At the rescue group I volunteered with (this was near Atlanta, so giardia strains may be different depending on region), we tended to have much better success treating giardia with metronidazole (flagyl) than panacur, although panacur was more mild and a little safer for young kittens. It seems like it's a similar medication to Secnidazole, but we did have to give it daily for a week.
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Giardia Questions
- Thread starter calicosrspecial
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The difference with Secnidazole is that its only one dose and may actually be cheaper than 5 days of Flagyl.
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Thank you for all this scientific information. I don't have a cat with this but it's good to know that there are more than one medication that will do the job if one fails.
Thank you for the well thought out replies!
Thank you for the well thought out replies!
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StephenQ,
I just wanted to thank you for all your advice and help and time spent on this topic.
Knock on wood, my new girl's test came back and she is negative. I am hoping she doesn't somehow reinfect but she has been negative for a month now. So the medicine and the cleaning seems to have worked so far.
I just wanted to thank you for all your help as I am not sure I could have gotten her through this without your knowledge and advice. I really appreciate the time you spent helping me.
She is doing great and loving her new family and forever home.
CRS
I just wanted to thank you for all your advice and help and time spent on this topic.
Knock on wood, my new girl's test came back and she is negative. I am hoping she doesn't somehow reinfect but she has been negative for a month now. So the medicine and the cleaning seems to have worked so far.
I just wanted to thank you for all your help as I am not sure I could have gotten her through this without your knowledge and advice. I really appreciate the time you spent helping me.
She is doing great and loving her new family and forever home.
CRS
Congrats and glad to help!
I'm at my witt's end with health problems from a new baby kitten I adopted 12 days ago from PAWS. As soon as he came home he already had a nasty cold but the diarrhea was the worst part. PAWS just said if he was eating, drinking, and using the litterbox that's what mattered so I didn't worry. The cold and diarrhea got worse and i took him to the vet immediately.
His fecal test came positive for giardia. he was treated with panacur for 6 days 65 miligram liquid doses. I've been paranoid and been working from home every day, cleaning everything well, from boogers and just to keep the bug contained. I cleaned his litterbox every single day and immediately scooped any poop. I use baby wipes to clean his butt and paws right after. I also have been giving him lysine treats the past few days and crushing bits of lysine pills into his food. He's been going about three times a day and the last few days were so bad. The medication didn't help at all.
Just went back to the vet and he said that's the only medicine he would give to a kitten with giardia, that my kitten's immune system was probably too weak to fight it off and that i should just wait it out for a few months with a mild antibiotic to treat some of the symptoms.
I feel like he'll be miserable if i just lock him in the bathroom when I'm at work to prevent infected diarrhea or blood from getting in the rest of the apartment but this is the only suggestion the vet's assistant had when I started tearing up telling her I didn't know how to care for him when even my flex schedule isn't enough time to be around him and keep him healthy.
I just got off the phone with PAWS in tears because I don't want to give him back but I don't have the availability for an indefinite number of months to stay home an nurse him to contain the infection (and to keep it from spreading to me) and wait till his immune system is strong enough to fight this off with medication. They're going to see if there's a temporary arrangement that can be made for him otherwise I might have to give him back....
I don't want to give him up but I have no idea what to do any more since everything I've done has failed to make him better and even the vets are saying to just "give it a few months"...it's not just the financial burden (It's been 12 days and i've already spent 50 dollars in litter lysol wipes and baby wipes, and some 40 dollars in lysine, kitty sinus drops and bland food to give him....this is all OUTSIDE of regular catfood/supplies/toys and not counting medication/vet bills. I can't spend some 60-80 dollars every couple of weeks just for maintenance on top possible continuous rounds of antibiotics to try to treat symptoms and however many rounds of treatments it takes to keep giardia away in the coming months) but the emotional burden as well and consuming and careful sanitation of everything to prevent reinfection of him or me.... I won't even be able to leave for a night or a weekend in months to come cause hiring a cat sitter for just a couple hours a day isn't going to be enough to prevent infection....
Is it just the vet that's dumb and doesn't want to give him other medication options? Is there anything else I can try outside of prescription to treat giardia and his URI besides lysine? I'm overridden with guilt and sadness....
His fecal test came positive for giardia. he was treated with panacur for 6 days 65 miligram liquid doses. I've been paranoid and been working from home every day, cleaning everything well, from boogers and just to keep the bug contained. I cleaned his litterbox every single day and immediately scooped any poop. I use baby wipes to clean his butt and paws right after. I also have been giving him lysine treats the past few days and crushing bits of lysine pills into his food. He's been going about three times a day and the last few days were so bad. The medication didn't help at all.
