New cat owner with a host of questions.

dogen · Nov 29, 2014

Hello,

I recently adopted a 4-5 month old tabby and am in the process of working out his food. I have some questions I was hoping you all could help me with.

I purchased a case of "weruva nine liver" canned food upon a very cursory inspection of (relatively) healthy wet foods. If he likes this brand I may continue to use it unless there is a significant reason I should not be? I also have a few pounds of blue buffalo dry food that I plan to grind up and integrate with this wet food. This is in part to stretch the wet food (which is not cheap), in part to ensure my kitty is getting adequate nutrition, and in part because I have to do something with the dry food anyway. Is this a viable option me?

I was also wondering if I would be ok to feed my kitty a can of sardines every now and then. I read this is good for his coat? If so, should I use sardines packed in water? And do I need to wash/soak them prior to feeding to get off some of the salt. I understand these fish can be quite salty when canned.

I was also curious if it would be ok to feed him a simple can of chunk chicken breast packed in water? I certainly understand that cats are carnivores and need animal protein and this seemed like a very inexpensive option. A 12oz can of chunk white meat chicken is only a few dollars. Hypothetically, If I were to feed him this and only this on a daily basis for example, what other nutrients would he be lacking?

Thank you for your time and your responses. I appreciate the wealth of information you have available here. If there are any specific resources I should be looking at regarding my questions or similar issues please tell me

lucentstreak · Nov 29, 2014

Hi,

Welcome to TCS and congrats on your tabby!

weruva is great wet food. Mixing dry and wet is a good starter for transitioning your cat from dry to wet but I will not advise doing it in a long run. Dry food can get contaminated by bacteria rather easily upon contact with moisture. Also, since your kitten is 6 months old - he is likely to have a growing appetite and you may want to keep that in mind if you think weruva is expensive. I would say seperating dry from the wet food wouldn't hurt or even leaving dry out for the kitten to munch on.

Regarding canned human food, cats need taurine to break down the food and our food don't contain that. It might be used for emergencies when the cat isn't eating, though I never heard of using sardines.

bonepicker · Nov 29, 2014

Tiki cat puka luau and weruva paw licken chicken are canned chicken shreds

lisahe · Nov 29, 2014

Weruva is, indeed, very decent food -- our cats eat two kinds of their Cats in the Kitchen foods regularly -- though it is less caloric than many other foods so a growing kitten would probably need to eat a lot if that were his only food!

One of our cats' favorite caloric canned foods is Wellness Core: they particularly like the turkey and duck, and the kitten food, which I still give them every now and then even though they're no longer kittens. Prices for Wellness Core seem to vary by about 40-50 cents a can in my local stores (!) but it's good food and the cats consistently like it. Wellness has another kitten food, in its regular grain-free line, though our cats weren't wild about that one.

Enjoy your new kitten @Dogen!

lucentstreak · Nov 29, 2014

bonepicker said:
Tiki cat puka luau and weruva paw licken chicken are canned chicken shreds

Ah I misread the post then. I assumed it was human food that she was referring to.

@LisaHE has given good advice with regards to calories and food. Kittens usually eat much much much more when they are growing and thus it might be even sensible to invest in something like Wellness Core which is about ~250 kcal per 5.5oz even though it is slightly more expensive. My go-to wet grainfree Merricks is slightly cheaper but averages out about ~150-170 kcal per 5.5oz can and thus you can see the difference.

On another track, I read somewhere in this website about how NV instincts is having an offer and some of the members here have bought the dog food version (13.2 oz) cans for their cats. They have verified with the company itself that the formula is the same and there is taurine. This might be an economical alternative for you.

Hope this help!

dogen · Nov 29, 2014

Mixing dry and wet is a good starter for transitioning your cat from dry to wet but I will not advise doing it in a long run. Dry food can get contaminated by bacteria rather easily upon contact with moisture

Do you feel that bacteria would really be an issue if I mixed the food directly before feeding it to him? I'm trying my best to feed him at regular times and not leave food in the bowl 24/7. So I mix the food up and it's gone within 5 minutes. I bought a small mortar and pestle and today I have been grinding a spoonful of the dry into each serving of the wet.

Ah I misread the post then. I assumed it was human food that she was referring to.

I was indeed referring to human food. Regarding taurine, yes I am aware this is an important compound necessary for the cat's health. However, the products that I'm talking about are simply whole pieces of chicken in a can. And yes I admit that I don't know the extent to which these products are processed, but it would seem to me a bit over the top to have taurine removed from this kind of product at or before the canning just because it's meant for humans. The amount to taurine that would be found in a simple can of chicken meat could not be harmful to humans.

I will see how Bradley enjoys the weruva and I will look into some of the other brands recommended to me here.

