Slippery Elm Bark, Wet food, Managing Constipation

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tdonline

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I wasn't clear about this in my first post--yes, Dory is constipated from prozac.  She's flirted with constipation in the past but the medication and stress seems to really magnify the problem.  If she doesn't go tonight I'll call the vet tomorrow morning.  Her schedule used to be 36-48 hours and now it's 3-4 days.  

She's currently on 1/8 teaspoon of purelax (CVS generic) daily.  I bumped her up today to 1/4 but of course she decided she didn't want to eat all her food.  She would like nothing more than to eat dry all the time.  Of course I don't allow this.  But...I noticed in the past, the dry food didn't constipate her.  In fact she had bigger and smellier waste regularly.  I suspect it's because the food is so junky she can't digest most of it (I use California Balance limited ingredients) and she has to go.  Would it be crazy to let her eat dry food as her primary food for now while she's on prozac?  It's junky food but at least she wouldn't be constipated.  Currently she is fed about 5 tablespoons of wet food and 1-2 tablespoons of dry food daily.
 
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oneandahalfcats

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tdonline said:
 
I wasn't clear about this in my first post--yes, Dory is constipated from prozac.  She's flirted with constipation in the past but the medication and stress seems to really magnify the problem.  If she doesn't go tonight I'll call the vet tomorrow morning.  Her schedule used to be 36-48 hours and now it's 3-4 days.  

She's currently on 1/8 teaspoon of purelax (CVS generic) daily.  I bumped her up today to 1/4 but of course she decided she didn't want to eat all her food.  She would like nothing more than to eat dry all the time.  Of course I don't allow this.  But...I noticed in the past, the dry food didn't constipate her.  In fact she had bigger and smellier waste regularly.  I suspect it's because the food is so junky she can't digest most of it (I use California Balance limited ingredients) and she has to go.  Would it be crazy to let her eat dry food as her primary food for now while she's on prozac?  It's junky food but at least she wouldn't be constipated.  Currently she is fed about 5 tablespoons of wet food and 1-2 tablespoons of dry food daily.
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I have not heard of California Balance. There is a California Natural limited ingredients, is this what you mean? Wet food is always preferable to dry food but there are some pretty good grain-free varieties such as Origen, Acana, Wellness Core, GO Brand, EVO to name a few. I would avoid dry food with wheat or corn gluten and soy. Water is very important in the diet when serving dry so make sure that she gets plenty to drink.

Will be thinking of Dory and sending positive vibes that tonight's the night and she goes. 
 
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Oops I always combine California Natural with Natural Balance.  Grain-free everything was the initial plan but grain free dry food really stuffs up my kitties.  I'm hoping she goes tonight...so far no luck.  
 
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Snugglecat said:
 
She has had problems with her anal glands for some time now. We usually go in every month to have them expressed, I can usually tell that she needs to go in when she starts running around and screaming. They are usually not real full or impacted but still painful. There has been a few times that one side is full and the other doesn't have much. It has just been about the last year that she would do the running around and screaming and she would be constipated without her anal glands needing expressed. This is where the problem is sometimes she can be going poop normal every day other every other day and come to find out she is still full of poop. I never know what the problem is until we get to the vet so sometimes she is running around in pain because of constipation and sometimes it has to do with the anal glands, sometimes it is both at the same time.

What foods would be considered low fiber? The only canned foods I can get her to eat is some Friskies without fish and Wild Calling Turkey. She loves FF but she has gotten constipated every time I have given it to her. I have tried giving her Nature's Variety limited ingredient but she will only eat that mixed in something else and she ended up constipated after eating one can and that was the recent vet visit we just had.

