Pregnant Semi-Feral

Hi

As of last Friday (9th) I've taken in a semi-feral cat who is heavily pregnant.  Most of the feral-born kittens born here do not even make it past the first few weeks due to illness or predators, last year one died in my arms, another is my little monster Mithra.  Lucky, as I've name her, her last litter was never found and I'm rather taken with her as she always follows or approaches me for food, though she is likely too nervous to become a happy house-cat especially with my 2 crazy boy cats who hiss at her.

I plan on TNR once she is finished weaning the kittens if possible as the vet suggested this. If I can afford it ($50!) I might microchip her unless that's weird? She and the others are taken care of outside and she's been living here happily for years.

The vet could not get a close look except to confirm she is pregnant, as she is very defensive and will not allow touch. She does sniff me very calmly, slow-blink at me and will even eat food from my hand if offered, but any touch is completely alien to her. He says she looks healthy and may be due in a couple of weeks, guess he did not notice she gets occasional eye discharge but it seems minor. He would not be comfortable sedating her if it is avoidable as can only tell me how many kittens she is having to which he figured "What difference does it make?". It seems she does not have fleas either which I find bizarre for any outside animal.

I've cut a large hold into the side of a huge sealed cardboard box, as she was not using the big hooded litter tray (brand new with door removed) though I might switch back.  She uses litter (most ferals do in my experience). She has only once been seen in the box though. I assume she'll not have them on anything but bedding?

So,

1. What is best in terms of bedding or nesting box? Cardboard I have right now or the huge plastic Van Ness hooded litter box?

2. I have read that people are safe to move the kittens to another box or bedding but am unsure how this works with a cat like her? Should I just leave well off until they are walking?

3. Her nipples look rather odd, almost like crusted, but I cannot see all of them. I've attached a photo as I think this is concerning. What do you think?

4. How can you tell if she is producing enough milk?  And does number of enlarged nipples indicate number of kittens?

5. If all goes well for her and the babies, how long should I wait before separating them from mum?

6. Any general tips for how to feed or look after her and the little ones?

7. No fleas = a sickness?  If she has FiV will the kittens have it and how careful must I be with my own 2? She's living comfortably in a 42" L X 28" W X 30" H crate.

Sorry for the barrage of questions, it's just, as nice as the vet was (did not charge, anyway) I do not know who to ask about these sort of things.

Thank you so much for any advice! I'd be so grateful.  :}

 Big Momma (AKA: "Lucky") 

1. It really doesn't matter much, it depends on what she seems to prefer I guess.  Just make sure they are as comfortable and inviting as possible.

2.  Not positive I 100% understand what you are getting at here but many times people do move the kittens to clean bedding after the birth, yes.  I see no reason why you could not do so here. You will definitely need to at least change the bedding well before they are walking 

3. Not sure, hopefully someone else will chime in.

4.  You know by weighing the kittens daily.  You should do this at the same time every day , in the sight of mom, and as quickly as possible. No number of enlarged nipples has no relation to number of kittens.

5. 6 to 8 weeks,  but if it's certain you wont have trouble trapping them, I tend to advocate waiting until 8 weeks.  You shouldn't wait longer though.

6.  She should be getting a high quality kitten food, as much as she wants.  As for the rest, do you have specific questions? Mom should do most of the work if all goes well.

7. I don't understand what you mean by no fleas = a sickness.  You should get her checked out by a vet if possible to ensure she doesn't have anything your own two can catch, yes. Do you mean  FIV or FELV? FELV can certainly be passed to kittens by mom yes, both in the womb and through milk. FIV is the same.  Yes. She can definitely infect the kittens if she's sick.

Good for you, taking in that feral mom to be.  You have a lot of questions, and we have a good collection of articles in the Cat Health section which you can access by scrolling up to the brown bar, clicking on Articles,and then choosing the Cat Health section and scrolling through the choices.  However, to make this super easy for you, I am copying the relevant links in here. Just click on any title and you will be taken to the article. After reading this information, let me know if they didn't answer all your questions and I'll do my best to answer.  You may also want to look in the Ferals & Rescue forum for discussions specifically pertaining to feral moms and babies.  I know there have been a lot of those lately.

Birth, Delivery and Newborns

View media item 212113Cat Pregnancy

How to Tell if My Cat is Pregnant?

