7 month Tonkinese with constant runny tum - seems to be dietary?

Hi there,

I'm sure many of you here have experience with this problem and I'm looking for some help as I'm struggling to find an answer..

I adopted a Tonkinese chap 4 weeks ago and although he seems to be a happy, energetic and otherwise completely healthy cat, since day one he has had a fairly runny tummy - not full blown watery diarrhoea but very mushy and smelly and to make matters worse, he gets it all over his back legs every time and flicks/spreads all over my flat!

His previous owner fed him whiskas kitten, both wet and dry, and so immediately I thought it was just because he was on rubbish food! (It transpires that he had been this way since she bought him.. she didnt think to tell me at the time, pfft)

I did some research and my friend also recommended getting some grain-free, high quality / high meat content food from zooplus.co.uk (I'm from UK) and so I ordered some Animonda Carny Kitten tins and some Royal Canin Kitten Digestive Health and slowly weaned him over to this.

He certainly enjoyed this more but it didnt help so I took him to the vets, and they suggested feeding him dry food only as 'some cats can't handle a lot of meat' Which to me sounded odd after what I'd read about cats being obligate carnivores.Cant say I like the idea of a dry diet only.

Nevertheless I took their advice and tried him on just the royal canin dry for a week along with some fortiflora powder, but this just made it even worse - he had proper diarrhoea with mucus and blood and was going up to 4 times a day.

So I thought, sod this, and I stopped the dry food altogether after realising that the royal canin still contained grains ..

I fed him plain boiled chicken breast for a couple of days and low and behold it completely bunged him up! I started to worry when he hadnt pooped in 2 days, thought he might have the opposite problem so i did feed him a spoonful of dry to see if it would get things moving, and right after, he did a nice small solid poo with no mess.

So I thought hurrah, I've nailed it, he obviously has a grain intolerance - Ill start giving him the animonda carny again along with the chicken breast, slowly adding it, and he should be fine..?!

But no.. it has now been a week and I have slowly removed the chicken so that hes just on the animonda carny and his tummy is getting funny again - not the pale, watery poo like before but it is quite soft and there is also some fresh blood in it

I have noted that animonda carny has a high beef content and im wondering if maybe its just too rich but what are the chances that he is both intolerant to grains AND certain meat?!

Is there a grain free cat food I can get in the UK that maybe just contains chicken or white meat ?!

If I switch back to just chicken breast surely he won't be getting everything he needs, ideally i really want him to be on an actual complete cat food and not homecooked or raw.

I should also mention that he has had several stool samples tested for parasites and infections and all have come back negative.

I spoke to the vet again today and she suggested going back to chicken breast, with potato, for a week. Then start adding vegetables in. But for me this really would be a last resort as it seems more expensive and time consuming.. its not that I wouldn't try anything for him,or that I'm too lazy or don't care, but I would much rather find a cat food that he can handle i live alone and cooking up various veggies each night as well as my own dinner would be inconvenient (im not a veggie lover lol)

Any comments or suggestions would be really appreciated. its the first time I have ever owned a cat and I have to say it has not really been a brilliant start. I just want him to be healthy and happy and not have to suffer with me cleaning his legs every time he uses the litter box as it is very stressful for him.

Thanks

Bailey

@pawpawkuma

An easier experiment that doing the chicken thing again would be to buy human baby food, stage one (stage one only!) chicken flavor and see what happens.  If she reacts well to this there may be some sort of food intolerance with many types of commercial cat food.  You could the start looking at a commercial raw diet like Stella and Chewies which has the benefit of being pressure pasteurized, or possibly a novel protein limited ingredient commercial food.

Thanks for your reply - I never thought of trying baby food!

I have had a look for commercial raw food available in the UK (to order online as thats really the only option) but its just so expensive and i really dont think i can afford that. As he's into chicken I'd ideally want him eating cooked chicken too.

It's so frustrating not knowing what exactly it is thats upsetting his tummy.