Just went back to the vet and he said that's the only medicine he would give to a kitten with giardia, that my kitten's immune system was probably too weak to fight it off and that i should just wait it out for a few months with a mild antibiotic to treat some of the symptoms.
I feel like he'll be miserable if i just lock him in the bathroom when I'm at work to prevent infected diarrhea or blood from getting in the rest of the apartment but this is the only suggestion the vet's assistant had when I started tearing up telling her I didn't know how to care for him when even my flex schedule isn't enough time to be around him and keep him healthy.
I just got off the phone with PAWS in tears because I don't want to give him back but I don't have the availability for an indefinite number of months to stay home an nurse him to contain the infection (and to keep it from spreading to me) and wait till his immune system is strong enough to fight this off with medication. They're going to see if there's a temporary arrangement that can be made for him otherwise I might have to give him back....
I don't want to give him up but I have no idea what to do any more since everything I've done has failed to make him better and even the vets are saying to just "give it a few months"...it's not just the financial burden (It's been 12 days and i've already spent 50 dollars in litter lysol wipes and baby wipes, and some 40 dollars in lysine, kitty sinus drops and bland food to give him....this is all OUTSIDE of regular catfood/supplies/toys and not counting medication/vet bills. I can't spend some 60-80 dollars every couple of weeks just for maintenance on top possible continuous rounds of antibiotics to try to treat symptoms and however many rounds of treatments it takes to keep giardia away in the coming months) but the emotional burden as well and consuming and careful sanitation of everything to prevent reinfection of him or me.... I won't even be able to leave for a night or a weekend in months to come cause hiring a cat sitter for just a couple hours a day isn't going to be enough to prevent infection....
Is it just the vet that's dumb and doesn't want to give him other medication options? Is there anything else I can try outside of prescription to treat giardia and his URI besides lysine? I'm overridden with guilt and sadness....
Sorry but this will have to be a short answer - ! have to get a room ready for a cat with kittens and the last resident in the room was a cat with giardia!
Calm down, and don't worry! A new kitten from a shelter with cat flue, giardia and diarrhea needs time to settle down and as quiet a life as possible. If you panic it will not help him at all. First things first: giardia is not a life threatening parasite even for humans. Healthy adults often don't know they've got them and the complaint clears up on its own. People at risk - babies and elderly - are treated for diarrhea to prevent them from becoming dehydrated. A cat will unfortunately reinfect itself by licking itself clean. Even when a cat is pronounced free of the parasites, they can reappear as they possibly hide in other parts of the body and not only in the alimentary canal.
Not all cats with giardia have diarrhea: some have no symptoms and some vomit.
So, I would do all you can to treat the diarrhea and improve the cat's general condition. Cooked chicken (with or without) pumpkin, and other food recommended on this site in other forums, will help to get him back to normal. Panacur also often causes diarrhea so it is always advisable to be prepared to counteract this with an appropriate diet.
You don't say how old your cat is - but it is not advisable to give young cats strong medication especially when his condition is not good. Try to concentrate on controlling the diarrhea, keep the litter box clean but don't turn yourself into a nervous wreck. Enjoy your cat and I am sure he will respond positively, his health will improve and it will no longer seem to be the end of the world if he has to be treated again for giardia.
All the cats and kittens I have had in my care have got over their diarrhea and giardia with Panacur and a chicken/pumpkin diet.
So good luck.
Calm down, and don't worry! A new kitten from a shelter with cat flue, giardia and diarrhea needs time to settle down and as quiet a life as possible. If you panic it will not help him at all. First things first: giardia is not a life threatening parasite even for humans. Healthy adults often don't know they've got them and the complaint clears up on its own. People at risk - babies and elderly - are treated for diarrhea to prevent them from becoming dehydrated. A cat will unfortunately reinfect itself by licking itself clean. Even when a cat is pronounced free of the parasites, they can reappear as they possibly hide in other parts of the body and not only in the alimentary canal.
Not all cats with giardia have diarrhea: some have no symptoms and some vomit.
So, I would do all you can to treat the diarrhea and improve the cat's general condition. Cooked chicken (with or without) pumpkin, and other food recommended on this site in other forums, will help to get him back to normal. Panacur also often causes diarrhea so it is always advisable to be prepared to counteract this with an appropriate diet.
You don't say how old your cat is - but it is not advisable to give young cats strong medication especially when his condition is not good. Try to concentrate on controlling the diarrhea, keep the litter box clean but don't turn yourself into a nervous wreck. Enjoy your cat and I am sure he will respond positively, his health will improve and it will no longer seem to be the end of the world if he has to be treated again for giardia.
