Bottle Kitten - suspect Coccidia - how long before Albon works?

I acquired a litter of 3 kittens around 2 weeks old two weeks ago. Their mother had been found deceased--the property owner suspected accidental death. The kittens were in a compost barn on a poultry farm. If you're not familiar - it's a really dirty environment.

One was weak and with an eye infection. The other two seemed fine. Within days one of the healthy ones came down with white diarrhea, I took her to the vet the following day. Her brother, the other healthy one, developed it the day of the vet visit.

The vet gave me lactated ringers to give injections, and Albon to clear up infections. The first to grow ill lost her appetite and died in my hands two days later. Her brother, who had been the strongest of the 3, slowed eating, but then seemed to improve, then took a sudden nosedive and died as well.

The last one, the one that had been the weakest, and with an eye infection, now has bright yellow diarrhea tinged with blood. (but the eye infection is cleared up) I'm still in the course of the Albon, and I'm not seeing any change. He's been on it for four days. There are no emergency vet services within 200 miles of here, so my next chance to see a vet will be tomorrow. He is eating well at the moment, but so was his brother before he nosedived. I don't know how long it should take for the Albon to show a change in his stool, or if maybe there's something other than bacterial or Coccidia going on.

If you know how soon I should see change, or have any insight I would be glad to have it. I lost my 14 year old cat back in February, and had planned to keep these 3 (bottle-feeding makes you get attached) so losing them was really hard. I really don't want to lose this last one, but when the other two nosedived it was so fast and sudden that I'm a nervous wreck.

I would be grateful to know anything that could be suggested. Kitten is now approximately 3.5 weeks old. 6.5 oz, eating milk replacer well, using litter box (so he has some control & ability to predict and hold) but it is bright yellow with tinges of red blood (not dark - bright) and very soft --it looks like mustard with thin streaks of ketchup. I've seen no change in the time he's been on the Albon. Is this normal? Is it too soon? I ask mainly because the Albon didn't save the other two, and I wonder if it was too late, or the wrong med.

I'm going to ask that your thread be moved over to the Kitten forum, as it may get more attention over there.

BTW, thanks for rescuing this little ones

Obviously we cannot diagnose with any certainty here, we can only guess based upon your description and our knowledge and previous experience.  That being said, my experience has been that if Albon is going to work, you will see some improvement within a couple of days, and if not, you need to try something else.  Also, if the first two kittens were pooping totlally white, that sounds like totally undigested milk, and if this third one is pooping bright yellow mixed with blood, that could be milk colored by Albon mixed with a little sloughing of the intestinal mucosa. 

It is possible that the kittens have feline distemper, which destroys their immune system and often destroys all the cells lining the intestine so they cannot digest food.  The nosedive and sudden death even in kittens who are still eating is also common with that disease.  It is fast and deadly.  If this is the case, that might have been the cause of the mother cat's death as well, and if the kittens were infected, then there is nothing more you could have done to save them.  If this little guy makes it until you get back to the vet tomorrow, you could ask him to test if for this -- the parvo test they use for dogs also works for this feline virus, as they are similar.  While vaccination is effective before exposure, it doesn't protect them after they have been exposed.  I hope this isn't the case and that you can save this last kitten, but check with your vet tomorrow in any case.  This is a nasty virus and hangs around, so any other cats that are not vaccinated could be at risk.  Please let us know how this turns out, and we're really sorry for your heartbreak.

White poop/diarrhea is bad, it is considered grossly abnormal and most of the time means a severe bacterial imbalance/infection/infection in bowels.

It can also mean an allergic reaction to lactose, which I had happen with 2 kittens through the years, so not common though.

A kitten with this severe of an infection can't survive, they are just not strong like that.

You mention the third kitten has mustard colored poop with blood. The blood is indicative of an irritant such as coccidia.

 It can also be something else too, such as panleukopenia as red top mentions above.

However, you don't mention vomiting?

Usually in panleuk the diarrhea and vomiting will occur simultaneously, at the end stage of this deadly virus.

6.5 oz is TINY, for a 3.5 week old baby. It should weight that at 1 week or under. Nearing 1 pound now, or at about 4 weeks.

Baby should be double it's weight that it is unfortunately.

As for albon, I bet if your vet did not give you ponazuril he doesn't dispense it.

Too bad, because ponazuril knocks the heck out of coccidia fast, once a day for 3 days or so.

Ponazuril actually kills the coccidia but albon only inhibits it until the kitten is able to rid himself if the coccidia.

