Experience with Feline's Pride

gbin- I had just read last night ( on the fb site) that the owners remained the same. I have never purchased from FP so I can't remember the names but I believe someone else said that they were a brother and sister. Anyway, I read that they closed down in NY and would no longer have the same folks in charge of customer service but the ownership remained the same.

 If ownership has changed, they have sure done a lousy job at retaining business.

I just went back to the FP Facebook page. Somebody is responding to peoples comments.as of 2 days ago. Boy, I would not do business with the at all. Many people have complaints about not receiving food, about receiving food weeks after they should, spoiled food etc. In every case I see FP responding with obvious lies. They say to person after person that they have tried to make things right but somehow the customer was not being helpful and they ( FP_ are confused....they also blame their previous staff, and the delivery services. No way, you can't have that many complaints and blame everyone but yourself. They stop very close to the line of accusing their customers of lying about the problems. Bad business. I am in business and the customer is ALWAYS right. Even when they are wrong.

gbin said:

Thanks for the additional advice, LDG.  My wife and I will look into it.  We're certainly intrigued by Hare Today - and especially by the numerous recommendations we've seen for them here at The Cat Site - but were hoping to find something that's complete without us having to mix a bunch of stuff in.  Plus we weren't entirely sure how to decide what exactly to mix in.  We're still making up our minds about that and feeding Primal in the meantime.

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It depends on what you buy from Hare Today. If you buy a grind (meat, bone, and organs) you then follow a recipe and add in the necessary supplements (http://catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood is a good one) or you add in a pre-mix (such as Alnutrin for meat and bone). If you buy boneless, you also either follow a recipe and add in the supplements or add in a pre-mix for boneless meats (like TC Feline). Some people buy both grinds and boneless and do a prey model diet with that.

See http://www.thecatsite.com/t/264154/raw-feeding-resources and http://www.thecatsite.com/t/263955/helpful-resources-raw-home-cooked-cat-food-forum for more info and sample recipes.

A local raw pet food co-op might be another option to obtain raw meats. Here's a thread: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/292336/local-raw-pet-food-services

Have you tried Nature's Variety Instinct frozen raw? I feed that to my cats along with a grind / pre-mix. I buy the medallions for cats (a special order item in some pet stores) instead of the Raw Bites. I've never tried Feline's Pride but heard from someone a few years ago that the shipping cost was ridiculous.

I'm not on Facebook, Maureen, so I haven't been privy to Feline's Pride's complete meltdown - only my own unhappy part in it.  I suppose that by now just about everyone who used to depend on the company knows it's no longer dependable (even if they don't yet know the full extent of the company's untrustworthiness).  I hope the warning about the company gets out fast and far enough that few more additional people are left in the lurch and cheated by them before the company's doors inevitably close.

LTS3, part of what bothers my wife and I about the idea of buying from Hare Today is that they don't provide accurate, detailed nutritional information on the various related products they sell.  For example, "Boneless Ground Rabbit," "Ground Rabbit Organs," "Ground Rabbit, Whole Carcass - Fur and All" and "Ground Rabbit/Bones/Organs" should each have a unique nutritional composition, and that composition should dictate what if any supplements should be added to it.  But they only provide a link "For more information" for some but not all of their rabbit products, and when you visit that link the first thing you notice is that it's the same USDA nutrient panel for all of the linked products despite the products' different compositions - and the second thing you notice, if you look at the header information rather than just the table beneath it, is that the provided USDA nutrient panel is actually for cooked raccoon meat.  Raw rabbit carcasses (or parts thereof), cooked raccoon meat,... at least they're both small mammals the names of which start with an "R," anyway...

My wife and I are knowledgeable and capable enough (and there are enough resources out there to assist us if we need it) to combine known ingredients into a proper raw meat cat diet, but working with unknown or even just partly known ingredients it really seems like a crapshoot to us.  Mind you, I'm not saying that they're not selling quality products.  In fact, the only reason we're considering them at all is because a lot of folks here and elsewhere have attested that they are doing so.  We just really wish they were providing quality information to go along with their quality products.

Nature's Variety made our short list of raw meat cat foods, too, but in their case we're not happy about the fact that they mix a bunch of pork parts into their rabbit diet (rabbit is the only thing our problem cat has ever taken to and done well on), and further do so in such a manner that it drops the protein and raises the fat content considerably.  Our cats might eat it and even do OK on it (hence our putting it on the short list), but we're wildlife biologists who have spent most of our careers working with carnivores (including felids both big and small), so we know it's not an ideal formulation for a cat.  That's why we picked Primal's rabbit diet for our interim raw meat cat food.

