Having severe cat trouble....about to give up and shelter him. Please help.

Hey guys. Saw the behaviorist. He gave us a lot of helpful information, but ultimately concluded that it's most likely Nova is suffering from some sort of neurological disorder that's causing him to act like this - possibly coming from a trauma as a kitten. He suggested a few things, like new litter/litterbox and transitioning him to be an outdoor cat. We can't do the latter, as our complex does not allow outdoor animals. He basically said due to Nova's behavior, it's most likely going to take lots of time and effort, which may never even pay off - he mentioned a story of an anxious cat that took 10 whole years to even come out during the day and seek out his owner - or the right medication to make him better. Also suggested getting blood work/xrays/exams to check out his insides just to make sure he's not in pain, but he doesn't seem to be behaving due to pain. Just lots and lots of human-related anxiety.

At this point, Nova has gotten even worse. I think introducing him to a new person really set him off. He's having 3-5 accidents every day. We've put him back in the bathroom, and his behavior is just....I don't know how to explain it. He doesn't seem well at all. He looks miserable, he pees ALL over himself. We can't even check on him without him rolling onto his back and peeing/pooping on himself. The bathroom he's in is tiny, and his litterbox is not even a step away from where he's positioned himself (he hasn't moved in....probably over 24 hours now other than to eat and drink). We also contacted the foster home we got him from, and they also suggested either making him an outdoor cat (we would if we could, in a heartbeat, but the landlord doesn't tolerate it), or completely rehoming him, unless we want to continue dealing with him. :[

We're currently giving him 2 doses of Buspar a day, at 12 hour intervals, and keeping him in the bathroom due to excessive accidents. Not really sure what to do. We're considering re-homing him because he is just absolutely miserable and if it's our fault, we don't want him to have to suffer and be around us. We also called the humane society to see if they'd re-home or shelter him and they straight up said he'd be euthanized due to his "unwanted" behavioral problems.

cattrouble said:

 
Hey guys. Saw the behaviorist. He gave us a lot of helpful information, but ultimately concluded that it's most likely Nova is suffering from some sort of neurological disorder that's causing him to act like this - possibly coming from a trauma as a kitten. He suggested a few things, like new litter/litterbox and transitioning him to be an outdoor cat. We can't do the latter, as our complex does not allow outdoor animals. He basically said due to Nova's behavior, it's most likely going to take lots of time and effort, which may never even pay off - he mentioned a story of an anxious cat that took 10 whole years to even come out during the day and seek out his owner - or the right medication to make him better. Also suggested getting blood work/xrays/exams to check out his insides just to make sure he's not in pain, but he doesn't seem to be behaving due to pain. Just lots and lots of human-related anxiety.

At this point, Nova has gotten even worse. I think introducing him to a new person really set him off. He's having 3-5 accidents every day. We've put him back in the bathroom, and his behavior is just....I don't know how to explain it. He doesn't seem well at all. He looks miserable, he pees ALL over himself. We can't even check on him without him rolling onto his back and peeing/pooping on himself. The bathroom he's in is tiny, and his litterbox is not even a step away from where he's positioned himself (he hasn't moved in....probably over 24 hours now other than to eat and drink). We also contacted the foster home we got him from, and they also suggested either making him an outdoor cat (we would if we could, in a heartbeat, but the landlord doesn't tolerate it), or completely rehoming him, unless we want to continue dealing with him. :[

We're currently giving him 2 doses of Buspar a day, at 12 hour intervals, and keeping him in the bathroom due to excessive accidents. Not really sure what to do. We're considering re-homing him because he is just absolutely miserable and if it's our fault, we don't want him to have to suffer and be around us. We also called the humane society to see if they'd re-home or shelter him and they straight up said he'd be euthanized due to his "unwanted" behavioral problems.

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Well this is disappointing.

Although if we think about it, this is a behaviorist, and as we go along have decided basically that it doesn't fit into the behavioral pattern, and is likely a neurological issue, which can be due to trauma as a kitten, but also from chemistry imbalance. I tend to think the latter, unless he had suffered a head injury.

Nobody would have any bad feelings for whatever decision you choose to make. You have gone the extra lengths to help him, that's for sure. 

I think his being able to be outdoors is not a solution either anymore, he very likely will have the same ways about him as he has now, and will have a torturous type of existence. Not to mention he doesn't know how to be an outdoor cat. 

