Caesarian / Orphan Kittens

It died!

Yeah it was swallowing the drops. Was being super careful too using a 1ml syringe in the side of the mouth!

These ones have all been suckling for around 10 minutes every 2 hours since. Shes cleaning them when i smear butter. Do i need to be supplementing if they are all suckling or just if not?

Are you able to weigh them? Then you would know if they are getting enough. It's the only way to really know. Can you obtain a scale?

I am sorry about the one who died. It's a tough road for preemies. You are doing a great job though!

I will get a scale sorted tomorrow! Do i need to be supplementing them if definitely sucking then?

Probably not if they are constantly sucking as you say every 10 minutes, and not in distress, or crying constantly, or lethargic; but the only way to know for sure is by weighing them, preferably in grams since they are so tiny. It's very important!

Two things not yet mentioned are that (1) the mama cat's milk has changed and is now probably less concentrated because their milk changes as the kittens grow and she has raised her own litter for six weeks.  I think it becomes more watered down because the kittens need more water as they grow.  The tiny babies need much less water and more nutrients.  We do the same thing mixing formula for orphan kittens, make it more concentrated when they are tiny and more dilute as they grow larger.  Nature does it perfectly of course.   (2) Also, since these babies did not get their mother's colostrum (which is concentrated with antibodies and gives the intestinal flora a boost) in the first 48 hours, they could use a substitute called BENE-BAC which gives them the intestinal flora they need to digest milk.  Some of the kitten formulas prepared today do include that, but some do not!  Goats milk includes that naturally.

If you could manage to get the big babies off the mama for nursing by swapping out litters, that would be very helpful.  In the meantime, you should supplement the tiny kittens with more concentrated formula, whole raw goats milk would be ideal if you could find it (know a local goat farmer?) and if not, most supermarkets do carry goat's milk fresh in the dairy section, although it is pasteurized.  Bene-bac can be obtained from some feed stores or through Amazon or pet supply places.  We give it to all our orphans.

When litters are different ages, what I have done is allow the little ones to nurse heavily while the mother is full of milk, usually until they pretty much fall asleep.  Meanwhile I supplement the larger ones (who take to bottles readily) before giving them back to the mom as I take the little ones away to nap elsewhere.  This way the bigger kittens are full of formula when they get to mama cat, she does all the cleaning and potty care (YAY!) and they get the comfort of sucking even though mom is pretty much empty.  This stimulates her milk flow without depleting her milk or leaving the big babies hungry.  They suck because they like to suck, not because they are hungry.  Then I take those guys away for a nap elsewhere too and give mom a break from everyone, allowing her to fill up with milk.  Then I bring the smaller babies back to her and the cycle continues.  As long as she never hears babies crying in a place other than her nest, she's cool with it. 

So went to shops. Only thing could get tonight was whole goats milk not raw. Gave them some and two are sucking syringe well. The other ones slightly weaker but suckling on mother fine. Their skin is quite purple red. Is this down to being premature?

Thanks for tip about making it stronger i didnt know!

Just checking in after being out.  Glad you got goats milk.  Glad they are taking to it.  Yes, supplement ALL of them because remember what they are getting from mama is formulated for older kittens at the moment.  I am not sure if it ever changes.  We have mamas that have nursed multiple litters of orphans but mostly the babies are not newborns, they are at least a week old.  I have raised a litter of newborn ferals from birth to adulthood but it's hard, and physically they turned out well, but emotionally they could have used a mother cat to teach them about being cats. 

In an earlier post you said they were sucking 10 minutes every 2 hours which is not normally enough.  Newborn kittens nurse almost constantly for the first few days, although most of what they are getting is colostrum and they have to work really hard for that.  She probably has a lot of milk still so they are getting full faster than most newborns do.  When we are feeding orphans, we feed every 2 hours for the first couple of days, but we don't feed a lot, afraid of them vomiting and inhaling, better then to underfeed.  They will definitely cry when hungry just like human babies do (but much more appealing!)

I noticed when I was out at Pet Supermarket getting special food for my oldest cat that there is a new (or new to me) powdered kitten formula by PetAg called "PET LAC Kitten Replacement Formula" and it has the intestinal flora stuff like BeneBac in it already.  I did not see any "KMR" as such, just the Pet Lac in powder form.  This may represent a change in PetAg's offerings, or it may be that Pet Supermarket just prefers to carry that instead of KMR.  I will have to look into it so as to be "fashion forward" in terms of kitten formulas people can choose from. 

red top rescue Good catch - I thought she said nursing every 10 minutes, but I went back and checked and she did say for 10 minutes every two hours, which is not nearly enough.

I noticed the new formula at Pet Supermarket recently also, and saw one by KMR for infants that said it had colostrum in it. Wonder if it's the same one?

luckykitty said:

So went to shops. Only thing could get tonight was whole goats milk not raw. Gave them some and two are sucking syringe well. The other ones slightly weaker but suckling on mother fine. Their skin is quite purple red. Is this down to being premature?

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That is common, I think its mainly because the fur is thinner on prematures.  Possibly the skin is a little thinner too.

Proceed to seek after the raw, if you can get it its even better.   Even if whole goat milk works nicely.

Hi sorry for late reply.

Well another one passed away on me. Went downhill quite quickly. I got another mother cat with 2 week old kittens and now the other 2 are doing amazing. She wouldnt take to them and kept hissing so i rolled them in her poo and they have been flying since. No substituting or anything. Shes taking care of them so well and any squeal or movement away from her shes carrying them back by the scruff of their necks. Both have gained weight and skin is no longer purple.

Sorry you lost another one, but thank goodness these two now have a foster mama! Should be smooth sailing from here! Good thinking to put the mom's scent on them so she would accept them.

The new mama looks like a female version of my Grey Boy.  Very clever of you to roll them in her poo.  Disgusting but it worked!

So.. another problem.

She has been fussing over the tortoiseshell one since yesterday. Its belly has swollen up tonight and its bum is very swollen with puss. I cleaned it and stimulated it but cant get it to poo. Shes been cleaning it frequently so maybe it already has. Shes been giving this kitten frequent attention the past 2 days. It was noisy last night and quiet tonight. Its feeding fine and moving around loads.

Ideas again? :/

I want to think that maybe this kitten's system is reacting to having been on a formula diet for a few feedings, and is now on mom's milk, and he is bloated going through the adjustment. Maybe the discharge is mucous and his system is clearing things out. His bum may be sore because the mom is licking it quite frequently.

You could pick up some simethicone in the infant section of the pharmacy, and give him just a drop or two to help relieve the bloating. It is considered safe for cats by vets. A bit of olive oil rubbed on his bum might give the soreness a relief.

The mom should be stimulating and cleaning the babies for you.

Keep an eye on him and let us know how he's doing.

She is cleaning it loads and it makes me think maybe shes cleaning it too much as she doesnt stop. Would it scald it if she continues to rub constantly? Is it serious or should it go down?

How badly red, raw, and/or swollen is it?

You may need to remove him from her between feedings for a bit. You could try a little Desitin ointment on his bum too.

Mom knows something is wrong and she's trying to "lick it better".