What do you mean by a novel protein limited ingredient commercial food? A canned food that has minimal ingredients and only one type of meat?

pawpawkuma said:

Thanks for your reply - I never thought of trying baby food!

I have had a look for commercial raw food available in the UK (to order online as thats really the only option) but its just so expensive and i really dont think i can afford that. As he's into chicken I'd ideally want him eating cooked chicken too.

It's so frustrating not knowing what exactly it is thats upsetting his tummy.

What do you mean by a novel protein limited ingredient commercial food? A canned food that has minimal ingredients and only one type of meat?

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Hi

Baby food is often used temporarily for sensitive stomachs, stage one only, but long term its not fully balanced nutritionally.

A novel protein diet is used with cats who have a sometimes more serious condition called inflammatory bowel syndrome.  These foods have a protein the cat has never been exposed to like venison or rabbit, and usually only one carb like peas or potatoes. Vets can proscribe it and quality pet stores sell it OTC as well.

Hill's also makes a sensitive stomach food and if you google "sensitive stomach cat food" you will get more options.

Ah I see, I wonder if my cat does have that condition.

Ive looked online and ordered a few sensitive foods to try.

But to my dismay he has had a bout of diarrhoea this morning despite only being on plain boiled chicken which had seemed to help.. Im just so utterly disheartened as I thought I was getting somewhere. But im back to square one.

Were any of the stool samples sent to an outside lab for more comprehensive testing than can be done at the vet's? If not, that should be your next step. Ask that the sample be tested "for everything".

Do you have a microwave? Cooking up a small amount of potatoes isn't a big deal if you do.

Our cat has Inflammatory Bowel Disorder (and was infected with enterohemorrhagic E coli when we adopted him, which is why I recommend testing at an outside lab). Changing his diet to one unique protein per day plus either potatoes, parsnips or turnips has made a huge difference, so your vet's recommendation is quite reasonable.

I know that feeling of discouragement - we dealt with the problem for months before the diarrhea disappeared - but you'll eventually find a solution. Hang in there for his sake!

I also encourage you to ask for an outside lab to test the stool sample. We have dealt with giardia. My vet assured me that the cat was negative after an in house test, but I insisted the sample be sent out since I knew the in house tests were not sensitive to giardia. It can be difficult to diagnose. When the results came back, it was positive. We treated all the animals and no more problems. Some of the symptoms (at least in my cat) were runny, very smelly movements. Cat acted fine.

On the testing issue, insist on a PCR test.  It is definitive for what it is testing for.  If that is negative you might want to consider an ultrasound.

See http://www.petmd.com/cat/conditions/digestive/c_ct_diarrhea_chronic

Thanks for your replies everyone and for sharing your experiences

The samples did go away to an external lab rather than in-house (took over a week to hear back!) but i have no idea what they were actually tested for.

I have read about giardia, although for some reason i really have an incling that its a dietary issue rather than a disease as his bowel movements have changed a lot depending on what ive fed him - if it was ibd or a parasite wouldnt it be fairly consistent diarrhoea?

Today i have bought some 100% pure pumpkin (libbys) and frozen up portions which i will add to his meals every day. Just another thing to tick off the list to try i suppose!

Obviously this is horrible for him as he must have suffered with this all his life.. But honestly whats most frustrating for me is the mess. Its just mentally draining listening out for the litter tray day and night and getting home from work dreading what awaits, inspecting the whole place for poop stains and cleaning up my flat and his legs which he hates. Ive placed throws on my bed and sofas and on the hallway carpet to help at least, thank god my lounge bathroom and kitchen are all hard floors! Doing this every day is wearing me down though and its only been a month.. how on earth do people cope with this as a long term issue?!
My family are saying i should rehome him but i love him so much and how could i do that to him? Would anyone even want to take a cat with chronic diarrhoea?! Someone has to look after the poor mite. Its a really difficult situation

jcat said:

Were any of the stool samples sent to an outside lab for more comprehensive testing than can be done at the vet's? If not, that should be your next step. Ask that the sample be tested "for everything".