I think I will call vet and tell her I want to try the vitamin B injection as some others on here said to give it a try when I asked about. I just hope she will do it now. I really don't want Peaches going on Cisapride, the vet has been trying to get me to try that for over a year now and I keep saying no. Vet also recommended trying the Sub Q fluids so I think I will try those first. Peaches refuses to drink any water at all but I add lots of water to her canned food. Thanks for every ones advice, I'm just going broke and so frustrated with all her issues.
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Wellness grain-free canned chicken which I have been serving has not more than 1% fiber according to the guaranteed analysis data. You might wish to try this brand. I am currently doing a trial of Nature's Variety canned chicken which is higher in fibre but it doesn't contain carageenan. My female doesn't seem to like it as much as the boys though. I think if she had her way she'd eat nothing but dry kibble, but this is not going to do her much good in the long run.
 
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oneandahalfcats

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tdonline said:
 
Oops I always combine California Natural with Natural Balance.  Grain-free everything was the initial plan but grain free dry food really stuffs up my kitties.  I'm hoping she goes tonight...so far no luck.  
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Yes, the Origen and Acana that I tried which are both grain-free didn't make a big difference in Max's output. I have tried a few different varieties with fair results but have been gradually coming to the conclusion that Max is one cat that just shouldn't be on dry food.
 
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UPDATE : Max has had another BM and again it was substantial but looked firmer this time. When I took the scraper and pushed down on it to check, some of it was on the firm gummy side, unlike the BM of Monday. So, this morning I served some of the Wellness grain-free thinking that maybe the clay in the Nature's Variety has caused the stool to be firmer. It could also be from the 1/4 cup of the low fiber dry that everyone still gets in the afternoon. Previously it was twice a day cut back to once. All in all still some very positive progress which may be solely on account of the Slippery Elm Bark as he is pooping more steadily and the output is greater, or a combination of things.
 
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By "greater output" do you mean larger stool volume? More volume is not always good as that just means there's more waste--food nutrients are not being utilized.

Here is an article which discusses the proper firmness of stool:

http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/constipated-cats/

I found it very helpful to make a journal detailing stool volume, firmness, time of bowel movement, etc.

Hound and Gatos and By Nature Organics (organic line) also have no carrageenan. There are links in my signature for places where you can purchase single cans to try them out.
 
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Thanks for the feedback and links Raintyger. .. I am familiar with Jean Hofvre's site which is very informative and is where I read quite a bit about the Slippery Elm.

I have been journalling for some time since the constipation started initially, and so would agree that yes, absolutely this is a good thing to do to monitor output and keep track of results to get an idea of what is working, and what is not. 

Greater output, meaning proportionate to a cat his size. His previous BMs have been too small, irregular and too firm.

Re. more volume sometimes meaning less nutrient retention and usage, Yes, I am familiar with this and this was very much the case I found when Max was prescribed the Royal Canin Fibre Response when he was first checked. His BMs on this food were huge, very soft and brown with yellow inside like the food which suggested to me that it was going right through him. Consequently, I felt that he couldn't be getting much from it in terms of nutrition. Plus, it bothered me that the top ingredients were chicken meal, then wheat and corn gluten. Cheap protein! For such a pricey food, Royal Canin needs to do a lot better IMNSHO.
 

I will look into the Hounds and Gatos and By Nature .. Thanks for these suggestions!
 
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oneandahalfcats,

Do you still feel he could use more nutrients? Some members of the Yahoo! group and I used digestive enzymes. I noticed that when I did, the stool volume went down about 20%.

Probiotics also help sometimes by creating the correct body pH to stimulate bowel movements.
 
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oneandahalfcats,

I too also noticed since starting Peaches on the fiber response food that her stools are huge and she never had that problem before. She always had very small stools and the vets kept telling me she didn't have megacolon because they were small and most megacolon cats have huge stools. I have stopped that food and taking it back.

I'm also not going to feed her the last can of Nature's Variety, I did just look and it is high in fiber and we ended up at the vet when she finished the can. She was doing really good on the Wellness but for some reason she is refusing that now and that is when we started going to the vet more often for constipation problems.

I was wondering what low fiber dry food you are feeding? I think I will pick up some Slippery Elm Bark and give that a try.

Thanks so much for everyone's feedback on this constipation issue and oneandahalfcats I am so sorry Max is having all this trouble too. I hope he starts doing much better with the food changes.
 