Please don't get me wrong; any and all recommendations were and are appreciated!  I'm just providing feedback on them as we work our way through them en route to deciding on another long-term solution for our beloved "kids."  You folks here are incredibly helpful, and I only wish I'd found this website much sooner than I did!

Gerry

gbin I don't have time to elaborate. I will later. But I want to jot this down as others most likely know where I'm going with it and can chime in.

My reaction to your concerns was

1) Don't lose sight of the forest for the trees. Cats eat whole prey and in the wild that provides all they need. The link to the Plantinga 2011 feral cat diet meta-analysis is in either the general forum resources thread or the raw resources thread. So the only variable when buying whole ground animal is farm feeding vs wild feeding (that primarily affects the fats which is why you'll always see an omega 3 added in recipes - even in unsupplemented PMR feeding via sardines) and potential nutrient damage from grinding and freezing (oxidation).

2) No need to reinvent the wheel. We already know from analysis by mschauer - verified by the time-tested recipes all being so similar to each other - and commercial supplement ingredients and their analysis - and commercial foods like Rad Cat that follows that same basic recipe (similar to Feline's Pride) and its analysis - that it takes very little supplementation to balance meat, bone, and organs fed in the proper proportions.

It would cost several thousand per food sample to have the products offered analyzed. I, for one, see no need for this based on what we know about the cat's natural diet and our knowledge of what is missing by feeding farmed animals - and our knowledge of which nutrients may be subject to damage from oxidation. The USDA database is drveloped for human food consumption, so does not have complete info for organs, whole animals, etc. Yeah, they should fix the bad link.

I think you would really enjoy and benefit from reading the discussion in this thread: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/261571/the-problem-with-home-made-diets-and-how-to-analyze-your-diet

Sorry, LDG, but I really don't know where you're coming from in your last post.  I suppose it's probably just the difficulty of communicating in this medium, and we really hold much the same views...

To clarify where I'm coming from:

There is simply no question that there is a significant difference in nutritional content between whole ground rabbit and different compilations of (less than whole) ground rabbit parts, both of which Hare Today is selling for folks to feed their cats - not to mention between a raw rabbit carcass or parts thereof and cooked raccoon meat (the latter being what they're providing nutritional information for via a link to the USDA).  I have no desire whatsoever to reinvent the wheel - in fact my strong (lazy  :^ /  ) preference is for a complete commercial raw meat cat diet that I consider appropriate, available and affordable - but if I have to mix up a diet on my own then I want to have accurate, full information on the things that will go into the recipe.  If they're going to sell it, it's my view that they should have (and provide) nutritional information for it.

I have conducted nutritional analyses myself, by the way, so I know what is entailed.  :^ /

There is also simply no question that some foods sold as complete commercial raw meat cat diets contain significantly different nutritional compositions than do others, e.g. Primal's Feline Rabbit Formula has considerably higher protein and lower fat (much more like what cats evolved to eat) than does Nature's Variety's Instinct raw Rabbit Formula, which includes quite a bit of pork (most notably pork fat) as well as rabbit.  All of the diets out there might work well for most cats, but I have a problem cat that unfortunately has much more rigid dietary requirements (which seem aligned with what cats evolved to eat, even if that's just by coincidence) so I am compelled to consider such things much more seriously than might another person.

That's really all I said above, in case you took me differently.

Thanks for the additional information, by the way.  I will definitely peruse it when I have a bit more time.

Gerry

It's like reading my own experience with the company since December.  We switched just this week to a new brand and are very happy.  We also put in a complaint to the better business bureau.  I would HIGHLY recommend this to all the customers that have been burned by them in the last few months - they've stolen money from many people and not provided a product in return.  I hope you have found a new raw food company.  