Do you have a microwave? Cooking up a small amount of potatoes isn't a big deal if you do.

Our cat has Inflammatory Bowel Disorder (and was infected with enterohemorrhagic E coli when we adopted him, which is why I recommend testing at an outside lab). Changing his diet to one unique protein per day plus either potatoes, parsnips or turnips has made a huge difference, so your vet's recommendation is quite reasonable.

I know that feeling of discouragement - we dealt with the problem for months before the diarrhea disappeared - but you'll eventually find a solution. Hang in there for his sake!

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Jcat, im interested to know what you feed your boy, what meats does yours eat and do you feed raw or cooked? A lot of novel protein suggestions are things like duck and rabbit but thats just too expensive here. Do you buy from a butchers or a supermarket?

pawpawkuma said:

I have read about giardia, although for some reason i really have an incling that its a dietary issue rather than a disease as his bowel movements have changed a lot depending on what ive fed him - if it was ibd or a parasite wouldnt it be fairly consistent diarrhoea?

Today i have bought some 100% pure pumpkin (libbys) and frozen up portions which i will add to his meals every day. Just another thing to tick off the list to try i suppose!

Obviously this is horrible for him as he must have suffered with this all his life.. But honestly whats most frustrating for me is the mess. Its just mentally draining listening out for the litter tray day and night and getting home from work dreading what awaits, inspecting the whole place for poop stains and cleaning up my flat and his legs which he hates. Ive placed throws on my bed and sofas and on the hallway carpet to help at least, thank god my lounge bathroom and kitchen are all hard floors! Doing this every day is wearing me down though and its only been a month.. how on earth do people cope with this as a long term issue?!
My family are saying i should rehome him but i love him so much and how could i do that to him? Would anyone even want to take a cat with chronic diarrhoea?! Someone has to look after the poor mite. Its a really difficult situation

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IBD can vary quite a bit -- our previous cat most likely had it, undiagnosed, for some years and had on-and-off vomiting, runs, and bloody mucous. Looking back, I don't know what might have caused it because our vets were so unhelpful in diagnosing it when it began, though of course part of the problem was the "on-and-off".

It's great that you're coming into this early. I know that "mentally draining" feeling and dread of opening the door all too well. It was horrible, particularly because we'd had our cat for many years and loved her so much. And your cat is adorable!

As for your problem with the little guy. Setting aside the possibility of parasites, a few thoughts on diet:

-Pumpkin is a great thing to try. We sometimes feed our cats chicken shreds with pumpkin in them -- they're Weruva, I'm not sure they're available in the UK but perhaps you could get something similar.

-Our cats are Siamese mixes and our vet told us any cats that are Siamese or part Siamese are more inclined to have digestive issues. We had some problems with runs (that pumpkin seemed to miraculously clear up), vomiting, and a lot of flatulence. I'm 99% sure it was potato that caused vomiting and flatulence in one cat so definitely watch your little chap (what's his name? ) if you try serving him chicken dinners with potato!

-It really helped to keep a food and litter box diary when our previous cat was in her last months. I was still working on trial and error but at least I could finally connect food to symptoms or improvements: grain-free canned foods, with some frozen raw food, certainly helped her as did, I'm pretty sure, cutting out fish. I suspect grains were her biggest problem.

-Have you tried food with only turkey? Just a though since chicken sounded like a near miss...

I'm sorry that's probably not particularly helpful but at least know that I understand what you're going through -- it's horribly frustrating.

Hi lisa,

Thanks for this - i had no idea about the siamese being prone to problems and of course tonkinese cats are technically burmese x siamese..such wonderful cats though

Thank you, his name is Leo and hes the sweetest most loving baby. Going to the vets tomorrow for his snip & chip bless him!

Ill see how the pumpkin experiment goes..would feel like a miracle if it worked.

Eek, tonight i did actually add some potato to his dinner so its a waiting game now.

I havent tried plain turkey..thing is when i first got him he was on whiskas kitten pouches and they come in all flavours, chicken, duck, cod, tuna, duck, rabbit, beef..so im really struggling to think what he HASNT been exposed to (Having said that theres hardly any meat in whiskas anyway..!)

