3 orphaned strays(photos) - time to say goodbye? Seeking advice

Hi there,

I have been postponing this post; because it gets me closer to sending the foster kittens away… I need to think out loud, and I would appreciate your input on this…  Here’s the story:

2 months ago I got a call from a relative to help her find shelter for 3 kittens whose mother was killed, they were 3-4 days old. That was already 3-4 days after the accident, so they had to be taken care of immediately – they were so weak. I called all animal shelters in the country (barely 3 that we have) and they all refused to take them in because they were too young.

[Shelters in this country are highly controversial – they mostly host dogs not cats, and when they take cats in, it is normally very limited – and I don’t know on which basis they make the decision – and the certainly don’t take n any kittens]  I tried everything possible and even offered people to pay them money to take care of them…. Even those who already had kittens refused. And apparently, due to the bad security situation in the country, foreigners (who normally volunteer for fostering kittens) are out.

Buttom line, these poor little fellows had nobody but me. The problem with me fostering them was that I have a 13 year old mean arrogant Persian who gets violent when she sees other animals, a mother that has issues with animals in general – cats and dogs in particular, and the rest of the family who have zero affection towards cats. It was tough at first… we spent the first 2 weeks wandering from one place to another – me and the kittens, including spending nights in the car – until the family realized that they are not going away anytime soon, and they have been living on my balcony since then.

These kittens have been through a lot. They were simply fading when I got them. Specially Gebran, the eldest. On the morning I woke and thought he was gone, I couldn’t find his pulse and I wasn’t sure if he was breathing – that bad! And vets would tell me there is nothing they could do– Cynthia, the youngest, had a terrible infection in her toe and her ear when I got her – her brothers sucked on her for 4 days when they were alone, and she must have caught something from the dirt that turned it into a terrible infection. 2 days after I got her, the external medicine was not helping, and we were in a rural place where there were no vets… I drove her for hours to a vet to fix her toe and we started oral medicine (so risky at her age but I administered very careful dosage for only 3 days)  but on the next day her ear had so much pus and it was turning into an infection, and the vet was not available – I had to operate her myself – I saw how the vet cleaned her toe, I did the same thing with her ear, just softer than he did it…. Eventually we got through it, the fever was gone it was a long process for her ear to heal but we got there eventually.  Then Qays her brother had a phase of vomiting, and he stretched a muscle, and then Gebran her eldest brother had diarrhea and anus irritation… we got through it all eventually.

Long story short, I am telling you these details, because 1- These events made it impossible for me not to get personal with the kittens and 2- I worry that when they go away, they might get sick or whatever! And I won’t be there to take care!

I always knew that these kittens are not here to stay – and I have no intention to deprive them of their liberty. They were born strays, and they will love living in a garden, outdoors, wandering around and messing everything up like they are doing now on the balcony. In any case I am only here temporarily and I will soon move out again… maybe a few months’ time.

They are 9 weeks old now – I think that I am harming them if I keep them here longer: 1- they need to get accustomed to live outdoors and rely on themselves, and 2- I don’t want them to get used to processed dry food.

I have taught hunting and we exercise hunting every day, and I am adding homemade food to their dry food – but I am a vegan, so I only have meat for them when my mom cooks something they can eat.

Now I am lost what to do!

I don’t want to send them for adoption – I believe that I don’t “own” the kittens, and I can’t design their life for them. Plus it will take ages for them to get adopted because we don’t have efficient systems here, and I really don’t want to separate them from each other. I think that I should interfere as minimum as possible with the course of nature.

I think that now that they can eat from a plate I can put them back in the garden where they were born.. but there is always a risk something will kill them, just like their mom…. Even though there are many cats there…   The other option is to take them to my village and my uncle will put food for them… but there is a risk the neighbors will poison them (they put poison for snakes every year, and every year cats end up dying of it).

I am at loss what to do here… I would love to keep them with me, but if I do that, I will be selfish and not thinking of them… plus, I don’t have the means (space and lifestyle/traveling) to keep them.  And keep them with Lucy my 13 year old mistress-cat is only going to hurt her more… She is already super aggressive with me since I got them and she is depressed.

Can you think out loud with me?

And do we deworm strays? Because if we do, it’s about time.. they are 9 weeks old now.

I just want what is best for them.

Thank you in advance….
Sad Djoe.