All the cats and kittens I have had in my care have got over their diarrhea and giardia with Panacur and a chicken/pumpkin diet.
So good luck.
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I am so sorry to hear this. Please do not feel guilty you are doing everything you can. You sound like you love your kitten and you are doing your best and I think you are wonderful.
Stephen is really the expert on this topic, he is excellent and I hope he will weigh in shortly.
I dealt with Giardia in a 3 yr old cat so my situation was different. I was never too worried about catching giardia myself but I was worried about reinfection for the cat and about infecting other cats in the house. After every bowel movement I threw out the litter box, everything went out (in a garbage bag and into the trash). I then bleached everything. I believe in this thread there is good information on what disinfectants to use. I kept my infected cat in a room and in a large dog crate. I wanted to keep the giardia contained in a small area as any area that may have been touched needs to be disinfected. You have to be careful that the bleach does not go on the cat so the cat has to be moved to another area when cleaning the crate. These giardia cysts are tough to kill so it is best to keep the area the cat is in manageable.
If you are worried about catching giardia yourself make sure you wear gloves and that you do not get any of the feces on you. And wash well after cleaning.
I am not sure baby wipes will do much to help as they do not kill giardia. Chlorhexidine shampoo is really the only thing that I know of that can be used on the coat to kill giardia. Please ask your vet about this.
Did the kitten eat all of the panacur? Getting the whole dose is really important. If you have to hold back some food before giving the panacur so that the kitten eats all of it I would personally do that. They need to get the full dose. And then with removing the litter box and bleaching any surface the kitten may have touched and then possibly using the chlorhexidine shampoo you will defeat this. BUT PLEASE ASK YOU VET ABOUT ALL OF THIS ADVICE.
You may also want to ask your vet about using Secnidazole. Here is a video that talks about Giardia and Secnidazole. http://www.maddiesfund.org/vet-to-vet-secnidazole.htm I am not sure about the safety profile so PLEASE DISCUSS WITH YOUR VET.
He will not be miserable if he is contained in a bathroom or a crate in the bathroom. If you get good compliance on the treatment and you clean the areas and possibly the cat itself then it will only be about 3 weeks of containment. Kittens (cats) are resilient and the kitten will not be bothered by being contained when the kitten is healthy.
It sounds like your kitten had access to the entire apartment. It would be best to bleach if possible or steam clean anywhere you think the kitten has been. Here is a link to the CDC for a lot of information about Giardia and Pets.
I know the fear and frustration and all the emotions you are going through. I went through all these feelings. But giardia can be beat and you sound like you want to do the right thing and are very capable of beating this.
Stephen really is the expert on this so he will be able to really give you good advice and also correct anything I have suggested.
Thank you so much for adopting this kitten and for caring so much about the kitten. He has a tough start but he is in great hands. I wish I could be of more help but Stephen will be. He is terrific.
Hang in there, you will beat this and get your kitten healthy.
Stephen is really the expert on this topic, he is excellent and I hope he will weigh in shortly.
I dealt with Giardia in a 3 yr old cat so my situation was different. I was never too worried about catching giardia myself but I was worried about reinfection for the cat and about infecting other cats in the house. After every bowel movement I threw out the litter box, everything went out (in a garbage bag and into the trash). I then bleached everything. I believe in this thread there is good information on what disinfectants to use. I kept my infected cat in a room and in a large dog crate. I wanted to keep the giardia contained in a small area as any area that may have been touched needs to be disinfected. You have to be careful that the bleach does not go on the cat so the cat has to be moved to another area when cleaning the crate. These giardia cysts are tough to kill so it is best to keep the area the cat is in manageable.
If you are worried about catching giardia yourself make sure you wear gloves and that you do not get any of the feces on you. And wash well after cleaning.
I am not sure baby wipes will do much to help as they do not kill giardia. Chlorhexidine shampoo is really the only thing that I know of that can be used on the coat to kill giardia. Please ask your vet about this.
Did the kitten eat all of the panacur? Getting the whole dose is really important. If you have to hold back some food before giving the panacur so that the kitten eats all of it I would personally do that. They need to get the full dose. And then with removing the litter box and bleaching any surface the kitten may have touched and then possibly using the chlorhexidine shampoo you will defeat this. BUT PLEASE ASK YOU VET ABOUT ALL OF THIS ADVICE.
You may also want to ask your vet about using Secnidazole. Here is a video that talks about Giardia and Secnidazole. http://www.maddiesfund.org/vet-to-vet-secnidazole.htm I am not sure about the safety profile so PLEASE DISCUSS WITH YOUR VET.
