7 months in--update on introducing two cats

Ok, I'm sure you have all seen my struggles over the past 7 months (well, almost 7, will be 7 on 9/5) with trying to introduce Shortstack (former feral, about 2 yrs old) into my household with Wurp, my 12 year old cranky butt.  This is long--please bear with me--I need your opinions at the end of this!!!

They spent the first month completely separated (allowing for Shortstack's hormones to drop, etc. after being neutered because Wurp went into the "I'm gonna kill you" mode once he smelled him in the house), then we moved on to site swapping and timesharing since mid-March, with full view of each other between 3 stacked baby gates.  Our first few attempts of letting them see each other face to face progressed as such:  (with a week or two break between attempts) full-on brawls the first couple of times, then progressing on to Wurp stalking and sneak-attacking him full on with kicking, screaming, yowling, to slapping-yowling, to finally just what I called "Slap-Fests" with no fur flying, just smacking each other around with no claws.

These were all very, VERY short supervised times, less than 30 minutes apiece, sometimes less than 5 minutes, depending on Wurp's desire to chase and attack Shortstack, and Shortstack's tendency to run and become prey in Wurp's eyes.  It was like the playground bully--the more he scared Shortstack, the more he TRIED to scare and intimidate Shortstack.  And Shortstack outweighs him.  We are talking big boys, Wurp is 13-14 pounds, Shortstack is 17-18 pounds. 

The last attempt, maybe 2 weekends ago? a change in the relationship dynamics occurred.  Instead of running like his butt was on fire with Wurp in pursuit, Shortstack decided to hold his ground.  The both sat in "groundhog" positions on their butts and had what I refer to as the Great Slap-Fest of 2016.  They both slap-slappity-slapped each other for about a full minute with claws in, not out.  Shortstack did not back down, there was no yowling, just slapping the crap out of each other's heads while sitting on their behinds with their tails straight out behind them on the floor.  I swear I couldn't even intervene, I just stood there with my jaw dropped, because honestly it was pretty darn entertainingly funny due to them looking like groundhogs.  I can't help it.  Neither was hurting the other, it was (forgive my un-politically-correctness here) like watching two little girls on a playground fighting over a swing.  It ended when Wurp, the quintessential bully, had enough and just stopped---both stopped, looked at each other, then Wurp huffed really loud and walked off towards the bedroom and never looked back.  Shortstack appeared very pleased with himself and walked into the kitchen to get a snack.  I have NEVER seen an interaction like that before!!

Saturday, we decided it was time to try again.  We didn't last weekend because honestly we were just running fanatically, hubby had emergencies at his job.  Saturday we let them both loose in the house at the same time.  They were both absolutely calm, collected, and cool to each other.  Both ate treats within 6 inches of each other's heads.  I cooked dinner Saturday evening with both of them lying in the kitchen floor within two feet of each other with me moving around them, no hostility shown, just a cool attitude with each other.  Wurp still moved cautiously if he had to walk past him, he eyeballed him all the way past, but no tail swishing, no stare-downs.  Wurp finally--and this is a weird thing--went into Stack's bedroom, climbed his cat tree, and went sound asleep in Stack's favorite cubbyhole in the tree!!!  Stack spent the rest of the evening, until we went to bed, on the couch with us.  Wurp walked through several times to the kitchen, just looked over to see where he was, and went about his business.

We did the same thing again yesterday.  Same scenario, but yesterday Stack went and got on our bed where Wurp always sleeps!  What is up with this?  Are they going "this is mine, not yours"?  Nah-nah-na NA-NA I can do it too?  What the heck?  When in the same room together, they keep one eye on each other at all times, but no threatening behavior was displayed.

Is this progress?  Ugh, after all the backslides we've had, I am just skeptical.  What do you guys/gals think was a turning point?  Stack holding his ground? 

We really think that Stack has taken this long to get comfortable living in the house and becoming more used to household noises, etc., although last night he did get scared by a loud car on the tv.  He puffed out and started that low mow-mow-mowww growly noise, but hubby petted him and he calmed down.