Gebran:


Qays:


Cynthia:

Thank you so much for rescuing these poor kittens. I understand the difficult situation you are in, but these kittens are not old enough to be released back outside. Predators (including other cats) will kill them as they do not have the ability to defend themselves. Is there any way you can find homes for them? Yes, it would be better if they could be kept together, but it would be even better for them to have safe indoor homes. I know you say that you taught them to hunt, but being separated from their mom so young, they really have missed out on so much learning. They also will not fear humans as you brought them up and are essentially their mom. The "course of nature" for outdoor cats is a short brutal life. Since you have already intervened and saved their lives, they are really much more suited to an indoor life as somebody's house cats.

If you must release them outside, please wait as long as possible and also get them neutered/spayed before then. I really hope that you can find a safer option for these babies though.

I agree with vball91. I think the first priority is to get them spayed/neutered; they will roam less (looking for love) and be healthier. In the country where you live, will vets spay/neuter cats?
Yes, you can deworm strays, but the higher priority is s/n; they are about old enough now to do so (assuming they weigh 2 pounds).
Are there other cat lovers in your country?
And of the two options--taking them to your uncle or keeping them with you in the garden: the garden is preferable because as I understand it, the garden is closer to you. Is the garden fenced in? (Be careful, though; some plants are toxic to cats.)
PS: adorable kittens, I can see why you fell in love with them.

Thank you vball and Ritz.
I love these cats (all animals in fact) regardless of their beauty. I am attached to these ones though.
I don't know about getting them safe homes. I will start looking for ones. The cat shelters promised to put up ads online but did not do so. And I know that most people who get stray cats here end up sending them back out on the streets because they are assumed to be local street cats - and not a special breed cat. (As in 2nd degree cats)

Every option I think of, has a risk... the garden where they were born is not ours it is for relatives but it not fenced.

There is one more option. There is a university here that has a "cats garden" where cats roam around freely in a large fenced garden and get food twice a day.

If their mom didn't die..they would just roam around that garden and live a regular life of strays and the risks that come with it... but then I think they came my way for a good reason..

I am so sorry to be so unsure...it is such a responsibility, and the culture here makes it harder.

djoe said:

I am so sorry to be so unsure...it is such a responsibility, and the culture here makes it harder.

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Please do not apologize. You are doing the best you can for these kittens who would have died without your help. I'm sure it is very difficult without any support.

djoe said:

There is one more option. There is a university here that has a "cats garden" where cats roam around freely in a large fenced garden and get food twice a day.
 

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If you cannot find indoor homes for them, this might be the best option. At least they will be safe from predators and fed regularly. I'm assuming all cats in this garden are spayed/neutered otherwise there would quickly be too many cats to care for.

I have started looking for a him that would take the three babies in... even if takes time I will keep trying until I find what is best for them...after all, my balcony is too small for them; this is not a life, and in a couple of months it will be super cold...

I am worried that if they stay longer how will that impact my 13 year old cat, lucy. She is already too upset with me and depressed. She stooped playing and spends her day sleeping walking a bit around the apartment, she used like this balcony... now she comes maximum 3 meters close to the door and starts hissing and she has given dozens of scratches so far.

I have tried a lot to do slow introductions, but no results ...

Here is Lucy, she even looks sad!

I won't chastise at all as you've already gone above and beyond the call of duty most folks to - but just a few things:

9 weeks is way to young to be placed outside and hope they'll survive. THey've now  been away from Mama and will have forgotten a VERY large part of their feral skills. At that stage of their lives she was just barely weaning them and teaching them to hunt - so they really wont have the means to procurr food or even know how to find proper shelter. Or fend for themselves well. Not to be blunt - but They wouldn't have much of a shot of making it.

And PLEASE don't turn them out without spaying/neutering....you'd be sending them off to a life (if they do learn to fend for themselves) of constantly searching for mates - a search and adrive that is so storng that they will disregard traffic if they're male and hear the cry of a female in heat. Or if they're femaie, they'll be mated against they're will multiple times a year, often giving birth multpile time in one season even before the previous phsyical toll of the previous birth has healed. It's hard for any feral/stray cats....but it's almost infathomably hard for those furry guys that aren't spayed or neutered first. 

And please explore all adoption options before just letting these guys go - try shelters that are "cat onlY' - they're more like to be "no kill" but check into all "no kill" shelters. Don't just call - they'll definitely say they're full - but show up WITH the kittens ---- you have a much better chance of them taking them in. Try specialty places (I don't know where you live - but an example here in northwest ohio is Friends of Feline Rescue ---they're a no-cage, no-kill, and will sometimes take hard-luck cases like yours. Or at the very lest help you find homes. I know it feels daunting - I've been there more times than I'd like to count - but PLEASE explore lots of options before just letting them go. Imagine letting your Lucy go tomorrow morning on the streets? She'd be clueless...and wouldn't have much of a chance. I know that's a hard way to think about it - but remember, just because these guys started tiny and outside - they're almost as far removed from it skill=wise as your darling Lucy

Again - I applaud what you've done - now just see it through to the finish line!!!!! You'll get there - I promise! Keep us posted!!!