He will not be miserable if he is contained in a bathroom or a crate in the bathroom. If you get good compliance on the treatment and you clean the areas and possibly the cat itself then it will only be about 3 weeks of containment. Kittens (cats) are resilient and the kitten will not be bothered by being contained when the kitten is healthy.
It sounds like your kitten had access to the entire apartment. It would be best to bleach if possible or steam clean anywhere you think the kitten has been. Here is a link to the CDC for a lot of information about Giardia and Pets.
I know the fear and frustration and all the emotions you are going through. I went through all these feelings. But giardia can be beat and you sound like you want to do the right thing and are very capable of beating this.
Stephen really is the expert on this so he will be able to really give you good advice and also correct anything I have suggested.
Thank you so much for adopting this kitten and for caring so much about the kitten. He has a tough start but he is in great hands. I wish I could be of more help but Stephen will be. He is terrific.
Hang in there, you will beat this and get your kitten healthy.
@santisd, in addition to the possibilities mentioned above, what comes to my mind is using a probiotic with an S. boulardii strain if he really isn't healthy enough to withstand harsher medications than panacur. Giardia lives in the gut, which is also where a healthy cat has a flourishing microbiome of healthy bacteria. S. boulardii has been shown to be good at establishing itself and decreasing the ability for parasitic organsims like giardia to thrive. And a probiotic is definitely not a harsh treatment option at all, quite the opposite. It'd probably be a good idea anyway since he's been on antibiotics, so that's something else to put on your list of questions for the vet!
We're not vets and we can't examine your kitten in person even if we were, so we can't say if this vet is correct in thinking that the best course is to postpone treatment. If what the vet is saying doesn't quite make sense to you though, it's perfectly fine to try someone else and get a second opinion. There's a wide range of quality and expertise in vets and it's always helped me to shop around and find a vet that I felt confident understood my kitty.
We're not vets and we can't examine your kitten in person even if we were, so we can't say if this vet is correct in thinking that the best course is to postpone treatment. If what the vet is saying doesn't quite make sense to you though, it's perfectly fine to try someone else and get a second opinion. There's a wide range of quality and expertise in vets and it's always helped me to shop around and find a vet that I felt confident understood my kitty.
Hi
No there are no OTC treatments for Giardia, but i would talk to your vet about Secnidazole, its fairly new, very safe, very effective and is given as a single dose. It may be harder to get, but its what we use in emergency shelters. See http://www.revivalanimal.com/articles/giardia.html, the website also talks about effective disinfecting.
L-Lysine is only effective for feline herpes, one of only several types of feline URI's, but an endless supply for cheap can be found here,
Cats with URI's are routinely given antibiotics to prevent nasty secondary bacterial infections and i would suggest you discuss this with your vet. Other than that all you really need is stage one chicken baby food, non-medical saline nose drops, good appetite support, and if his eyes are infected then eye meds as well if bacterial.
Many adoption groups have a written post-adoption medical support policy. I would ask what PAW's policy is. Which PAWS was this by the way?
Stephen
Thank you all so so much!
I calmed down some especially after reading all your wonderful responses. My kitten is two and a half months old (he's so little) and it sounds like many people experience similar things.
PAWS wasn't able to get me a second medication, their vet recommended the same treatment so I'm just gonna bring the second fecal test this coming week (clearly it'll still be positive) and get a second round of panacur.
I'm still concerned about some of the cleanliness that it takes. I don't have the availability to bleach my whole apartment every day, but i read that lysol works well so i'll be spraying all the areas where he hangs out whenever I can...
This will be my plan for his second treatment next week once we confirm he's still infected.
1. I will be to completely contain him to the bathroom during the day and when i get back from work clean him up with Chlorhexidine shampoo, let him roam the apartment for a couple hours and treat the whole bathroom with bleach.
2. I'll buy chicken to feed him along with his gross bland food that he hates so much. Kinda hard to find pumpkin this time a year, so I think chicken will have to do.
2. I'll boil his toys in hot water before the treatment and if he goes to the bathroom when I'm not home (urgh probably my worst fear that me being out of the house will be enough for him to reinfect himself!) I'll boil them again.
2. Whenever i'm around clean his bottom with a little bit of the shampoo and i guess start and finish the treatment with a full wash of the shampoo, especially his back side. I'll continue to throw out his litter every day during the treatment.
3. I will admit that he hated the liquid medicine so much the first time around that the first 3 days or so I would try to push the entire dose in his mouth and several drops (probably more than a milliliter)dropped off on the ground. By the end I realized I had to do it in smaller doses (2-3) make sure the syringe was deeper in his little mouth and make sure barely any was falling out, so I'll be extremely careful with this second prescription.
I really hope that does it or I'm gonna be extremely frustrated!!
