Cat Introduction Woes

feralvr · Sep 11, 2014

I am sorry you are sick... :hugs:

and hope you feel better soon. Tempest definitely does not like her space invaded that way and this is very, very common. I have a girl like that and a boy who still likes to tease her but they live quite harmoniously together. The girls can be very loud too and make it seem like it is much worse than it really is in "cat talk". Separating them is fine OR having somewhere she can retreat to where Sinbad can't really get to her is a plus. This process can be very long and arduous on the guardian so take a deep breath. This is all part of them figuring out their boundaries with each other and Tempest trying to let Sinbad know when he has gone to far. I never separated my girl and my naughty boy but made it clear to Wendall that I was not happy with him chasing Perla OR cornering her. He never makes contact but closes in on her to tease her. My Wendall is just a brat and I think Sinbad is not, he is just really wanting to play. In time, Tempest will realize that he is not a threat but more of a nuisance and begin to calm down a bit over his advances. :cross: I am hoping for the BEST for your two kitties. :vibes:

losna · Sep 13, 2014

Had some good news! Tempest is still growling! But we spoke with the pres of the shelter again today (well, the hubby did) and learned that's the next stage in Tempest moving toward accepting another resident kitty!

It seems backwards to me, but as shelter fosters they were constantly introducing new cats into their home, and they said she moves from fleeing to growling and swatting to cautious tolerance ... and that's the furthest they've ever seen from her due to the constant flux of cats coming and going.

Our hope is that it being a stable house here, with only Sinbad means she'll come to accept him beyond that, and they agree that's certainly possible if not likely as the two of them settle down!

They also keep trying to get us to take more kitties. I don't think we're doing anything more than being caring responsible pet owners, but apparently we're demonstrating remarkable care and affection and they wish more people were like us. They even have a solution to the licensing problem with our town's regulations, they offered to make us registered fosters, we'd just be a permanent foster for whatever cats we adopted. But I don't want more than two kitties, so I'm just taking that as a compliment.

So three cheers for that!!

Thanks for the well wishes @mickNsnicks2mom and @Feralvr !

losna · Sep 21, 2014

Time for an update:

Tempest came out of her room on her own yesterday, and spent some time prowling around on the landing. Until Sinbad realized she was there, and we had another cat fight.

But all is not lost, a surprising rainbow came out of the experience. We have noticed that the worst of her hostile moments come after Sinbad has been somewhere in the house getting attention - when he has long purring jags, and in the morning after he's been snuggling with us all night are when she's the most hostile.

So this time, my husband took an afghan I'd crocheted and went in to nap with her. He decided he'd spend all day with her in her room, and just have me feed both of them through the gate.

1404785_557678444337010_4485666384331958433_o.jpg

losna
Sep 21, 2014
1

We're not sure if she likes the texture, that we gave it to her, that it smells like both of us (because I made it, and the husband sleeps on it quite often), but whatever the reason, we'll take it. I wouldn't call them friends, but it's now 1:30 and we haven't heard a single growl or hiss since their fight yesterday.

smokem · Sep 22, 2014

oh yay!!progress,she sure is beautiful.

feralvr · Sep 23, 2014

Love it !!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a pretty kitty AND a pretty purple afghan. She looks very good against purple too. Guess she knows it because she looks like a professional model in the photo. :bigthumb: :high5: Your husband is just awesome to have spent all day in her room with her. :clap:

I bet that has helped Tempest tremendously as well and now she really, really feels the love. :lol3: I have to laugh at the blanket because it is like a baby crying for her blankie and when you give her the blankie, the crying stops! Excellent progress. :clap:

losna · Sep 23, 2014

Yeah, I'd like to spend more time with her, but Sinbad still panics when I'm away from him too long. He's getting much better, but he's still not willing to share me when sharing me means he can't get at me while another cat is playing with me. So until she gets along with him enough to wander the house freely, I'm stuck stealing moments here and there.

We've spread the blanket right up against the gate, so she has to be sitting/standing on it to be close enough to be growling and swiping at Sinbad. She's done it once or twice now, but things do seem to continue progressing pretty well. Here's to hoping. We'd all really like her to be a real part of the family.

Treats seem to be helping.

Which in itself is progress. When they first arrived she wouldn't eat at all if he was anywhere near the door (even with it being closed all the time then), and she ignored treats entirely.

MoochNNoodles · Sep 23, 2014

That is great progress! And I loved the afghan too! It matches my kitchen!

micknsnicks2mom · Oct 11, 2014

@Losna -- how are your tempest and sinbad doing? are they getting more comfortable around each other?

losna · Oct 14, 2014

@mickNsnicks2mom - Sorry for the delayed reply on this!