Many thanks.

Willowy · Nov 29, 2014

Taurine wouldn't be the only nutrient lacking. Most notably, there's no calcium in canned chicken. Without organ meat, it would be deficient in several vitamins. And while there is some taurine in all meat, white meat has very little. It's mostly in dark meat, hearts have the most. A diet of muscle meat only (canned or not) would result in some very nasty deficiencies. As a treat now and then, sure, but not as the sole diet.

Sardines make a good snack---high in omega 3 fatty acids. Try to find a salt-free brand; most stores that sell sardines have a salt-free option. Packed in water would be best but oil is OK too. But not mustard or hot sauce :tongue2:.

If your kitty eats his food right away I don't see a problem with mixing dry and canned. It will help boost the calorie content---Weruva is one of the lowest-calorie cat foods on the market, which is great for older, less active cats but not so great for a growing teenager. If he'll eat it with some water mixed in, even better.

dogen · Nov 29, 2014

Taurine wouldn't be the only nutrient lacking. Most notably, there's no calcium in canned chicken. Without organ meat, it would be deficient in several vitamins. And while there is some taurine in all meat, white meat has very little. It's mostly in dark meat, hearts have the most. A diet of muscle meat only (canned or not) would result in some very nasty deficiencies. As a treat now and then, sure, but not as the sole diet.

Yes of course. I have no intention of feeding my cat only canned chicken. I was just asking if it would hypothetically be possible to create a diet for him using this type of product as a starting point. I'm aware I would need to add several foods/supplements to make a complete diet. But let's put that aside for now.

The grocery store where I shop does not have a canned sardines without salt added. The most straightforward product I can find is simply sardines, water and salt. And the can has no nutritional facts on it so I cant find out exactly how much salt is in it. This is why I was asking if I should rinse the sardines or even soak them to remove some of the salt prior to feeding. About how frequently would/should I feed him sardines? Once a week?

Weruva is one of the lowest-calorie cat foods on the market, which is great for older, less active cats but not so great for a growing teenager

Yes, unfortunately I only did a relatively quick check on healthier canned foods before making my purchase. I wasn't aware until I did a bit more reading that weruva in low cat. I'm still in the process of figuring out which kinds of flavors he prefers so at this point there is going to be a bit of trial and error.

lucentstreak · Nov 29, 2014

Dogen said:
Do you feel that bacteria would really be an issue if I mixed the food directly before feeding it to him? I'm trying my best to feed him at regular times and not leave food in the bowl 24/7. So I mix the food up and it's gone within 5 minutes. I bought a small mortar and pestle and today I have been grinding a spoonful of the dry into each serving of the wet.

I was indeed referring to human food. Regarding taurine, yes I am aware this is an important compound necessary for the cat's health. However, the products that I'm talking about are simply whole pieces of chicken in a can. And yes I admit that I don't know the extent to which these products are processed, but it would seem to me a bit over the top to have taurine removed from this kind of product at or before the canning just because it's meant for humans. The amount to taurine that would be found in a simple can of chicken meat could not be harmful to humans.

I will see how Bradley enjoys the weruva and I will look into some of the other brands recommended to me here.

Many thanks.

About bacteria: It should be ok as long as he eats it up straight away. I think I read somewhere about 20 minutes rule. Hugo used to like the mix too but then he outgrew it. Who knows, cats.

Taurine is not removed from human food - I think it is simply not added in. It's like the comparison between cat food and dog food as well - that dogs can manufacture their own taurine and thus do not need it added in.

dogen · Nov 30, 2014

About bacteria: It should be ok as long as he eats it up straight away. I think I read somewhere about 20 minutes rule

What if I were to refrigerate the un eaten portions until the next meal time?

lucentstreak · Nov 30, 2014

The chance of contamination is still there. It's really up to you.

chromium blues · Nov 30, 2014

I give my cats sardines as a treat every once in awhile, packed in oil or tomato sauce. Sometimes they get chicken hearts, roasted chicken, or canned tuna. As a treat, it certainly isn't going to hurt, but not as part of a daily diet.

raintyger · Nov 30, 2014

I wouldn't mix the dry food and then use the uneaten portion later due to the bacterial problems previously mentioned. To cut costs you can get cheaper canned food like Fancy Feast classics (pate style food) or Friskies pate.

