Grapefruit seed Extract for Cats

Hi there!

I need some advice on how to use grapeseed extract for my cat, Rocky. Rocky is a seven month old male kitten who I have been trying to have neutered for the past three months. He had a very nasty URI when he was three months old, has already gone thru two courses of that pink bubblegum antibiotic,and several reoccurences of this nasty bug without any antibiotics. My vet told me to keep an eye on him, and if he stopped eating and drinking I was to bring him in immediately. Thankfully, Rocky never got that bad. I got him from a cat rescue group, and I do believe that there were too many cats and kittens in his foster mom's house. One had the bug, and they ALL got the bug. Even my two female adults cats caught this thing a couple of weeks after Rocky came to live with us.

I've tried vitamin C tablets, 250 mg once a day, but that doesn't seem to be working. I posted message about thus problem elsewhere on the board, and lotsacats suggested I come here.

I've heard about grape seed extract, but I don't know how I could use it for my cats. I don't even know what the dosage for a nine pound cat would be. I am also thinking about giving grapeseed to my two other cats: Angel has chronic sinusitis, and Ruby is overweight, and wheezes quite a lot. Can anyone give me any advice about using grapeseed extract?

Rocky was supposed to be neutered two weeks ago. He wheezes a lot and bubbles a little now, and my vet does not want to give him his last kitten shots until he stops wheezing. He does have a slight discharge coming out of the corners of his eyes.

I use two drops per day per cat in canned food with great results. After battling endless URI with the group I had, I finally went to my friendly health food guru and he suggested I use this stuff. Now this was after countless vet visits, bouts with amoxydrops, and clavamox and even baytril. Nothing was working. So I started using this, in their canned food and also dropping it into the water fountain, about 6 drops every time I scrubbed the bowl out. Within one week, I started seeing differences in the kittens first, then with the cats. When a new feral arrives that has runny eyes and nose, I put them on this immediately even before going to the vet.

I swear by this stuff, and hubby and I even take 2 drops in a glass of juice every day and have for the past two years. We didn't get colds, or a flu in that entire time, except for this year, I caught a cold from standing in the creek with my horse while he soaked his legs. But, it was not a bad cold like I normally get and I kicked it in days!

Good grief, that was QUICK!

Hissy, I thank you, and those germy little hairballs at home would thank you too, if they could. Well, maybe Rocky wouldn't thank you...as soon as that wheezing stops...snip, snip...

It's in liquid form? I don't have to wrap these cats up in towels, pry their mouths open, and slip greasy little pills down their throats?

I'm headed to the health food store as soon as I can. I'm going to start taking grapeseed, too!

Isn't is grapefruit seed extract, not grapeseed?

Right it is grapefruit seed extract and you want the liquid not the pill form. This in no way should take the place of a visit to the vet if your cat is exhibiting symptoms because URI can be really nasty and may mean other viruses may be lurking. This was used after conventional methods failed me, and not before.

I give my kitties about 2-3 drops per 8 ounces of water. I think I may have added a little too much because my maine coon refused it at first and I found him trying to drink out of the toilet! HAHA!

Don't forget about l-lysine (500 mg tablet, 1x/day, crushed in food) and echinacea-non alcohol (2-3 drops in food, 1x/day) along with vitamin supplements. Got to keep the immune system boosted!

We've been in this apartment about three months now, and whoever lived here before was not exactly the cleanest people in the world. I nearly broke my back cleaning all that ground-in dirt at the corners of the floors. I was especially careful to rinse with clean water, so that the cats wouldn't pick up any chemicals on their paws. What concerns me the most is the the furnace. I bought one of those HEPA filters six weeks ago and it is already extremely dirty, and this filter was supposed to last for three months! I cleaned out the heating duct leading to the bedroom---some fool had thrown papers, pencils, and cigarette butts in there--and there was a lot of dust and dirt! Could that airborne dust have anything to do with the breathing problems I'm having with the cats? No matter how much I dust (and I should own stock in Swifter dusters!) there's always more coming. I've lived in other apartments before this, and I have never seen anything like this.