Kittychick

Hey kittychick,

Thanks for the detailed brainstorming... the "outdoors" I am talking about is nit the streets or the wild... it is a backyard of relatives, they will feed them and provide a small Outdoor hideout for them. It is not terribly bad, but indeed they will not be protected and will have the same life as the indigenous local cats -which is what they are. Many people have been telling me to let them out to the garden now so that they adapt. And they accuse me of depriving them of their natural habitat and freedom to - they have a point.

In this country there are no cat shelters and we don't have the "kill shelter" concept at all. In the entire country there are only 3 animal shelters 2 for dogs and 1 for wildlife and that's it. Animals are sometimes better off in the mountains than in one of these dirty overcrowded prisons called shelters here.

Villages and apartment complexes here are full of cats who love off people's leftovers and people like to have cats around their homes to clean up of rats and mice ans spiders and so on. When I used to live in the village we had 13 outdoor cats...they ruled!


So the question is which life do I want to give to these kittens...a normal free wnd spacious but probably not so long life...or an indoor life; which by the way in not necessarily guaranteed. ..

I have started the mouth to ear spreading the word for adoption, and will see how that goes...

I didn't know the importance of s/n. I normally thought it is for population control, which is not important in this country because outdoor cats are part of the culture. But I will read more about it.

Thank you for your advice; this has been very helpful...I very much appreciate it.

I love them so much I can't imagine them needing anything!! and if it wasn't for lucy and for me living abroad I would have kept them!!!

Bless you for rescuing those beautiful kitties and congratulations on successfully nursing them back to health! I truly feel that God put you in their lives for a reason that He only knows

Once your kitties are spayed & neutered, you can really begin the challenge of finding them homes. The cat garden and being cared for your relatives are also good choices, once the kittens are much older. I hope that your own kitty feels better soon - I know it's extra work, but maybe you can groom her & play with her more than with the kittens. I do a feral rescue and my own kitties do get jealous; however, if I praise my own kitties in front of the temporary-kitties, it helps my own kitties feel proud. I tell all the cats, "Look at my beautiful Lizzie! What a beautiful princess! Have you ever seen such a precious kittenz as my Lizzie!" and the cats will all look at Lizzie and Lizzie will hold up her tail like a flag pole and come to be rubbed and scritched and then go sniff noses with the newbies and sometimes play with them. Your family might look at you funny, but I swear the cats all understand the language!

Thank you all!!!
Lucy is now very sick (bleeding tumour!) And seeing them even behind the glass makes her extremely stressed. I must speed up the process but things are not moving... I hope they will be lucky enough to find them an equally loving home and more!
I have to take care of lucy more these days, even thought she absolutely hates me now.


wish us luck! And thank you all!

Hi everyone... I have an appointment tomorrow to spay and neuter...and I am panicking....
I don't know. Guilt is eating my stomach. I think I should cancel.... plus I couldn't ffind them homes yet.... I feel like I am mutilating the poor kittens. I am seriously freaking out!!!!! I am afraid if they look at me after the operation as if they will tell me who gave you the authority to mess with our bodies and freedom....

Plus imagine if a teenage girl remove a her ovaries! It will moat certainly impact her growth and wellbe2ing!

But at the same time I know we cant have more stray kittens!

And then if I jave to travel before finding them homes. They will have to go to a relative's backyard. And feel abandoned....and their bodies messed up with....


I am confused I am not sure... I can't hurt them!

Here they are....  

Spay/neuter is the right thing to do. You are not hurting them. It is not the same as for humans. Studies have shown that early spay/neuter does not affect development in cats. Even if you must leave them to become outdoor cats later, they will still reap the benefits and lead healthier, longer lives than as intact cats. Here are some of the benefits from spayusa.org:

Benefits of Spaying (females):

• No heat cycles, therefore males will not be attracted
• Less desire to roam
• Risk of mammary gland tumors, ovarian and/or uterine cancer is reduced or eliminated, especially if done before the first heat cycle
• Reduces number of unwanted cats/kittens/dogs/puppies
• Helps dogs and cats live longer, healthier lives

Benefits of Neutering (males):

• Reduces or eliminates risk of spraying and marking
• Less desire to roam, therefore less likely to be injured in fights or auto accidents
• Risk of testicular cancer is eliminated, and decreases incidence of prostate disease
• Reduces number of unwanted cats/kittens/dogs/puppies
• Decreases aggressive behavior, including dog bites
• Helps dogs and cats live longer, healthier lives

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•  

I have been reading so much about s/n  and i realize the health benefits... But I am trying to be in their shoes, and it still doesn't feel ok from an ethical point of view...

have any of  your cats shown signs of resentment after the operation?  Are they aware or conscious of you do to them?

