Safe commercial pet foods without toxins, controversial ingredients -are few and far between. What t

random gemini · Mar 28, 2014

So... I just read through the document posted by the OP.

It basically says, "We don't think carrageenan causes any problems. We have no evidence that it causes any harm." None of the studies in that document provide conclusive evidence of carrageenan being a problem in animals or in humans. The EU banned the use of it in infant formula, out of an abundance of caution and they even stated in their announcement of the 2009 ban, that there was no evidence that carrageenan is harmful.

I'm not saying it isn't harmful, because I'm not sure that it is, but it sure seems like there is absolutely no scientific proof that states that the stuff causes any sort of health problems. There hasn't been a link between it and cancer that has been proven.

I am sorry about the loss of your cat, but I think there may have been a much more logical answer to why she passed.

In 2012, I lost my 2 year old dog to secondhand poisoning. My neighbor put down commercial grade rodent bait. It claimed that it was fast acting. My dog caught one or more of the mice that my neighbors poisoned, without ever leaving his own property... and later, bled to death because we had no idea what caused the bleeding. No one saw him eat a mouse. We didn't know what happened until after he'd died and a necropsy was performed. I had to go talk to every single one of my neighbors while I was grieving and broken, to find out who had put the stuff down, so that I could protect my other two dogs from Mugen's fate. Come to find out, they were cat owners. They had lost several cats just this way over the years and had no idea that they were killing them by using these poisons. The store where they purchased them, told them that the poison would not kill their pets, if they caught the dead mice, which was a lie. They had no idea that they were killing their own pets... and I had no ability to control what they do on their property.

Rodenticides are anti-coagulant drugs. They prevent blood from clotting.

remmiebrandt · Apr 1, 2014

Still on the hunt for a decent food and concluding there aren't any. Many these pet food manufacturers join with the vets to make sure they have plenty of business. I looked into Halo - Spots Stew and that was great all the way until the end - garlic powder. Why would they avoid every other dangerous ingredient and then add garlic powder? Then I looked at Weruva - copper sulfate. Copper sulfate is toxic - so toxic they the medical profession no longer uses it to induce vomiting for poisoning victims. Surprise - TIKI also includes copper sulfate in their chicken can products. I think what the USA needs is a separate body that does nothing but regulate the pet food industry because they are poisoning our pets - and they know it.

remmiebrandt · Apr 1, 2014

Random Gemini said:
So... I just read through the document posted by the OP.

It basically says, "We don't think carrageenan causes any problems. We have no evidence that it causes any harm." None of the studies in that document provide conclusive evidence of carrageenan being a problem in animals or in humans. The EU banned the use of it in infant formula, out of an abundance of caution and they even stated in their announcement of the 2009 ban, that there was no evidence that carrageenan is harmful.

I'm not saying it isn't harmful, because I'm not sure that it is, but it sure seems like there is absolutely no scientific proof that states that the stuff causes any sort of health problems. There hasn't been a link between it and cancer that has been proven.

I am sorry about the loss of your cat, but I think there may have been a much more logical answer to why she passed.

In 2012, I lost my 2 year old dog to secondhand poisoning. My neighbor put down commercial grade rodent bait. It claimed that it was fast acting. My dog caught one or more of the mice that my neighbors poisoned, without ever leaving his own property... and later, bled to death because we had no idea what caused the bleeding. No one saw him eat a mouse. We didn't know what happened until after he'd died and a necropsy was performed. I had to go talk to every single one of my neighbors while I was grieving and broken, to find out who had put the stuff down, so that I could protect my other two dogs from Mugen's fate. Come to find out, they were cat owners. They had lost several cats just this way over the years and had no idea that they were killing them by using these poisons. The store where they purchased them, told them that the poison would not kill their pets, if they caught the dead mice, which was a lie. They had no idea that they were killing their own pets... and I had no ability to control what they do on their property.

Rodenticides are anti-coagulant drugs. They prevent blood from clotting.