You can also cut costs by feeding homemade meals, but it is more than feeding canned chicken. There are lots of nutrients missing from an all muscle meat meal, plus some canned chicken is high in sodium, so I would only use the canned chicken as a snack. As @Willowy has previously mentioned, one of them is organ meat. If you head over to the raw and homecooked forum, they can teach you how to make a complete and balanced meal. Depending on your needs and wants, making your own food can be very simple such as using what is called a premix (a supplement mixture which provides the missing nutrients) or time consuming and complex (but cheap and can address certain medical issues).

dogen · Nov 30, 2014

How likely is it that leftover portions of dry/wet food mix will become contaminated if stored in fridge for a few hours until next meal time? I could eat part of a meal today, put it in the fridge and it could still be good for a whole week, I just don't understand how dry cat food is so susceptible to contamination after only a few hours. If I put some mixed food in the fridge, I cannot see a time when even 12 hours would go by without it being eaten again.

lucentstreak · Dec 1, 2014

Dogen said:
How likely is it that leftover portions of dry/wet food mix will become contaminated if stored in fridge for a few hours until next meal time? I could eat part of a meal today, put it in the fridge and it could still be good for a whole week, I just don't understand how dry cat food is so susceptible to contamination after only a few hours. If I put some mixed food in the fridge, I cannot see a time when even 12 hours would go by without it being eaten again.

It's not so much what we eat but rather the combination of moisture and dry food.

http://www.catnutrition.org/faq.html

How about if I soak the dry food in water until it's completely soft to change the texture and then add raw to that to trick my cat into eating the new food?

Please, please don't do that. Please.

Dry food, when moistened, is essentially transformed into bacterial soup. The bacteria load is extremely high in dry food. Add water to the mix, and you've just created an ideal environment for fungi and bacteria to multiply. When you moisten dry food, for example, you make it possible to quickly grow fungi in the food resulting in vomitoxin, aflatoxin, and mycotoxin production. Vomitoxin is a toxic substance produced by mold that can (and has) contaminated wheat used in dry pet foods resulting in serious illness and even death.

dogen · Dec 1, 2014

From that same article

If, after 18 hours or so, your cat still has refused canned food, then offer them a tiny bit of dry food--about a tablespoon. At this point, you may have to try serving another kind of canned food to see if she'll try that. Another trick is to generously sprinkle some of the crushed dry food onto a quarter cup of the canned food and offer that and then, over a period of two to three days, start using less and less of the crushed kibble and more and more of the canned. You will be the best judge of how quickly to do this, based on how your cat is adapting.

Another trick is to dip some of the dry food into the 'juice' of canned food to begin to accustom her taste buds to the taste of the better food.

So, I'm being led to believe that it is not okay to completely mix crushed dry food into canned wet food, but it is ok to sprinkle crushed dry food on top of wet food or to "dip" dry food into the juice or gravy of wet food?

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, and I apologize if I come off this way. I am truly trying to learn what is best for my new kitty and me. However, there seems to be an awfully fine line here....

raintyger · Dec 1, 2014

It is not OK to mix dry food and wet food AND then leave the mixture out for long periods of time, like over 20 minutes. Dry food has a higher bacterial load, so there are dangers in bacterial overgrowth.

maureen brad · Dec 1, 2014

All dry food brings with it the potential of contamination. Can you get EVO where you live? If so getting the large cans of kitten/cat food will save you money. If you can get Wild Calling canned food it is almost all meat and nutrients. I feed raw but would feed Wild Calling. It would also be far cheaper to buy cans of Wild Calling Chicken than to feed human food cans of chicken. Kitty would also get all the nutrients that are so important to a growing cat.

I have read that liver as a first ingredient should be fine in rotation but not as a primary food.I can't offhand remember why.Keep in mind that if you feed grain free ( wet) you do not have to worry about it being labeled specifically for kittens.Have fun with your new kitten

manemelissa · Dec 1, 2014

I am not a veterinarian, nor have I tried mixing in dry with wet food before, but I don't believe that a mixture of dry and wet food will go "bad" after a few hours of storage in the fridge. If it was sitting out for hours at room temperature, then that might be a different story. I do feed my cat both wet and dry food, but I don't mix them. I like to have her feeding on a schedule to make sure she doesn't get overweight, so she gets dry food in the morning, wet in the evening, and a small bit of dry when I go to bed. I would do what you feel is best, and if you are concerned with the bacteria possibility, then you can always ask your kitten's vet for some advice.

bonepicker · Dec 2, 2014

ManeMelissa said:
I am not a veterinarian, nor have I tried mixing in dry with wet food before, but I don't believe that a mixture of dry and wet food will go "bad" after a few hours of storage in the fridge. If it was sitting out for hours at room temperature, then that might be a different story. I do feed my cat both wet and dry food, but I don't mix them. I like to have her feeding on a schedule to make sure she doesn't get overweight, so she gets dry food in the morning, wet in the evening, and a small bit of dry when I go to bed. I would do what you feel is best, and if you are concerned with the bacteria possibility, then you can always ask your kitten's vet for some advice.

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