Thoughts please?  What's my next step?  Just keep letting them have time together, just more regularly??

Here's a pic to show you how they were together.  Wurp had his eyes half closed and just sat there purring, kinda dozing (or faking it), and Stack was focused on what I was doing with dinner.

I would call that great progress. Similar to my only intoduction experience. When Boney Girl started standing up to Xena, the aggressive bullying stopped. Xena learned measured tolerance. Like a kid who just learned they are not allowed to strike their sibling, she still came up with more passive methods of sticking it to Boney. There remained competition after the truce. Think this competition was good as far as bringing additional stimuli to their lives. They never did become close friends, but Boney enjoyed the hope of acceptance and maybe her turn on top, and Xena got to grumble about the new girl.

Thanks!  I would say we are probably at the "truce" stage....but they are still doing the "you'd better not push it" with each other too!  I'm glad to hear someone else has had the experience with a bully cat.  Wurp is truly a bully, always has been, so his bullying/attacking behavior didn't surprise me. 

In the past he cohabitated with another neutered male for some time, but he was younger, and the other male was a bit feisty and wouldn't take anything off him from the beginning, and they were best buds for quite some time.  They would sleep next to each other, share a perch and look out the window together, that sort of thing.Then the other cat "went away to college" with the young human, and Wurp was left alone.  He lived with Fuzz, hubby's cat, for a few years, but he ignored her completely with no aggression at all towards her--but she was elderly and very senile when he met her too.  It's like she knew she had a disability, so he left her alone.  If she bothered him, he would just go up his cat tree.  He also has never, ever shown aggression to a female cat that has visited, but I've since learned that the females are usually dominant and are the heads of the households--I didn't know that.

If I can just get them to coexist I will be extremely happy.  But sometimes I swear Wurp, as cranky as he is, really wants to be friends but won't admit it.  When Stack is in "his" room, Wurp goes to the baby gates and howls until he comes over to see him, then he seems satisfied.  They will both lie outside the baby gates with the other on the other side together for hours.  But this is the very first time they have spent this long together without one of them staring each other down, Wurp posturing and stalking him, etc.  And it lasted a long time!

Stack REALLY wants to be friends, he loves the company of other cats and tries so hard to be his friend, he chirps and purrs at him all the time, but Wurp is deaf and can't interpret his intent.  I guess he just thinks Stack is sitting there staring at him since he can't hear him. 

We recently adopted our Luna in March. 2 months later, we brought home Apollo at 8 weeks old. Luna was MAD. I'm talking wouldn't touch our couch, bed, us, we almost took Apollo back. We had to go out of town a few times and left both cats out alone and when we returned the last time, they were cleaning each other! Now they cuddle and clean constantly, they're basically mom and daughter. I noticed they always get along better when we leave for a few days and no one gets attention from a human, possibly causing jealousy. It's worth a shot honestly!

We are truly hesitant to leave them together unsupervised, given Wurp's history. He is 12, and spent about 7-8 of his years outside as a very territorial cat. He has actually killed intruders when he was younger. Shortstack, being 2 and a former complete feral, would revert back to his shy, withdrawn state if an incident occurred. He's reverted when severely frightened on us a couple of times, once not letting us touch him for a day. If they were both younger, and Wurp not so territorial, I might try it. But now I'm afraid one incident might set us back months [emoji]128542[/emoji]

More pics, this is from last night.  They ate treats inches from each other, then lounged in the den for a bit close to each other....Wurp gave Stack the butt view however!

Trust me, I was the same way. We lost my 16 year old kitty in March so my boyfriend got me Apollo. I was in tears the first night because Luna was so mean and I thought I was going to lose another cat. When we left the first weekend, I freaked out, until we came home. They're so close now. Apollo went on a trip without Luna a few weeks ago and they both had really bad separation anxiety! I know it's scary, but try it. Maybe leave them alone while you're at work? we also used cat nip spray to keep them calmer when there were supervised visits! You just have to keep trying!