I have a couple questions/need opinions on two things:
1. The part i'm most concerned about is the litter, which is getting expensive and very annoying to detox every day for now until he gets treated again/until this whole thing goes away. II think I'm gonna get an actual mini shovel without holes to completely remove the area where he poops (as long as I'm around to see where that is) so I can change the litter every other day instead of twice a day or every day on most days. That way I cut my litter cost to half until he starts treatment again and then again after treatment until he tests clear. Do you guys think this is risking it too much before and after the full treatment? I would still do every day or more while he's taking panacea.
2. I ordered some boulardii on amazon, that had a bunch of reviews of using with cats that have diarrhea and using while on antibiotics! (yay!) My question is dosage - how many capsules (5 billion cf) should I give him a day? Do you think 2 a day is good to mix with his food?
I'm really trying here guys! PAWS (Chicago) has been understanding and offered to take him back if it's too taxing for me but did recommend that the best environment while he's sick will definitely be with me.... He got antibiotics (super expensive) today and the vet charged me for the expensive bland food (that he hates) so PAWS says they will work with the vet to refund me for at least some of those costs. I really love him so I'm gonna give it a go and really be a cleaning maniac for this second round of the process. I think he's happy at with me and we're bonding so much so even though it's expensive right now I hope it'll be worth it and I'm able to keep him.
I can't thank you enough for all the tips!
I calmed down some especially after reading all your wonderful responses. My kitten is two and a half months old (he's so little) and it sounds like many people experience similar things.
PAWS wasn't able to get me a second medication, their vet recommended the same treatment so I'm just gonna bring the second fecal test this coming week (clearly it'll still be positive) and get a second round of panacur.
I'm still concerned about some of the cleanliness that it takes. I don't have the availability to bleach my whole apartment every day, but i read that lysol works well so i'll be spraying all the areas where he hangs out whenever I can...
This will be my plan for his second treatment next week once we confirm he's still infected.
1. I will be to completely contain him to the bathroom during the day and when i get back from work clean him up with Chlorhexidine shampoo, let him roam the apartment for a couple hours and treat the whole bathroom with bleach.
2. I'll buy chicken to feed him along with his gross bland food that he hates so much. Kinda hard to find pumpkin this time a year, so I think chicken will have to do.
2. I'll boil his toys in hot water before the treatment and if he goes to the bathroom when I'm not home (urgh probably my worst fear that me being out of the house will be enough for him to reinfect himself!) I'll boil them again.
2. Whenever i'm around clean his bottom with a little bit of the shampoo and i guess start and finish the treatment with a full wash of the shampoo, especially his back side. I'll continue to throw out his litter every day during the treatment.
3. I will admit that he hated the liquid medicine so much the first time around that the first 3 days or so I would try to push the entire dose in his mouth and several drops (probably more than a milliliter)dropped off on the ground. By the end I realized I had to do it in smaller doses (2-3) make sure the syringe was deeper in his little mouth and make sure barely any was falling out, so I'll be extremely careful with this second prescription.
I really hope that does it or I'm gonna be extremely frustrated!!
I have a couple questions/need opinions on two things:
1. The part i'm most concerned about is the litter, which is getting expensive and very annoying to detox every day for now until he gets treated again/until this whole thing goes away. II think I'm gonna get an actual mini shovel without holes to completely remove the area where he poops (as long as I'm around to see where that is) so I can change the litter every other day instead of twice a day or every day on most days. That way I cut my litter cost to half until he starts treatment again and then again after treatment until he tests clear. Do you guys think this is risking it too much before and after the full treatment? I would still do every day or more while he's taking panacea.
2. I ordered some boulardii on amazon, that had a bunch of reviews of using with cats that have diarrhea and using while on antibiotics! (yay!) My question is dosage - how many capsules (5 billion cf) should I give him a day? Do you think 2 a day is good to mix with his food?
I'm really trying here guys! PAWS (Chicago) has been understanding and offered to take him back if it's too taxing for me but did recommend that the best environment while he's sick will definitely be with me.... He got antibiotics (super expensive) today and the vet charged me for the expensive bland food (that he hates) so PAWS says they will work with the vet to refund me for at least some of those costs. I really love him so I'm gonna give it a go and really be a cleaning maniac for this second round of the process. I think he's happy at with me and we're bonding so much so even though it's expensive right now I hope it'll be worth it and I'm able to keep him.
I can't thank you enough for all the tips!
