want to feed more raw, not sure of best way to go

As I've fed my cats some raw here & there, I would like to incorporate it more into their regular feeding. I've researched so much, my mind is gonna blow! I can't deal with mixing & bone ratios & phosphorus content & everything else you're supposed to do, so I'm looking at ready made meals. I'm really trying to be diligent & do my homework but my brain just can't handle all the specifics.

In my learning, these are what I've found so far

Feline's Pride, I've noticed that the liver is like #2 on all their products, I thought too much liver was a bad thing. ???

Rad Cat - my kitties love this stuff

Small batch blends

Halshan whole grinds

Primal Raw grind

So are these ok to feed everyday, twice-three times a day? I don't want to throw something out of whack, I think that's why I've been predominantly feeding out of a can.

There are others on the list but because a lot of companies use fruits & veggies, the carbs are just way too high for me to feel comfortable feeding them. So about 3 years ago when I was learning about the whole food thing, I read on catinfo that a whole carcass should be used because that's what a cat would eat in the wild. Now I guess that's changed & we shouldn't be feeding them whole carcasses. Do this, don't do this, do that, don't do that. confusing.

I do cut up chunks on occasion of whatever it is I'm eating myself, for instance today I had some top sirloin & cut about 3 small pieces for each cat, they ate them up fast! I have fed chicken breasts, turkey necks, chicken necks, chicken wings but basically only one of my kitties will eat whatever I put down, I usually end up throwing it all away. no dog anymore so I get to feed the trashcan.

I guess Nature's Variety makes a low carb raw food, my cats eat it sometimes, I actually have a bag in the freezer.

Maybe another option is to try dehydrated raw??? I give them as treats but have never moistened it for a meal.

Avoid Feline's Pride. The company has gone downhill over the past year or so and is awful to deal with. See these threads:

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/291787/experience-with-felines-pride

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/324740/my-pets-pride-felines-pride-operating-without-a-license

msserena said:

 
Maybe another option is to try dehydrated raw??? I give them as treats but have never moistened it for a meal.

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Dehydrated raw is powder which is messy to feed if you don't rehydrate it in water and turn it into somewhat of a pate consistency or soup. I think you mean freeze dried raw Most freeze dried raw foods are complete diets and are fine to feed. Ideally they should be rehdyrated before being fed as a meal (as an occasional treat is is ok to feed dry).

msserena said:

 
Feline's Pride, I've noticed that the liver is like #2 on all their products, I thought too much liver was a bad thing. ???

Rad Cat - my kitties love this stuff

Small batch blends

Halshan whole grinds

Primal Raw grind

So are these ok to feed everyday, twice-three times a day? I don't want to throw something out of whack, I think that's why I've been predominantly feeding out of a can.

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Be careful with the grinds. These are typically supplement only, not complete meals. I know the Primal grinds are supplement only. Unless you are feeding the grinds as less than 10% of the diet, you will need to supplement them. A pre-mix such as EZComplete or Alnutrin would be the easiest way to provide supplementation.

Rad Cat is a complete diet so no worries there.

hmmm thanks for the info. Yes you're correct, I meant freeze dried raw, duh all freeze dried food is dehydrated!

I've tried S&C & Primal, mixed with water, cats wouldn't eat it. They'll eat NV instinct, but I only give a little at a time & always dry, more like a treat. I'm concerned about carb content so I try to stay away from fruits & veggies.

I feed the NV frozen raw to  my cats. The carb content is around 3%. I think it's on the Catinfo.org chart. The freeze dried raw should have a similar carb content. IMO, don't go nuts with very low or no carbs. Stick with under 10% carbs if you can.

I think Rad Cat doesn't have fruits and veggies so if you're trying to avoid those, Rad Cat would be best to feed. But it can be pricey for a container. You could feed both Rad Cat and a a grind with premix to help with cost.

Maybe some more raw feeders can chime in with suggestions and tips.

LTS3 said:

 You could feed both Rad Cat and a a grind with premix to help with cost.

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this is what I'm confused about, people that know about this stuff know what they're saying, what's a grind with premix? I thought the grinds were bad?

I got back onto the naturalcatcareblog & checked out Primal, the frozen food, after the first 3 ingredients, everything is fruit, veggies & supplements. When I see an ingredient list like this, my first instinct is to stay away from it. Some foods I found have almonds or pecans in it! Cats don't eat nuts people......

Even their freeze dried food is the same. I can't believe they don't have a chicken only food, I don't feed seafood every day.

so now I'm looking over Small Batch, so from what I understand, this is not good to feed everyday:   whole rabbits including bones, rabbit livers, rabbit hearts, rabbit kidneys, rabbit lungs.

You need to mix supplements with it?

msserena said:

 
this is what I'm confused about, people that know about this stuff know what they're saying, what's a grind with premix? I thought the grinds were bad?