I'm not really sure what to report in terms of progress. I want to say they're improving, but behaviorally there is nothing different, it just feels like they are getting along better.

There've been 2 notable events -

1) We did decide to try adding a third cat to the mix. The shelter where we got Sinbad and Tempest think we're great cat people, so they gave us a cat that they thought would get along well to foster for a week to see how it would go. It didn't work out and we had to return him the very next day. But we did learn something valuable - Sinbad didn't mind sharing the house at all, but he is horribly terribly jealously possessive of me. He and the cat played with each other with a string toy right up until I paid attention to Otis - then it was world war 3. I called Vicky (the shelter president) and described what was going on, she sent her husband to come and get Otis immediately. She knew exactly what I was describing, and said that Sinbad's territory was me. She recommended that we not take a third cat - that must have been very hard for her to say as she and her husband have been trying to convince us to become fosters for the shelter!

So now we know that option is completely off the table, which is a good thing to know. We don't have to waste time considering it now. One interesting thing - Sinbad took refuge with Tempest once we separated him and Otis. He went to Tempest's room and sat right outside, and she seemed to be trying to comfort him. She stayed out of sight but she made soft mirring type sounds at him until Phil came and took Otis away.

2) Sinbad has been learning how to climb. He is practicing by attempting to scale the gate that leads into Tempest's room. The other day while (presumably) he was climbing, the top gate fell down. I was in the kitchen and heard the clatter, then a cat fight. I shouted STOP!!! --- And they actually stopped! All growls, hisses and clawing sounds actually stopped! When I got to the landing to Tempest's room, both of them were simply staring at each other through the bottom half of the gate. Sinbad, much to his credit, did not try to enter the room, even though he could have very easily entered with the top gate down.

I view it as a positive sign that they are behaving the same way they always do even after that. I expected it to cause a setback and make Tempest cautious again, but it really doesn't seem to have done anything.

lyrajean · Oct 14, 2014

mickNsnicks2mom said:
oh, that's so wonderful -- playing "patty cakes"!

it may be that sinbad staying close to comfort tempest during the storms has gotten tempest started feeling more comfortable with sinbad.

We called that game "patti-paw". When I returned from Japan with Aya we did a long intro that lasted better part of 3 mos with our resident cat Midori. Aya had charge of a spare bedroom and Both cats were let out occassionaly to explore. Our doors however do not go to the floor and curious paws were taking swats at each other. At first there was hissing, mostly from Aya she is the high-strung one. then it was more playful. They did learn to live together and share space (i.e. the same queen size bed) although were never snuggle buddies. This lasted from Spring of 2011 until Midori became ill last winter and we sent her over the bridge.

It sounds like things are getting better with Sinbad and Tempest. Hang in there. They could still make a good pair.

micknsnicks2mom · Oct 15, 2014

Losna said:
@mickNsnicks2mom - Sorry for the delayed reply on this!

I'm not really sure what to report in terms of progress. I want to say they're improving, but behaviorally there is nothing different, it just feels like they are getting along better.

There've been 2 notable events -

1) We did decide to try adding a third cat to the mix. The shelter where we got Sinbad and Tempest think we're great cat people, so they gave us a cat that they thought would get along well to foster for a week to see how it would go. It didn't work out and we had to return him the very next day. But we did learn something valuable - Sinbad didn't mind sharing the house at all, but he is horribly terribly jealously possessive of me. He and the cat played with each other with a string toy right up until I paid attention to Otis - then it was world war 3. I called Vicky (the shelter president) and described what was going on, she sent her husband to come and get Otis immediately. She knew exactly what I was describing, and said that Sinbad's territory was me. She recommended that we not take a third cat - that must have been very hard for her to say as she and her husband have been trying to convince us to become fosters for the shelter!

So now we know that option is completely off the table, which is a good thing to know. We don't have to waste time considering it now. One interesting thing - Sinbad took refuge with Tempest once we separated him and Otis. He went to Tempest's room and sat right outside, and she seemed to be trying to comfort him. She stayed out of sight but she made soft mirring type sounds at him until Phil came and took Otis away.

2) Sinbad has been learning how to climb. He is practicing by attempting to scale the gate that leads into Tempest's room. The other day while (presumably) he was climbing, the top gate fell down. I was in the kitchen and heard the clatter, then a cat fight. I shouted STOP!!! --- And they actually stopped! All growls, hisses and clawing sounds actually stopped! When I got to the landing to Tempest's room, both of them were simply staring at each other through the bottom half of the gate. Sinbad, much to his credit, did not try to enter the room, even though he could have very easily entered with the top gate down.

