I got that from the petcoach...it works however cats are not like humans in the sense of weight loss...we humans lose by the pound ( which cats should never lose by the pound)...they lose by ounces...I cannot stress the importance of cleaning their bowls and water dishes daily when you have that many animals....I know it seems like a lot of time consuming responsibility. ..but it really does help with their overall health and of course bacteria doesn't get a chance to really get put of control when they are cleaned...also I realize money is tight with taking care if 14 cats plus yourself...thats why I mentioned the Costco membership. ..it really has been a God send for my husband and myself. ..and it does pay for itself in time...next thing I want to tell you is breath....dont get paranoid...allow yourself to be confident. ..I think you are doing a wonderful job...part of being a good mom us reaching out like you did and asking for help or suggestions. ...you'd actually be surprised at how many people do not do that...I believe you want the best for your babies....I am praying for you....relax you are doing great...also we have found cat tress are cheaper when bought online versus at the pet store. ..ok I have more but I gotta get ready for church....bless you

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Hi, Amber, I'm Jami. Like Jamie without the "e". Very nice to meet you!
I usually wash their bowls once a week because they don't seem to be dirty until around then. And by dirty I just mean the filters get hair and stuff in it. Especially with the water being in the tanks for the two bowls, I think it keeps the water relatively fresh. If things don't seem to get better, I will take more time to clean their dishes more often. It just usually takes a couple hours to wash everything thoroughly and put the fountains back together, etc. And since I work and have a gym membership as well that I try to use every day, it's hard to clean their bowls during the week as I don't seem to have time. That's why I do it on the weekend when I'm usually off.
As far as feeding, I don't think there is absolutely any way I can feed them the way you suggested. I leave pretty early for work, so that's why I just fill their dishes with .5 a cup each and they can eat what they want until I refill them later that evening. Like I said, they usually are close to being empty, but not quite all the way. That's why I assume that they are all eating enough for what each of them individually need. Yet again, time is the problem. I don't have the time to individually bring food to each cat and make sure they eat. If I had a few cats it would be a different story, but with 14 cats, it is just impossible I think. I appreciate the suggestion though, if things seem to go askew with the feeding, I will keep what you said in mind.
As far as the food allergies, it was only one cat with the black crust around his nostrils, Apollo, one of the two litter mate kittens, and I almost want to say maybe it's from the dust in the litter box? I don't really know, but he has quite large nostrils so maybe they just catch dust easier? Again, I don't know. He has never had any sort of ear problems or eye discharge. And his brother, Jupiter, does not have any sort of nose or eye discharge either, but he had an ear infection in each ear. I assumed it was from the grains in the old Purina food we were feeding them. Since Blue Buffalo his ears have been almost entirely clear. Granted he did get an antibiotic shot, but I do think the food change has aided in his ears clearing up as well.
I am currently making a list of what I need to do today, and I did add the Costco thing to the list. So yes, I will be looking into it today, hopefully.
Thank you for all your encouragement. I am trying my hardest with my babies. I've never had so many problems in my life since the two brothers were introduced. I just hope this word illness that is going around passes soon.

CatPack said:

I've read most of your first post, but skimmed through everything else, so apologize if some of this has been mentioned.

It is very possible that you are dealing with more than one issue. Upper Respiratory (I do suspect Calici with the ulcers in the mouth) and a GI parasite which has caused the diarrhea.

I am seeing lots of stubborn cases of Coccidia. Have fecals been done on the cats? Were these done at the clinic or sent to an outside lab? What exactly did the vet test for?

As for Calici...
There are several strains of this, but like our Flu has several strains. Any one strain can affect one cat differently than the next.

I had Calici hut my house about 5 years ago. Out of 15 cats in the house at the time (aged 8 months to 14 years...all were integrated, all current on vaccines), only 5 of the kittens, all from one litter, got sick. 4 of the kittens only had an ulcer on their tongue or the tip of the nose. No fever, literally nothing else. Tyson on the other hand was gravely ill.