I ordered some MACs sensitive lamb and MACs sensitive chicken the other day from a site called the happy kitty company plus some Catz Finefood and Miamor ragout royal from zooplus just to try some more brands that are grain free and beef free but the fact he had a funny tummy earlier on plain chicken is making me doubt they'll help

Its early days and i know all this switching food cant be helping either. Is it worth asking the vets just to give him some treatments for POSSIBLE issues without a diagnosis or is that a bad/pointless idea?

Bailey, we didn't know about Siamese cats and their stomachs/digestion, either, when we adopted ours, either, but they're great cats, so I have no regrets whatsoever. No matter how high-maintenance they are!

Leo might be a perfectly happy cat eating potato... one of our cats loves to eat potato pieces she finds, uhm, wherever... but her sister gets sick from it. That's the problem with so many of the food sensitivities: they're very individual. And one small ingredient, like carrageenan or potato used just as a thickener can cause big problems in some cats. I'd probably focus on trying to eliminate non-meat ingredients first, particularly as you haven't noticed, have you, that any meat seems worse for Leo. (I guess our easy time eliminating potato and carrageenan for our cats makes me hopeful some easy fix might work for you, too... even though it's not super-easy since those additive ingredients are pretty ubiquitous in US foods!)

All that said, maybe one of the foods you ordered will help! That's the other thing: sometimes help comes from the oddest things.

I would definitely ask the vet tomorrow about possible treatments, probiotics, and even, perhaps, about the possibility of fluids for dehydration.

Good luck to both you and Leo tomorrow!

I feed a prescription canned German brand, Vet-Concept, in duck, goat, kangaroo, reindeer, rabbit and horse. We started out with kangaroo or rabbit and gradually added the others. That brand isn't available in the UK. However, I've also had good luck with the Catz veal. Mogli seemed to do okay on the Mac's Sensitive at first, but started vomiting occasionally after eating it, so I stopped it. He's got food allergies, so that doesn't mean your boy wouldn't do well on the Mac's.

Raw food isn't an option for Mogli, as it goes straight through him. He does get a couple of meals of home cooked a week - usually roast beef or pork - but it's not balanced with supplements because it's a small percentage of his diet.

Thanks guys, hearing your own experiences is really useful and encouraging (and somewhat comforting as I'm not alone with this)

It makes me feel like theres a chance I can tackle this and gives me ideas to try. Ive bought some turkey today to try.

However today is a horrible day, I have just bought him back from the vets after being neutered and the poor thing is in a state. He has been vomiting awfully and has had a bout of diarrhoea which i am panicking about as its all over his 'wound' and i don't know how thoroughly i can clean him up with a cloth.

He has a cone on as he was apparently chewing and when he was sick he was holding his head UP and almost gargling on his sick it was so awful to see.

Also, It turns out that he has had tapeworm all along too. How on earth they missed that in the stool sample tests... I had also used bob martins spot-on dewormer on him a couple of weeks ago but I won't be using that again! They said that during the procedure one just came wriggling out of him!! I cant believe it.

They gave him a worming tablet im assuming about 4-5 hours ago but now because of the vomiting im worried he wont have absorbed it

Leo is confined to my small bathroom at the moment purely due to the mess but hes really unhappy poor guy.

I think for the next few days ill need to focus on his recovery and then I'll start experimenting with his diet. Im praying for him so much.

pawpawkuma said:

Thanks guys, hearing your own experiences is really useful and encouraging (and somewhat comforting as I'm not alone with this)

It makes me feel like theres a chance I can tackle this and gives me ideas to try. Ive bought some turkey today to try.

However today is a horrible day, I have just bought him back from the vets after being neutered and the poor thing is in a state. He has been vomiting awfully and has had a bout of diarrhoea which i am panicking about as its all over his 'wound' and i don't know how thoroughly i can clean him up with a cloth.