I am so sorry that many of you had problems with Feline pride. I have never used their product because I live on the West coast. Per Anne Jablonski, (website is Feline Nutrition) The original owner, Shelby Gomas was wonderful and has a good product. He died in 2010, and his kids took over. If you visit Anne's website, you will find what she uses to complete raw meats such as Hare Today.  I believe Anne worked closely with Lisa Pierson DVM, who also has recipe to make the food balanced. I am sure that you have been to these websites before in your searches for raw food. As I stated that I live on the West coast, I have been able to purchase Rad Cat. I bought the Turkey and also the lamb (frozen) complete diet at a local family owned pet store.     I believe Rad Cat is in Washington or Oregon, and their website has a retailer locator. Again I am sorry to read that Feline Pride has disappointed so many people. 

gbin Thanks for the additional info - I did misunderstand. I didn't realize your kitty had such strict protein/fat sensitivities (or whatever it is that you need the specific information). Raw food suppliers don't have the information you need available. It is cost-prohibitive. They aren't marketing their foods as complete diets. I'm thankful the products are available to people, as most of us don't have such tight tolerances.

Unfortunately, other than prepared foods, that information won't be available - unless on retail packaging from a supermarket, which means rabbit is out. Well - at least in NJ. :lol3:

And CLEARLY the link to the raccoon is a mistake. :lol3: If you can find the time, you might want to provide Tracy the information - a link to the product that has the incorrect link.

Maureen Bradley said:

 
gbin- I had just read last night ( on the fb site) that the owners remained the same. I have never purchased from FP so I can't remember the names but I believe someone else said that they were a brother and sister. Anyway, I read that they closed down in NY and would no longer have the same folks in charge of customer service but the ownership remained the same.

 If ownership has changed, they have sure done a lousy job at retaining business.

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There has been a change of some sort but it wasn't recent. The company founder and original formulator of the products (Shelby something) died a few years ago. The family then either sold the company to a large corporation or else it is being managed by someone who doesn't seem to be up to the job. The company, service wise at least, seems to have been in a slow decline ever since. Sad because the product, if it is the same as the original, is quite good.

Edit: I just saw Anne with Cats post about Shelby's kids taking over the running of the company. Apparently none of them understands the importance of good customer relations.

LDG said:

... Raw food suppliers don't have the information you need available. It is cost-prohibitive...

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I'm afraid my own experience in conducting nutritional analyses prevents me from agreeing with you about it being cost-prohibitive, LDG, but I'm happy to agree to disagree.  :^ /  I'm sure we agree on way more than we disagree on, anyway.

And I'll put contacting Hare Today about their links to that USDA cooked raccoon meat webpage on my to-do list.  :^]

Haikubear, I had no idea others were being treated as I was by Feline's Pride until very recently, thanks to this website.  I'm glad I started this thread to help get the word out to those of us who don't participate on Facebook.  I wish I knew of other ways to warn people who don't participate either here or there.

mschauer, I have to think something at the company changed recently, as we relied on them heavily and for several years with no problems whatsoever, then had our first problem (significantly delayed shipment of order, with no notification that this was going to be the case) just before Thanksgiving of last year, and then of course there's the major way they left us in the lurch - and still appear determined to steal our money - this year.  The woman I mentioned in my first post who represented herself as being Feline's Pride's Grand Imperial Poobah only ever gave my her first name, and the man I mentioned in my first post fully identified himself but not his position, and his last name matched that which used to appear on Feline's Pride's website ("A subsidiary of Gomas Enterprises" or some such  ;^ /  ).  As I said earlier, the woman angrily told me the man was merely her accountant and I wasn't to bother anyone but her ever again, but I suspect she wasn't telling me the truth about that just as she clearly wasn't telling me the truth about various other things.

Given your comment above about the apparent unsuitability of the founder's kids for customer relations, too, I should say again that the aforementioned man seemed very professional, knowledgeable and helpful when I dealt with him, a clear polar opposite of the aforementioned woman.  If they're both the founder's kids, which for all I know may well be, I'd say only one of them is glaringly unfit to deal with the company's customers (or head it).  Unfortunately, I only ever reached the man that first time I tried calling to speak to someone in the company's executive offices (because no one in customer service or sales was ever getting back to me), and ever since then any e-mail I sent his way (to an address he provided me that has his specific name in it, not the company's or the woman's name) has been intercepted or at least ultimately dealt with by her.  Hopefully if he's still involved with the company in any capacity he at least knows that she's driving it into the ground.

Gerry

gbin said:

I'm afraid my own experience in conducting nutritional analyses prevents me from agreeing with you about it being cost-prohibitive, LDG, but I'm happy to agree to disagree.  :^ /  I'm sure we agree on way more than we disagree on, anyway.

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I'm sure. The issue is that claims for marketing foods are quite different than analysis we conduct informally.

LDG said:

... The issue is that claims for marketing foods are quite different than analysis we conduct informally.