I dont know about the dust. But I do know its very hard to control the URI. Vanna and Samson my rescue kitties were getting over their URI when I adopted them and Vanna had a bad set back this weekend and had to go back yesterday. The vet increased her meds and gave me something to go in a humidifier which can only be a cool mist or it crosses out the med. I put her in a x-large cardboard box with her bed and the humidifer and closed the lid and kept her in there for an hour. She slept so well and was breathing great this morning. I also started the grapefruit drops last night. You do want to watch the eating though, Vanna went in on thursday and weighed 3pds 8oz. then on monday took her back and she was 2pds 15oz. So watch really closely.
You could be on to something with the dust though. Might want to do some research.

Rubyangel, talk to your landlord about the dirty ductwork. That dust isn't good for you or your animals. The ducts may need to be cleaned by a professional. I'm assuming this is a forced air furnace and if it is, it should have it's own filter that you either replace or clean, depending on the type. The pleated throw away filters are the best if it is set up for just the throw away types.

Snsorap5, after dealing with Rocky's URI problems I realized how lucky I've been. My first cat, Bandit, came from the Humane Society and was never sick a day in his life, even as a kitten. These URIs are nasty!

Hi, RBG! Great minds think alike: I talked to my landlord about cleaning the ductwork and he was not very responsive. I may have to bite the bullet and pay for the duct cleaning out of my own pocket. Fortunately, each unit has their own ductwork and furnace, so it's not like I'd be paying to clean the entire building. I'm still irritated about this, though.

I was so happy to get this place, but after I moved in I found all sorts of problems that were not readily apparent before: half the electrical sockets don't work, and call me old fashioned, but if a doorbell has been installed I expect it to work. I've been pretty creative so far in getting around these problems, but I'm not going to spend money to upgrade this guy's property.

Didn't realize it at the time, but because this landlord doesn't require a security deposit, just first and last month's rent, the folks before me weren't too concerned about cleaning up. I gotta admit, I don't want to spend a lot of time confronting this dude because I have the feeling that it wouldn't do any good. My lease is up in November and I have already talked to one of my more real-estate savvy friends about being my consultant when I go house-hunting in May. Like it or not, I need this as a rental reference for the house, so I've decided to keep my mouth shut (and as you can imagine, that's hard for me, but I want my own house, so I'll do it!

It is a forced air furnace. I use the best pleated filters I can buy, because I have respiratory problems, too, so I sympathize with the cats and their problems.

Howdy, All,

I know this is a very old thread, but figured I'd try to add my GSE question into the existing info bank and hope someone (Hissy?) notices there's a new question.  :-)  Also, I'm new to TCS, so if it's more appropriate to start a new thread after 8 (!) years, don't hesitate to set me straight. ;-)

I'm about to order GSE from Nutribiotic. They offer 2 liquid concentrate products: a "Maximum" and an "Original."  The Ingredient list for each:

Maximum -- 60% citricidal gse; 40% glycerin.

Original* --  67% glycerin; 33% grapefruit seed extract.

*note: the label on the Original does not  include the word "citricidal," which strikes me as a crucial difference. 

I'd buy the Maximum version, double the dilution, and think no more about it, except that the website states it is "for external use only."  That gives me pause.  The Nutribiotic corporation could be doing the CYA thing, or there might be a reason besides the concentration level that precludes internal use. 

I want to assume (and that right there is why I'm asking for help -- I just can't assume where my kitties are concerned!) that it would be safe to use the Maximum concentrate product IF I at least double the dilution. So for example, in my cats' water bowls, I would put no more than 2 drops of the Maximum GSE into a minimum of 5 oz water.

Where it gets tricky is the situation I'm in now, where one of my herpes cats suffers more frequent and severe flare-ups than the other. I'd like to put the occasional drop of max GSE into his (raw) food.  Not quite sure how to do that.  Do I dilute one drop GSE into one ounce (or two?) of water, and then add that dilution to his food over the course of a meal or two?

I'm unsure as to the appropriate dilution -- where is the line between most effective and non-toxic?  

And if it IS okay to use-but-dilute the Maximum concentrate product, what about palatability?  Is 40% glycerin enough to remove the bitter taste of GSE so my cat will actually ingest it?

I'd really appreciate your suggestions, advice, and previous experience.  And to those of you who've given GSE to herpes cats, how do you do it?  Do you give GSE regularly as a preventative, or only during a flare-up? 