So it would seem to me that his only chance for a normal life is whether any of the anti-anxiety drugs work, and how well, how long. 

I don't know this for a fact, but it seems to me that a neurologist specialist should be able to determine what the imbalance is in his head, and correct it. (?) Or at least determine which med will work the best for him.

Whether you both are willing to seek out the help of a neurologist is up to you of course, as I said before, we are not in your shoes and have great amt of empathy for your situation.

What gets me is that 2 days of normalcy you got a chance to see. There is a wonderful cat somewhere in there that is dying to come out. No fault of his either.

What a sad situation.........

HI there.  I'm so, so sorry to see that news. You seem like a wonderful advocate for him, I really can't think of anyone doing any better or being more generous.  I  also can't see how it could ever be your fault, but  I do see how he could have a pretty horrible time of it at the hands of someone else.  I've been re-reading your thread trying to figure out if you think it's just a people issue, but it appears to be the cat has a major mental health or neurological issue that has sentenced him to a miserable existence.  And I can't see how he would survive as an outdoor cat as his anxiety would prevent him from watching out for himself. 

The only way this would be a right and wrong decision was if you had unlimited time and monetary resources.  But for most of us these decisions come down to the best bad choice.  I really feel for you. 

After posting, the question about whether a neurologist is able to find the chemistry imbalance I came across an article that I found interesting.

It refers to dogs mostly but it seems it would also apply to cats.

Deficits in serotonin, a hormone that serves as a neurotransmitter, seem to play an important role in the control of anxiety, aggression and mood changes in the brain, especially when certain other conditions that affect impulsive behaviours are present. Restoring the chemical balance is not easy, since serotonin can’t successfully be administered as a shot or pill. In human beings, there has been a good deal of success controlling such conditions with drugs that keep the serotonin already in the brain from being broken down and reabsorbed around the nerve endings. This, in effect, increases the amount of serotonin available for use by the neural system. The class of drugs that do this is known as “serotonin reuptake inhibitors” or SRI’s.  The best known of these is Prozac. - See more at: http://moderndogmagazine.com/articles/pill-popping-pups/753#sthash.v0paS54z.dpuf

For the sake of simplicity, we can divide major psychological problems experienced by dogs into two clusters. The first involves anxiety and stress-related difficulties and the second involves anger and aggression problems. At the neurological level, these apparently very different conditions are closely related. Karen Overall of the Center for Neurobiology and Behavior at the University of Pennsylvania found that dogs with a history of aggressive behaviours normally have higher levels of stress hormones, such as cortisol, in their blood. This is similar to dogs suffering from fear and anxiety. Dogs with aggression problems also show unusual levels of neurotransmitters, These are the chemicals that carry messages from one nerve cell to another including serotonin, dopamine, and the monoamines. - See more at: http://moderndogmagazine.com/articles/pill-popping-pups/753#sthash.v0paS54z.dpuf

The entire article is at http://moderndogmagazine.com/articles/pill-popping-pups/753

It does mention that prozac will take from 3-6 weeks to see it's full effect, as it must build up in the system.

Just a bit of info I found. 

Well the language barrier is the b**** of it.  The cat can't tell you if they are having delusions or hallucinations.  My first thought was (and again I am pulling this stuff out of my rear end with no expertise in animal behavior/neurology) that there would be some sort of improvement because of the anti-anxiety meds, even before the longer acting drugs kicked in.  His peeing doesn't seem to be a self-soothing behavior that calms him down so he can get a few minutes of peace.  It sounds disorganized (i.e, random).  By staying in one place, do you mean he just sits there in a frozen posture?

I think what catwoman posted above is instructive - if the drugs do work it will become apparent in a few weeks. 

@catwoman707   : Yeah, we don't think he'd last very long as an outdoor cat, seeing as he's terrified of everything. He'd probably end up starving.  We're going to continue doing his medication for a week, and if it shows no improvement we'll double the dose and try for another week. We're considering re-homing him, because we can't stand to see him like this. He's really a mess. It's like watching an elderly person start descending into dementia. It's breaking our hearts. Maybe he'll find happiness in another home.