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Nope, not informally.  The nutritional analyses I've done were formal laboratory analyses, which I subsequently formally wrote up as part of wildlife studies I conducted.  (In this part of those studies I was examining the nutritional content of each of a wide variety of food items that I'd observed my focal species consuming over an extended period.)  I agree that a nutritional analysis resulting in laboratory certification such as a commercial enterprise would want would cost more (to obtain even if not to do  ;^ /  ), but not really all that much more, and in any event it's only a one-time cost per type of food item.  That's a drop in a bucket for anything more than a tiny, local mom-and-pop enterprise.  And I'd argue it should be considered a necessary expense even for them, unless they can find others who have already done a nutritional analysis of a given food item that they can point to.  (That is, it's not necessary for everyone to have analyzed the nutritional content of "Ground Rabbit Organs," for example, assuming everyone means the same thing by that.)  That's my view, anyway.

But I'd rather we didn't take this thread too far astray with this separate discussion.  As I said, I'm happy to agree to disagree.  :^]

Gerry

Good evening, everyone -

I am both a CatSite newbie and a cat (well, kitty) owner newbie as I just rescued a ten week old kitten from the mean streets of Manhattan a few months ago. :-)

Two of the initial sites I came across were Anne Jablonski's CatNutrition.org and Dr. Lisa Pierson's catinfo.org.  It was from these sites that I learned about the importance of feeding my little Stella a raw diet - and learning about Feline's Pride.  I also read about what a great and dedicated person Shelby Gomas was.  That only added to the attraction of Feline's Pride.  Living in a world of Chinese pet food that kills our beloved pets - and now reading about the Beneful lawsuit - it felt so great to discover this caring community that was the polar opposite of these multinational conglomerates that seem to only care about profits.

This week, like many of you, I was initially nonplussed and then increasingly concerned because I had another shipment due to arrive yesterday and, when it did not arrive - and then when I wasn't able to reach out to Feline's Pride - I came across this site and started to get worried.

However, like some of you have said, it also didn't align with the positive experiences I had in the past with Feline's Pride.  Given this, I was willing to suspend judgement until I was able to find out some more information.

Today, I did receive my shipment of Feline's Pride.  And, this afternoon, I did hear back from the company as well.  Evidently, they were having a problem with their phone system and email.  It sounds like they are working out some internal issues, one of which is the move to Florida.  The woman with whom I spoke was very friendly and apologetic.  I was greatly reassured.  I am a small business owner myself and I understand that sometimes things can happen that are out of our control.  What is most important to me is knowing that Feline's Pride is still passionate about what they do.  For myself, I will continue to be a loyal Feline's Pride customer and eagerly await the new and improved things they will have coming down the pike, so to speak.

All the best,

- Rich

I'm glad you finally got your order (this time), Rich.  And if you continue to deal with Feline's Pride, I hope they somehow manage to serve you well, too.  I don't in the least expect it, however.

The woman who aggressively represented herself to me as being in charge of the company, and who responded to inquiries I made not only to customer service and sales but also to those I made to a man who I reached via the company's executive office, never told me they were having any problems with their phone system or e-mail.  In fact, more than once before I finally and reluctantly gave up on them she admitted that they weren't having any such problems despite the long periods that would go without her or anyone else responding to my inquiries.  But she did tell me of innumerable other problems they were supposedly having, sometimes contradicting herself and occasionally saying things that were directly refuted by other available evidence.  In short, though sometimes she acted quite friendly (and at other times quite hostile; I was apparently never lucky enough to catch her on apologetic day), she clearly lied to me repeatedly.

I suffered with their now unreliable and uncaring service for months before I finally gave up on them.  The problems started for me with an order I placed last November, and though it was difficult and I put up with a fair amount of abuse from the aforementioned woman, I did eventually get that order.  As for the next (which I can promise you was my last) order with them, which I placed in January, despite that woman's repeated promises to finally ship my order, that never happened.  Despite her repeated promises to refund my money in lieu of sending me my order, that never happened either.  It wasn't their phone system or e-mail that was responsible for this, it was the company itself.  They might still make a great product, but despite your brief experience with them, it is clear that for some/many/most (probably everyone, ultimately) they can't be trusted anymore to get their product to you when you order it, nor even to refund your money when they don't get it to you.  And except when that woman is playing nice, they can't be expected to act like they care about whatever difficulties they might cause you and your cat(s) by their unreliability, either.