Thanks! I am just soooo nervous. It's like Wurp is just at the "trying to deal with it" stage. He glares with the look...you know the look...and it worries me to try a long time. We are trying 5-6 hours an evening right now, then Saturday the whole day to see what happens, when we will be here!

I think things are going great at this point @hbunny, I doubt you would ever have believed Wurp and Shortstack would reach this stage a few months back.   Seeing them lay down within feet of each other (even if they are careful to keep a close eye), and what's more chow down on snacks almost nose to nose is fantastic.

I wonder how much of Wurp's checking out and calling on Stack when he's off in his own room is down to Wurp wanting to check out his young intruder is indeed where he thinks he is or hiding out and perhaps going to catch him unawares?   Either way, it is good that he is happy to go call out for him, see he's in his room and then relax.  

Well done!    

A+

Well tonight apparently they had a "difference of opinions". I can almost guess what happened, but anyway, no one got injured. Not badly.

I was making dinner and suddenly realized I didn't see the boys in the den, they were previously lying on the loveseat, one on each end. I went through every room in the house, didn't see them, then I heard Wurp going "Waowww? Waooowww?" with that "where are you?" meow thing he does, like when he has lost us (easy because he's deaf). He does this sometimes if he is busy and we go off to bed at night, one of us will get up and wave him to come on, come to bed, and he's fine. I tracked his crazy yelling and found him sitting on the table next to the bed, just sitting there, purring when he saw me come into the bedroom. Well, Shortstack was under the foot of the bed and wouldn't come out. I was like "ok, let them do whatever, maybe they are exploring together" and went back to the kitchen. Wurp followed me, then shortly here comes Shortstack.

Shortstack had something on one of his ears. When I went to see, it was a Wurp toenail sheath STUCK into his ear tip. I petted him and pulled it out and it bled a tiny bit, but not much. I picked him up and loved on him, put him down again, and they both just acted like nothing had ever happened. I'm like "WTH???"

The best I can figure is that Stack, who wants desperately to get close to Wurp and touch him and head butt him, probably got too close and Wurp popped him one. I just let it go, I hope I did the right thing by not acting like anything was going on and staying calm. They just continued on acting normal--like I wasn't supposed to know anything went on!

Am I doing right now by letting them deal with their relationship? My line of thinking was that nobody was actually hurt bad, and that this may happen occasionally, is that how I should be viewing it?

We still separate them at bedtime and when we are gone.

That's how I view such things now. Sinbad and Bêlit occasionally have their little squabbles that have ended up with one or the other wearing a claw sheath. But they will go from these squabbles to immediate cuddling and mutual grooming, so now I only think about separating them when they are squabbling over who gets to cuddle me and it prevents me from getting any snuggles at all. 

Losna said:

 
That's how I view such things now. Sinbad and Bêlit occasionally have their little squabbles that have ended up with one or the other wearing a claw sheath. But they will go from these squabbles to immediate cuddling and mutual grooming, so now I only think about separating them when they are squabbling over who gets to cuddle me and it prevents me from getting any snuggles at all. 

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Do you just ignore their tiffs?  I'm thinking I'm at the point to where I need to let them settle their own differences.  Stack needs to learn boundaries (with us humans too!), but Wurp seems a little harsh in his methods!

hbunny said:

 
Do you just ignore their tiffs?  I'm thinking I'm at the point to where I need to let them settle their own differences.  Stack needs to learn boundaries (with us humans too!), but Wurp seems a little harsh in his methods!

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Yeah. It was really hard the first few times! But now I just let them slappity slap and bite each other, though I do keep half an eye to make sure it doesn't get too heated. Most of the time even though it looks like a fight, all they are doing is clawless slapping (I know this because they have squabbled in my lap  and I don't end up scratched). I was told they need to be allowed to settle their differences, and watching them I know they did/do. Cats fight just like people, and generally if I pull them apart or intervene it will leave both of them in a stressed out funk for hours. But if I just let them settle it themselves, they'll get over it immediately most of the time.

