Help with territorial cat

crazy4beags

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Okay, so I got this new cat about ten months ago when I moved back to Las Vegas from Cedar City, UT. A rather young male cat. I have no knowledge on his background except that he was found outside when it was snowing. I had fostered cats before and thought it was fine to just let him out of my room. Needless to say I was wrong. I have two other cats and he attacked both of them. He is still living in my bedroom. I have just started doing Jackson Galaxy's method. When is it okay to move on to the next step? I'm currently doing the very first step, which is the one with the door. Would it be when all cats appear relaxed? I have to start the clock again as he chased her outside and over the fence this morning. Honey, the one he likes going after the most, does normally stay outside. Could this be why he's going after her because of all the strange smells? He doesn't often go after my oldest, Patchy, at all anymore really (still doing the training process with her though because you never know). Anyway, how could I transition Honey to being an indoor only cat?

This issue is keeping me from moving out and I'd like all cats to get along in a year or less (if at all possible). Thank you for any advice!
 

calicosrspecial

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I would take the formal introduction process slowly. http://www.thecatsite.com/a/the-ultimate-yet-simplified-guide-to-introducing-cats

You really want to try to associate the other cats with good things like food. So during the first part of the process you want to feed on each side of the door and slowly move the food closer. I would not have the cats even see each other at this point. You can do the scent swapping by getting an old shirt and get the scent of the other cats on it and put it by where the other cat(s) play, eat, sleep, hang out, feel secure. Then at some point you want to let them see each other while they eat (again associating the other cat with good things like food). Use a baby gate or anything that they can't to each other. If there is some aggression distract with food or play. Then at some point you want them to meet in person.

But before they meet in person work on building all the cats confidence. We build confidence by playing with them and then after play feed. Give them places to go high like cat trees and cat shelving. And give them love as much as possible if they allow it and try to get them to purr. A confident cat is less likely to be attacked.

Then it will be time to let them meet. Sometimes it take a few weeks sometimes many months. It just depends.

I am happy to help you through the process. But always try to make every step as positive as possible and try to associate the other cats with good things. If a cat is confident and feels safe and secure they are more likely to get along with others.

All my indoor cats are former ferals (lived on the streets with no human interaction). They came in and never went out again. They were fine. Giving them warm and comfy places to sleep and hang out is necessary. Places to look out and see the birds etc using cat trees (that are stable and not able to be tipped over)  or window perches. Give them great food and great play. Build their confidence. And give them love. If they feel loved and safe and secure they will be fine being inside based on my experience.

It is absolutely possible for them to get along but the process is really important. If the human is committed it works most of the time.

Happy to help and answer any questions you may have. Thanks for saving another cat and caring so much for them. 
 
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crazy4beags

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That's what I've been trying to do. I live with my parents, so I can't get super fancy with making it a super cat friendly home. Last time I put Honey (the outdoor kitty) inside with no outside time at all she got so stressed that she constantly developed UTIs and crystals. That's why I was asking about transitioning er to an indoor cat. On the other hand, I know I'm not supposed to let the three cats even see each other. Sometimes he gets out though (he gets bored REALLY easily... He's too smart of a cat. I do my best to keep him entertained with toy rotation and food puzzles). I'll try the scent swapping with some old towels and will continue on this path.
 

calicosrspecial

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How did Honey react when she was put inside. For example, did she not want to play? Was she hiding at all? Did she have the ability to look out of the window (from a cat tree or window perch)? Was she playing or hanging out with Patchy or was she interacting differently with Patchy (avoiding)?

I assume Honey was not drinking (and maybe eating) like she normally did when she was kept inside totally?

It is really important to keep the new cat separated and to build his confidence with play, food and love. Try to be as calm and confident with him as possible and let him know he is loved and wanted. And if you decide on having Honey inside I would really step up the confidence building with Honey and if possible let her be able to look outside. Then if you sense her stress is still high and play etc is not working then I would suggest putting up another thread asking how to transition an inside/outside cat to a totally inside cat in order to get more responses from other people. 

Are Honey and Patchy close? I am wondering if they are not as close as I thought.

Definitely do the scent swapping and go through the introduction process. Then maybe a week from now think about letting the cats see each other and see how they react (and distract the new cat with play or food if he gets too focused on the existing cats). If the new cat is confident and Patchy and Honey are confident then they should be ok seeing each other with baby gates or a screen door separating them. It is great that the new cat is not attacking Patchy so things should work out.

