Need input - FIV+ and FIV- cats living together. Risks/Concerns

@catwoman707  has a point -- maybe it's an old injury.  I see you're in the southern US.  So am I and we've had some weird weather lately.  It was pretty warm and then that cold front with the wind came through late Sunday, so maybe that's it.

Yes, it did get very windy and cold,  and now it's going to be near 70 again and then drop again by the weekend. I know that he had a leg injury at one time but I thought it was his foot. It might have been his hip and he couldn't put his foot down.

I don't know if there are cat-safe heating pads, or maybe it's a matter of laying a towel or two on top of one, but perhaps offering him a place to lay that's warm might help.  I see there are heated cat beds but they are a little costly.

There are kitty heated beds that arent too expensive:

@kittyluv387   and @CatSnip404 , thanks for the suggestions and links.  Orville's doing a little better with that right now. I thought of putting one of those buckwheat pillows that can be microwaved (lightly for him) under his blanket, but haven't tried it yet.

Today, I had a bit of a scare. Orville and Chaucer got into it to the point I had to intervene and even then it was not as easy as just clapping my hands. I actually tapped Orville's tail with my foot.  There were tufts of fur on the floor. Poor Chaucer looked like he'd been combed with a rake and he had fur (Orville's?) in his mouth. Neither cat had been growling but there was a little noise so I was afraid Chaucer was getting hurt.  I'm so afraid Chaucer will contract FIV...still!  He's a much smaller cat- 3.5 pounds less than Orville and he's a lean-built cat too so he looks very skinny, especially  now with Orville around. I thto ought Henryetta was big compared to Chaucer but she weighs a little over two pounds less than Orville but she's stocky so I feel she could hold her own with him. Chaucer, I don't think so.

Orville and Chaucer are jockying for position, I know, but this is awful when I see fights, which, thankfully are few and far between. I've never found tufts of fur before though.  I think Chaucer is tired of Orville trying to take over things, and Henryetta is tired of him following her everywhere. I also think Orville is jealous of the relationship between Chaucer and Henryetta, but just last night the two boys were curled up next to me and Orville was resting his head on Chaucer's side and both were purring! Sibling behavior?

@Chaucer

@CatSnip404

OMG, beautiful photos of your boys!! Such good looking cats

"Jockeying for position!" Aww, it does sound like brother vs. brother behavior, cuddling together at one point and then fighting over something the next. Something I'm sure they'll get over. But yes, I know with the FIV it's a different level of worrying. I'm sure you were asked this before and sorry if I missed it, but do they each have their own things like toys, beds, etc? And if so, do you think it's making a difference with territorial issues? I do plan to get each cat their own things to be on the safe side (both territorial and FIV issues) but I wonder how well that would work since I'm sure they'll eat out of each others bowl, etc.  For my own curiosity, do you let them freely roam the house together during the night or do you lock them up separately? Or even when you leave them in the house alone?  I'm wondering, when I come to that point of letting BW free to roam in the house, will I have to keep them separated or if it's unnecessary.  Goodness, instead of giving you helpful advice, I just asked more questions...sorry!

HarleyQ143 said:

 
@Chaucer

@CatSnip404

OMG, beautiful photos of your boys!! Such good looking cats

"Jockeying for position!" Aww, it does sound like brother vs. brother behavior, cuddling together at one point and then fighting over something the next. Something I'm sure they'll get over. But yes, I know with the FIV it's a different level of worrying. I'm sure you were asked this before and sorry if I missed it, but do they each have their own things like toys, beds, etc? And if so, do you think it's making a difference with territorial issues? I do plan to get each cat their own things to be on the safe side (both territorial and FIV issues) but I wonder how well that would work since I'm sure they'll eat out of each others bowl, etc.  For my own curiosity, do you let them freely roam the house together during the night or do you lock them up separately? Or even when you leave them in the house alone?  I'm wondering, when I come to that point of letting BW free to roam in the house, will I have to keep them separated or if it's unnecessary.  Goodness, instead of giving you helpful advice, I just asked more questions...sorry!

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Chaucer, Orville and Henryetta share everything, but Orville does sleep in the pet bed with blanket that I had for him outside. Henryetta sleeps either in her bed hat she and the kittens had or on a piece of furniture, usually in my formal living room.   Chaucer sleeps wherever he wants and that is usually on the sofa in the den. They do share toys, and sometimes they eat with and after each other, and they have the same water bowl.  I have three litterboxes, but they use all three of them.   I don't separate them at night or when I leave, and really haven't much since Orville first moved in. I put Chaucer and Henryetta  in my room when I left the first few times but realized I didn't need to. When Henryetta moved in, I did put her in the guest room at night, but Orville seems to crave being near either a cat or me all the time.

I did something REALLY bad, and I feel so very guilty because I knew better.

