He doesn't come close to smell me, he runs&hides. Is he ferel in his behavior?

Some cats are just more aloof by nature, or he may have had some bad experiences.  Or maybe he was taken from mom too soon.  There are so many reasons why he might be hiding.  Try to be patient and let him set the pace.  If he needs you, he will come to you.

Buckwheat - Your kitty may have feral tendencies but he may also just be unsure of the surroundings.  He may also have a shy or reticent nature.

I agree with djoe.  Start a new thread about Buckwheat and you will get plenty of help.

@djoe We have been feeding the cats for a few years and put the shelters in the garden center in the winter, we have seen them inside them so we know they are using them. I wish they were closer to our house as we could monitor the whole thing so much better, but there isn't a lot we can do....this is where they live.
Thanks again for all of your help. I will do everything I can to get them warmer this winter. And then I hope to get some sleep!

Remember one thing, anything you do for them makes them better off than if you were doing nothing.  It breaks my heart sometimes but with some cats you can only do as much for them as they will allow.  If you give them shelter then that's more shelter than they would have otherwise.  If you give them food, that's more food than they would have otherwise.  If you give them clean water, that's better quality water than they would get drinking out of a puddle somewhere.  Even though some ferals, heck, most ferals aren't going to become house cats, you are still helping them and making their lives a little better and a little easier. 

I couldn't agree more - wise words!!

A great natural material to insulate the ground under a shelter for ferals is dead, fallen pine tree needles. The dead brown ones have no sap on them. If you pile them into a mat a couple inches thick, they will even insulate against the cold of concrete. We used them with great success under a sheet of plywood leaned against a shed, kind of like a kitty lean-to. On the pine needles were medium sized boxes filled with bedding, deep enough to snuggle down into. When I could peek into the shelter, often kitties were hanging out right in the pine needles and not the beds. I had to sweep out and replace the needles a few times when the edges got wet in bad storms, so we kept a garbage bag full of clean, dry ones. It made for a very cheap but effective cold weather shelter.

What a wonderful, natural solution, happybird!

Great idea happybird!!!!

Thanks, y'all Honestly, I figured this out by being lazy, lol! We had a ton of huge pine trees in our yard and I was sick of sweeping up all the needles on the patio everyday. I left some in a big pile and noticed the next day that someone had been nesting in it
About a week after I made the shelter, I saw a story on the local news about how the small local zoo used pine needles for winter bedding in some of their enclosures.

Hi all

I am new to this site but see helpful discussion for our situation. Back in June I found a starving little cat raiding my garbage and started feeding her.  Soon after we discovered she had 4 beautiful kittens, amazing she kept them alive the emaciated shape she was in.  Fast forward and one has a home, we have adopted 3 and all (including mama "Patience") have been spayed/neutered, shots and regular flea/tick/earmite treatment and all are doing well.  We recently had an issue with the kits developing serious diarrhea, stool samples negative for parasites or disease but our vet diagnosed a bacterial infection and after initial shots they have been on antibiotics for 4 days now (serious vet bills!).  Our vet suggested adding some probiotics and/or mashed pumpkin in their food, which I am starting today.  Any thoughts on that?  They are all eating well but still have rather soft poop - not really diarrhea but, well, a bit squishy.  We don't have a lot of money so they are on cheap(ish) commercial cat food - any suggestions on reasonably priced better food?  I tried Wellness formula but they don't like it!

A related question (more to the point on this thread) is that although Mama Patience has become quite tame around me (permits and sometimes invites petting and even brief brushing with the flea comb) she is still skittish (touching only on her terms) and does not like to come inside - perhaps partly because her one experience was after being spayed (a major trauma) and after a few hours of her freaking out I let her back out.  She disappeared for a few days but then came back and recovered nicely.  While the kittens all sleep inside and spend a lot of the day inside with us and with each other, she is outside alone, which bothers me - though realistically in our small house we couldn't manage her too (3 stretches the seams!).  She does have other places she goes. I have an old, large carrier on our small roofed porch that I adopted for her sleeping with a towel and blanket inside and  an old rain poncho against rain, which works pretty well.  We have spare insulation board and batts from a house renovation that I am thinking of using (duct taped outside the carrier) for the winter, plus putting our old front door mat under for extra protection, but I'm concerned this still won't be warm enough when winter hits (we are in NJ, it gets pretty cold and snowy in winter).  Is straw better than a blanket?  Are heating pads safe - we do have an outlet outside but I'd worry about the cord.  Any thoughts? 

