Raw - so many questions (confused)

Hi,

Apologies in advance for the endless questions.  I've been reading about raw feeding for weeks now and am still confused. 

The good news is I have chest freezer and I'm all set up in a practical way to prepare/make meats for mr. cat.  I have also been feeding the odd meal a few times a week of raw (chicken/beef/lamb) in small chunks and he can't get enough it it.   I have some liver/chicken necks thawing in the fridge so I'll be able to give him a taste test when they're ready. 

 I'm ready to take it to the next stage but I'm a bit overwhelmed with all the options.

Considering he seems like enjoy munching on chunks of meat, and assuming he's reasonably receptive to crunching on bone (or I can work him up to it), I suppose it would be worth trying a frankenprey type diet?  I understand the basic concept (80/10/5/5), but was unsure how much variety was actually required.  At the moment, I haven't found anything beyond chicken/beef/lamb/pork.  How many different types of meat/organs are needed for a balanced diet?   There's a market near me that I think will have some other varieties, possibly duck or some game bird (this is all new and a bit disturbing to me as I don't eat meat).

The butcher near me has lamb brains/ chicken liver which I know are usable, but other things I have no idea with such as: chicken carcasses, chicken maryland, drumettes? and chicken giblets.  After looking up giblets it's a mix of internal organs from what I cant tell.  Seems like that could be hard to measure out. 

Is it possible to make your own supplement to add to chunks of meat?You can't get any decent ones here in Australia (or have them sent!).   I couldn't find any info on exactly how you would balance that out. From what I understand of the recipes requiring a grinder, the required supplements are added to account for the losses involved in the grinding process and also the lack of variety in meats?

In regards to that, after reading through the recommended sites I was overall confused about how you would adapt the recipes correctly.  For instance, with following this: http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/making-raw-cat-food-for-do-it-yourselfers Can you basically substitute any meat and bone as long as you maintain the ratio?  If you were to food unground bones for dental health alongside a ground diet, would remove some of the bone when making the ground food?

The only thing I can find with bone in it so far is the chicken necks, and I can probably find chicken wings.  Are there any 'bad' meats in terms of bone/organ/cuts that one should not use at all?  We have things like kangaroo here, but I'm not sure if its suitable.  In a frankenprey diet, do you also rotate the organ meats as well as the others?

I've also heard people mention that when buying unfrozen meats you should freeze them first before feeding.  Is this recommended?  My knowledge was that freezing only kept bacteria dormant rather than killed any already existing, but that it may kill parasites.  I'm not sure.   If so, any time frame for that?

Thanks for anyone who has made it through that; I'm not going to being switching immediately to an all raw diet so hopefully if I make some mistakes it'll still be fairly well rounded.

I'm grateful for any help on these many questions,

thanks!   

Wow, you've asked some great questions.  I'm hoping someone comes along who has vast experience and can answer them for you.  When I was feeding raw I fed mostly chicken, turkey and beef (mainly chuck roast which I cut into strips for them to gnaw on).  I also purchased grinds with the bones and organs included from a local farm.  I went the route of using a premade supplement so can't help you there.  Have you already browsed our raw thread?  http://www.thecatsite.com/t/264154/raw-feeding-resources

I, personally, don't know why you can't mix and match organs with other types of muscle meats.  IE, kangaroo meat with lamb kidney and pancreas, etc.

I don't feed raw but I have read a lot about it.

From what I can tell, there are no supplements here in Australia you can add to raw food. You can order one from the US called Balance It but it's pricey. You can however buy the supplements separately from iherb and have them shipped here (and they're reasonably priced). There is Vets All Natural but it has cereals in it.

Yes, you should also rotate organ meats.

Yes, if you feed raw meaty bones you should reduce the amount of meat in the ground food. Too much bone will cause constipation.

My local woolworths now sells bison so that might be an option and kangaroo (make sure you buy human grade) is a great option also. Sometimes you can buy quail and I think Coles sell duck but be sure to check for additives (like salt or seasoning I don't know if it's suitable). Coles also sell turkey breast but again I'm not sure if it's enhanced.

The other stuff I don't know but I had similar questions and in the end found it too overwhelming and haven't started yet. I hope what I have been able to tell you is helpful!

 

Thanks for replies, and answering what you can.  I guess I'll just have to keep reading and try and piece things together.

Tried a chicken neck last night.  It got licked and that's it.   I'll have to try other boned meat, but I suppose that might mean I'll have to use a grinder if he won't eat bone at all.   I read you can try smashing them with a hammer? 
 

I looked into feeding chunks with some kind of bone substitute in a prey model but it seemed incredibly complicated at first glance to get everything balanced.

I could never get any of my cats to eat chicken necks or wings, I have heard that wings are a bit safer though, necks can go down whole.

I don't know about smashing them with a hammer, I think I've read that too, in my mind though I'd be worried about splinters...

Yes, wings are petty popular.  And, yes, you can start by smashing them with a hammer, or even cast iron skillet  just to break them up a little bit.  .  Cats should never eat cooked bones, but raw bones are just fine.  When they eat them and shatter them with their jaws, it's similar to smashing them with a hammer, so don't worry about splinters  

I used to feed chunks with a bone supplement on top because I never felt comfortable with exactly how much was the right amount of bone.  I could measure out the supplement much easier.  You can buy supplements to  even include the organs if you like.  That's what I did because my guy didn't like liver.  But as i mentioned above, i was also able to buy grinds that included everything...organs and bone along with the  muscle meat.  Not sure if that is available down under. 

Maybe this thread will be helpful to you:  http://www.thecatsite.com/t/252759/raw-feeding-or-barf-in-australia-need-some-food-advice

Thanks for all the responses.

Well, I made a first batch today using chicken thigh/liver/heart + supplements etc.    I kept it pretty small, but still was completely flustered about half way through, ha.

I forget to wash the cuts of thigh, so ended doing that after I have chunked them up, which I think added a bit too much water.  By the time I added the egg/water and supplements,

it was all a bit soupy (I didn't use a grinder at all- everything in small chunks).

I'm gauging how much of it he'll eat in one sitting, but i he did leave a few pieces in some liquid, so my concern would be he wouldn't quite finish everything each time, and the balance 

could be a bit off.  Also, the taurine and b-complex remained a title gritty in the egg/water mix, I'm not sure if this in an issue.  He didn't seem put off by it.

So I'll probably try grinding some of what I've already made, or the entire next batch, and go from there.  

My line of thinking was that the chunks would be a good dental workout, but I don't know how effective that is.  He won't let me brush his teeth, and won't eat bones as of yet, so I'm not sure

what that leaves to try.  Does anyone feed regular ground meals and then as side dishes something for the teeth?  I vaguely remember my vet mentioning a tough kind of meat you could

by that would be good for the teeth.

Anyway, I'll think I'll go wash my hands another few times......

Well after making several batches of raw + supplements, I've only made a little progress.    It seems like he won't touch ground at all, it has to be in pieces.  Also, those pieces can't be too big or he'll swallow them whole and them throw them up on the carpet (eep!) 

So far, he also doesn't eat nearly as much when the supplement is mixed as opposed to just pieces of raw alone.  I'm not sure if it's the texture or one particular thing throwing him off.  I know he won't eat raw egg alone, so it could be that. 

Any ideas?  It's hard to make really small amount so I can switch ingredients  things out to see if there's something I can find an alternative to.   Or I guess he might just warm to it regardless.