I'm sorry for your loss too but that wasn't the case here - we might see baby field mice once in awhile but she was an indoor cat - there is not a parade of rodents & we wouldn't use poison anyway. My neighbors all have pets & young children - the vets we went to made the wrong diagnosis - the wrong calls - they were terribly incompetent.

remmiebrandt · Apr 1, 2014

Smoking cigarettes was said not cause cancer for decades - and they still sell them even though the evidence is uncontroverted. Sorry but you are wrong about carrageenan - any ingredient that has so many warnings and controversy in so many countries is not something we should be ingesting and that's the problem with the FDA - ingredients need to be proven safe - not proven unsafe after decades of people and pets have died. Sorry but it is in too many products and these manufacturers will go to any length to hide the toxic effects so not to lose money by having to reformulate and the government officials that are supposed to be looking out for us get elected on big company donations - which owns them. Carrageenan is most certainly a dangerous substance that too many other governments have banned - I don't need a brick to fall on my head before I start avoiding it. Dr. Oz strongly advocates that too on all his shows where it comes up - prove it safe - how about that? They can't - because it isn't.

remmiebrandt · Apr 1, 2014

onemeow said:
Firstmate is not only gum and carrageenan free, its also only 6.8% carb, 144 cal. Their website don't seem to have updated on the guaranteed analysis, I worked out carb % based on infor on the can, so it came up to 6.8% carb.

Oh, didn't know Canidae is manufactured by Diamond, I thought only the dog range is. Those "t dried enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract." I thought they were pre and pro biotics, not a concern? but DL-methionine, I haven't checked, you may be right that its another name for Vit K3, but wow! then that makes looking for a decent cat food even tougher. Since reading your thread, I have been looking hard at ingredients list.

Thanks - I just feel like if I can bring some light to the subject we can force these pet food manufacturers to stop trying to fool us and start making safe foods. I can't seem to find firstmate here but Amazon has it except it is not affordable - they are charging something like $50 plus shipping for a case - I can't afford that. I am waiting for the organix to go on sale at chewy.com and then I will stock up on that - it is the only one I found - and not the pate which has carrageenan and not the organic grain free which has the cranberries & extracts - only the original formula. Unfortunately castor & pollox who made it went out of business and it was bought by Merrick Brand - I emailed them and they said although they have added more flavors - probably the ones I won't buy - they aren't going to change the original formula. I also wrote to Halo asking them to remove the garlic powder from their otherwise safe Spot's Stew brand and I wrote to Weruva and Tiki asked them remove the copper sulfate from their formulas. If more of us spot these toxic or unsafe ingredients and take the time to write to these companies and let them know - we're not stupid - we caught you and we will no longer sit back and accept it - then maybe we will have more choices and pets will live much longer than they do - they all seem to die of kidney or liver failure or other mysterious ailments and when you start to dissect the ingredients you start to see the links.

remmiebrandt · Apr 1, 2014

onemeow said:
Whew! thank goodness, otherwise I am basically left with nothing much to feed.

LOL - me too. Unfortunately I found this link on webmd - now this is for people but they haven't seem to do much testing on animals - that's the problem. They don't do any testing - and then they say - oh its safe because there is no direct link to any harmful effect. No kidding. You haven't tested it so of course it hasn't been proven unsafe. It hasn't been proven safe either. Its the cumulative effects of feeding these pets every day food that contains these ingredients that is the worry. I guess until there is a safe food - the best bet is to alternate foods with different bad ingredients so they aren't eating it every day - and maybe twice a week take them off pet food entirely and cook them chicken or beef. No dry food. http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-suppl...gredientId=42&activeIngredientName=METHIONINE

tammyp · Apr 1, 2014

Re Carageenan, I believe there are an number of studies currently underway into its effect on people. When I researched carageenan a year ago, the American Crohns body was just starting to formulate a study. It is used scientifically to INDUCE ulceration of the colon....so they can then test drugs that will relieve that ulceration. So for people with any type of IBD, it really isnt a good idea at all, and anecdotally, it causes terrible disease flares - hence I guess the Crohns body thinking about a study.

I'm in Australia, so sorry, I don't remember the organisation's name, but I'm guessing a google search with verify the study with key words (given it was my google search that brought it to my attention). I actually asked my gastroenterologist about carageenan, and she didn't know anything. But, hey, most docs and vets are pretty clueless on the 'holistic' side of things - they just focus on medicine. But what she did say was she has staunch beliefs that people should not be eating anything processed/mass produced. Foods should be all natural, with the old fashioned natural way of producing them eg: cheese should be milk, rennet and salt. That's it. (And yes 'carageenan' is natural, but that was not the point she was making - she was saying that the modernisation of food production has lead to a host of evils for the human body, and hence carageenan, being found and used to make low fat things feel creamy, was a bad thing....just eat the full fat thing!) She also said she believes from her practice, that supermarket bread (with preservatives) are a culprit for a big rise in gastro symptoms and disease. So I try to eat as clean as I can - and for my cats too!