We actually gave him another dose of Xanax two days before the behaviorist, and for an hour and a half he was PERFECT. He was social, no accidents, walking around and meowing and following us everywhere we went. This lasted an hour and a half, and he immediately went to a corner, peed and laid in it as soon as the pill wore off. We thought maybe, just maybe the Xanax would work again, but we gave him a second dose about 6 hours after the first one and it had no affect AT ALL. He took the pill, but when it should have been kicking in he just sat in his corner and continued having accidents for the rest of the night. 

Thanks for the articles, I'm giving them a read now.

@Reba  : I wish we had enough money to find out everything that's going on in his head. I really, really do. His peeing is very strange. Yes, he sits in one place for the entire day, curled up with his tail under him. Extremely tense. If you walk near him, walk towards him, talk to him, sit by him, pet him, give him food/treats, make any noise around him...he pees. If you leave him alone the entire day....he still pees because he refuses to move. I think his bladder just gets really full and when he either can't handle it anymore or he's in an anxious situation he just lets it all go.

We had an incident Friday night where I had set up a safe place for him to go, and he seemed okay in it for the whole day, didn't move but he wasn't looking too anxious. After playing a video game for a bit, my boyfriend and I checked on him and as soon as he saw us he flopped over onto his back and just fountain peed EVERYWHERE. An entire bladders worth of pee, omg. This was when I decided he had to be put in the bathroom for good. He's in a fairly small bathroom with easy access to his litterbox, and he's still peeing on the tile where he's laying and then doesn't even bother to move out of it. He's actually used the litterbox in there maybe twice? So I know he doesn't have a problem with the litter.

We're giving him two weeks to see if this medication helps at all, and then we're probably going to look into a new home for him. :[ 

Okay so I admit I am unable to walk away from this thread and forget about it for a while, it bothers me.

What really strikes me is that his anxiety is so bad that he will sit in pee all day long despite how very much that is disturbing to a cat. 

The very saddest part to me is that he is a good kitty inside there and is unable to be a good boy for you.

As you said, for 2 hours he was great, followed you around, etc. 

WHICH CLEARLY STATES IT IS NOT YOU!! You mentioned that here and there, of course it's not you or your home! 

Rehoming him anyplace is a dead end, just my opinion here but it will make him even worse, as he won't be familiar at all with his new owner/surroundings, and bottom line is he will at some point end up dumped or at the shelter and euthanized. 

2 1/2 days ago you mentioned giving Buspar 2 weeks and if it didn't work you would insist on Prozac. I don't know that Buspar will help him, but Prozac seems to be the drug of choice in fixing these types of disorders.

I truly feel for you both, you obviously love him, the boy you know he could be, and eliminating daily, well who could possibly be okay with that, surely not me either.

He reminds me alot of feral cats, I have a big soft spot for them, as they are SO misunderstood.

I actually wrote an article about this.

http://thepetloversguide.com/the-misunderstood-feral-cat-feralcommunity-cat-abandoned/

My next article will tell the story of my recent experience I had with a feral cat resident I had saved many years ago who I recently lost.

She proved to me that despite the fear she just could not get over, that feral cats are just the same as all of our house cats are. In her final days, she gave me such a great gift, and suddenly her fear was gone. I'm certain it's because she knew she was near the end of her life, so for her last few days she followed me around, into my house, met my resident cats, and stayed by my side. I was able to hold her, kiss her head, and show her all the love I had ached to do for 5 1/2 years she was with me. It was amazing.

I think Nova is also tortured by this anxiety, but he is unable to fix it himself. 

I do think he must remain closed in the bathroom, with visits as often as possible, with his brother as well.

Hopefully this will delay rehoming him, and in that time he will find help and relief with medication.

This last comment is very hard for me to say, I am a cat saver, a rescuer, and go to great lengths in even the worst cases imaginable.

But if it comes to a point where you two are exhausted and are ready to rehome him, it might be best for him to be pts instead.

Nobody will love him as you do, he has been with you through kittenhood, etc. and even if he had a property to go to and live outdoors but safely, his existence is torture the way he is.

It would seem to be a much more humane thing to do for him since it's not you or your home, but his inner works malfunctioning. So his only real chance at life is with you there, but of course finding a med that works for him.

As someone whose kitten was frankly paralyzed by fear and anxiety, I really strongly recommend you try Prozac. The turnaround I've seen has been amazing. The pills are inexpensive in the US - $4 for 30, which will last about 5 months for my cat and anywhere from 2-8 months in general.