I would love to find her a permanent home, but realistically she's not a good prospect for adoption - the one interested person I tried she hissed at and tried to scratch!  So, it looks like I'm her best hope for survival.  She is plenty fat and sometimes even playful - but I suspect she's been abused in the past which makes her distrustful. btw, I doubt she is truly feral (she buries her poop and so did her kittens from an early age), just abandoned and mistreated.

thanks for any advice

Lrosewiles. Great job you are doing!!

Blankets are good but they keep humidity and don't isolate cols that well... I would add straws for sure.

is patience getting to spend some time with her kitties?

can you bring the shelter closer to your door? Did you try to slowly feed her inside? Like at the door step? If you manage to get her used to eating inside before the winter hits, when it is cold enough, she might at least stay at night...

Hi Djoe

Thanks for such a fast reply.  Yes they do spend some time together outside, and mostly eat together morning and evening, though I've been feeding the kits inside separately since the diarrhea because I didn't want Patience to get sick too.

I usually feed them all on the small porch right outside the front door, which is also where Patience's shelter is, and sit outside with them and leave the screen door propped open so she can come in if she wants to, and the kits come back inside when they are ready.  Necessary because we have other stray cats in the area that steal the food if not monitored. Good idea, I will try moving the food closer to the open door and see if I can tempt Patience into the Florida room (which the front door opens into) to eat.  And thinking I will get an extra litter box in there and get her used to the idea, at least it is floor tile so no big deal if there are accidents.  Will get straw for her shelter too. Happily we have some time to work on this, it's still pretty warm at night.

The whole kitten experience was caused by people down the street who feed cats but don't get them fixed - happy in one way because we have our beautiful kit cats, but a lapse of responsibility.  We have an organization in our town that spays/neuters ferals very reasonably ($55) and provides shots and flea treatment for a small extra fee, even rents traps to catch them, so really no excuse. 

For sure take the blankets out and put straw in. If wet, the blankets will acually wick heat away from the cat. An old carrier is okay, it's better than no shelter, but the ideal shelter is a rubbermaid tote with insulation and straw inside. Cut a hole so that when situated, the cat has just enough room to get in and make sure it is facing away from the direction the wind usually blows. Put ALOT of straw in it. The cat will actually burrow into the straw and move it around where it wants. After a few days, if you take the lid off of the tote, you'll see a perfectly round bowl shaped indentation where the cat curled up. I also add a mylar survival blanket (not absorbant) to the bottom of the tote, insulation, some cedar chips will help keep bugs out and then the straw. I also give it a dusting of diotamaceous earth to combat fleas or ticks on the cat.

dubvee said:

For sure take the blankets out and put straw in. If wet, the blankets will acually wick heat away from the cat. An old carrier is okay, it's better than no shelter, but the ideal shelter is a rubbermaid tote with insulation and straw inside. Cut a hole so that when situated, the cat has just enough room to get in and make sure it is facing away from the direction the wind usually blows. Put ALOT of straw in it. The cat will actually burrow into the straw and move it around where it wants. After a few days, if you take the lid off of the tote, you'll see a perfectly round bowl shaped indentation where the cat curled up. I also add a mylar survival blanket (not absorbant) to the bottom of the tote, insulation, some cedar chips will help keep bugs out and then the straw. I also give it a dusting of diotamaceous earth to combat fleas or ticks on the cat.

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The rubbermaid containers are super cheap and easy peasy to make.  Check online for pictures and examples.  I made two the first winter I had my feral.  Yet, he hated the straw.  He instead went to my neighbors and slept under their screened porch up against their house.  The mylar blankets are super cheap too and do help with some added insulation. 