Many thanks,

Cate

Interesting...when I went to the Nutribiotic website, all I can find in the maximum strength are in pill form.  Strange.  AND, when I googled citribiotic GSE, all that comes up is a brand name of Citribiotic, not a type.  So now I'm really confused.

But I'm thinking that is you think you would need to dilute the maximum with an oz of water to add to a raw diet, that's a LOT of water to add, don't you think?  I feed raw, and, well, that's a LOT .  ' course, I guess it depends on whether you feed ground or strips, or what.  And obviously, adding it to drinking water might not work so well, since cats on raw don't typically drink much water

So...I found a couple more threads about it, and the 2nd one discusses the maximum strength.  Maybe they will help you out.  They also discuss brands.  Still very old threads though.

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/205198/diluting-grapefruit-seed-extract

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/27969/grapefruit-seed-extract

Yikes. I apologize for not including the links in my original post -- I was trying to save people the trouble of all the back-and-forth comparison (oops).   You're right, the Nutribiotic site doesn't list the Maximum Concentrate Liquid under the main list of products -- but buried in the left side menu, under "liquids," it showed up.  Here's a link to the page that should show both liquid formulas:

 http://www.nutribiotic.com/gse-liquid-concentrate.html

Each product has a "suggested use" tab, and there are dilution instructions for the weaker formulation ("the original GSE"), but no instructions for the "Maximum" formulation (unless you count the big scary warning: FOR EXTERNAL USE ONLY    )

Normally I'm a big fan of following the instructions on the bottle--but I'm hoping there's a safe way to disregard the warning and use the more concentrated liquid, because: 1) the "Original" formula is only 33% GSE and not labeled "citricidal," while the Maximum formula GSE is twice as concentrated and officially labeled as a "citricidal." My guess -- based on the way the term is used in the pubmed article -- is that GSE content has to have a certain potency before that claim can be made.  2) In the Amazon reviews (probably not the most reliable source, but...) many customers who are familiar with an older version of the product are annoyed that the new "Original GSE" is much weaker and non-citricidal. And finally 3) a somewhat more legitimate article analyzes the level of dilution at which GSE is both non-toxic AND an effective anti-bacterial.  Excerpt AND link to abstract are pasted below.

My takeaway is that there's a crucial division between the level of GSE that is harmful/toxic/causes acid burns, but also a level at which GSE is more/most effective. So it makes a huge difference which of the 2 products one uses. But I can't figure out how to translate/apply the dilution math in the article to the stronger concentration on the Nutribiotic Maximum GSE ingredient label.     Not to mention how to allow for the weight difference between humans and cats.

Argh! Thank you for putting up with me, and I'm very sorry my posts are so convoluted, when what I'm really hoping to learn from the experience of you forum members who use GSE is:

Do you ever give your cats the 60% concentration of GSE internally, and if so, how do you dilute it?

I'll be glad of any tips you can offer!   

-c8

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12165191

Abstract

OBJECTIVES:

Recent testimonials report grapefruit-seed extract, or GSE (Citricidal) to be effective against more than 800 bacterial and viral strains, 100 strains of fungus, and a large number of single and multicelled parasites. This study investigated GSE for antibacterial activity at varying time intervals and concentration levels and tissue toxicity at varying concentrations in an effort to determine if a concentration existed that was both microbicidal and nontoxic and in what period of time.

DESIGN:

Gram-negative and gram-positive isolates were introduced into graduated dilutions of GSE (twofold concentrations ranging from 1:1, through 1:512) for determination of bacterial activity. In vitro assays with human skin fibroblast cells were also performed at the same dilutions to determine toxicity.

RESULTS:

These tests indicated that from the 1:1 through the 1:128 concentrations, GSE remained toxic as well as bactericidal. However, test results indicated that at the 1:512 dilution, GSE remained bactericidal, but completely nontoxic.

CONCLUSIONS:

The initial data shows GSE to have antimicrobial properties against a wide range of gram-negative and gram-positive organisms at dilutions found to be safe. With the aid of scanning transmission electron microscopy (STEM), the mechanism of GSE's antibacterial activity was revealed. It was evident that GSE disrupts the bacterial membrane and liberates the cytoplasmic contents within 15 minutes after contact even at more dilute concentrations.