Thanks for the thread about k3. I didn't know about this (or I'd forgotten). I have to say you are extremely lucky for choice in your part of the world - we get fewer pet foods being ok in Australia plus they are extrememly expensive (at least $1 for a single serve can, and upwards from there).

You may want to check out Ziwipeak - it is expensive, but ok I think.

momof3b1g · Apr 1, 2014

RemmieBrandt said:
Still on the hunt for a decent food and concluding there aren't any. Many these pet food manufacturers join with the vets to make sure they have plenty of business. I looked into Halo - Spots Stew and that was great all the way until the end - garlic powder. Why would they avoid every other dangerous ingredient and then add garlic powder? Then I looked at Weruva - copper sulfate. Copper sulfate is toxic - so toxic they the medical profession no longer uses it to induce vomiting for poisoning victims. Surprise - TIKI also includes copper sulfate in their chicken can products. I think what the USA needs is a separate body that does nothing but regulate the pet food industry because they are poisoning our pets - and they know it.

Here is the quote i have about copper..

Copper sulfate is an AAFCO approved source of copper, which is required in commercial pet foods. Any mineral is hazardous in large quantities, but when added at appropriate levels, minerals are critical nutrients for optimal health and wellness.

oneandahalfcats · Apr 2, 2014

Quote : "Re Carageenan, I believe there are an number of studies currently underway into its effect on people. When I researched carageenan a year ago, the American Crohns body was just starting to formulate a study. It is used scientifically to INDUCE ulceration of the colon....so they can then test drugs that will relieve that ulceration".

Studies have been conducted in the last few years on the effects of carageenan on lab mice. The carageenan that was used in many of the studies, was poligeenan which is a degraded form of carageenan, and NOT the undegraded form that is used in human and pet foods. Although both substances are often referred to as ‘carrageenan,’ they have very different chemical properties and should really be treated as separate compounds. Poligeenan is significantly more detrimental to the health of lab animals than carrageenan, so the lack of a clear designation between them has given carrageenan a worse reputation than it deserves.

@RemmieBrandt: If you prefer to take the opinion of Dr. Oz when it comes to the subject of carageenan, that is your choice, but you should keep in mind that he is acting in the role of TV personality when he speaks about this and other topics, and much of his information comes from third parties who advise him on different subjects. He has no specialized training in nutrition, cancer, infectious diseases but speaks about these things as if he does? Dr. Oz is first and foremost, a heart surgeon who got his TV start on Oprah Winfrey.

Dr. Oz has had some quite controversial and just plain whacky guests, some of which do not have any medical or scientific degree to back up their claims. As the result, his show has been criticized by members of the scientific community for reporting information that has been highly inaccurate and misleading. Over 100 scientists provided their names and comments in a letter to the show's producers asking for a retraction of certain claims that have been made. It bothers me that this person with such public appeal must know that some of the subjects discussed and the claims that are made, are not based in science while some others have bordered on quackery, and yet continues to allow this sort of content. It just doesn't jive with his original intent which was to advise people on basic health issues and what they can do to keep themselves healthy. For this reason, I no longer take a lot of what his says, very seriously.

I am all for a natural diet that is free of chemicals and harmful ingredients, but I also have to weigh this desire with the fact that my cats MUST eat. Its also important that they have some variety. For this reason, you can't avoid feeding some foods that may contain questionable ingredients.

There is no perfect wet canned food, but there are some that come pretty close. I feed my cats Nature's Variety Instinct which is a high protein, grain-free food. It does not contain a lot of carbs, chemicals or carageenan. Hound & Gatos is another grain-free food which is high protein and does not contain a lot of carbs or carageenan. At the end of the day you have to weigh the pros and cons of feeding wet canned food and decide what you can live with for ingredients, and if you can't be comfortable with what's on offer, then the next logical step is to make your own food.