Lrosewiles:  Everyone's given great advice, so I have nothing to add.  But I feel for you - I too have an irresponsible neighbor.  Two of us - one on either side of him, ended up with all the kittens he will not get fixed.  We have tried to convince him to spay his mommy cat (the source of all) but he thinks that's cruel.  So between us, we have spayed/neutered and found homes for almost 30 cats.  She has a colony at her house that has 15 from him.  I found homes for 13 cats and kept the last one who came into my yard.



We have briefly considered catnapping mommy but know we'd get caught, so we are doing our best.  Just for you info, though, Patience may very well keep other cats out of your yard.  It is her territory now, so others will probably not be welcomed!



Thank you for helping all of them!

 “my kitty has feral tendencies, but was found at about a week old and raised non feral by my friend.( no other cats around)  I have had him about two-three months, and he is mostly friendly in the middle of the night when I am sleeping (or pretending to sleep) as I LIVE for the times he "fixes my hair" His name is Rufio, and he still doesn't like petting so much, and likes to bite when I go to pet him.” But not always .

He runs my cats out of the house bugging them so much

Hi Ondine and kind others replying to my post

Sorry for delay responding, have been busy busy with work and house renovations and the kitty diarrhea situation!  That now seems resolved after several expensive trips to the vet (shots and antibiotics). I've added some home cooked pumpkin and probiotics to their diet and switched their wet food to Fancy Feast classic mixed with dry food, pending getting funds for something a bit better on the cat food market, and all seems to be well in that area.  Yes I will try to get some photos up of our 3 lovely kittens, all so different in looks and personalities.  While I do indeed cuss irresponsible folks in the neighborhood for feeding but not spaying/neutering 'their' feral cats, and am thinking of dropping off some flyers for our local spay/neuter clinic, we would never have had the joy of these lovely kittens if they HAD been responsible.  On the flip-side, why add to the unwanted kitten population, it's a terrible shame. I actually had a response to an earlier plea for homes for our adoptees but felt guilty to give a kitten that had a home, however overcrowded, to a nice lady "wanting a cat to replace hers who died" who will likely adopt one from a shelter as an alternative.  Besides our 3 have pawed their ways into our hearts and we want to keep the family together. They not only love us but each other; Mr. Patches (our "big boy") bounced back quickly from the stomach problems and was most loving and attentive to his 2 sisters who had a harder time with it.  And the one time he had a pooping accident in the bathroom, he was so embarrassed to have made a mess, he looked at me obviously expecting to be scolded and all I could say was I get it, it wasn't your fault that you were caught short!

On the momma Patience front we have made some progress, she has several times briefly come inside to eat and yesterday evening rolled over on the path to the door as if inviting a belly rub!  She shied away at the last moment but almost ...  My concern with her now is she is so food fixated (Scarlet O'Hara syndrome, I'll never be hungry again) that she is getting overly fat, and seems to think that all human contact must be food-based.  So I'm trying to work on petting her when she is not actually eating!  The weather is very mild her right now, but I will work on getting her box insulated and straw for her for the winter.

Another interesting touch, Ginger Tom from down the road, the suspected father of the kittens, has taken to visiting us too. Partly hoping Patience will leave some food for him, but he waits for her to finish eating and it seems to be partly for the company.  He is very tolerant of the kittens sniffing him out and they of him.  Do tomcats recognize their mates and offspring? 

Lrosewiles said:

 Partly hoping Patience will leave some food for him, but he waits for her to finish eating and it seems to be partly for the company.  He is very tolerant of the kittens sniffing him out and they of him.  Do tomcats recognize their mates and offspring? 

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Interesting question.  I myself think the connection is if they are pals with the mom, so they will be pals and  protectors of the kittens too.

Family groups with the tom as co-caretaker and co-protector arent unusual, reading what our forumites tell.  

Neutered males are quite often (co-)caretakers, or at least well wishing uncles, that is well known.

 I have read breeders tell their studs, are quite often  help moms to the queens and their litters, also where the father was a stud from outside. -  Simply, they were pals with the mom, and friendly males   (if they were unfriendly they wouldnt probably be used as studs either, and spayed early).

-  If you ask me how come they breeders in question did dare to have intact toms and intact females together, and preferred not to have ooops litters, it is another question and another story!