He has a cone on as he was apparently chewing and when he was sick he was holding his head UP and almost gargling on his sick

it was so awful to see.

Also, It turns out that he has had tapeworm all along too. How on earth they missed that in the stool sample tests... I had also used bob martins spot-on dewormer on him a couple of weeks ago but I won't be using that again! They said that during the procedure one just came wriggling out of him!! I cant believe it.

They gave him a worming tablet im assuming about 4-5 hours ago but now because of the vomiting im worried he wont have absorbed it

Leo is confined to my small bathroom at the moment purely due to the mess but hes really unhappy poor guy.

I think for the next few days ill need to focus on his recovery and then I'll start experimenting with his diet. Im praying for him so much.

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Sorry to hear, sending you good vibes. I'm dealing with pretty severe IBD in a 12 year old Tonk (have been for a long time). There's a thread about it too.

Eshans, i saw your thread about your poor girl (she is adorable by the way, such a pretty colour)

I cannot imagine how you have dealt with it for so long. It sounds far worse than what im facing and i really hope she will improve, it sounds like youve tried EVERYTHING i mean the list of meds youve tried, i cannot wrap my head around it.

Have you found any ways to help keep your house cleaner e.g sheets/throws ? It is utterly depressing wiping up poop everyday from floors, even on occassions walls and worst of all my cat himself. I bought pet wipes from the pet shop and have sometimes bathed his feet in the sink when hes quite soiled (hes not even longhaired!!) but he hates it!

pawpawkuma said:

Eshans, i saw your thread about your poor girl (she is adorable by the way, such a pretty colour)

I cannot imagine how you have dealt with it for so long. It sounds far worse than what im facing and i really hope she will improve, it sounds like youve tried EVERYTHING i mean the list of meds youve tried, i cannot wrap my head around it.

Have you found any ways to help keep your house cleaner e.g sheets/throws ? It is utterly depressing wiping up poop everyday from floors, even on occassions walls and worst of all my cat himself. I bought pet wipes from the pet shop and have sometimes bathed his feet in the sink when hes quite soiled (hes not even longhaired!!) but he hates it!

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Thank you, yeah, she's a cute one.

I know. People are marveled when I tell them, but it hasn't been that bad the whole time. Through phases, things would improve, then turn south, and then get really bad (hence almost making some very tough decisions) but then they turn around again.

Since her stuff is usually regulated to the hardwood floor, it's not that bad to clean..but yea i can't say i like it ha. Enormously frustrating at times. I just use standard cleaner and get it off. She usually doesn't get it on her, but just really her tail sometimes. Sorry to hear your boy is having a messy few days. 

In a sense im lucky that mine (so far touch wood) always goes in his tray but the problem is he steps in it and it sticks to him then it gets spread and flicked all over the place. I thought getting him a larger tray would help but it didnt, also tried various litters but i think if his stools were normal/firm the problem would be lessened.

Im not sure what is worse, finding large amounts in one place of your home or small subtle stains dotted around everywhere. Either way, it sucks

Thanks for your encouragement and as a fellow tonk owner i really wish you luck with your girl too. Sounds like youve both had a really rough ride, but she is lucky to have such a caring and patient owner!

pawpawkuma said:

In a sense im lucky that mine (so far touch wood) always goes in his tray but the problem is he steps in it and it sticks to him then it gets spread and flicked all over the place. I thought getting him a larger tray would help but it didnt, also tried various litters but i think if his stools were normal/firm the problem would be lessened.

Im not sure what is worse, finding large amounts in one place of your home or small subtle stains dotted around everywhere. Either way, it sucks

Thanks for your encouragement and as a fellow tonk owner i really wish you luck with your girl too. Sounds like youve both had a really rough ride, but she is lucky to have such a caring and patient owner!

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Ha, yes, it becomes an unfunny comedy at some points. I also get the spots too because she'll go and then forget to finish   

You are welcome. It sucks to deal with but at least knowing that other people can relate helps ever so slightly. And thanks for the nice words, Tonks are amazing cats and i just want nothing more than for her to be normal someday!