Pregnant Cat? What to Prepare For the Birth

Help! My Cat is Having Kittens!

Post-Birth Complications in Cats

How Do I Know When My Cat Will Give Birth?

Premature Kittens

Thanks so much, it's all really helpful.  I bought kitten food (By Nature and Innova) for her, she doesn't like the Innova though. I usually give 3 meals of 3oz or a bit more, with some KMR milk occasionally, but perhaps she needs much more. Her fur (as seen in photos) looks more red than black so she might not be the most well nourished kitty atm.

I suppose I was asking about diseases she might pass on just in case it was worth separating her from the kittens to prevent it, but I really don't want to do that as I think she is their best chance to survive. I suppose if she has anything they'll already have inherited it, but I once heard kittens can test positive for FiV and such before 6 months when their immune systems kick in? I kinda feel like I'm butting in by keeping her inside but after last time (when I failed to trap her in the night before she had her kittens) it feels like the right thing to do for the kittens if nothing else.

I was just worried about moving the babies in case I spook her into rejecting them. She's contained so I hope if something needs doing she will tolerate it, but I'll keep it to a minimum.  I've put comfy fleece blanket in the box and she's slept on it a couple of times today so it's looking good.  She's completely contained from my 2 boys with the crate and they stand back and hiss then carry on. She's pretty okay with them as she is with the ferals around the neighbourhood.

Thanks very much Red Top. Those links are amazingly helpful and I'll be reading them more thoroughly tomorrow morning. I love this forum for it's helpful members and articles!   One of the articles already put my mind at ease as it says "The cat may lick it off or it may dry up and show as small whitish scabs on the nipples. Our member HeavensKitty  described this in a recent post: "Her milk is coming down a little; she has like dried up white scabbies on the tip."

I guess it's normal then.  I imagine I'll be able to tell once they've arrived as kittens mew and she'll probably make a mess before labour starts. Whether ferals yeowl or not is anyone's guess. I'm worried she'll go into labour when I'm sleeping but I think she knows best what to do, besides that, I doubt having me there will be more than a bother to a feral-ish lady.

She's super cute as whenever she's alone for a while she starts to meow softly. :}

 
I was just worried about moving the babies in case I spook her into rejecting them. She's contained so I hope if something needs doing she will tolerate it, but I'll keep it to a minimum.  I've put comfy fleece blanket in the box and she's slept on it a couple of times today so it's looking good.  She's completely contained from my 2 boys with the crate and they stand back and hiss then carry on. She's pretty okay with them as she is with the ferals around the neighbourhood.

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Nay, they dont rejects their kittens because you touched them.  This is a myth.

What can happen is YOU can get yourself a lesson if she is nervous and high strung enough.  But as long you move them or weigh them sensibly, it shouldnt happen.  A hiss perhaps, not more.

In normal cases, they dont always deliver in their nest.  They deliver somewhere else, and take the kittens to the clean nest after delivery is done.

IF she delivers in the nest, you must of course help with changing of the bed, it will be soiled.  After it  you must change the bedding now and then.  The easiest is probably to have an extra bed, and put over the kittens in this extra bed, change the sheets, and put them back.   As long mom is seeing you and the kittens, and sees there is no danger for the kittens, and they not protesting much, she will allow these maneuvers.

After all, she is not stupid, she understands you are helping them and taking care.

Re the risk for contagion.

Residents:

Fiv is very low contagious, so you can forget it for now.

Felv is more contagious, but the real danger is if they bite each other.  Ie if she bites them deeply.

As she is contained, there is no real danger here either.

What is contagious, is distemper.  As she is already inside, and they near enough to hiss, so the deed is already done.  But as she seems healthy, she doesnt has it.

Kittens.

Nay, dont separete them just in the case  IF POSSIBLY.   If you knew for sure she is sick, it could be an idea to

search for extraordinaire solutions.  But not now. Here we do a normal, bread and butter situation,  so just proceed with plan A.

Some succesfull ferales dont have fleas or parasites, or in any case, has very few and manage them well.

Which is of course a part for them being succesfull ferales.

Good luck!

Thanks so much, that does put my mind at rest.  Hopefully it will all go smoothly.