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Raintyger said:
 
oneandahalfcats,

Do you still feel he could use more nutrients? Some members of the Yahoo! group and I used digestive enzymes. I noticed that when I did, the stool volume went down about 20%.

Probiotics also help sometimes by creating the correct body pH to stimulate bowel movements.
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It's not a bad idea Raintyger .. If anything to ensure gut health. Max is a big-boned cat (big paws and is very athletic) who should be 12-14 pounds ideal. He has been wavered between 14 and 16+ due to the different dry diets and is not as active as he used to be, but with the switch from dry food to more wet, he is starting to shed some of the weight. I have started coconut oil which is good for metabolism and also aids in better digestion and absorption of nutrients. Getting onto the wellness was a good first step in terms of serving more of a quality, balanced diet, I just wish it didn't have carageenan in it. I think the real culprit is the dry food although it is better than the Royal Canin he was on. I am considering a raw diet at some point but need to get everyone off of dry first before attempting that move. The idea of the B Vitamins sounds intriguing as well. I am quite familiar with the benefits that the Bs have for humans, so were looking into.
 
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Nothing yet!  I called the vet and he offered some suggestions but thought we could give Dory another day...

I noticed there was a hole in the litter this morning like Dory had gone in, dug and tried but no cigar.  I started giving her petroleum jelly last night to see if that can grease the wheels.

The vet's suggestion was petroleum jelly and dosing medication every other day rather than daily. I asked about a B12 injection to help Dory with her digestive issues and he said while it wouldn't hurt, he's never seen it work.

I think that it really is a combo of factors and we can mitigate the medicinal side effects--that seems to be working for her sister, Josie, who's also on prozac.  Dory is non-responsive and I suspect it's down to stress.  She's no longer aggressive but she does anxiously look to the door to search for the "other" cat in the apartment.  We moved to the sighting stage of reintroductions and that's when Dory's mild constipation got much, much worse.  Today, I allowed her to roam the apartment with her sister in the carrier.  She seems to not stress if Josie is restrained, not out and about.  Then I put her back in the bedroom and close the door completely.  For the last couple of weeks, the door was left ajar to allow sighting.  I'm hoping the retreat to more privacy will encourage Dory to go.
 
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tdonline said:
 
Nothing yet!  I called the vet and he offered some suggestions but thought we could give Dory another day...

I noticed there was a hole in the litter this morning like Dory had gone in, dug and tried but no cigar.  I started giving her petroleum jelly last night to see if that can grease the wheels.

The vet's suggestion was petroleum jelly and dosing medication every other day rather than daily. I asked about a B12 injection to help Dory with her digestive issues and he said while it wouldn't hurt, he's never seen it work.

I think that it really is a combo of factors and we can mitigate the medicinal side effects--that seems to be working for her sister, Josie, who's also on prozac.  Dory is non-responsive and I suspect it's down to stress.  She's no longer aggressive but she does anxiously look to the door to search for the "other" cat in the apartment.  We moved to the sighting stage of reintroductions and that's when Dory's mild constipation got much, much worse.  Today, I allowed her to roam the apartment with her sister in the carrier.  She seems to not stress if Josie is restrained, not out and about.  Then I put her back in the bedroom and close the door completely.  For the last couple of weeks, the door was left ajar to allow sighting.  I'm hoping the retreat to more privacy will encourage Dory to go.
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Oh no, I am sorry to read this tdonline. Did your vet offer to do an enema? I am thinking that if Dory has eaten all of her meals she's got to be really full of a lot of feces which can become an impaction if it isn't removed. May I ask why she and Josie are on the Prozac and what brought on the need to keep them separate? Any major change in environment can bring on problems with elimination in cats - usually peeing rather than constipation but as we discussed, the prozac must be contributing to a certain extent.