He spiked a 106.9 temp and went into acute renal failure. He had blisters all over his nose/lips, eventually causing all the skin to slough off. He was on a cocktail of about 7 different medications and ended up being sick for nearly 5 months. As a result of his ordeal, he has brain damage from the high fever and also has heart damage. (I found out that, like the Flu can affect organs in a small percentage of people, Calicivirus can do the same in cats. Heart, kidneys, etc can be attacked.)

Famciclovir (an oral antiviral) was administered to all symptomatic cats (then and now...I've seen about 3 dozen cats over the last 2 years with Calici) and other antivirals/antibiotics are given as needed.

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I have not had any fecals done on any of the cats. The vet has never mentioned a need for this once. My cat, Boo, who started the gagging after the whole sores thing in the mouth passed, had diarrhea, but the vet claimed it could have been from the antibiotics she was on weeks previously when they had the sores outbreak. Her temperature was 103 something and she was prescribed antibiotics, probiotics, and given intervenal fluids at the vet, as she was dehydrated. At the time, they just figured that perhaps the fever was from the dehydration, that came from the diarrhea, that stemmed from the antibiotics. Her stool hardened up and the gagging went away. She spent a lot of time in my room so I placed water in there for her and she has seemed to drink water a lot more now.
The cat that has the same symptoms Boo had about a month ago is now in my room as well by herself. She had a temperature of 103 something as well. No diarrhea though, up until now, since she is on antibiotics. She is also on an immune booster. We are on day three of her antibiotics and she seems a lot better. She can purr and eat without gagging now. She occasionally does it still, but definitely seems better.
Back to the Coccidia, though. I just cleaned all the litter boxes, and most of the stools were normal. Two of my cats decided to go as I was cleaning them, both normal stools. Out of the 12 litter boxes, excluding one of them that Arthemis is using, the one who is currently sick, I found maybe three piles of diarrhea in the other 11 litter boxes. I have no idea whom it was from, or if it was from more than one cat. I don't know if it is due to the diet change or not. None of the other cats are showing any symptoms of being sick, but it has been worrying me since I've seen the diarrhea. I wish I knew who it was from so I could monitor them. Would all the cats have Coccodia if that were the case? And are you suggesting that my cats all had Calici and now what is going around is more upper respiratory? I realise Calici is upper respiratory, but perhaps what the two had and have now is less of the sore-carrying strand, and more of something else? Do you know anything about the gagging ordeal with the fever? One had diarrhea, one did not before her antibiotics. Thank you for sharing your story though, I feel a lot closer to figuring out what is going on with them. It's just hard to pinpoint who is sick and with what and why or how. Is there any way to keep this from going around? They only had the sores once, then they were fine for a couple months, and then Boo got the gagging thing going on, then a month later Arthemis too..
Here is a little time line of how things are going down so you can see exactly the space between the illnesses and the events between. Maybe that'll help pinpoint.
We got the kittens August 9th. Take them to the vet. Next day we take them back for sneezing and diarrhea. They get antibiotics. Less than two weeks later, we change litter deodorizer and the next day the cats have sores in their mouths and one had one on her nose. By the end of August, I believe around the 22nd, they were all better after a week of antibiotics. Then we fast forward to around to the 1st of October, and Boo gets a 103.5 temperature. A week later she is all better. Then Arthemis gets the same thing around November 16th. Goes to the vet the 18th and here we are now. I'm just at a loss.

I think it's calicivirus. It happened to me once (I have 23 indoor cats!). Same symptoms. Most of the cats got over it by themselves, only one had bad mouth sores and required force-feeding because she couldn't eat. My vet said it was a virus so no point giving antibiotics :dk:. He said these things just have to run their course and all you can do is provide supportive care. He didn't mention antivirals but he is an old farm vet :/.

I don't believe it's a litter issue or food issue (also I don't like Scoop Away, I much prefer Tidy Cats. But you have to try things for yourself). You might want to give them more canned food while they're sick, just becuse it's easier to eat with mouth sores and will keep them better hydrated.

Oops, I re-read the OP and that was the original illness! I don't have any ideas about the current illness, sorry . If it's only the older cats it could be the beginnings of kidney disease or something like that. What is the immune booster your vet gave you? If you think the antibiotics messed up their systems you could give some probiotics, try to get their systems back on track.