It can take a while to see any difference actually. Which is not good for a young kitten like this. 

If this kitten were in my care, I would be sure to get him on clavamox, fortiflora and ponazuril.

But that is what I can/would do, I realize you have to take what the vet offers.

You can always request too, it can't hurt.

The clavamox is as a precaution since the other 2 died from a severe infection of some type.

Do you think kitten is fed enough? You don't want to overfeed, but need to get some weight going there, and soon too!

Do you know or are you able to attach pics?

Thank you everyone for your input!  Will try to answer comments etc.  Kitten is hanging in there so far.  Will get him back to vet in the morning.  So far no vomiting.  He's still got diarrhea, but has eaten well several times today.  He will walk around the floor, cuddle on my lap, crawl out of his box, purr in my hand, and try to escape my lap to go to the litter.  The age estimate could be a little off.  Their eyes were open when they came to me, but just barely.  The vet suggested that meant they were around 2 weeks, but I have certainly known of kittens to open their eyes at 7 days too.  If that's the case he could be nearer 2.5 instead of 3.5 weeks.

He is eating enough by weight - the KMR says 2 oz per day for a kitten of 8 oz, and he's doing around that, but it is slightly diluted to help keep him hydrated.  So by weight he's eating about right.  Don't know how long he was without his mother though--that could have stunted him some.  He is gaining weight - was 6 oz  and constipated when I took him to the vet in the middle of last week.  Now he's 7 oz with diarrhea, so trying to gain in spite of everything.

With the other two they nursed well at first on the bottle--got their rhythm, wiggled ears, everything you want to see in a nursing kitten.  One of the first things to go strange with them was that they stopped nursing that way, and started biting the bottle with their back jaw instead of suckling on it as they had done.  They'd do a few bites with one side and then the other, but wouldn't buckle down and get to nursing business like they had known how to do before.  I don't know if it is indicative, but they both did it--changed their technique, then tanked.  With both they were functioning but sick when I put them to bed for the night, and I got up for a nighttime feeding and found them limp, and very, very dehydrated.  I gave them subcutaneous lactated ringers fluid and kept them warm, but they couldn't hold on.  Little guy hasn't had white diarrhea.  He went from constipated to bright yellow diarrhea.  I hope that means a different issue.  Will ask about different meds tomorrow at the vet and keep you posted.  Should I ask about an anti-diarrhea med of some kind?  I've read that immodium is sometimes used for cats, but not sure if there's an age issue.

And a couple more things I forgot to throw in . . .

If he's not digesting, (indicative of feline distemper if I understand it properly) will the Albon continue to color his stool all day, or just the first 1 or 2 after the dose?

And for long-term planning--if this is feline distemper, how long before I can bring another cat into the house?  (I had fostered some cats for my local rescue since losing my own cat and I--don't want to risk infecting any of those if this goes badly and I find myself doing it again.)

The age estimate would be as you said, off. Vet's surprisingly don't know all that much about new babies. I know, go figure.

They do not know nearly the amt that us in rescue do, so I don't even bother taking babies in, I just do what I know and what is common, and they are fine.

Rare occasion would be something way off and unseen/rare, or when I get a kitten and can clearly see that I am unable to save their eye due to a serious infection, but that's about it!

If their eyes were barely open, that is likely about 7-10 days old. Last summer I had a litter born here, and at 5 days one had eyes completely open, I was shocked! Tiny thing with big round baby eyes looking at me, how cute is that?!

So it makes better sense that he weighs 7 oz. Still def. on the small side, but not as extreme.

I would stop diluting the formula, he needs the nutrition very much.

Actually diluting formula is one way to stop constipation, so concentrating it is better for diarrhea.

I think the 2 who were chewing the nipple likely had very upset tummies, that white poop is bad, and surely hurt them.

I think he is too young for anti-diarrhea med, I would see about getting ponazuril.

Glad to hear he is doing okay.

crowinghen said:

 
And a couple more things I forgot to throw in . . .

If he's not digesting, (indicative of feline distemper if I understand it properly) will the Albon continue to color his stool all day, or just the first 1 or 2 after the dose?

And for long-term planning--if this is feline distemper, how long before I can bring another cat into the house?  (I had fostered some cats for my local rescue since losing my own cat and I--don't want to risk infecting any of those if this goes badly and I find myself doing it again.)

Click to expand...

I'm not sure why you think that albon is coloring his poop.

Was it ever white?

The white poop from his sibs throws me out of possible panleuk. Unless of course it's that along with another major intestinal issue.