They are all neutered and spayed, correct?

Hope this helps a little. Please ask anything.
 
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crazy4beags

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I had six cats at the time of having them be inside. There was loads of tension between all of them. A couple actually passed due to stress related problems. We had an enclosure for them, which still wasn't enough. All of the cats would pee everywhere. Patchy is Honey's mom. Patchy is probably about 15 years old Honey is 12. Until I got my new cat they would cuddle and groom each other all the time. One of my old cats that had to be PTS because he was really sick was really close to Honey. All cats are spayed and neutered. Not sure when my new boy was done, but patchy was spayed after Honey's litter 12 years ago. Honey was spayed as a kitten around, four months old.

I was thinking of having blood work done on my new boy to see if anything medical could be causing his problems because I have NEVER had a cat act this way toward my other cats. I do know his personality quite well. He's smart, almost too smart. He is also inquisitive and overly confident in himself. Honey is a little more nervous. Patchy is too sort of, but not as much as Honey is. I use Feliway, calming treats, and Jackson Galaxy's flower essences to aid in behavioral issues.
 

calicosrspecial

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So this time it could be a very different situation bringing Honey inside for good it sounds like. Would you agree?

They stopped cuddling and grooming each other when the new cat came in? Was the new cat totally separated from the beginning?

How long ago did Honey lose her other friend?

Great that they are all fixed.  

I don't get a sense that the new cat is going after Honey (and before Patchy) because of a medical issue. Cats typically go after other cats because they are fearful or because the other cat lacks confidence and acts like prey.

I would try to keep them separated and go through the introduction process like you are doing. I would really work on building the confidence of all but especially Honey. Play, then food. places to go high. Love. Be very calm and confident around her. Have as many comfy and warm places as possible for her/them. If any way she can look out. All this things should help her a lot. I know time is limited but as much as possible. Then do some scent swapping (to begin with getting Patchy and Honey's scent on old shirts and place near the new male). Then maybe in a week or two as Honey gets more confident then get the new male's scent on an old shirt and have it around where Honey hangs out/sleeps.

Anytime they can smell each other and be safe it is helpful. Any time they associate the other cat with good things (play, food, love) that is very helpful. The later when you start visual (but not yet physical) interaction they should associate the scent with good things and be more confident and the more likely they will get along. but it is a process and it does take time. And I will be happy to help you through it along the way,

I hope this helps and makes sense. Please feel free to ask anything.
 
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crazy4beags

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Yes, sort of. My parents still don't want cats locked up in the house because that means shutting the dog in a whatnot. Since I still live with them, they're going to do what they want to.

The new cat had not been separated at first. I never had a cat that went after others like he does.

I've been trying to get Honey more confident and it just isn't working. She will not eat at my door. At all. Not even her favorite treats. Of course the new cat got out of my room again and chased her. I've had to tell my parents to not even open my door and if they do to make sure Honey isn't around. I'm back at square one again. If no improvement has taken place in two months I need to seriously consider finding him a new home with no other cats. 
 

calicosrspecial

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I understand.

Some cats react differently depending on how confident they are and how confident the existing cats are. It is not uncommon what you are experiencing and that is why the formal introduction process is the best way to go. So glad you are doing it now.

Just keep trying to get her more confident. Play then feed. Height. And give her love (so long as you do not risk being hurt, scratched, etc). Makes sure she knows she is loved and wanted. And be very calm and confident and positive with her. I know it can be disappointing and discouraging but it really is important to be as confident and calm and positive as possible. Cats do take on our emotions.

Start a good distance away from your door for feeding. Also, do some scent swapping (get his scent on an old shirt and have it around when Honey is doing stuff she likes like eating, playing getting love etc).

Also, do some scent swapping with Honey's scent and place it in his room. We want to associate the other cat with good things (play, food, height and love) and being safe and feeling confident.

I can sense you are a bit down and maybe stressed etc but please try to stay as positive as possible. I know it is easier said than done but I truly believe it does help. I deal with ferals and see it all the time. A new person will be a bit skittish etc and the feral will be freaking out. If I am calm and confident then the cat feels more safe and secure and trusts a bit more. It is a bit tough to explain but it can really feed on itself in a positive way.

Hang in there. I think you know cats and know how to work with them and I can tell you love cats. So I think you can do this. I'll be here for you every step of the way so please feel free to ask anything.
 