This morning, Grey Kitty, a very large, rather aggressive cat known and disliked by most cats around here, showed up. I opened the front door and Grey Kitty came to the glass security door. He seemed calm and not growling as usual and is friendly with me through the glass, but his effect on Chaucer is always bad and Chaucer would turn on Henryetta.

Anyway, Grey Kitty is clearly Orville's sibling due to the size, tail and the same color tabby color but he has more white than Orville.  Orville was the only cat I've ever seen who could tolerate and not be bothered by Grey Kitty's constant growling. I watched them interact together outside when Orville was sleeping out there and they did nothing.  Grey Kitty appears neutered.

Anyway, I thought Orville might like to see him so I tapped on the door, but Henryetta came up, saw Grey Kitty and growled and then she hid under a piece of furniture. Orville walked up, Grey Kitty growled, Orville backed up and went off. Chaucer, however, was in a state and attacked Orville - I mean a full-on, fluffed tail, loud, biting attack. Fur comes off Orville pretty easily since he's been in the house. Orville ran off and hid under my bed. I am devastated (and feel very guilty for even allowing this to occur). Orville finally came out when I went back there and closed the door. He has wet places and loose fur where Chaucer bit at him. I am glad it wasn't the reverse because Orville could do a lot of damage to Chaucer, including transmitting FIV.  I get that Chaucer may be an aggressive cat when provoked. Orville is a gentle cat who isn't a fighter. I am so upset that I caused a big rift between the two who have been getting along well.

 I think that Orville will forgive Chauser. I think a little Feliway might help bring a little calm back into the house. The fact that Orville did not fight back speaks volumes of his personality, what a sweet boy he is. There might be an upside to this, maybe the struggle for dominance has been settled. Please let us know how things are progressing 

Zed Xyzed said:

You
 I think that Orville will forgive Chauser. I think a little Feliway might help bring a little calm back into the house. The fact that Orville did not fight back speaks volumes of his personality, what a sweet boy he is. There might be an upside to this, maybe the struggle for dominance has been settled. Please let us know how things are progressing 

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I hope so, Zed.  Chaucer was in the window a few minutes ago and Orville jumped up and stepped over him to get to the other side of the window.  Chaucer jumped down. At least Orville will maybe think twice about bullying Chaucer.  I never think of Chaucer as aggressive, but I think he does have that streak sometimes. He acted up badly at the vet when they had to keep him for the day - hissing and baring teeth at them from his cage. He's normally not like that at the vet or at home.

It's taken me a while to recognize that Orville's fur I see on the floor and rug has to do with him being in a warmer environment since he is no longer outside in the cold.  At least I hope that is the what the fur loss is from. His lower back is very sensitive to my touch as is his back hip. He was chewing on his lower back the other day.  He doesn't have fleas and he doesn't limp.  I think I'm a little cautious because of the FIV.

Chaucer said:

It's taken me a while to recognize that Orville's fur I see on the floor and rug has to do with him being in a warmer environment since he is no longer outside in the cold.  At least I hope that is the what the fur loss is from. His lower back is very sensitive to my touch as is his back hip. He was chewing on his lower back the other day.  He doesn't have fleas and he doesn't limp.  I think I'm a little cautious because of the FIV.

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I'm glad they've settled down after their tiff earlier. Might actually be good for Orville to know his place.

As for his fur, I agree that it's because of the change to inside temperatures and humidity levels that's causing it. My one cat gets quite dry and flaky fur in winter and my skin is very tight and dry too. I need humidifiers on to help. Does he let you brush him?

@pushylady    I think it might have been good for Orville to learn Chaucer isn't going to back down too. Chaucer has been doing so up until today.   Chaucer is now nipping at Orville's heels a bit but they aren't acting aggressive at all -the cats aren't acting aggressive. I don't mean the heels are acting aggressive!   The behavior is a change from Orville swatting Chaucer's back leg as he walks past.  Orville really is a gentle giant, I'm thinking.  I do not understand why Grey Kitty is so hated/feared though. I've had issues with him for well over a year now when he comes round. He incites/excites Chaucer who used to turn on Henryetta and the fights were a bit fierce between them with loud cries and Henryetta eventually running off. It's the FIV and Orville's size that has me concerned about tiffs and fights. 

Chaucer said:

 
@pushylady    I think it might have been good for Orville to learn Chaucer isn't going to back down too. Chaucer has been doing so up until today.   Chaucer is now nipping at Orville's heels a bit but they aren't acting aggressive at all -the cats aren't acting aggressive. I don't mean the heels are acting aggressive!  

The behavior is a change from Orville swatting Chaucer's back leg as he walks past.  Orville really is a gentle giant, I'm thinking.  I do not understand why Grey Kitty is so hated/feared though. I've had issues with him for well over a year now when he comes round. He incites/excites Chaucer who used to turn on Henryetta and the fights were a bit fierce between them with loud cries and Henryetta eventually running off. It's the FIV and Orville's size that has me concerned about tiffs and fights. 