I have never had panleuk kittens have white poop.

Plus as I said, if he has had diarrhea for 4 days now, is eating fine though, I seriously doubt it is panleuk. I believe it was a serious/deadly overload of infection/bacteria. As I said, the white is highly indicative of this.

White is a gross bacterial imbalance, deadly.

Yeah, I think with him eating, and as you mentioned walking around, curling on your lap, it doesn't sound like panleuk. He would be lethargic and not wanting to walk at all. Just stay in the same spot mostly. Weak looking.

So for some darn reason he doesn't seem to have it like they did, if at all.

BTW did you get terramycin for his eye from the vet?

Vet didn't give me anything for his eye - I cleaned it up and it was doing well by the time the other issues started in his sibs, vet said it was doing great on its own so didn't prescribe anything, but it's open, clear, and working well now. 

The Albon coloring stool thing was in reference to another post.  I'm sure hoping not.  He was constipated when his sibs started throwing white stool.  When he came out of the constipation it was with this yellow stuff.  His has never been white, but I started him on the Albon two days after his sibs started it.  Didn't exactly mean to, but the vet had given it to me for the 2 with diarrhea, and I, in a sleep-deprived stupor, accidentally dosed him as part of his feeding routine.  By the next day I was glad I had, as he developed diarrhea, so he's had treatment sooner than the other 2. 

The mustard color is pretty common in kmr fed kittens.

Once you adjust the dilution of the formula it might take on a better look too.

I just had a thought and wanted to share this.

If you have been treating the 2 that died with the albon, and are now treating little boy, I hope what they died from was not contagious, as the albon is now infected if so.

Bacterial infections are contagious. Surprised he doesn't have it going on too.

Hoping!!

Had to offer update after a couple of days.

Took kitten to vet & she said at his age can't vaccinate against anything, but keep doing what we're doing.  Didn't have Yesterday he woke up at 3:30 am for a meal & ate fine--nearly 15ml--a lot for 6.5-7 oz..  He ate a little less about 7:30, but an acceptable meal for him.  I left for work & returned at lunch to find him limp, unresponsive, and breathing 4 times per minute.  In his box it looked like his intestines had completely purged.  His third eyelid was showing, and I couldn't get him to blink.  I injected him with lactated ringers, but he stopped breathing right there in my hands.  Having to get back to work, but not willing to throw him away, I put my poor dead kitten, the last of the three, back in his box, so I could bury him when I got home. 

I held it together at work, and sobbed all the way home, asking God why he had to have all 3.  Why couldn't he have left me just one.  I got home and found my kitten awake, standing, weak, but responsive in his box.  He ate sparsely, and still had diarrhea.  It was too late to get to the vet, but I found that vets give immodium, so I filed an appropriate dose off of a tablet with a fingernail file and gave to him.  The diarrhea has stopped, but you can sure tell that stuff is a stimulant.  He's hungry--eating well--playing, but also a little jumpy.  In the long run I'd rather give him an enema than deal with dehydration, and I'm not unhappy about the drive and appetite increase either.  I'm hoping he's turned a real corner--that he's finally getting on top of whatever was trying to get on top of him.  He's still small--less than 1 oz weight gain in the last week, but with him eating well maybe that will do better soon too.

Thanks so much for the compliment, I'm very happy when my advice is helpful!

Okay so here is how marquis paste works.

It is sold in large tubes for horses, I believe it's about 128mls each tube. Often sites who sell it will sell it in 4 tube packs.

There are sites that will sell single tubes, for instance revivalanimal.com

I believe theirs is approx. $200.00.

Your local horse vet may be able to sell a single tube as well.

Vet can order a tube, it has a long shelf life of at least 1 year.

Then when she wants to prescribe it for diarrhea (coccidia) she will only dispense the amt needed and dilute it.

The dilution is 5 mls marquis paste to 12 mls of water.

It then becomes ponazuril, and needs to be kept refrigerated, lasting up to 60 days.

Because of it's long life before dilution, vet invests the initial cost of a tube, but can dispense ALOT from that one tube.

That will treat a tremendous amt of animals, dogs as well.

Dose is 0.1 ml per pound body weight, once a day for 3, 5 or 7 days depending on how bad the coccidia infestation is.

Now, that being said, I did have to adjust the dilution a bit as I was seeing tougher cases and asked another vet we use if the dilution was fine and was told to dilute with water just enough that it was thinned enough to suck up into the syringe, as the paste is thick. 