Btw, I noticed that many of the Spots Stew varieties contain a lot of carbohydrates in the form of potatoes, carrots, peas, fruits, and some varieties contain carageenan. If you want to ensure that your cat's urine maintains an appropriate acidic PH, then you should also look at the carb content of foods and choose something that is low carb as much as possible. Too many carbs can have the result of changing urine PH to alkaline.

gummifuzz · Apr 2, 2014

RemmieBrandt said:
Smoking cigarettes was said not cause cancer for decades - and they still sell them even though the evidence is uncontroverted. Sorry but you are wrong about carrageenan - any ingredient that has so many warnings and controversy in so many countries is not something we should be ingesting and that's the problem with the FDA - ingredients need to be proven safe - not proven unsafe after decades of people and pets have died. Sorry but it is in too many products and these manufacturers will go to any length to hide the toxic effects so not to lose money by having to reformulate and the government officials that are supposed to be looking out for us get elected on big company donations - which owns them. Carrageenan is most certainly a dangerous substance that too many other governments have banned - I don't need a brick to fall on my head before I start avoiding it. Dr. Oz strongly advocates that too on all his shows where it comes up - prove it safe - how about that? They can't - because it isn't.

Food-grade carrageenan is not carcinogenic. The EU banned it in infant formulas out of an abundance of caution, not because there was any scientific evidence that it actually causes harm. DEGRADED INDUSTRIAL carregeenan (otherwise known as poligeenan) IS carcinogenic and not permitted for use in food. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12389870

As for your appeal to authority - "If it's been banned then it must be bad" that makes me chuckle. Bans mean very little, as they are oftentimes politically and not scientifically motivated. You can believe what you want, of course, but that doesn't make you right in this case.

goholistic · Apr 2, 2014

I agree with @oneandahalfcats regarding weighing the pros and cons. No cat food is going to be perfect, unless you decide to make your own from fresh, organic, meats. Even then, there can be issues with where the meat if coming from, how the animals are treated, packaging, logistics...the list goes on and on and on.

It just seems crazy to me to waste time complaining about all these controversial ingredients in cat food. That's how commercial pet food is. You either accept it and do the best you can with what's available, or you make your own homemade food.

Say you found a food that meets all your criteria. Then what about BPA that is used in the lining of the cans? This is another valid concern among pet owners and not mentioned once in this thread. Very few canned cat foods use BPA-free cans.

Sometimes you have to look further and deeper than just the ingredients. There are several companies that many of us stopped supporting (by buying their brands) because of moral/ethical concerns and safety/hygienic issues in their manufacturing plants.

tammyp · Apr 2, 2014

The carageenan that was used in many of the studies, was poligeenan which is a degraded form of carageenan, and NOT the undegraded form that is used in human and pet foods.

Point taken.

But it IS carageenan that is in the current studies on humans by the crohns association.

jclark · Apr 4, 2014

cranberries, rosemary ? Meh..The amounts in cat food are so small I would waste the energy worrying about it. I would suspect that the chemical residue from household cleaning products is more toxic to cats than cranberries in minute concentrations.

remmiebrandt · Apr 14, 2014

oneandahalfcats said:
Quote : "Re Carageenan, I believe there are an number of studies currently underway into its effect on people. When I researched carageenan a year ago, the American Crohns body was just starting to formulate a study. It is used scientifically to INDUCE ulceration of the colon....so they can then test drugs that will relieve that ulceration".

Studies have been conducted in the last few years on the effects of carageenan on lab mice. The carageenan that was used in many of the studies, was poligeenan which is a degraded form of carageenan, and NOT the undegraded form that is used in human and pet foods. Although both substances are often referred to as ‘carrageenan,’ they have very different chemical properties and should really be treated as separate compounds. Poligeenan is significantly more detrimental to the health of lab animals than carrageenan, so the lack of a clear designation between them has given carrageenan a worse reputation than it deserves.

@RemmieBrandt: If you prefer to take the opinion of Dr. Oz when it comes to the subject of carageenan, that is your choice, but you should keep in mind that he is acting in the role of TV personality when he speaks about this and other topics, and much of his information comes from third parties who advise him on different subjects. He has no specialized training in nutrition, cancer, infectious diseases but speaks about these things as if he does? Dr. Oz is first and foremost, a heart surgeon who got his TV start on Oprah Winfrey.