Even when it gets a tad too heated and one of them stabs the other, letting them settle it is generally the best way to go. I'd guess this is likely the case for you as well, as from the sound of it, you're not getting the screaming serious fights either.

I will add that I think you'd know if they need to be separated. When Sinbad and Tempest squabble, I need to separate them. Tempest is genuinely terrified of Sinbad, so their fights are rather desperate as she is frantically trying to escape him. My general observation at this point is that if I'm questioning whether I need to separate them - I don't. 

Unless of course it's interfering with my snuggles.   

I think Losna is giving some great advice here, and it comes from lengthy experience introducing her cats.  

I hope Shortstack is non the worse for his ear-bashing @hbunny  .

MServant said:

 
I think Losna is giving some great advice here, and it comes from lengthy experience introducing her cats.  

I hope Shortstack is non the worse for his ear-bashing @hbunny  .

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Yeah, it's what, 3 years now for Sinbad and Tempest?. I'm just glad that none of them really want to fight, so even the bad ones that I need to step in, I can just grab them barehanded.

@Losna   Thank you so VERY much.  It is so helpful to hear from someone else with cats that are akin to battling toddlers!  It's like having toddlers with knives!

@MServant  Honestly, Stack acts like nothing ever happened.  He acted like it didn't even bother him when I touched it later, but it scared me to death.  I was afraid he would go back to hiding nonstop from Wurp but he walked right past him and showed him his butt, so he wasn't too intimidated by Wurp's smack.

Thanks to both of you......yeah, there aren't (yet) any more screaming-yowley matches, it's just kind of like silent glares lately, and Wurp giving him the cold shoulder when they pass each other.  This was the first slap since they've been being allowed to visit more than 30 minutes together, and I think maybe Stack tried to get a little too close for Wurp's comfort.  I never heard any growling or yowling, and Wurp's a screamer.  I'm trying for 5-6 hours an evening together, just to let them get more of a comfort zone around each other and work out their "areas" and schedules of who is where and when.

They do very well though when it's food time!  Inches from each other's nose and both watch me instead of watching each other.  I thought that displayed a little comfort level with each other, maybe.

Shortstack was very similar as to how you describe Tempest.  He was absolutely terrified of Wurp for the longest, ran from him, hid and hissed under things just scared to death, but now he's just like "meh" and walks past him, even when Wurp is staring him down.  It's like he suddenly decided he wasn't so big and bad after all.  And Wurp seems to have a HUGE case of butt-hurt right now.  His ego has been popped because he can't make him run anymore. 

Last night for example....Wurp never has been one to sit with us and be all lovey-dovey.  Stack sat between me and hubby on the armrest console in the loveseat all night watching tv.  Wurp positioned himself under the breakfast area table and glared at him the entire time.  He finally huffed off to our bedroom and went to sleep on the bed.  I was thinking jealousy, but I mean really....Wurp never sat with us anyway even before Stack came inside to live, or when Stack is put in his room even.  I can't figure out Wurp's deal.  Unless I am interpreting it wrong, and he is just watching what he is doing and observing.  But wow he makes some mean faces!  It's the "if looks could kill".

Sinbad does the same thing. 

I'll try to pay attention to him, cuddle, pet, etc, and he'll just wander off. Then Bêlit jumps into my lap and starts purring, and Sinbad just sits and sadly stares. I always want to tell him, Silly boy, you had first dibs! You didn't want the cuddles, so stop being so upset that she's got them. 

Oh Losna, that's exactly the situation I am facing!  It's impossible, so I'm just doing the best I can.  I will admit I have always coddled Wurp and let him have his way so it's mostly my fault, he has been king of the castle...but he's got to learn to share.  It's just sad watching him be so stubborn and silly!  His best buddy for his whole life was a dog, a border collie mix who passed away 2 years ago at 23.  He was never like that with Max, and was even protective of him as he grew feeble and ill. 

I think Wurp was telling me a few minutes ago, while looking side-eyed over at Shortstack, that he's allergic to cats