I view it as a positive sign that they are behaving the same way they always do even after that. I expected it to cause a setback and make Tempest cautious again, but it really doesn't seem to have done anything.

maybe sinbad and tempest are feeling more relaxed around/with each other...? at the very least, it sounds as though your sinbad and tempest haven't had a setback.

awwww..........tempest comforted sinbad. and sinbad sounds like a very smart boy!

i'm just beginning an integration of a foster cat (who i'll eventually adopt, hopefully), jasper, with my snick. i hadn't thought of fostering, but things just kind of happened that firmly pointed me in that direction. jasper has only been with me and snick since wednesday, so we've only done the very beginnings so far.

losna · Oct 18, 2014

mickNsnicks2mom said:
maybe sinbad and tempest are feeling more relaxed around/with each other...? at the very least, it sounds as though your sinbad and tempest haven't had a setback.

awwww..........tempest comforted sinbad. and sinbad sounds like a very smart boy!

i'm just beginning an integration of a foster cat (who i'll eventually adopt, hopefully), jasper, with my snick. i hadn't thought of fostering, but things just kind of happened that firmly pointed me in that direction. jasper has only been with me and snick since wednesday, so we've only done the very beginnings so far.

The shelter where we got them does fostering - the cats only go into cages once a week for a few hours for adoptions.

We did have an odd upset today, that I'm not sure what to do about-

I was home alone today, and while doing dishes in the kitchen I heard a LOT of noise from Tempest's room. So I went up to investigate. Nothing seemed to be going on - Sinbad was camped out in front of the gate as usual, Tempest was lolling around on her scratching post. But then she saw me.

Her head whipped up, ears forward, and she charged me. Full on charge, complete with an amazing jump that sent her up on top of the gate gate directly in front of me. She's never done anything like that before, I have no idea what it was about. Before I'd even gotten beyond surprise, what is going on? Sinbad jumped up to defend me. He's never been able to get more than about halfway up the two gates, but this time he was intent on defending me and he got all the way up to stop Tempest from getting near me.

There was no hissing, no growling, it was the very weirdest thing. But now both of them are completely depressed. Tempest is hiding all the way in the back of the room, where she hasn't been since the first week we got her, just lying there squeezed into the corner. And Sinbad is roving from hiding spot to hiding spot, moping as well.

I have no idea what happened, or what to do. It's been this way all day now. Not even treats was enough to interest either of them. Neither of them even wants to play. If we try to pet them, they move away. They just lie there, looking sad.

micknsnicks2mom · Oct 19, 2014

@Losna -- the shelter where our jasper came from only uses foster homes, no shelter facility and no cages. that's part of why i really like that shelter and knew that i would eventually adopt from them. i like to support organizations who make it even better for the cats in their care.

oh, wow! that sounds like an unusual event and unusual reactions from tempest and sinbad. have you and your DH tried each talking with them? i mean, you talk to sinbad and your dh talks to tempest. maybe try telling them that they're such wonderful and good cats, and that you love them very much. then explain to sinbad that tempest was just playing and got a little excited and started running around, and that tempest would never hurt you. thank him for protecting you and tell him how brave he is. and for tempest, your dh could start out the same, telling her that she's a wonderful and good girl, who is loved very much. then explain that sinbad didn't understand that she was only playing, and he thought that maybe you might get hurt so was protecting you. tell them both that it's okay, everything is fine, and that these little misunderstandings happen. the important thing is to forgive each other so they can be friends again.

i talk with my snick and jasper a lot. i talk with each cat about the other cat and how nice it will be when they're both comfortable with each other and can share the whole house and both spend time with mommy all the time. i tell them how good they are and how brave while we work through this integration together. i believe it helps to talk to them and encourage them.

losna · Oct 19, 2014

@mickNsnicks2mom We talk to them all the time.

Actually my talking to cats is sort of infamous around here because we took in my hubby's grandmother's cat when she was in the hospital ... and I taught Lila how to talk when she was with us. A few days after hubby's granny was out of the hospital and home and had Lila back, she said to my hubby: What did you two do to my cat?!?! She was always so nice and quiet and now she talk talk talks all the time!!!

But back to Sinbad and Tempest... After this weird thing happened, I told both of them that they are each very important members of the house. That we loved both of them, and neither of them was going anywhere. So we wanted to help them get along. I told Sinbad that it was awesome he was so eager to welcome Tempest, but he had to understand that he's bigger than she is and she's scared of him so he has to be more patient and give her time. I told Tempest that she was free to come out at any time (she can come and go if she wants to, she's easily able to climb the gate), and we want her to come out, but that she needs to understand Sinbad is a part of the house too.