OK, I, personally have never used it.  So...thinking maybe you should start up your own thread with the CORRECT name (this thread calls it Grapeseed vs GrapeFRUIT seed (big difference)   Now I'm just trying to figure out if you should start it up under Health or Nutrition .  Are you wanting to do this just to supplement them, or for a particular ailment?  If just to supplement, then I would put it in Nutrition.

Now, I can request it be moved for you, and they can move your original post, then my post, and your reply, if you'd like.  Or possibly YOU can request it be moved.  Try it.  If you see a little red flag at the bottom left corner of any of our posts, that's how you can request it.  That way more people may look at this and respond.  I'm thinking no one is looking because they don't know anything about giving grapeseed oil

Personally, if something is labeled for external use only when there's a similar product that isn't, I'd assume they MEAN "external use only." But why not just use a customer service contact to ask them the question as to why it's marked for external use only? :dk:

I'm not sure why you wouldn't just want to use the product you know is safe and at the correct concentration...

Thanks LDG and mrsgreenjeans for your replies -- sorry I'm only now back to read them.

I'm exhausted and starting to panic -- need to get a whole bunch of things done before my fall semester jobs start, but am distracted, worried, and trying to control my emotions as I watch the URD symptoms increasingly return in the cat who's finally been tapered off antibiotics after 7 months. I've done everything I'm familiar with to boost his immune system in preparation for ending the Zithromycin one week ago: 

--switched them both to raw food, although it took 5 months before I made the switch (trying to keep diet a constant during the vet's diagnostic process, which still isn't conclusive)

--additional supplements: antioxidants, EFA, fermentable fiber and probiotics, dietary enzymes, (and now egg lecithin and SEB because my sweet little hoarding victim with pruritus has STILL not stopped his compulsive grooming. He came to me half naked, but now that his undercoat is finally growing in he's ingesting fur, and he recently coughed up some hairballs with bits of bone and these sticky, amber clumps of something -- mucous? but from his stomach??)

--play therapy/stimulation, low-stress environment

Despite some improvements in the past 2 months, after quitting the meds last week, the little drip at the end of his nose has now become the mucous-y yellow thread, and I need more help. I saw all the posts in the forum about GSE, and thought it might be a solution. 

I don't know what else to do. I need to help him boost that immune system. Listening to all the adventitious breath sounds and not being able to help brings me to the point of tears. If there's more I can be doing, I desperately need to find out what it is.  

I had a happy, healthy cat for 16 years; he was the best thing that ever happened to me. If I were to try and describe how special he was, and how truly in tune we were, it would sound like a tall tale. And in my ignorance of first-time cat "ownership," I paid him back with dry food. And he was playful and acted healthy right up until his first and only crash. The last four months of his life were spent nursing him through the acute renal failure, a fate he didn't deserve, and for which I'm to blame.  

The moment my sweet kitty got sick, I put a lot of things in my life on the back burner, started researching, and basically haven't stopped. 

When there was room in my heart for a new cat, I went to adopt one, was persuaded to take two, and was told that, except for the socialization/transitioning that would be necessary as a result of the abuse they suffered, they were fine and healthy, fully vetted, and shouldn't need anything before a 1-year checkup. It never occurred to me not to trust a rescue organization full of people who valued cats and gave their best energy to saving them. One week later my new kitties were at the vet; since then there have been 7 vet visits in as many months, plus tests, labs, meds, cultures, etc. I was emotionally unprepared for this (the old grief surges into new grief as I watch these lovely little guys try to deal, and I remember my fear and helplessness) but I am committed to my new babies. I love them.  And yet all this new, better knowledge I have now isn't curing them. It makes me feel a bit desperate at times -- I can't help it.

My first cat came to me out of the blue, a happy accident.  Until I went to consciously look for a new cat to adopt, I had no idea just how many generous people there are in the universe who knowingly rescue sick cats and struggle with their care. I also had no idea how high a percentage of adoptable cats start their lives with illnesses that will never be cured. 

LDG, my earlier post was long, but I tried to explain why I gravitated toward the stronger concentrate: because GSE doesn't *appear* to be an effective citricidal at lower concentrations. The info I have to support that notion isn't great -- one decent pubmed article and a bunch of amazon reviews -- so I came here, hoping that you guys who have more experience (and cats) than I would have input -- there were so many posts in this forum about grapefruit seed extract 5 or more years ago.  