Dr. Oz has had some quite controversial and just plain whacky guests, some of which do not have any medical or scientific degree to back up their claims. As the result, his show has been criticized by members of the scientific community for reporting information that has been highly inaccurate and misleading. Over 100 scientists provided their names and comments in a letter to the show's producers asking for a retraction of certain claims that have been made. It bothers me that this person with such public appeal must know that some of the subjects discussed and the claims that are made, are not based in science while some others have bordered on quackery, and yet continues to allow this sort of content. It just doesn't jive with his original intent which was to advise people on basic health issues and what they can do to keep themselves healthy. For this reason, I no longer take a lot of what his says, very seriously.

I am all for a natural diet that is free of chemicals and harmful ingredients, but I also have to weigh this desire with the fact that my cats MUST eat. Its also important that they have some variety. For this reason, you can't avoid feeding some foods that may contain questionable ingredients.

There is no perfect wet canned food, but there are some that come pretty close. I feed my cats Nature's Variety Instinct which is a high protein, grain-free food. It does not contain a lot of carbs, chemicals or carageenan. Hound & Gatos is another grain-free food which is high protein and does not contain a lot of carbs or carageenan. At the end of the day you have to weigh the pros and cons of feeding wet canned food and decide what you can live with for ingredients, and if you can't be comfortable with what's on offer, then the next logical step is to make your own food.

Btw, I noticed that many of the Spots Stew varieties contain a lot of carbohydrates in the form of potatoes, carrots, peas, fruits, and some varieties contain carageenan. If you want to ensure that your cat's urine maintains an appropriate acidic PH, then you should also look at the carb content of foods and choose something that is low carb as much as possible. Too many carbs can have the result of changing urine PH to alkaline.

Thanks - I didn't know about checking the carb ratio but I didn't like the garlic powder so luckily I didn't buy it. I did look at the Hounds & Gatos and also a company called Firstmate & they are great foods with none of the worrisome ingredients but they are very expensive too. I am trying to figure out how to buy them since there isn't any distributor here. I don't believe in these people who say - well - there are toxic ingredients in all commercial foods so just accept it or make your own. That's so sad - pathetic even. People can force changes if they care enough and are willing to do small things like writing the manufacturer and posting online and writing to their government representative asking for support. Right now they're trying the Tiki brand but only the fish flavors since the meat flavors contain the copper sulfate - and I think I will try the Organix salmon & turkey but I have to order that online too. It doesn't seem like there are any distributors around NY for these products. I appreciate all the suggestions - I had not heard of some of the foods recommended so at least now I have a few more healthy options even though it will mean cutting corners in other areas to be able to afford these better foods.

remmiebrandt · Apr 14, 2014

JClark said:
cranberries, rosemary ? Meh..The amounts in cat food are so small I would waste the energy worrying about it. I would suspect that the chemical residue from household cleaning products is more toxic to cats than cranberries in minute concentrations.

It isn't a question of what is more toxic. It is a question of being toxic -- period. I am not feeding household cleaning products to my pets. I don't use heavy chemicals at all since I find white vinegar and water or baking soda pretty much is all you need but that is off point. The point is that there are toxic ingredients purposefully being put in food products - knowingly being put there- and if you know it - why would you still feed it to your pet? At least if you are going to insist that it is the least toxic poison your pet could ingest - then be smart enough to know that the ingredients are toxic and not feed them to your pet every day. These products were never used in pet food before - they are there because humans look at the ingredients and it looks good to them so they buy it because they are now looking for other key ingredients made popular by so many recalls. Most will not research these ingredients and will not even know the risk that is there. The FDA needs to wakeup and the only way to do that is not to be so passive about accepting any amount of dangerous ingredient in pet food - or require warning labels so they do not feed their pets foods with these ingredients all the time and at least alternate with brands that don't contain them or home cooked meals.

remmiebrandt · Apr 14, 2014

tammyp said:
Point taken.

But it IS carageenan that is in the current studies on humans by the crohns association.

You are right. Look - so many groups are so concerned that they are requiring further testing because they want the ingredient banned that it is prudent to avoid it as much as possible - in pet food and human food. The problem is - especially with pet food - the labeling isn't specific and these overseas plants especially are not particularly careful with what type of carageenan they are using - and I am sure amounts are varying. It reminds of me of the lead they are finding in FDA approved ceramics in which the glazes have not been properly finished or heated - but you will never know that unless you have your dishes tested. Now they are saying stay away from candy from Mexico or candy products with Chili because of the lead content in THAT. So many variables in foods that we don't know about - why oh why would you use a known suspected ingredient. Fancy feast is the very worst offender since it is still using very dangerous medione - people buy it because it is easy to find and goes on sale cheap enough but how many animals have gotten sick and the vets simply say - well she/he was already 10 years old. Maybe these animals would live 20 or 25 years if they weren't being slowly poisoned by their own food.

remmiebrandt · Apr 14, 2014

GoHolistic said:
I agree with @oneandahalfcats regarding weighing the pros and cons. No cat food is going to be perfect, unless you decide to make your own from fresh, organic, meats. Even then, there can be issues with where the meat if coming from, how the animals are treated, packaging, logistics...the list goes on and on and on.