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A grind is a chub / roll of meat, like the Primal ones you are looking at. The grinds are fine as long as you supplement it with a premix (EZComplete, Alnutrin, TC Feline, etc)  or use it as part of a recipe. On its own, a grind is not a complete diet. Most grinds don't contain fruits and veggies.

msserena said:

 
so now I'm looking over Small Batch, so from what I understand, this is not good to feed everyday:   whole rabbits including bones, rabbit livers, rabbit hearts, rabbit kidneys, rabbit lungs.

You need to mix supplements with it?

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Is this the Small Batch raw food? http://smallbatchpets.com/frozen-raw/ There is a complete diet for cats. The blends do need to be supplemlented:

What’s the difference between sliders, patties & blends?

Sliders are 1oz portions of our batches, these are available for dogs and cats. patties are 8oz portions of our batches and are only available for dogs. blends are 2lb. chubs and come in a variety of protein choices with or without veggies. These can be used for both dogs and cats but we do suggest that you add your own supplements and ingredients adequate for your pet.

http://smallbatchpets.com/support/

this is the exact reason why I stopped dealing with raw years ago, I don't understand why it's so difficult. Cats eat a mouse or a bird in the wild, they aren't getting vitamins, fruit & veggies, they're eating meat with bones & internal organs. Why aren't the grinds ok to feed then without supplementation? It's just not logical to me!

ok so now I've been reading that bone grinds aren't that great because of the phosphorus, are boneless mixes better? should I not be looking at bone in food?

Some grinds are just ground boneless meat which doesn't contain the necessary vitamins and minerals a cat or dog needs. Other grinds are ground meat with bone and organs so they do have some vitamins and minerals but not enough for a cat or dog. Grinding can cause some loss in nutrients so that's why supplementation is needed.

To keep things easy, I suggest going with boneless meats.

yeah I think I'm done for now, I just read from 2 other places to feed cats bones. You read this, you do it, you read that, you do it, it's just back & forth, back & forth. I'm over it.

Anyway thanks for your input, cheers!

msserena said:

 
this is the exact reason why I stopped dealing with raw years ago, I don't understand why it's so difficult. Cats eat a mouse or a bird in the wild, they aren't getting vitamins, fruit & veggies, they're eating meat with bones & internal organs. Why aren't the grinds ok to feed then without supplementation? It's just not logical to me!

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The reason we supplement grinds is because during the process of the grinding and freezing some nutrients are destroyed/damaged. In addition to that the majority of the grinds only contain parts of the animal and few or no organs, not whole carcasses. Thus many nutrients will be lacking. I'm pretty sure if you get ground whole carcass mouse from Hair Today you won't need to supplement it.

 I got back onto the naturalcatcareblog & checked out Primal, the frozen food, after the first 3 ingredients, everything is fruit, veggies & supplements. When I see an ingredient list like this, my first instinct is to stay away from it. Some foods I found have almonds or pecans in it! Cats don't eat nuts people......

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Reasoning behind adding fruits/veggies into some grinds as well as some raw home made recipes is that when a cat consumes a mouse, for instance, it would also consume the stomach and its contents which are partially digested grains/fruits/seeds eaten by that mouse. 

 ok so now I've been reading that bone grinds aren't that great because of the phosphorus, are boneless mixes better? should I not be looking at bone in food?

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General guideline for bone % in the diet is 5-10%, If you are buying a grind, ask the manufacturer about the bone content or Ca level in the complete diet you choose (recommended is from 1:1 to 1.3:1). It's easier to control Ca ratio using just meat + pre-made supplement. Pretty much takes out any guess work out of making kitty food for me.

It is a bit of a daunting task to figure everything out for the first time, but once you are done with the research and meal planning for the cats and do that first batch - you are golden. 

so I guess if I'm feeding a whole carcass, I don't have to worry about ratios & supplements. You can buy that stuff, I don't know why people don't. everyone is mixing this & that, to me it's a lot easier to just buy the whole animal, done deal.

Looks like you can get chicken, rabbit, quail, mouse & guinea pig. All the things a cat would normally eat.

https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/ground_chickenbonesorgans_1_lb_fine_ground

https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/whole_carcass_ground_rabbit_fur_and_all_1_lb_fine_ground

https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/whole_carcass_ground_quail_1_lb_fine_ground

https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/whole_carcass_ground_mouse_1_lb__fine_ground

https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/whole_carcass_ground_cavies_1_lb_fine_ground

msserena said:

 
so I guess if I'm feeding a whole carcass, I don't have to worry about ratios & supplements. You can buy that stuff, I don't know why people don't. everyone is mixing this & that, to me it's a lot easier to just buy the whole animal, done deal.