I was as solid a customer as they had, having spent several thousand dollars on their products over several years.  And now I wouldn't dream of trying to buy from them again.  I'm not at all happy that's the way it is, but that's definitely the way it is, and they've no one and nothing (certainly not their phone system or e-mail, no matter what they told you) to blame for it but themselves.

An update for those interested:  I did (finally) just win my protest of Feline's Pride's charge on my credit card, so at least they didn't manage to steal the almost $400 I paid them for that last order that they never bothered to send me.  Again, I urge everyone with similar experiences to not let them rip you off or keep ripping off others; rather than continuing to be strung along by Feline's Pride's empty promises and excuses, consult your credit card companies about how to get your money back, and file complaints about Feline's Pride with the Better Business Bureau (see link above).

Gerry

Good evening, Gerry -

Just to be clear, the period of time during which I was unable to get a response from Feline's Pride was yesterday and today.  I now tend to purchase about 30 lbs. at a time so I am only ordering about once a quarter.  I will be sure to follow-up with this forum when I make my next order to let everyone know how the experience goes.

All the best,

- Rich

Yes, Rich, you were clear about how brief your recent problem was with Feline's Pride.  As I said, I hope your good luck with the company continues past your first few experiences (two so far? three? your posts seem to say different things in different places), though I would frankly be quite surprised if you didn't have much more serious problems with them before long, given what I and apparently numerous other customers (at least some of us having been very long-time customers) have experienced in recent months.

To summarize, I'm talking about failure to fill orders or communicate about same, blaming everything (apparently sometimes even the customers involved) but themselves for this, going back-and-forth between making excuses and promises to customers and actually attacking customers for bothering them, and after stringing people along for extended periods thereby still never coming through with either orders or refunds...  For my part, I'd managed to live more than half a century without protesting more than maybe two charges on my credit card or ever filing any complaint at all with the Better Business Bureau, both of which I was ultimately compelled to do with respect to Feline's Pride.  I'm not on Facebook, but someone said above that many people were using it to complain of similar mistreatment, so if you are signed up there you might want to see for yourself the corroboration of others relaying their experiences for what I have written here of mine.  I feel sure none of us wanted to stop doing business with Feline's Pride, let alone to be lied to and ripped off by the company.

You'd be wise to plan on a backup for such an eventuality, yourself, especially if your new cat turns out to have special dietary needs as does one of mine - that Feline's Pride was content to leave to suffer terribly if that's what it came to before I could find an acceptable substitute food.  And I'm not exaggerating either the likelihood or severity we faced with respect to that possibility - the company really left us in the lurch and they knew quite clearly that they were doing so.

By all means come back and post on your additional experiences as a customer of Feline's Pride, be they good or bad.  But if they're good, you should try to understand that your having successfully obtained one or a few orders from the company ("successfully" including only a modest delay) doesn't in any way negate them having so badly abused so many more of us.

Gerry

A friendly reminder to everyone here that TCS has a Review Section for any positive or negative experiences of products and on line Pet Supply companies.  If you wish to make comments about companies please use the appropriate Review section.  If the item you wish to review is not present you can send a PM to Anne as site owner or any member of the site team to request that it be added.

Good morning, gbin -

I came to this site because I am interested in being part of a community that has a shared passion about the kittens and cats that we all have chosen to be an important part of our lives.  Each of us has experiences - good, bad or otherwise - that we can share and learn from each other.

When I make my next order for Feline's Pride I will, as promised, report back about the experience, whether good or bad.  If I come across any additional information in the meantime I will share that as well.

I remain passionate about learning from others about doing the best I can for my cat and look forward to sharing as well when I come across things that I think might be of interest.

Best,

- Rich

Tournesol said:

Today, I did receive my shipment of Feline's Pride.  And, this afternoon, I did hear back from the company as well.  Evidently, they were having a problem with their phone system and email.  It sounds like they are working out some internal issues, one of which is the move to Florida.  The woman with whom I spoke was very friendly and apologetic.  I was greatly reassured.  I am a small business owner myself and I understand that sometimes things can happen that are out of our control.  What is most important to me is knowing that Feline's Pride is still passionate about what they do.  For myself, I will continue to be a loyal Feline's Pride customer and eagerly await the new and improved things they will have coming down the pike, so to speak.

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Thank you letting us know about this. I hope the move to Florida will bring benefits to both the company and their customers.. Feline's Pride and Rad Cat remain the best commercially available balanced raw diets in my opinion.