I'm going to address the Upper Respiratory issue first, then the diarrhea.

For UR:
Yes, Calicivirus is contagious and all the cats could very well have had it. The FVRCP vaccine that is recommend for cats covers Rhinotracheitis (associated with Feline Herpes), Calicivirus and Panleukopenia (think kitty parvo). All three are contagious and can cause serious health issues, even death (panleuk).

It quite possible that the kittens had both Calicivirus and Feline Herpes virus and gave it to all the other cats. Both will present differently in each cat depending on vaccine history, how well that vaccine worked in that particular cat and that cat's immune system.

Calicivirus is not a chronic illness; however, Feline Herpes is.

Now for the diarrhea:
Yes, Coccidia is very contagious and difficult to eradicate from the environment. Adult cats with healthy immune systems can often rid themselves of the infection, but young kittens, older cats and cats with a compromised immune system almost always need help to overcome.

There are also a whole host of parasites/Protozoa that are contagious like Giardia, Tritrichomonas, Campylobacter, Cryptosporidium, Clostridium...

Diarrhea itself will not cause a fever. Diarrhea is a symptom, just like a fever is a symptom.

To figure out who is having issues you will either need to separate all cats into their own space (room or crate) with their own litter box, food/water OR slow separate putting one cat in isolation for a day or two to see if they are having diarrhea, if not, move another cat into the room and so on until you figure out the culprit. Obviously, the latter way will take longer.

Water bowls and food dishes need to be sanitized daily until you can determine which cats are actively sick and which are not.

I would remove the water fountains for the time being. I've had these before and know what a pain they are to take apart and clean daily. Stick with regular stainless steel or ceramic bowls for water and maybe consider using paper bowls/plates for the time being if you are unable to wash the food dishes daily.

Also, a healthy adult cat won't often act ill with Coccidia/Giardia unless they critically ill.

Willowy said:

I think it's calicivirus. It happened to me once (I have 23 indoor cats!). Same symptoms. Most of the cats got over it by themselves, only one had bad mouth sores and required force-feeding because she couldn't eat. My vet said it was a virus so no point giving antibiotics :dk:. He said these things just have to run their course and all you can do is provide supportive care. He didn't mention antivirals but he is an old farm vet :/.

I don't believe it's a litter issue or food issue (also I don't like Scoop Away, I much prefer Tidy Cats. But you have to try things for yourself). You might want to give them more canned food while they're sick, just becuse it's easier to eat with mouth sores and will keep them better hydrated.

Oops, I re-read the OP and that was the original illness! I don't have any ideas about the current illness, sorry . If it's only the older cats it could be the beginnings of kidney disease or something like that. What is the immune booster your vet gave you? If you think the antibiotics messed up their systems you could give some probiotics, try to get their systems back on track.

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It's okay! I am just happy to hear that more people have had this happen and it isn't just me. I was at such a loss for what they could have had, or perhaps still have. I can now say I'm also certain they had or have Calicivirus.
The one that had this current illness is 10 years old. Her sister, Joy, lives with us too and never really got quite as sick as Boo the first time (Boo is the only one who had a sore on her nose and into the roof of her mouth), and Boo is the first one to start with the gagging and fever the second time. I assumed it was only her and it wasn't a virus, but now that Arthemis has it, I know it is. Arthemis is about five years old we think. She showed up at our doorstep four years ago, emaciated and hours from death. The vet said she probably hadn't eaten in six months. She is our miracle kitty, but maybe her emaciation left her with a more compromised immune system? So maybe she just couldn't fight it off on her own just as Boo couldn't.
The immune booster is called Transfer Factor.. or that's what it says. Not sure if that helps anything. What sort of probiotics could I give them? The vet gave us some for Boo the first time and they seemed to help her, but they didn't give us any this time as Arthemis did not have diarrhea before the antibiotics.

CatPack said:

I'm going to address the Upper Respiratory issue first, then the diarrhea.

For UR:
Yes, Calicivirus is contagious and all the cats could very well have had it. The FVRCP vaccine that is recommend for cats covers Rhinotracheitis (associated with Feline Herpes), Calicivirus and Panleukopenia (think kitty parvo). All three are contagious and can cause serious health issues, even death (panleuk).