Today she let me pet her head while she was eating, it took a few slow tries but she realised it was nothing bad, I wish I knew someone good to home her with who has the patience, room and experience. I'll see and if she mellow enough maybe she will be adoptable with the right rescue groups. She's so calm and sweet a cat.

Still eagerly waiting for little ones to arrive.  :}

Hi

I wasn't sure whether this needed a new thread or not.  I have a question about separation age.

Just updating to say that she has given birth to 5 kittens on the 27th.


They are all healthy looking however she has gone from semi-feral to tiger.  I cannot handle or socialise the kittens with her there and I do not think she is going to change her mind as she should know by now I'm no threat.  This also means I am unable to change any bedding or in fact clean much of the cage as she no longer allows me to sweep with the dustpan and brush!

My vet informed me that I should have her spayed once they are 4-5 (well, weaned) weeks and then release her.  I'm wondering what are people's opinions on this?  Take into account that she and the kittens would be living in a crate as I do not have the room to let them all run around with my cats, and mother will have my eyes out if I get too near.  Most I could do is open the crate with my 2 cats locked in the bedroom but I don't want to end up unable to get her or the kittens back in the crate.

My tabby, Meiko, he was about 4-5 weeks when we adopted him and he has turned out very well behaved.  What would you do if you had 5 kittens that needed to be socialised and a defensive momma cat?

Can you get a Feliway diffuser in there?   Calm relaxing music on??   There may surely also be other calming tricks and preparates.

Otherwise, I can agree with you.   If she is still SO highly strung and defensive, it may be best to separate her from them when they are about 4-5 weeks, and you proceed to socialize them on your own.    And spay her and release.

Most often, they arent THAT high strung.  But I suppose exceptions does occur.

Plan on parallell courses, use these calming tricks, and non stressing tricks.  If she does calm, sweet and well, if not, you proceed with your Plan B.

Good luck!

I agree with your vet!  Currently, I have 3 different feral litters that I have taken from the moms. It is heartbreaking to do that to a mother but it is what is best for her babies. You can keep the babies inside and then take them outside for airings, during which time the mama cat can see her babies are okay.  this is about the only way that she and her kittens will have an optimistic future - they will all be spayed, neutered, vaccinated and the kittens will have the opportunities to become pampered housecats.

that calico has a stunning coat already!

Bless you for going above and beyond in helping that precious mama-kitty during her time of need.  You have done what too few do - broken the cycle of homeless,feral cats and I salute you for it

Sidenote:

here are a couple of tips that I have used for the same situation:

1.if space permits, you can give mamakitty a small box with access holes cut into it, to make a cave for her to hide in when you want to access the cage for cleaning.  This will give her a feeling of safety and she won't be so defensive. Don't worry if she moves the babies into it full time because about 3 wks of age, they will come out and they won't be afraid of you and you might even be able to pick them up occasionally. also, the box gives them an extra shelf to get up on, even if it is only a few inches from the ceiling.  when you are placing the box into the crate, she will probably get frantic, so be alerted to attempted escaping - remember, it's like dealing with horses & CALM 'N STEADY behavior on your part will influence the successful outcome.

2. Cover all or part of the crate when you need to access it - this also prevents her feeling so vulnerable.

Thank you so much, both. I don't feel so mean now.  She is completely covered with blankets over the crate.

I think I will be going with plan B as she is extremely difficult and as of yet has not allowed any handling or changing of the nest. I'm normally a clean freak where bedding and such is concerned.  It's not that she is super aggressive, more that she just does not trust me and is naturally protective. If I even try to slip a new blanket next to the box, she will have me.  The nest looks filthy (never changed since the birth! Gross) however the kittens look clean and healthy.  I cannot weigh them or handle them at all though, not sure whether it matters at this age. Their eyes are still closed and they are 10 days old.

I know that if outside, she would have been moving them to cleaner locations, or so I reckon. Or am I better off just leaving it and hoping once they walk about they will come out, then move them? Not sure I can handle 8 weeks of her treating me like the enemy is all.

I have tried getting her into another crate, and using a Havahart trap (initially how I caught her) and she will not fall for it.  Anyone know a better way to capture her just to keep her away for a minute so I can change the bedding?  I did get her out of the cage and closed the door to it, trying to trap her in a second smaller crate but she panicked and I had to let her back in as she wasn't contained anyway.  

As much as it pains me, I don't see another way than to release her after they are eating solid food. Presumably at 4 weeks?