So I tried this out at approx a 50/50 mixture and was very happy!

Talk about amazing results, I have a large bottle of albon that hasn't been touched since I found ponazuril.

I'm always thrilled when I hear yet another vet is now "onboard" of using ponazuril over albon, since albon only inhibits growth and ponazuril actually kills the coccidia.

"catwoman707"   --   Thank you so much for your quick response.  I copied your extremely helpful message and emailed it to my vet in hopes that they would find it helpful and maybe reconsider getting the medicine.  Thankfully my husband became friends with several horse vets that came to him for flight instruction.  Maybe they can get us a better deal if our regular vet can't.  

I just wanted to ask a few more questions and I want to make sure I have the dose figured correctly.  First off, it must be a very safe medicine because I haven't found one bad thing said about it on the internet.  In fact that didn't seem to be the case for Albon.  Did you ever hear or know of any adverse effects of using ponazuril?  

If I calculated the weight of the cat a pound too high and gave that dose, would that slightly high dose be risky?  I don't think I have the most accurate home scale.  I weighed my two biggest cats and they were 14 pounds. Can I round them up to 15 pounds for dosage and would that dose be 1.5 ml per a cat per a day?  Am I understanding how to figure this correctly:  5 lb kitten x 0.1 ml = .5 ml dose (1/2 ml per day per kitten).  They all weigh slightly different and I was just wondering if I can do approximate weight within a 2 pound range.  Like all adult cats rounded up to 15 pounds and kittens to 5 or 6 pounds; would that be okay.

How many days would you give this medicine if they were yours and would you stick with the 50 / 50 dilution mixture to be certain of positive results?  Some of the cats have just slightly loose bowel movements that end with some blood  (vet said that too was a coccidia symptom).  2 kittens have had continual diarrhea; 1 does cow pies, and the other very watery with a little mucous and blood and tiny tiny whitish grit bits -is that the coccidia cysts? < Have you ever seen that?  Does this Ponazuril kill other worms because I know the outside tomcat has tape worms.  If it doesn't kill those Is it safe to worm him for that at the same time?

You have been just great; so very helpful.  Please know that I am only wondering what exactly you would do for your pets and I am obviously not holding anyone responsible but me.  These sweet kitties would have all died or been eaten by predators by now if I hadn't taken in their mama.  I am just desperate to do what I can and get them relief for their horrible diarrhea and gassy tummies.  Lately it feels like my whole life has revolved around their sickness and cleaning up after them and it is heartbreaking to think I could loose "Pipsqueek" who tends to have some bad days.  Pedialyte and silver biotics and pumpkin always seems to help him get better ...just not completely well.  But none of them act sickly.  They are all very playful.  I finally have hope that this will soon be resolved thanks to your info about Ponazuril.

Take care,

Lisa

Lisa, I just realized you weren't the original poster on this thread!

@crowinghen  I'm sorry to have highjacked your thread! My mistake, and the new member doesn't know any different.

Perhaps the info on ponazuril might be helpful to you as well.

Lisa, (btw we have the same name it's no surprise the harm that diarrhea is capable of doing. So hearing about Pipsqueak doesn't surprise me either.

I have to be clear that I am not a veterinarian, and am giving you information about what I did okay?

I was very happy with the results of the 50/50 dilution.

I dose mine according to their approx. weight, as in, if they were over 1 1/2 lbs I gave them 0.2 mls.

In adults same thing, I recently gave a 9.7 lb cat 1.0 mls.

If you have a 1 ml syringe, have you ever drawn up 0.1 ml of anything and squirt it in your hand? It's VERY small amt.

No, I have never had nor heard any adverse side effects of ponazuril, just lots of positive things about it.

This doesn't mean to go overboard either. Always be cautious when giving any medications to cats/kittens of course.

When I'm treating several kittens with varying diarrhea, some will be on it a shorter period of time. Each was on it according to their own issue. Oftentimes after the first 2 doses (2 days) I will already see an improvement. This is the beauty of this med!

If I have one who is treated for up to 7 days and doesn't seem completely rid of it, give it a break of a week, and I would retreat. That hasn't happened much, maybe a few times but usually it's wiped out.

No, ponazuril doesn't kill worms. I would not deworm at the same time. You never want to give their bodies more than what they can easily handle.

Okay, maybe an adult cat I might, but not a kitten.

Depending on the worm treatment.

Tapeworm med is usually stronger. I use pyrantel for roundworms in kittens/cats.