It took some tinkering for the first week, and she was lethargic during that time. But I started seeing some improvement within 10 days, and I see a whole different cat 5 weeks in. I am not sure why your vet hasn't suggested this yet - they may be treating this as an emergency situation and trying to achieve an immediate effect - but really, really, it's worth trying, even if just while you're looking for a new home for him.

Since we keep getting messages about trying Prozac, we may give it a shot if we can get in touch with the vet this week. Nova has begun getting aggressive over the last few days, as well. He's hissing and batting/scratching at us. I wish I could understand what he was thinking. :[ 

His current condition reminds me a lot of my older - 14 or 15 year old cat - at my mom's house. She has recurring tumors that cause her pain and now she sleeps all day, pees herself, is very depressed looking all the time. It's very sad to see it in such a young kitten. He really looks absolutely miserable, and I feel so bad. 

I'll try to respond more to the replies in a bit, a little busy at the moment. Thanks for the concern and advice you've given us, everyone. We really appreciate it.

Regarding his recent aggression, in my post #44 the link shown is a great read, as it describes how anxiety/fear and aggression are very closely related and basically says the same imbalances can cause either.

Cattrouble how's things going?

This thread has made me research cannabis as med for animals. I know it has been used for many similar issues in humans and have read stories of dogs being healed of cancer with it. Will chime back in if I find anything that applies to you. So sad his suffering. I personally would have a stoned but happy cat any day over his pain. And ofcourse this is just a suggestion to research not medical advice.

 This is the issue with rescue cats - no prior background to as how they were raised or what they have experienced. I have a rescue cat myself and he will run and hide when he hears certain male voices leading me to believe that he was abused by a man at some point. 

Cats rely on their senses and siamese cats in my experience have a more developed 'sixth sense' so to speak. It makes sense that his brother will copy him, I assume that you do not know who was born first - as the older one will be the role model for the other sometimes. It is not easy trying to figure out what is really going on as humans do not speak cat very well. 

Siamese are a sensitive breed and it is not uncommon to find them not as friendly as other cats.

You have tried so many things it is very hard to say what to do next. We all love our cats and it is hard to do some of the things we have do to try to find out the problem is. I would try keeping the cats apart for like a week or more and see how each one responds to be apart.

pocho said:

This thread has made me research cannabis as med for animals. I know it has been used for many similar issues in humans and have read stories of dogs being healed of cancer with it. Will chime back in if I find anything that applies to you. So sad his suffering. I personally would have a stoned but happy cat any day over his pain. And ofcourse this is just a suggestion to research not medical advice.

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puddykat said:

 
 This is the issue with rescue cats - no prior background to as how they were raised or what they have experienced. I have a rescue cat myself and he will run and hide when he hears certain male voices leading me to believe that he was abused by a man at some point. 

Cats rely on their senses and siamese cats in my experience have a more developed 'sixth sense' so to speak. It makes sense that his brother will copy him, I assume that you do not know who was born first - as the older one will be the role model for the other sometimes. It is not easy trying to figure out what is really going on as humans do not speak cat very well. 

Siamese are a sensitive breed and it is not uncommon to find them not as friendly as other cats.

You have tried so many things it is very hard to say what to do next. We all love our cats and it is hard to do some of the things we have do to try to find out the problem is. I would try keeping the cats apart for like a week or more and see how each one responds to be apart.

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Unfortunately it goes beyond simple fear/shyness.

It looks clearly like an abnormality in the cat, a neurological imbalance of some sort.

Pocho actually I have used cannabis twice on extremely feral, cats, it's not too often you run in to a cat who obviously has never even seen humans, but these 2 I had trapped had the potential of being dangerous, not only to me but themselves. Cannabis did infact calm them down during the short stay here through recovery and releasing.

The latest one I named Mary Jane  

Would you believe I relocated her to a medical marijuana warehouse?! True story, I had no idea until I drove there to check it out for safety for a feral cat. 