In the early days when Thomas our little tuxedo first started living with us, Maggie wanted absolutely nothing to do with him and would run out of the room and hide. I was quite concerned that we would have to find another home for Thomas if Maggie wasn't going to be okay with him. Max and Thomas were friends from the get-go. After some of the spats, I used catnip in giving a bit to both Maggie and Thomas in the same room. This seemed to help diffuse the tension and take their minds of each other while still in the same room together. I work out of my home and so was able to be there and keep an eye on them. Through their many trials and interactions, Maggie finally was able to be in the same room, be herself and get to a place where she can accept Thomas (that is when he is not trying to wind her up) and their co-existence is definitely much more peaceful now. Thank goodness.

I really hope for Dory's sake that she goes soon, but if she doesn't, you should really consider having an enema done, or at the very least have the vet examine her colon to see how backed up she is and decide from there.
 
 
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Long story short (see my posts for more details), Dory and Josie are separated and undergoing medication due to redirected aggression.  Dory saw another cat outside and attacked Josie.  I separated them for a day and they seem to be okay.  The outside cat visited again, Dory attacked and that seemed to be the straw that broke the camel's back.  She was just inconsolable and unremittingly aggressive towards Josie.  She's always been the quiet, slightly skittish one with the fickle digestive system.  It seems the redirected aggression magnified her anxiety and issues a 100 fold.  Josie is on a lower dosage because her crying when she's separated from me, was spooking Dory.  I live in a one-bedroom apartment so I can't truly separate them completely and give them breathing space.  Even on 5mg of prozac, Dory's still anxious about Josie.  I'm on eggshells with her because she reacts against any sudden movement or noise.
 
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Thankyou for the explanation. I actually understand this situation quite well. My husband had a tuxedo cat from the time it was a kitten. He lived with this cat in a highrise for several years before meeting me. The cat never went outside and as the result developed a very serious aversion to sudden loud noise and movement. So much so that he would attack visitors including me once when I was laughing loudly about something. I think through being isolated from people, sounds and everyday things, the tuxedo was hyper sensitive and protective of his space. When we moved together to a house the tuxedo came with us and actually got much better and eventually went outside.

Hopefully your kitties can come together again at some point soon.
 
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Thank you all the deities in the universe--Dory delivered!   Poor thing, she had a payload...

Now, I have to incorporate all the advice/suggestions so far to ensure she is more regular.  Unfortunately for the reintroduction process, it looks like we have to go back a step and allow Dory more alone time.  I'm going to discontinue leaving the door slightly ajar all day.  We'll give that a few days and see if that helps with Dory's stress and regularity.  
 
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tdonline said:
 
Thank you all the deities in the universe--Dory delivered!   Poor thing, she had a payload...

Now, I have to incorporate all the advice/suggestions so far to ensure she is more regular.  Unfortunately for the reintroduction process, it looks like we have to go back a step and allow Dory more alone time.  I'm going to discontinue leaving the door slightly ajar all day.  We'll give that a few days and see if that helps with Dory's stress and regularity.  
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Thank God! 4+ days is really too long. She could develop megacolon if that goes on consistently.

Is her poop dry or pellet like? Just trying to assess if more Miralax is needed or if you should look at other remedies.

Have you tried a Feliway diffuser?
 
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You know I was so happy she pooped, I forgot to do a proper inspection.  They were definitely not pellet-like.  They looked like short beefy hot dogs.

Yes, I have feliway diffusers in the bedroom and living room along with a spray can.
 
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tdonline said:
 
Thank you all the deities in the universe--Dory delivered!   Poor thing, she had a payload...

Now, I have to incorporate all the advice/suggestions so far to ensure she is more regular.  Unfortunately for the reintroduction process, it looks like we have to go back a step and allow Dory more alone time.  I'm going to discontinue leaving the door slightly ajar all day.  We'll give that a few days and see if that helps with Dory's stress and regularity.  
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Yah! Dory. Atta girl


Glad to hear that she was able to unload quite a bit versus just a little .. You must be so relieved that she went! .. 
 
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Can SEB be given to cats in capsule form?  Or must be it in slurry form?  My cats will eat capsules along with their food--that's how I medicate them.
 
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