I can't/won't (would be terrified to) give my cats anything I'm not reasonably sure about.  The only holistic vet in my area does not treat chronic conditions. 

I'll try to find time to call Nutribiotic, but I'm starting to fall dangerously behind on my job prep. Maybe it's the tiredness talking, but I'm a bit pessimistic about what the company will commit to saying.  I suppose a weak, non-citricidal version of GSE might be better than none at all. But then, why give anything to a cat that's not effective/beneficial/necessary? Their systems don't tolerate a lot of messing about.

Maybe I'll have the guts to start a new thread -- with the full/correct name for GSE -- but after I find the time to do more research and/or get some info from the company.

Thanks, both of you, for replying. I've read a lot of your posts, and know that you know what you're talking about. I really do appreciate that. 

OK, now that I understand the problem better, I have a suggestion that takes a totally different track. Your location says you're in Chicago - that covers a lot of territory. :lol3: But for your kitty overgrooming, I would definitely consider searching to see if you can find a D.V.M. additionally trained in Chinese Medicine. We rescued an older feral cat that is FIV+ and was creating bald spots and mowing his abdomen clean. He also had horrible, chronic diarrhea. Obviously in Western Medicine, this is treated as "allergies," and we did the whole food route. Nothing helped - much.

So I looked for a holistic vet trained additionally trained in "Chinese Medicine." This diagnoses/treats things from a completely different perspective. Based on my experience, I have to say that Chinese Medicine deals with immune-related problems FAR better than western medicine does. The vet's suggested herbal stuff for the diarrhea worked almost immediately (well, I had to slowly increase the dose, but it was immediately apparent it was going to work). And for the itchy/scratchies (which the other vets had determined were "behavioral" at that point), he didn't like the first stuff she had us try, but the second one he would eat, and within a week or so it was clear IT was going to work. Resolving that "extreme spleen Qi deficiency" takes more time. But ALL his hair had grown back within three months, and within 2 - 3 weeks he was hardly scratching, biting, nibbling at himself.

If you want to give it a try, you can search for a holistic vet and then include in the search "chinese medicine" (forget any specific type) in the search, here: http://www.ahvma.org

Thanks, LDG. I'm wiped at the moment, so will add to this later.  I explored a little on ahvma several months ago, but it looks like it is time to go at it with renewed focus. I have what I think is a very good vet in many ways, but some things about the "approach" (or lack of one) have become more perturbing, and have me looking for something more focused on true health and vitality for the long haul.  

I will definitely look for an eastern medicine vet. I know nothing about it so didn't look at those options when first on ahvma, but am very open to it.  Chicago is huge, true, but the part I can negotiate is pretty small. I'm in a city neighborhood which in many ways has fewer resources than a suburb.  Practically speaking, it needs to be fairly easy to get to my vet.

 As far as this cat is concerned, he came to me quite anxious/stressed although his breed is not genetically prone to stress -- quite the opposite. He was forced to occupy a medium cage with 2 other unaltered males, and it is presumed all 3 were being used for breeding. Instead of fighting, they developed compulsive overgrooming behavior and licked off all their fur. My guy and I are definitely bonded, but he sometimes shows signs of anxiousness, neediness, jumpiness...So there is still transition to be made from his early life experience, and there's no way I'm rushing toward the "kitty xanax" solution. The Guelph study revealed an alarming propensity for allopathic vets to erroneously assign the symptoms of idiopathic pruritus to psychogenic causes and prescribe an anti-depressant or anxiety drug. They were wrong more than 60% of the time. 

Assuming that my vet was correct in eliminating pulmonary or other organ defects as causes, there are still some physical causes of my guy's nibbling and scratching that are worth (re)considering:  a parasite that wasn't eliminated initially and which eluded the tests; asthmatic pyoderma, an environmental allergy (maybe I put something in the raw recipe he's allergic to and don't know it), OR a rare instance of hyperthyroidism. He also still has to have the PCR-URD test, which couldn't be done before now.

When I read your latest info, I immediately thought about pseudomonas, which is kind of like pneumonia in people (as far as I can tell), and sometimes takes a very long time to get rid of.  Has that ever been mentioned.  It's been coming up here on the forums lately.  Here's just one thread on it:

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/261531/botans-recovery-story-pseudomonas

Now, are BOTH kitties suffering from the same issue, or just one?