It quite possible that the kittens had both Calicivirus and Feline Herpes virus and gave it to all the other cats. Both will present differently in each cat depending on vaccine history, how well that vaccine worked in that particular cat and that cat's immune system.

Calicivirus is not a chronic illness; however, Feline Herpes is.

Now for the diarrhea:
Yes, Coccidia is very contagious and difficult to eradicate from the environment. Adult cats with healthy immune systems can often rid themselves of the infection, but young kittens, older cats and cats with a compromised immune system almost always need help to overcome.

There are also a whole host of parasites/Protozoa that are contagious like Giardia, Tritrichomonas, Campylobacter, Cryptosporidium, Clostridium...

Diarrhea itself will not cause a fever. Diarrhea is a symptom, just like a fever is a symptom.

To figure out who is having issues you will either need to separate all cats into their own space (room or crate) with their own litter box, food/water OR slow separate putting one cat in isolation for a day or two to see if they are having diarrhea, if not, move another cat into the room and so on until you figure out the culprit. Obviously, the latter way will take longer.

Water bowls and food dishes need to be sanitized daily until you can determine which cats are actively sick and which are not.

I would remove the water fountains for the time being. I've had these before and know what a pain they are to take apart and clean daily. Stick with regular stainless steel or ceramic bowls for water and maybe consider using paper bowls/plates for the time being if you are unable to wash the food dishes daily.

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Is the FVRCP vaccine one of the core vaccines? If so, is it one that needs to be readministered every year? If that's the case, is there a point of me getting the cats that vaccine shot if they haven't had it in the last year? The vet basically told us they had already been exposed and there was not really a point to get the vaccine as it will not help them now. (Nearly all of them would need it, but the two boys, if they did get it. I don't know if they even gave them that vaccine, I will have to look.)

As for the diarrhea, like I said, Arthemis has it now after her antibiotics and Boo's cleared up after her probiotics. A lot of the cats would use the litter box in my room when we were letting them all in and I never saw diarrhea. I think the best option for me is to leave Artie in here until she gets better and then let the others in and see how their stools look. Maybe they just need some sort of probiotic mixed into their food. If they had a parasite, would probiotics cure the diarrhea? Or would it remain? I only ask because the probiotic helped Boo, so if they wouldn't help with a parasite, then perhaps it is just a thing of the change of food or even their tummies haven't been right since the antibiotics. Even though that was several weeks ago. I guess the latter suggestion you mentioned would be the best for my situation, not the quickest, but the best for us. I feel like I want to try some sort of probiotic in their food before trying to see who has diarrhea, and then seeing if it persists.
As far as cleaning the dishes daily, is there a quick disinfectant I could use instead of hot water and soap? Like some sort of wipe? I could easily clean the food bowls daily. Especially with the new scheduled food times, the bowls will be empty or close to so it would be an easy clean. The water is the hard part. I only have one ceramic bowl that I use, then the two fountains, and then a self dispensing one with the tank on the back. Oh. And two plastic ones upstairs. I know plastic is awful and has a lot of bacteria, I guess I need to buy more ceramic ones. If I kept their normal dishes, would there be a need to clean the tanks or just the actual bowl part? I feel like it would be a waste of water dumping probably two gallons of water each day if it isn't necessary.

Oh, and how would I know the difference between Calici and Herpes?

Calici is like our flu. There are several strains of Calici. One produces high fever and limb pain (limping kitten syndrome) and doesn't always have the URI symptoms. There is a "standard" strain that produces the ulcers, sneezing/nasal discharge, eye discharge and then there is a virulent stain (which is what they suspect my Tyson had) that can lead to serious complications or death. The good thing about Calici is once they are over an infection, that's it. Now, a cat can be reinfected with another strain, but that doesn't happen frequently.

Feline Herpes is like a cold. It's characterized by eye discharge, nasal discharge and/or sneezing. Symptoms and severity really vary from cat to cat. Herpes is a chronic. Once a cat gets it, they have it for life. For some cats, the virus goes dormant and they rarely, if ever, have another flare up. For other cats that have constant/chronic flare ups.