This thread is a good resource for S. boulardii info: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/283161/saccharomyces-boulardii-use-for-diarrhea-and-gi-disease-incl-ibd. I'd start with half a capsule twice a day because he's small, but you can probably go up to 2 capsules a day if you need to. Baby food (chicken, turkey, or ham) from Gerber or Beechnut is a great for hiding medicine. Give him a taste to see how interested he is in it first. Most cats absolutely love it so they lap up every last drop and you know they're getting all the medicine that way. I've had success mixing it with Panacur before, and you can also try it with the probiotic (just open up the capsule and mix the powder in). Baby food is also good to feed as a bland food for the short term, but it doesn't have the right nutrients to be a balanced diet for a cat for the long term. Maybe you can mix that in with some of the gross vet food for now, though.
Just got the shampoo and probiotic in the mail today! I'll look into the baby food but we started feeding him strung boiled chicken with a little broth and he seems to love it so maybe that's the route I'll go with the medicine for the next week or so. I'll take your recommendation and start with half a capsule a day.
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santisd,
I am wondering if he did not get the necessary amount of panacur and that is why the first round of treatment did not work. I had a three year old and had the powered capsules. I would get it pretty hungry and mix it in a little amount of food. Since it is pretty bitter anything that can cover the taste should help compliance. My girl had great compliance and ate all her food with the panacur. I think that this why my girl got cured quickly.
Anyway you get get your kitten to get all her medicine will be very helpful in your efforts. Molly92 offers great advice in helping with disguising it and getting your kitten to eat all of the medicine.
If you could change out the litter every day while he is getting his panacur I think that is really best. After his last dose if you want to cut back to every other day I think that is fine. But he really needs to get all of the medicine. I have no idea how much reinfection is due to licking feet or other grooming and how much is due to the cat not getting the whole dose for the whole treatment time.
I would really try to contain him in as small of an area as possible in order to reduce the risk of reinfection due to contaminated surfaces. I know it is hard to see him only in a bathroom and a crate etc but it allows you not to have to clean the whole house in case he got some cysts on his feet and tracked them around.
I am not sure if Lysol kills giardia. I am going to include what the CDC says about disinfecting areas and items below. I believe Stephen uses Chlorhexidine solution to clean surfaces. The CDC says this can be used rather than bleach.
And finally, thank you so much for what you are doing for him, for not giving up on him. For doing everything you are doing to get him healthy. You truly are wonderful for caring and sacrificing like you are for him. I know how much work it is and how time consuming but with that love you have for him and he has for you it is all worth it. You will get through this. I just can't thank you enough for doing all you are doing for him!! THANK YOU!!
Here is what the CDC says about cleaning to get rid of giardia:
Giardia is hard to completely eliminate from the environment, but there are things you can do to decrease the risk of your pets’ reinfection and of human infection.
I am wondering if he did not get the necessary amount of panacur and that is why the first round of treatment did not work. I had a three year old and had the powered capsules. I would get it pretty hungry and mix it in a little amount of food. Since it is pretty bitter anything that can cover the taste should help compliance. My girl had great compliance and ate all her food with the panacur. I think that this why my girl got cured quickly.
Anyway you get get your kitten to get all her medicine will be very helpful in your efforts. Molly92 offers great advice in helping with disguising it and getting your kitten to eat all of the medicine.
If you could change out the litter every day while he is getting his panacur I think that is really best. After his last dose if you want to cut back to every other day I think that is fine. But he really needs to get all of the medicine. I have no idea how much reinfection is due to licking feet or other grooming and how much is due to the cat not getting the whole dose for the whole treatment time.
I would really try to contain him in as small of an area as possible in order to reduce the risk of reinfection due to contaminated surfaces. I know it is hard to see him only in a bathroom and a crate etc but it allows you not to have to clean the whole house in case he got some cysts on his feet and tracked them around.
I am not sure if Lysol kills giardia. I am going to include what the CDC says about disinfecting areas and items below. I believe Stephen uses Chlorhexidine solution to clean surfaces. The CDC says this can be used rather than bleach.
- Quaternary ammonium compound products (QATS) 4, which are found in some household cleaning products; the active ingredient may be listed as alkyl dimethyl ammonium chloride.
And finally, thank you so much for what you are doing for him, for not giving up on him. For doing everything you are doing to get him healthy. You truly are wonderful for caring and sacrificing like you are for him. I know how much work it is and how time consuming but with that love you have for him and he has for you it is all worth it. You will get through this. I just can't thank you enough for doing all you are doing for him!! THANK YOU!!
Here is what the CDC says about cleaning to get rid of giardia:
Giardia is hard to completely eliminate from the environment, but there are things you can do to decrease the risk of your pets’ reinfection and of human infection.
- Hard surfaces (for example: cement and tile floors, crates, tables, trash cans, etc.)
- Cleaning
- Wear gloves.
- Remove feces and discard in a plastic bag.