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Chaucer is showing he is not going to submit easily to being under Orville's position much, while 2 cats can not be on the same level, often times there is a closeness between 2 cats too, and will appear that they are equals, but every now and then only you because of being so up close and personal, will see an occasional display that one is over the other.

Generally speaking, cats establishing their rank doesn't involve downright fighting, no. It's swatting, food priority, hissing, chasing one off of the spot they are napping on, spots on the bed with you, and so on.

I'm sure that every one of us would have the very same concerns as you are, some may not even give a pos cat the chance to become a family member, and will take some time to get an actual comfortable and trusting feeling that they are okay together, unsupervised.

Just remember though, even in wrestling/brawls among cats who reside together, they don't give bites that will be deep puncture/bleeding wounds.

This is among unneutered males, virtually exclusively.

Housemates won't fight like that as they are not driven by hormones.

It will def. take some time before you are confident that your kids won't get Orville's fiv, the part I love best is that once you have that, you will always be one who 'gets it' about mixing pos and neg cats together, and will become an advocate from your experience, as others I know do, and while it takes a personal experience to gain that confidence, others who see or know about your positive experience will hopefully spread the word, if nothing else making people understand that it really can work out just fine, and maybe even give it a try

@catwoman707   I wouldn't have even considered adopting an FIV + cat before this.  I saw them and thought they would end up costing a fortune in medical bills and would be sick all the time.  Thanks to you and the others here, and my experience with Orville, I've learned that is not so and would not be averse to adopting an FIV + kitty, and I'll be letting others know it is okay.

It's just going to take a while before I'm truly comfortable with any wrestling and tiffy encounters between Orville and Chaucer.  This morning, Orville has been steering clear of Chaucer for some reason.   Grey Kitty showed up so I immediately put Chaucer in a bedroom and shut the door. Orville, who ignored GK when they were outside, suddenly ran and hid under the sofa.  I wish I knew what it was about that cat which upsets and scares other cats.  It's a neutered male from what I can tell and he's not afraid of people. He's obviously somebody's cat because he comes right to the door, "sniffs" my fingers through the glass, and will play through the glass with a ribbon. He's HUGE. In fact, he makes Orville look small to me today. Orville is 12 pounds 10 oz and this cat has to be pushing 15-16 pounds and is long. He has the same tail and coloring as Orville so it may be that he and Orville are brothers and lived at the same house. Maybe he ran Orville off. Anyway, here are two photos of Orville not long after I started feeding him. As you can see, he looks like a different cat now, so if he did run off from someone's home, it's because he liked me better!

He looks like a different cat, I think the thick winter coat and some good food makes him looker beefier now. He is a good looking boy, and from your stories a really sweet guy 

@Zed Xyzed He does look different. In the photos, you can almost see where the gouge in his leg is- the right one the way we are looking.

There's a lot of tiffing going on today, and it appears that Chaucer - the tall, very lean, 9 -pound wonder- is emerging the victor with Orville running to hide. My guess is that Chaucer tolerated it for the first two weeks and then took action. I don't like all of this as Orville is now unsettled with his ally "fighting" him and his dream girl hissing and growling at him sometimes and at others letting him get closer. Poor Orvie!  He's also very sensitive on that lower back and one hip. All the jumping on furniture may be causing him some issues with an old injury. Frankly, I don't think he is much more than 2 so that means he isn't Henryetta's litter mate.  I forgot to add that Orville lets me rub his big exposed belly now and rub his big paws - he is definitely someone's former pet. I just wonder what happened and how he ended up looking like he does in those photos.

He looks like a stray in those photos to me. An abandoned one. Kind of skinny and frail looking and not the slender but muscular and healthy look.

These pictures look like Spring. I'd been feeding him since sometime in December so this was a few months AFTER he'd been eating here. I was thinking that he looked bigger back in that December/January, and he wasn't coming quite so regularly as he eventually did, but it may be he had shed his winter coat by this point.  He was either getting food somewhere else or must have been skinny under the winter coat. Very sad that people abandon their pets.  I now have two abandoned cats. Henryetta was one, but I knew from whence she came. She would sit on the end of that driveway across the street, which is why I noticed her. She wasn't quite as skinny as Orville, but she started dining with me regularly only six weeks after those people moved away. He looks like he was scrounging for food, and he was clearly in fights. It also may have been shortly after he contracted FIV.

Orville ran out the back door this morning.  My neighbor's two were eating  little and when I came back in, out he went before I could get the door closed. They don't fight with each other but when I called, he trotted down the driveway, took one look at the two sitting on the carport and ran off to the back yard. I feel he will be back, but it's worrisome as I will be leaving in a few hours. He was getting so used to the inside and never showed too much of a desire to go out, but boy is he perky right now!

He probably just wants to "secure" his territory.