Okay, that answered my questions.  And your right that I am not exactly sure how this posting works.  I figured the subject of the kittens above with the same coccidia problem as mine would be okay to comment on and that it would most likely alert you since you had already been posting on this thread.  Sorry if I caused any trouble or hurt anyone.

I told you wrong about treating the mom cat with pyrantel.  It was a different med called Panacur or something when Albon didn't help.  Neither helped at all.  The Pyrantel was what the kittens got at around 6 weeks for worms.

It is very comforting to know your thoughts on the safety of Ponazuril.  I will be careful and only round up a half pound.  For a 13.5 lb I will dose 1.4 ml.  Yes, I know how tiny of a dose that is which will be all the easier to give to the cats!  Do they hate the taste or do I need to add a tiny bit of tuna juice to help it go down without a fight?  I have dealt with many med needs for many different sorts of animals.  I worked at a vet for a while plus with horses, cats, and dogs we got used to doing injections ourselves plus things like syringe feeding very ill animals, draining abscesses and cutting away necrotic tissue and such.  Not experts but certainly experienced with some animal ailments and certainly not too squeamish to deal with them.  Plus we both went to Farriers school years back and were a husband and wife farrier team for 7 years which gave us more animal care experience ...along with broken down backs.  I love animals but can't handle the death part well.  Even when they aren't my own.  When I worked at the vet years ago, before flea treatments like Frontline, I would offer to bathe and flea dip all the cats (which the other helpers hated doing) just to get out of helping with any euthanasia.  It isn't good to be too soft-hearted but I can't seem to help it.  Well at least I got lots of experience and I figured out many tricks for keeping cats calm and happy for baths and all without eve being rough with them. 

I will most likeley do the 50 /50 dilution; absolutely no stronger and I will adjust the days per how bad of a case each cat has ...making sure that each gets at least 3 days and the worse ones get 5 to 7 days.  How great that I will most likely see results in 3 days or less!!!!  I will completely de-worm the one outsite tomcat the week before I start him on Ponazuril.

Funny about our names but I imagine you want me to refer to your username when I post.  

I think I have got this figured out thanks to you.  Thanks again for so much help,

Lisa

You didn't cause any trouble!! Not at all, it's fine.

We are all here for the same reasons, to share stories and offer advice and support, looking out for the best care we can give our cats and others out there, so I'm sure nobody will get offended, in fact it happens all the time!

Yes, panacur is a good dewormer also. But worms, not coccidia so it doesn't surprise me that it was no help.

However it is a good protocol to turn to as well.

Yes, calling me Lisa won't send me an email update )

Good name though!  

Ponazuril is not good tasting. Thankfully it's only once a day.

The farther back you shoot it in their throat the less they will taste it.

Not as bad as some others though like clavamox, doxy, oh yeah that's a really bad one....

One last note, do not stop as soon as you see good poop, as it may return from not being completely gone quite then.

BTW, I am a big softie too when it comes to dying or euthanizing. Ugh....

crowinghen, hope you can give another update on your amazing little kitten.  Wishing and praying for all the best. 

Hi all!

No worries about post-hijacking.  I am the worst about letting conversations run in all directions, and think absolutely nothing of it!  I'm glad to see everyone help.  Little guy is here on my lap as I type.  He's slowly putting on weight, and feels well enough to follow me around the house when I put him down on the floor.  If he gets lost he cries until I come and find him, then runs to me like a puppy.  He woke up twice last night for meals.  (he sleeps next to my bed in a box so I can hear him).  He's feeling good enough to play.  He'll "bite" (as much as he can without teeth) my fingers and toes, and fight with my hands, and purr when I pet him.  I've kept him on the Albon realizing that if his immune system had been compromised he may need the extra help a bit longer.  Not sure when to take him off of it, but not running short, so may keep it up for a bit to make sure he is ready to fight of germs on his own.  He came to me 2.5 weeks ago, and was at least a week old then, so will be trying some canned food soon.  He's a little constipated still, but would rather address that than the far-reaching consequences of diarrhea.  It's at least not stripping him of nutrients or dehydrating him.  I'm optimistic.  Knowing he's too young to vaccinate, I know we're not out of the woods yet, but certainly showing promise now. 

Oh!  And I learned that vitamin B can stimulate appetite so I started spiking his bottle with a pinch of nutritional yeast, and he eats like a horse now.  Not sure it's the nutritional yeast, but it's one I'll keep in my back pocket to try again for sure!

crowinghen,   I am so happy and relieved to hear that your little one has improved so much!!!