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crazy4beags

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I've tried this whole week with scent swapping and getting Honey to eat by the towel. She wants nothing to do with it and will just leave. Petting her, playing with her even near the towel hasn't worked. New boy saw patchy today on his harness outside and started flipping out at the end of the leash trying to get to her. I love this cat, but no amount of training seems to be helping at all. It's not fair to him or my cats or my parents to have to deal with this. Nobody is helping with introductions and I'm by myself in this. I really just don't see it working out.
 

calicosrspecial

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How close is the towel to where Honey is eating? Do you think it is the scent or might the towel be scaring her a bit? Could you try a small piece of an old shirt with his scent on it and maybe hide it near you when giving love or a few feet away from where she eats?

When you go into his room are you getting his scent on you at all by sitting where he sits or touching him (not sure if you are able to and please do not force it as I don't want you to be hurt in any way). Does Honey stay away from you or does she act different towards you? 

When you say "hasn't worked" what exactly does that mean (when petting and playing by the towel)?

It is still way too early for the new boy to be seeing any of the other cats. Please try to keep them on the process and please try to take it slowly. During the process please try to work on building his confidence as well (play, food, height and love). Just as an example, the process can take a month and some people it has taken 6+ months. We just have to take it slowly. And we need to build his confidence and trust. A confident cat is less likely to go after another cat (especially if the other cat is confident).

I know you are stressed and frustrated. And I know you are trying your best and I so appreciate your efforts. But it is a process and it does take time. I can tell you have a great heart and you want what is best for everyone. If there is any way you can keep them separated and go through the process and just keep up the effort and try to stay as positive and cam and confident as possible we can see if there is progress in a week or two and try to build on that. I know it is hard. I have gone through it, Small steps. I have helped many people through it. There are ups and downs but I truly think you have what it takes to make it worth despite the hurdles. I'll support you through this and be here for you as long as you want me to. I will do my best for you.
 
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crazy4beags

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I had no clue patchy was going to come outside. He does need to come out of my room sometimes as he isn't getting the proper exercise mentally or physically. Again, they usually never see each other unless it's by accident or he darts out of my room. I do no purposefully have them see each other. Honey and patchy only react to the other cat. They don't act differently towards me or anything. Honey will not go near the towel at all. Not even a shirt with his scent on it unless it is on me. At that point she doesn't pay attention. The towel can be several feet away and she will still not eat her food. She also just doesn't like playing that much from what I noticed. I even got them more toys. I play with the boy before each meal time and brush all of them with the same brush in places they feel comfortable. Still no improvement at all. Neither of the girls like the tree I got them either. I'll keep trying, but if after a month or two if nothing has changed then I need to find him a different home. Right now my other two cats are living in fear.
 
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crazy4beags

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What about maybe getting patchy and honey in my room and petting them and giving them treats in there while my boy is wandering around the house or in my parents room? Could that help as well?
 

calicosrspecial

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Please do not worry, I know you didn't mean to have them meet. I know you want what is best for them.

We can use you to associate his scent with good things to Honey. Let's try to have the towel or shirt with his scent on it by you when she is eating or getting love. Anything to associate his scent with good things like you and food and/or love.

Please keep trying to play but if she isn't into play then use food and love with the scent swapping. And anytime she is in the house and is comfortable and feeling secure it is a positive.

GREAT that you are playing with the boy before each meal. Very good. If we build his confidence and he gets comfortable and feels secure and doesn't chase and look to be aggressive to them then that could be the whole key. If the girls see he will not attack them then they'l get more comfortable. I always like to work on both sides of the situation though. But if we can't get him to feel confident and secure it could really help in this. Can he look outside when he is your room? Where does he spend his time? Up high or under the bed or under things or on the ground? Please keep giving him love and giving him confidence and security. 

And great that you are brushing them with the same brush in places they feel comfortable. Again a great way to do scent swapping.

Try to use treats to get them up on the tree if they don't go up there in a couple of days. I would like them to go high. Height builds confidence.

Is Patchy living in fear as well? Is she hiding or acting differently in the house? How are their tails when they are walking around? Are they walking around like "I own this place" or are they kind of low and moving cautiously? 

Your idea in your last post (having Honey and Patchy come into your room and giving them love, feeding, etc.) is called site swapping. It is very helpful. Something we typically do a bit later in the process. I would like Honey and Patchy to feel confident about the rest of the house first. Have them own the rest of the house then build upon that with some site swapping. I would really like them to get more confident before doing some site swapping. 