How comical is that?.....she is happy there and safe, even shows herself now and then, lounging in the high rafters and watching things below

@catwoman707   Things are pretty much the same. We're still keeping him in the bathroom. He has about 3-4 accidents a day, and still lays in them. We check on him every 30 minutes to an hour, sometimes more depending on how busy we get. We've actually gotten in touch with someone interested in adopting him and letting him live on a farm where he can choose to either be indoor or outdoors. We think maybe giving him a chance with someone else may help, and if not we'll take him back and euthanize him. As of right now, he's living pretty miserably, and it's really sad. 

@pocho  Haha, we actually considered cannabis as well, since both my boyfriend and I have our medical cards, but it just never feels right getting an animal stoned against its will. It always makes me paranoid that they'll have a bad experience and freak out - but as a teenager I used to smoke with my cat/dog around all the time and they never seemed to have a problem with it - my dog actually always used to scratch and whine at the door until I let her join me.

@puddykat  Yeah, I agree. My boyfriend and I constantly joke about how we should have done our research before adopting. Nova was actually the alpha when we first got them, it was pretty obvious. He'd always push Cosmo out of the way of food, and harass him/initiate fights and overall just show Cosmo who was boss. After he started struggling to socialize, Cosmo became more dominant towards him. 

If you did decide to give cannabis a try, be sure it is a very small amt, very small. Sprinkle it on the wet food.

At this point I honestly don't see any real harm you can do, might relax him a bit, who knows.

I do completely understand your thinking to rehome him, I really do.

My thinking on this though is that he will be over the top with the change. He knows you two and his brother and is high anxiety as it is, I can't even begin to imagine how that would affect him.

Just my opinion though of course. Just hate to think he would likely get even worse. What a situation!

Cannabis is an ancient remedy for many things both for cats and owners. Maybe you could join in the experience just for research purposes!

I'm late into this, it's heart wrenching sadness and you two are heros for sticking with him. You've been given such incredible advice and compassion from all prior posters that I'm sorry  if I repeat anything already said.  Before your final decision is made, double check to see if you've covered the basics. Sometimes the simple things are overlooked in times like these.

A small bathroom with no way out, not knowing what is going on or what might  come in that door may cause nervousness. 

Let him hear your voice before and while entering.  Unscented baby wipes and a fluffy towel pre warmed in the dryer may take edge off cleanup.

A small room within a room can sometimes help, such as a large 4x4 cage with a small cat carrier inside covered like a cave, as a safe zone.  Piece of cheap vinyl flooring 6x6 put under the cage with cardboard on top and random siding .    .  Can be made from large furniture boxes.

New or cleaned litter box with non scented soap. NON-covered litter box, absolutely NON SCENTED litter,  try another one if needed.  Smartcat Litter is great.

Anything new been brought in the home: plants, new cleaners, vacuum bags, deodorizers, clothing like oily shirts or chemical residue from new job etc.

So many things can cause reactions, but, I believe Catwoman 707 has very sound advice along with others.  When a cat is in a living hell within himself and all reasonable avenues of help have been tried, even superheros have to let a friend go at times.  No need to reply, you are busy enough with all of this.

Take care in whatever you do and good luck little fella.

@catwoman707  : We're gonna give the cannabis a try right now, small amount just to see if he calms down.

We're hoping that he'll get put with a patient new owner who will take time with him to work around his anxiety issues and take everything really slow with him. Since he'll be on a farm, he can use the bathroom anywhere he wants and not have an owner worry about him ruining everything. It's really our last option next to euthanasia, and we know he's a good cat underneath all his baggage, so we want to give him one last shot at a happy life. 

@puddykat   : haha, I totally agree! I actually use it pretty frequently to curb my depression and eating troubles. 

@Dad2Many  : The bathroom definitely makes him nervous - I think it makes him feel like he's done something wrong and is being punished for it. Sadly, if we let him out he has accidents all over the house and I don't think our carpet can take anymore abuse. We do make an effort to talk to him through the door before we enter so he knows we're coming in. We can put a box in there to make him more comfortable. We've actually tried using worn laundry to help get him used to the scent, but if we leave him too long with any cloth it ends up getting peed/pooped on. :[

Thank you for the advice though! We appreciate it.

@Margret  We agree to some degree - we think he may be beyond hope at this point but we really hate to see a cat get put down (I hope it doesn't sound too selfish, we know he's a good cat at heart, he just has a lot of issues). We're going to see how he does in a new, more open environment before making the huge decision. Thank you for the kind words, though.