- Clean and scrub surfaces using soap. Rinse surface thoroughly until no obvious visible contamination is present.
- Disinfection
- Wear gloves.
- Disinfect according to manufacturer guidelines using one of the following:
- Follow product instructions, ensuring the product stays in contact with the surface for the recommended amount of time.
- Rinse with clean water.
- Cleaning
- Carpet / Upholstered Furniture
- Cleaning
- Wear gloves.
- If feces are on a carpet or upholstered furniture, remove them with absorbent material (for example, double layered paper towels).
- Place and discard the feces in a plastic bag.
- Clean the contaminated area with regular detergent or carpet cleaning agent.
- Allow carpet or upholstered furniture to fully dry.
- Disinfection
- Wear gloves.
- Steam clean the area at 158°F for 5 minutes or 212°F for 1 minute.
- Quaternary ammonium compound products (QATS) are found in some carpet cleaning products and can also be used after cleaning to disinfect. Read the product labels for specifications, and follow all instructions.
- Cleaning
- Other items (toys, clothing, pet bed, etc.)
- Household items should be cleaned and disinfected daily while a dog or cat is being treated for Giardiainfection.
- Dishwasher
- Dishwasher-safe toys and water and food bowls can be disinfected in a dishwasher that has a dry cycle or a final rinse that exceeds one of the following:
- 113°F for 20 minutes
- 122°F for 5 minutes
- 162°F for 1 minute
- If a dishwasher is not available, submerge dishwasher-safe items in boiling water for at least 1 minute (at elevations above 6,500 feet, boil for 3 minutes).
- Dishwasher-safe toys and water and food bowls can be disinfected in a dishwasher that has a dry cycle or a final rinse that exceeds one of the following:
- Washer and Dryer
- Clothing, some pet items (for example, bedding and cloth toys) and linens (sheets and towels) can be washed in the washing machine and then heat-dried on the highest heat setting for 30 minutes.
- If a clothes dryer is not available, allow clothes to thoroughly air dry under direct sunlight.
One other tip about disinfecting for parasites in general: Coccidia is just about as common as giardia, and it cannot be killed with bleach. Because stool sample tests are hit and miss for these parasites, a cat can have both giardia and coccidia and you might not realize it, so to be on the safe side, a 10% ammonia solution will kill both. (Never use ammonia and bleach at the same time.)
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Molly92,
How is a PCR test in detecting Coccidia? Is there a reasonable risk of a false negative? How about an Elisa test?
I know this is tough but how often is Coccidia found with Giardia?
Thanks.
How is a PCR test in detecting Coccidia? Is there a reasonable risk of a false negative? How about an Elisa test?
I know this is tough but how often is Coccidia found with Giardia?
Thanks.
The PCR test should be very good at detecting coccidia and have a low rate of false negatives, because it looks for specific sequences of coccidia DNA rather than identifying it under a microscope in a fecal float. I don't know much about using an ELISA test for coccidia. I know it's not as accurate for many illnesses because it tests for antibodies so it can only tell you if the animal had the disease at some point, not whether it currently has it. Also, many cats are carriers for giardia and coccidia but aren't actually affected by them, so those could show up as false positives in these kinds of tests.
In the shelter I volunteered at we rarely sent off for any diagnostic tests, but just treated for coccidia when diarrhea was yellowy and very foul smelling, and giardia when it was browner and often smelled slightly sweet. 80% a kitten had multiple parasites, usually one would be more apparent at first and after treating for that, the second would become easier to diagnose. I have a document written by a volunteer saying that 80% of cats coming into the shelter that had been living outdoors had coccida, and 40% had giardia (meaning that about 32% of cats would have both), but I think those were just her rough estimates and that would vary a lot depending on the location. I don't know of any reputable sources for stats on cats with giardia and coccidia. I just know they're both very common diarrhea-causing parasites.
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Molly,
Thank you for the very helpful information.
I wonder if santisd should ask her vet about Coccidia. A PCR test might be out of reach financially but maybe there is another test the vet can suggest to get an answer.
Here is a link to the Cornell University Feline Health Center with some good information. http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/Health_Information/brochure_parasite.cfm
Here is the section on Coccidia and Giardia:
Protozoan Parasites
Thank you for the very helpful information.
I wonder if santisd should ask her vet about Coccidia. A PCR test might be out of reach financially but maybe there is another test the vet can suggest to get an answer.
Here is a link to the Cornell University Feline Health Center with some good information. http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/Health_Information/brochure_parasite.cfm
Here is the section on Coccidia and Giardia:
Protozoan Parasites
Sigh, it breaks my heart to post this but I followed everyone's advice and it's a week after Panacur round 2 (this time 1 ml per day (almost double what we tried before)). He additionally was taking doxycycline which at least cleared up his URI completely.....and the diarrhea is back full force....