It just seems crazy to me to waste time complaining about all these controversial ingredients in cat food. That's how commercial pet food is. You either accept it and do the best you can with what's available, or you make your own homemade food.

Say you found a food that meets all your criteria. Then what about BPA that is used in the lining of the cans? This is another valid concern among pet owners and not mentioned once in this thread. Very few canned cat foods use BPA-free cans.

Sometimes you have to look further and deeper than just the ingredients. There are several companies that many of us stopped supporting (by buying their brands) because of moral/ethical concerns and safety/hygienic issues in their manufacturing plants.

Well good for you - which companies? Boycotting, letter writing - it is the only way to get the attention to change things. BPA is certainly a concern but I haven't researched which companies claim to use BPA free cans and which don't - I first wanted to get a list of the best foods with the safest ingredients and if there is a choice among them regarding differences in BPA packing - then of course that would make my decision - presuming the cats like all the foods too. If anyone knows about the BPA - I'd be interested in learning.

remmiebrandt · Apr 14, 2014

tammyp said:
Re Carageenan, I believe there are an number of studies currently underway into its effect on people. When I researched carageenan a year ago, the American Crohns body was just starting to formulate a study. It is used scientifically to INDUCE ulceration of the colon....so they can then test drugs that will relieve that ulceration. So for people with any type of IBD, it really isnt a good idea at all, and anecdotally, it causes terrible disease flares - hence I guess the Crohns body thinking about a study.

I'm in Australia, so sorry, I don't remember the organisation's name, but I'm guessing a google search with verify the study with key words (given it was my google search that brought it to my attention). I actually asked my gastroenterologist about carageenan, and she didn't know anything. But, hey, most docs and vets are pretty clueless on the 'holistic' side of things - they just focus on medicine. But what she did say was she has staunch beliefs that people should not be eating anything processed/mass produced. Foods should be all natural, with the old fashioned natural way of producing them eg: cheese should be milk, rennet and salt. That's it. (And yes 'carageenan' is natural, but that was not the point she was making - she was saying that the modernisation of food production has lead to a host of evils for the human body, and hence carageenan, being found and used to make low fat things feel creamy, was a bad thing....just eat the full fat thing!) She also said she believes from her practice, that supermarket bread (with preservatives) are a culprit for a big rise in gastro symptoms and disease. So I try to eat as clean as I can - and for my cats too!

Thanks for the thread about k3. I didn't know about this (or I'd forgotten). I have to say you are extremely lucky for choice in your part of the world - we get fewer pet foods being ok in Australia plus they are extrememly expensive (at least $1 for a single serve can, and upwards from there).

You may want to check out Ziwipeak - it is expensive, but ok I think.

That's interesting about the ulceration - I wasn't sure exactly why it was so bad. I started this thread after my cat died - she had anemia but they could not find a cause and the blood transfusion did not last. She was eating fancy feast and I feel ever so guilty for feeding her that but that was before I went on this food quest determined not to let another cat die by my poor choice of bad food for them. Zwipeak -Is that the freeze dried food? It is nice to have choices for sure but I rather have fewer choices but know the choices I have are safe - I think for the foods I am finding here that don't contain any suspect ingredients - the cost is pretty much the same. There are cheaper cans - as low I think as 40 cents if you catch a sale - but not great quality. Then again a lot of the ones I found that are charging $1.50 or more - aren't too great because of the ingredients they choose to use.

oneandahalfcats · Apr 14, 2014

Quote:

RemmieBrandt said:
Thanks - I didn't know about checking the carb ratio but I didn't like the garlic powder so luckily I didn't buy it. I did look at the Hounds & Gatos and also a company called Firstmate & they are great foods with none of the worrisome ingredients but they are very expensive too. I am trying to figure out how to buy them since there isn't any distributor here. I don't believe in these people who say - well - there are toxic ingredients in all commercial foods so just accept it or make your own. That's so sad - pathetic even. People can force changes if they care enough and are willing to do small things like writing the manufacturer and posting online and writing to their government representative asking for support. Right now they're trying the Tiki brand but only the fish flavors since the meat flavors contain the copper sulfate - and I think I will try the Organix salmon & turkey but I have to order that online too. It doesn't seem like there are any distributors around NY for these products. I appreciate all the suggestions - I had not heard of some of the foods recommended so at least now I have a few more healthy options even though it will mean cutting corners in other areas to be able to afford these better foods.