They can't stay in the crate either when they are walking around since my other 2 cats would definitely want to get at them. They would probably look like overgrown mice to them.

AmyRose said:

 
Thank you so much, both. I don't feel so mean now.  She is completely covered with blankets over the crate.
 
They can't stay in the crate either when they are walking around since my other 2 cats would definitely want to get at them. They would probably look like overgrown mice to them.

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the situation with dirty nest is probably adding to her high stress.  So it is a sort of selv propelling spirale...

You do and you try everything right, but have no luck....  You didnt mentioned Feliway.   Had you tried? Or you cant get it?

Re your residents and kittens.  Unless your residents are rogue hunters, such a danger is slim.  I dont say its nonexistent - if you are unlucky with the high strung mom, you may be unlucky with the residents here.

but such a reaction is not common!   they may be afraid of the kittens and hiss at them, but hunting on them?  Nay.

*vibes!*

Thankies.

Unfortunately no I can't afford Feliway right now. I did have one once but couldn't tell if it worked on my 2 boys as they were unrelated kittens and ended up getting on in the end.

I spoke to someone today who says to wait until she finishes milking, or "dries up" a bit before spaying so I am going to try that. Might be 5 weeks, I was told. My only dilemma is that the cage layout is not idea for the kittens to walk around in at the moment.  They're in the box, there's a blanket beside that with a pet bed on top of it, then litter by the door. 

She just won't allow me to move anything without thinking I'm after the kittens. Perhaps I'll wait until they are walking about. There's a blanket in there I'd rather get rid of. Failing that I suppose I'll have to risk losing an arm!

On another note, their little eyes have begun to open!   

Hi

I posted a week or so ago about a "semi feral" cat who as it happens has recently decided I'm her best friend (seriously, I don't get this much praise from my own cats! what gives? She was supposed to be a colony feral who I failed to catch/spay!?).  She has 5 kittens who are 2 weeks 4 days today, they were born 27th May. Aside from very slight eye discharge which mother has, they appear perfect.

Well a couple of days ago and a little more tonight, she has had a few accidents, quite bad ones. The first messed up the nest and included puking, whereas tonight it looked darker.

First time I figured I messed up by changing her sharply from Whiskas to Weruva (Cats in the Kitchen - Kitty gone Wild & Frick a Zee) which is what my boy cats usually have.  Tonight it wasn't Weruva but "by Nature" Chicken & Liver, which might have been too rich for her?  I have given her these previously without her reacting so I'm concerned that she might be ill?  I wish I had money for the vet but that aside the vet couldn't handle her last time... the most I can afford is to spay her which I get for $5 due to having TNR Certification, and FiV/FeLV test too which is $25.

Is this something anyone else might have heard of or experienced with their foster families?  I worry if she has diarrhea that she won't be able to feed her babies and I can't stand the idea of losing one.  She is a small cat, probably 6-7lbs max? Her babies are growing but cannot walk yet, their eyes are open and ears are almost there.  I tried changing to Weruva because I thought it would be more nutritious for her and the babies but cannot tell if it is an unrelated issue.

I can get to them when she is locked away so plan to start weighing them tomorrow as 2 are runts. The ones on the right in the first photo are the biggest, Miuna & Titan. The second photo is about a week old, I reckon they are almost double that size now.

Any advice for this lil' patchwork family is much appreciated! :}

 

Can you get goat milk?  Fresh or in bottles?  Its useful as kmr for the kittens if need be, and will possibly be good for her too, as it is renown to be mild for any stomach.

Second, use a home made pedialyte as her drinking water.   It stops somewhat diarrhea by itself.  And replaces the salts and electrolytes she loses in the diarrhea.

The basic receipt is   15-18g  glucose sugar (brand name typically Destrose or Dextropur), otherwise you can use honey or white caro sugar  -

3 grammes salt - preferably minerale salt, but common kitchen salt is OK

a tiny trifle bikarbonate = baking soda, if you have, not necessary

Everything  solved in 1 litre water.

You can also use some high quality bottled water "Polish waters" is one example.   Add glucose, and voilá - you have your homemade pedialyte.

Do let the gas disappear at first before you use.

There are surely also other advices, but you do have two home advices to begin with.

Ps.   These works also for humans too, if need be.

Good luck!