I understand we're from different countries with very different thoughts on kitties (although obviously there are people everywhere with big, soft hearts for kitties like you!) and on spay/neuter. I can certainly understand your fear of hurting the kittens. Every time I have a kitten (or any animal, for that  matter) operated on for any reason I have alot of anxiety about their pain and how they obviously can't understand why they're undergoing it!  

But the things that I try to keep in mind about spaying and neutering: 1) cats that have NOT been "fixed" have to go through the constant stress of continually finding mates - and for females the enormous stress on their bodies of being pregnant multiple times in one year with multiple babies, of which then they face the stress over many of the babies not surviving as outdoor kittens have a much higher mortality rate...males don't go through the toll of the pregnancies but they do shorten their lives if not neutered by fighting alot more for territory and females...and 2) spaying/neutering reduces things like spraying urine and territorial aggression which makes them much better indoor cats and buddies, but even if they have to be outside makes them often make them less threatening "cat friends" ... 3) spaying/neutering has been found to really reduce various cancers for them later in life.  And so I remind myself that the VERY short recovery period (most female cats are back to normal in just a few days, and little boy kittens are pretty much back to loving life by the next day! ) are truly worth it to save them from alot more pain later in life!!! I know that you worry about interfering with the natural way of the cats - but maybe think about it this way - it's not too much different than interfering with the natural way if you or your family needed a surgery to fix something that could eventually harm them. You're helping - not hurting - in the long run

I'm so sorry to hear about your Lucy - I hope that you're able to do all you can for her. I know how hard that is to have your best cat buddy sick. Hopefully the vets can find ways to help her! And it's very possible that not feeling well may be why Lucy has seemed to be so upset - she was actually telling you that she didn't feel well, not as much that she was upset. So once you're able to help her feel a little better - she may not seem quite so depressed. Animals have a way of sometimes just "retreating" and conserving their body's energy when they're not well I hope that she feels better soon!!

And keep us posted on the little ones - you're obviously working SO hard and care so much!!!!

(I guess I took a little too much time to write another of my really long replies - vball91 beat me to it!

And to answer your last question - not a one of them has ever shown any resentment, and counting all my fosters (and we just got two 2-week old fosters - so i know I'll be going through my own surgery stress soon!) it's been alot of them! In fact, it's rare that they don't come climb right on your lap to rest afterward since they know you love them and care! 

I try not to attribute human emotions to cats. Do cats really feel resentment? Can they miss something they have never known?

If you do try to put yourself in their shoes so to speak, think of it this way. Would you rather live your life ruled by hormones that insist that you must find a mate, defend territory, get in fights, endure painful mating (at least for the female) and undergo possibly painful birth and dying an early death from too many pregnancies? OR would you rather live a life free from all that and be able to enjoy other things like cat and human companionship as well as having a much-reduced risk of several types of cancer? I know what I would choose.

Kittychick and vball,  thanks for sharing your experience and your p.o.v.... I will make sure to read this again in the morning for backup!

Kittychick you are right about the cultural differences... after reading so much about s/n, I realize that it is largely encouraged for population control, particularly in urban areas in the U.S or U.K or so.... where it seems that feral/stray cat population is a problem. (I also learned about the health benefits).   But here, feral/stray cats are part of the normal setting; in fact many people appreciate having cats around to keep rodent population in check; and their are lunatics who poison them "so that they don't pee on their grass" or shoot them for fun...  But there is no cat population (numbers) problem per say, to require population control measures. There is definitely a "humane" problem of how people treat or perceive cats - that's a global issue.

But back to the point, these 3 kittens are too cuddly and friendly to be stray cats; I hope they find homes but if not, then I hope this operation will indeed reduce risks and dangers that outdoor cats face.... I can't imagine them living outside though... they are too sweet and affectionate to survive it.... Everything must take its course in the end... I will do my very best, and hope for a pinch of good luck.

Thank you for the continued support!!!!

paws and purrs

Hiall,
So it's done now...no turning back...
the boys' testicules ... I mean they are gone...but what is left looks much bigger than before..is this normal?

Poor cynthiagirl has a wound.... should I separate her from the boys?


Thanks!