-I did 1 part bleach to 10 parts water to sanitize my whole apartment before treatment and also put everything through the wash, including upholstery and lysoled everything that couldn't be put through the wash and set to dry....
-I bathed him with the special shampoo you mentioned before treatment.
-I boiled all his toys
-I limited him to the bathroom all night and all day and would only let him out a couple hours a day after wiping him off with a bit of the shampoo to lysol the bathroom and clean his litterbox.
-I washed all blankets and toys he used every two days.
-I cleaned his food and water bowl 2-3 times a day.
-I gave him1-2 s. boullardii capsules per day.
I had an accident 2 days before treatment ended so I wasn't as able to clean absolutely everything as well the last two days cause i was mainly in bed rest but i did clean his bowl, letterbox, wiped him clean when I could...i think the only thing i didn't do was wash his toys for maybe 3 days instead of 2 days and didn't lysol the bathroom. but the worst part is that he didn't even stay in the apartment. my friend cat sitted for me when it was getting too hard to walk around with my injury from the last day of treatment till this Thursday....so he was in a completely giardia free apartment for almost 4 days right at the end of treatment.
I have no clue what to do anymore. The parasite is clearly still there and I feel completely helpless.... I thought I did everything right and I feel like somehow I messed it up again.
I'm wondering if maybe I should change his vet? Cause his current vet that diagnosed this is extremely pessimistic and unfortunately was right when he said that a second round of panacur probably wouldn't get rid of this. ISN'T THIS INDICATIVE OF HIM NEEDING OTHER MEDICATION???... This vet is more of an approach of just "waiting till he's older to treat this". clearly this past week i went lax with the cleaning since I was praying he was better even though his stool was still a little soft....and now its back to full on pudding with blood.... I think maybe the doxycycline was making the stools better (that treatment was 10 days).... it's clearly still there. If there were no symptoms and the vet felt fine about letting him have this maybe I would be fine with it too, but a kitten with chronic diarrea is something hard to just "wait out" for a few months....
Any words of advise would be helpful right now.... I don't know anyone personally that's had such a hard time beating this thing...
-I did 1 part bleach to 10 parts water to sanitize my whole apartment before treatment and also put everything through the wash, including upholstery and lysoled everything that couldn't be put through the wash and set to dry....
-I bathed him with the special shampoo you mentioned before treatment.
-I boiled all his toys
-I limited him to the bathroom all night and all day and would only let him out a couple hours a day after wiping him off with a bit of the shampoo to lysol the bathroom and clean his litterbox.
-I washed all blankets and toys he used every two days.
-I cleaned his food and water bowl 2-3 times a day.
-I gave him1-2 s. boullardii capsules per day.
I had an accident 2 days before treatment ended so I wasn't as able to clean absolutely everything as well the last two days cause i was mainly in bed rest but i did clean his bowl, letterbox, wiped him clean when I could...i think the only thing i didn't do was wash his toys for maybe 3 days instead of 2 days and didn't lysol the bathroom. but the worst part is that he didn't even stay in the apartment. my friend cat sitted for me when it was getting too hard to walk around with my injury from the last day of treatment till this Thursday....so he was in a completely giardia free apartment for almost 4 days right at the end of treatment.
I have no clue what to do anymore. The parasite is clearly still there and I feel completely helpless.... I thought I did everything right and I feel like somehow I messed it up again.
I'm wondering if maybe I should change his vet? Cause his current vet that diagnosed this is extremely pessimistic and unfortunately was right when he said that a second round of panacur probably wouldn't get rid of this. ISN'T THIS INDICATIVE OF HIM NEEDING OTHER MEDICATION???... This vet is more of an approach of just "waiting till he's older to treat this". clearly this past week i went lax with the cleaning since I was praying he was better even though his stool was still a little soft....and now its back to full on pudding with blood.... I think maybe the doxycycline was making the stools better (that treatment was 10 days).... it's clearly still there. If there were no symptoms and the vet felt fine about letting him have this maybe I would be fine with it too, but a kitten with chronic diarrea is something hard to just "wait out" for a few months....
Any words of advise would be helpful right now.... I don't know anyone personally that's had such a hard time beating this thing...
If you're not happy with the vet, then by all means get a second opinion. If he hasn't had the PCR diarrhea panel, get that done. You could be dealing with multiple issues, too. He could still have giardia, but he also might not be tolerating the meds thus the soft poop. Lysol really isn't good for kitties, so I wouldn't recommend that any longer.