Yes, Hound & Gatos is one of the better foods available. If you go to their website, and plug in your location into the online store locator at this page : http://houndgatos.com/wheretobuy.aspx, you should pull up a few locations in NY. Alternately, @Raintyger has some links in her signature and may be able to help you in this respect.

I agree with you 100% that people can have a great influence for change, IF the will is there. Oftentimes, when people don't like something about a food, or a food causes problems, people will just move on to another food when they should take the time to contact the company and let them know of their concern, so that a problem can be rectified, or changes made. If enough people did this, we would see more positive change.

I contacted three of the top pet food companies recently, to get the lowdown on what is in their food for meat protein sources. Two out of three of the companies do not use carageenan in the majority of their line. The third company uses this but when questioned about it, the response was that they are currently looking for alternatives as they are aware of the health concerns but at the same time, they have to find something that will be suitable and reliable to ensure consistency.

Another example of change is that one of the companies will soon be making the announcement regarding their sourcing of rabbit to advise that they will be switching their sourcing from China to New Zealand as they are aware of public concern with food products that are coming out of China. This remains to be seen of course, but if it turns out to be the case, is a sign that some companies are getting the message.

goholistic · Apr 14, 2014

I agree that H&G is one of the better brands, but some people were concerned about the use of three different "gums" in their foods. Guar gum may interfere with nutrient absorption and can contain up to 10% soy, depending on the source. I just recently discovered that Sebastian is allergic to guar gum, so that leaves us with with very little choices in commercial canned foods. Boo hiss!

http://catcentric.org/2014/04/14/pet-food-ingredients-to-avoid-guar-gum/

By the way, I must say that I HAVE written to companies, made phone calls, and signed petitions. I've taken pictures of things I've found in canned cat food and emailed them to pet food safety organizations, including Susan Thixton at TruthAboutPetFood.com, to which I am a subscriber. I found a larvae worm (dead) in a can of food once!

I wasn't going to let that one go! But I am tired and I have only so much time and energy, so the best I can do is complain and never buy the products again, and this I have done on many occasions. Plus, these companies aren't making changes fast enough, and people with sick kitties need a solution NOW, which is why many have gone the raw and homecooked route. Since you asked, I won't buy any foods manufactured by Evangers or Diamond.

I don't know a whole lot about BPA, but I am going to quote two other TCS members from another thread. I hope they don't mind!

Originally Posted by LDG

From a discussion of contributing factors to IBD in another thread, when Carolina asked about BPA and inflammation, I did a quick google search in the car while we were driving around today (Gary was driving.

). I was pretty sure I'd seen BPA pointed out as a possible contributing factor in IBD. It is - but it's not straightforward (of course.

).

This article is REALLY interesting, and my VERY short "research take" on BPA is that in children - especially prenatal - it can cause all kinds of problems, especially for females vs. males, and the exposure young has an impact later in life. So what that has to do with cats and IBD, I don't really know, but BPA does impact the permeability of the epithelial barrier. That was very interesting.

The report: http://www.pnas.org/content/107/1/448.full

"Impact of oral bisphenol A at reference doses on intestinal barrier function and sex differences after perinatal exposure in rats"

Anyway, the point is this very short quote from this study that popped out at me.

Colorectal distention (CRD) induces abdominal contractions

Click to expand...

Now, I don't know what colorectal distention is. But it seems to me it means that problems in the bowel can cause vomiting. This doesn't help clear anything up, of course. But it does potentially mean the problem, even though expressed as vomiting, isn't upper GI.

Carolina said:
Look at this: http://www.annlouise.com/blog/2010/05/24/bpa-linked-to-leaky-gut/

Safe commercial pet foods without toxins, controversial ingredients -are few and far between. What t

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