Looks like you can get chicken, rabbit, quail, mouse & guinea pig. All the things a cat would normally eat.

https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/ground_chickenbonesorgans_1_lb_fine_ground

https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/whole_carcass_ground_rabbit_fur_and_all_1_lb_fine_ground

https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/whole_carcass_ground_quail_1_lb_fine_ground

https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/whole_carcass_ground_mouse_1_lb__fine_ground

https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/whole_carcass_ground_cavies_1_lb_fine_ground

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From the ones you listed here chicken will not work for one simple reason, whole chicken is much more bony than a mouse, and it's not really whole carcass there either, just some parts, some organs and a whole lot of bone. (look at the ratio in the description)

And like I said before, there's the issue of some nutrients being damaged due to grinding and freezing. 

Why adding premixed supplement like EZ Complete to just plain meat seems like a complicated task to you? That is the easiest way to do it. 

If you are completely opposed to any calculations, mixing and ratios, and what not, go with the whole prey approach. Buy whole frozen mice, chicks, quails, cavies from HT and teach your cat to eat them.

I have in my freezer baby quail & 2 different baby chickens. All my cats used to eat the quail, I would give it to them like once a week, now, only 2 eat them. Haven't opened the chickens yet. I have bought baby rabbit, pinky mice, ground venison & ground rabbit before, not 1 cat ate it, I ended up feeding them all to my dog.

I have researched supplements, there are like 4 or 5 that I compared ingredients, how am I to know which one is best? This is the point I'm trying to make, I highly doubt I am the only one out there that feels this way, it is more complicated then just feeding raw meat to your cat. I think a lot of people just feed raw meat to their cat without knowing that doing do throws their body out of whack. Your average ordinary person doesn't research nutrition that much, just look at what people feed other people.

I think I will try the whole carcass grinds, not the chicken one & see if my cats will eat any of it.

msserena said:

 
I have in my freezer baby quail & 2 different baby chickens. All my cats used to eat the quail, I would give it to them like once a week, now, only 2 eat them. Haven't opened the chickens yet. I have bought baby rabbit, pinky mice, ground venison & ground rabbit before, not 1 cat ate it, I ended up feeding them all to my dog.

I have researched supplements, there are like 4 or 5 that I compared ingredients, how am I to know which one is best? This is the point I'm trying to make, I highly doubt I am the only one out there that feels this way, it is more complicated then just feeding raw meat to your cat. I think a lot of people just feed raw meat to their cat without knowing that doing do throws their body out of whack. Your average ordinary person doesn't research nutrition that much, just look at what people feed other people.

I think I will try the whole carcass grinds, not the chicken one & see if my cats will eat any of it.

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My cats overwhelming prefer Rad Cat over anything else I make. I've tried a lot of the HT grinds including meat/bones/organs and whole animal. I've tried boneless with alnutrin, EZ, and BITR. In the end, I feed a lot of RC, with boneless beef and boneless venison from HT with EZ. They refuse all poultry with EZ, and they hate basically any of the bone in poultry grinds, and they liked rabbit for a short time and now they barely touch it. I've tried to get them to eat more homemade raw, but I end up wasting time and money trying to force them. If your cats like RC, keep feeding it. I would def try small batch too, but you need to supplement. I think i mentioned before but you might want to try Savage Cat, which is local to SD as well. 

yeah I did look up the savage cat, the nearest store is like 40 min away. Next time I'm in that part of town, cause the whole foods store is there, I'll check it out & get me a box of chicken & rabbit.

If your cats like RD, why not feed them the beef & vension varieties? Then you wouldn't have to add your own.

I really think I'm gonna order the whole ground mice, guinea pig, quail & rabbit from HT. Too bad they don't have trial sizes or sample sizes available.

msserena said:

 
yeah I did look up the savage cat, the nearest store is like 40 min away. Next time I'm in that part of town, cause the whole foods store is there, I'll check it out & get me a box of chicken & rabbit.

If your cats like RD, why not feed them the beef & vension varieties? Then you wouldn't have to add your own.

I really think I'm gonna order the whole ground mice, guinea pig, quail & rabbit from HT. Too bad they don't have trial sizes or sample sizes available.

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Well I have 10 cats total, and 7 are just over a year old and still eat a lot, so I'm trying not to go broke buying RC    They can eat an entire 24oz container in one day. I do buy the RC venison, which they love. But buying from HT just helps me supplement enough that i can mix RC and homemade and offset the cost a little bit. 

so what's wrong or what would happen if a cat ate          https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/ground_chickenbonesorgans_1_lb_fine_ground       without supplementation? I thought the bones offset the meat part. I always thought it was good to feed bones, practically all the natural websites say to do it. Like in RC, they use eggshell to offset the meat portion. Why not use natural bone?

It would probably be cheaper to buy boneless meat from the grocery store & ask the meat guy to grind it for you, so I guess the EZ Complete would be added to that.

Small Batch doesn't sell boneless meats, I think EZ Complete is only for boneless meats.