The really cute thing was both of them paid complete and utter attention to me while I was telling them this, they completely understood I was trying to tell them something important. They watched me seriously while I was talking to them, and when I finished and said, "Ok?" they each meowed.

Sinbad seems to have a much greater understanding of what we tell him than Tempest does though. If I tell him I'll give him attention in a few minutes, I just need to finish what I'm doing - more often than not he'll actually sit down and wait. If I tell him I'll play with him, he runs to the living room where his toys are. If I tell him it's time for a snuggle nap, he'll run to the bedroom and jump into the bed.

micknsnicks2mom · Oct 19, 2014

@Losna -- that's a cute, funny story! quiet cats are much different than more vocal cats. my snick has become so much more vocal as she's gotten older. snick is part siamese, which i think is part of the reason (her medical issues are, i think, another part of the reason).

awww......that's so sweet -- what you told them and how they listened and replied/meowed!

sinbad sounds like a very smart boy!

i'm the only human here, so i do a lot of talking to snick and now jasper.

losna · Oct 27, 2014

An update here as well, because there was an interesting development this weekend.

Saturday, Tempest had her first vet visit since we adopted her - this was the very first time she's ever left our house. And she was so terrified. Not of the vet, but it was very clear she thought we were abandoning her. The poor thing has been abandoned so many times that it never ceases to amaze that she's not given up entirely on people. She's a really amazing cat, I can't believe how anyone could have ever abandoned her, let alone so many people so many times!

She kept climbing up into my hubby's shirt trying to hide, clinging to him in an attempt to not be abandoned. It was both touching and heart rending.

But then the visit ended, and we went home. The first thing we noticed was how different the car ride home was from the car ride there. On the way there, Tempest cried the whole time and tried to get out of the carrier. On the way home she was quiet. She pressed her little face against the grill, looking out with a sort of bewildered not quite daring to hope expression.

Then she was up in her room again and the carrier open. And boy was she excited! She jumped out and tore around her room, happily throwing all her toys into the air. Then she dropped into her favorite sleeping place and purred.

She still won't play with Sinbad, and she still seems to want to avoid him. But somehow the visit to the vet seems to have convinced her that she really does live here. She now comes out of her room all the time, and has actually gone down the stairs a few times to start exploring. And Sinbad no longer scares her. She runs away from him, but it's very different now. It's more like she just doesn't want to interact with him, than that she's afraid of interacting with him like she was before.

I am more hopeful than I've ever been - she finally seems like she's settling in. She made a few tries last night to get into our room with us, and since the vet visit she's spent more time outside her room than in it. I'm hoping she and Sinbad can reach an accord now that she seems to finally realized that she lives here too.

Who knew getting a thermometer shoved up her behind and a needle stabbed into her leg would have such a positive effect?

smokem · Oct 27, 2014

Poor baby..guess she thought you were temporary.

mani · Oct 27, 2014

That is so sweet.. I imagine that, before, 'the car ride' meant it was all over, and now you've proved it wrong.

micknsnicks2mom · Oct 27, 2014

@Losna -- oh, how sweet! i loved reading about how tempest "tore around her room, happily throwing all her toys into the air" when she got back home!

losna · Oct 27, 2014

@smokem - Yeah, it seems so. I guess I don't blame her, given the number of times she's been abandoned. We know about 4 - once she was just dumped on the streets while pregnant.

@Mani - Hopefully! We think it was especially scary since the vet we use is the one associated with the shelter where we got them. Before they were able to get their own location, kitty city used that vet's office for their saturday adoption times. I've seen it said that you should use a different vet than the one the shelter where you adopt from uses, but we haven't liked any of the other vets that we've tried so we decided to stick with these guys. So it was a car ride back to the same place she'd been brought back to before. We were worried about that, but there was nothing to do about it.

@mickNsnicks2mom - Yeah, it was pretty cute! She was grabbing her toys in her mouth, tossing them high into the air and jumping to claw at them on the way down. The funniest of them was when she threw the pillow sham she likes to sit on into the air. She flung it up, reared up on her back legs to kick it back up with her front legs, then flopped onto her back to keep tossing it up with all 4 feet. She did that for a few minutes before realizing she'd rolled into her favorite sleeping place at which point it was allowed to land so she could snuggle up and purr at my hubby.

She's also started making a new sound since saturday. It's a high pitched sort of excited sound that reminds me of a chimpanzee. She makes it when my hubby goes up to her room to play with her.

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