How much time did the girls spend in your room on a daily basis before the boy came? Did Honey spend more time in there than Patchy?

Cats are pretty resilient. I had a cat that had Giardia. A nasty health issue. I had to have her contained in a room until we cleared it which took 2 months. She was never allowed out of that room due to the other cats, we had to have it contained. She is now a healthy, happy and normal cat. They bounce back from things like that. I bring this up because I do think it is best if he stays in your room until the other cats are more stable. I fear if they see each other prematurely it can set us back. I know it is hard and at times heart breaking but I do believe it is for the best for all involved.

I totally understand the timeline and so appreciate it how much love you have for these cats and your willingness to do what it takes. We should know in a month or so if it will work. I'll be here every step of the way and will always be honest with you and support you in this. I know it is hard but you really are doing a very good job. 
 
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crazy4beags

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Thank you so much for offering encouragement. Patchy doesn't really act that differently unless she sees him. She just stays on the counter. The boy loves looking out my window, sleeping on my bed, on my desk chair, and on his little cat condo. I'm actually purchasing some more things this weekend. Getting two cat scratchers that are really tall. As well as I'm going to get a rather large cat tree eventually. I also want to get two or three more little ones. I'm going to talk to my parents about keeping all the cats inside again once these things are in place. Honey used to sleep on my bed with me, same with Patchy.
 
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crazy4beags

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Oh, I also fed honey outside my door again this morning. She didn't hiss at it this time. She also walks around more cautiously. Patchy too, but thought that was because of the dog. Patchy doesn't do it as often as Honey though.
 

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You are welcome. Great that Patchy is not acting that differently except for when she sees him which is very normal.

Great that the boy is acting like he owns that territory by going all over etc. That is a good step towards him being confident and eventually accepting of sharing the territory.

Also, very good that you are getting additional items. Then when the time is right we can use those items with their scents on them to expand the territory to help them feel more comfortable and confident to do some scent swapping and to expand their territory.

I had a feeling that the girls at one time owned your bedroom (sleeping with you etc). When we take territory away then we can have some issues and adjustments. 

GREAT that Honey ate outside of the door and didn't hiss. Fantastic!! Getting her to feel secure while she is doing good things (like eating) and getting his scent is a big step to our goal. 

It is very normal for the girls to be walking around cautiously because they are afraid the boy might pop out at them. As they realize they can walk around and be safe they will have more confidence. Combine that with associating the scents with good things and we are on the way.

It does seem to me that Patchy is a bit more confident than Honey.

Do you have any gates ready for when we get to the sight part of the introductions? I use a folding metal gate that is about 3 feet high and then I use a baby gate above that so the more aggressive cat can't get to the other cats.
 
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crazy4beags

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I do not have any gates. I did as my dad if I could install a temporary screen door on my bedroom door for when they are ready and he said that was fine. I figure it's sturdier than a gate and creates a full barrier. He likes to jump over barriers when I tried getting him used to eating with my door open and get more of his scent to spread about the house.
 

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Your dad is a good man to allow that. So glad he is being helpful. We can definitely work with the screen door when the time comes.
 
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crazy4beags

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They know I want to eventually move out and they say "You're taking the cats." I don't have a problem with that. Plus they don't want doors shut all the time and they don't want to have to worry about him maybe getting out to attack one of the cats. Gabriel doesn't get aggressive toward the towel nor is he aggressive towards me I would say more aggravated toward the smell of the towel. He knew I was there and was occasionally walking away from the towel and was rubbing against me and purring. 
 

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Would you say your parents are stressed? Cats can take on our (humans) emotions so when there is stress around they can take it on and act more skittish, aggressive etc. It is easier said then done but it is really important for all humans in the house to be as calm and confident and positive as possible. And an amazing thing happens, a positive feedback loop starts happening where the cats start acting calmer and the humans get less stressed then the humans are even calmer and the cats get even more calm. 

Great that Gabriel is not aggressive to the towel or to you. He was coming back to you to get his scent on you to say "you are mine". That is a nice positive as well as his purring. We can definitely use you to get the scents to the others and help them accept the other scent.

Please keep trying to play with Honey and Gabriel (separately) and then feeding. Getting them to go high and give love if possible without putting yourself in harms way. Also please keep the scent swapping going and associating the other scent with good things whether it is you, play, or food.

Hang in there, I know there is probably a lot of stress but I can see you are doing your best and I think you are doing a great job.
 
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