Spica needs your help - Illness unexplained by two vets

Hello everyone. It's been several years since I was here last. Life has kept me busy and I've since grown up. I believe I was 16-19 when I first joined. Now I'm 28! Amazing that this forum has endured. I wish I was returning under better circumstances but I need your help.

For the last three months, my 10yr old Spica has been ill. Not sure if you will remember, but she's the long-hair tortoiseshell. She is indoor only, along with my other three cats. She's been sneezing green mucus which occasionally has a slight odor, labored breathing, snoring during sleep and decreased grooming. Eyes are clear. She still eats and drinks. No fever. Clavamox and Baytril were tried, but did not cure. The symptoms were better for a few days. Back to the vet yesterday. Heartworms negative. No fever. Lungs and teeth fine. Blood panel only showed elevated glucose. The rest normal. She was given a steroid shot and I was told it would last a few weeks and to then return for oral drops - that she would have this indefinitely. Yet, they couldn't tell me 'what' was wrong. Yesterday she was better after the steroids. I had hope! Today the steroids seem to have her breathing more labored (visible chest movement and open mouth) with low appetite and lack of interest. Two different vets and they still can't tell me what is wrong with her. Any ideas?

Thanks everyone!

Forgot to add:

my three tomcats have no symptoms and have appeared to not be affected by her mystery illness.

All cats are fixed and healthy. No fleas. No symptomatic illnesses in 10 yrs!

They are free fed Iams Multi-cat + indoor weight control. Rarely given canned or treats.

She gets about a teaspoon of milk with my breakfast. It's her favorite treat.

I use Cats Pride odor free clumping litter - scooped daily - three days in two large boxes.

Mods, please delete this second post (not the starting post). Finally found the post editor.

Hi there and welcome back! 

I am sorry your kitty is sick. it actually sounds a lot like the symptoms our old family cat who had a terrible case of herpes. I believe it can stay dormant and then flair up. I know l lysine is often recommended for this. 

It could also just be a bad URI. I know a lot of people take their cats in the bathroom and turn the shower on. 

It sounds like the herpes virus?
 

Agree with the previous poster - try giving her Lysine. With regular moderate usage it can do wonders in getting rid of the symptons. You can get them in capsule form and just mix it in some wet foods. Some start off with 1000 mg then gradually go down to 500 mg.

Lysine can be found at drugstores or even places like Walmart, usually marketed for the herpes virus in humans. There are also other types of antibiotics/antiviral med that can help suppress the symptons.
 

Unfortuntely, once the cat has it they have it for life, so now it is about maintanance. Good food, meds and a nice clean and peaceful environment will lead to success.

The shower technique can help too, or you can use a humidifier. Also, sometimes (at least allegedly) a sudden change in weather can trigger a flair up, like having a cool day one day suddenly turn very hot the next. Stress can also cause flair ups. To encourage a disinterest kitty to eat, you can gently heat up the food to create a more promiment smell.


If it is the herpes, remember that it can be contagious to other cats. You can do simple things like washing your hands inbetween touching cats, or disinfecting certain areas, or seperate if there is a flair up going on. It can spread by shared litter boxes, nasal and eye discharge, sharing food/water etc Kittens and older cats, not suprisingly, are at higher risk for getting the illness.

Definitely feel free to find/look up another vet or expert for more advice on the subject! Perhaps it could be something else as well, for all we know. Best of luck!

Franksmom said:

Hi there and welcome back! 

I am sorry your kitty is sick. it actually sounds a lot like the symptoms our old family cat who had a terrible case of herpes. I believe it can stay dormant and then flair up. I know l lysine is often recommended for this. 

It could also just be a bad URI. I know a lot of people take their cats in the bathroom and turn the shower on. 

Click to expand...

Hello! Thank you.

Me too...not knowing for sure why is worrying me greatly. I've heard of I lysine...curious why neither vet mentioned it.
If it is, I've never seen one like this. It's primarily affecting her sinuses. Her lungs were clear. I've been keeping my humidifier running non-stop as I've also been ill with something like bronchitis. I find it odd that we've both been sick, but the vets said I was silly to consider a common reason and that it was just coincidence.

Cassiopea said:

It sounds like the herpes virus?

Agree with the previous poster - try giving her Lysine. With regular moderate usage it can do wonders in getting rid of the symptoms. You can get them in capsule form and just mix it in some wet foods. Some start off with 1000 mg then gradually go down to 500 mg.

Lysine can be found at drugstores or even places like Walmart, usually marketed for the herpes virus in humans. There are also other types of antibiotics/antiviral med that can help suppress the symptoms.

Unfortunately, once the cat has it they have it for life, so now it is about maintenance. Good food, meds and a nice clean and peaceful environment will lead to success.

The shower technique can help too, or you can use a humidifier. Also, sometimes (at least allegedly) a sudden change in weather can trigger a flair up, like having a cool day one day suddenly turn very hot the next. Stress can also cause flair ups. To encourage a disinterest kitty to eat, you can gently heat up the food to create a more prominent smell.

If it is the herpes, remember that it can be contagious to other cats. You can do simple things like washing your hands inbetween touching cats, or disinfecting certain areas, or separate if there is a flair up going on. It can spread by shared litter boxes, nasal and eye discharge, sharing food/water etc Kittens and older cats, not surprisingly, are at higher risk for getting the illness.

Definitely feel free to find/look up another vet or expert for more advice on the subject! Perhaps it could be something else as well, for all we know. Best of luck!

Click to expand...

I'll definitely look into Lysine.

Is there a way to know for sure if it's herpes? Why wouldn't the vet have tested her?

I'm already ensuring to keep her as comfortable and stress free as possible. Her breathing sounds so sad...

Sofar the humidifier seems to help, but not much. Our weather (KY) has been abnormally cool this summer. Of course, they're all indoors so the temperature doesn't fluctuate much. I keep the air on 74-76 during the day and 74 at night. We prefer it warmer to save on bills. I hope it's not too warm for cats? The air still comes on frequently and we have fans running to keep the air circulating.

Sofar, she's ate a whole can of shredded food today, but her appetite is still down. She'd been eating fine. Yesterday after the steroid shot she inhaled 2 cans of food.. Took me all day to get that one can eaten. Odd since she rarely gets canned food. She's just worse today compared to the last few months...not sure if that's typical with steroids...

That is a big problem...all four cats are indoors. They've all been exposed to each other their entire life. Including now. None have shown symptoms so I'd assumed it wasn't contagious. The vets never mentioned separation. It worries me that they'll get this too. The vets seemed to think it was just her, yet couldn't explain a cause. I have no problem with sterility, but by now - it would already be too late...

Gothic_Amethyst said:

I'll definitely look into Lysine.

Is there a way to know for sure if it's herpes? Why wouldn't the vet have tested her?

I'm already ensuring to keep her as comfortable and stress free as possible. Her breathing sounds so sad...

Sofar the humidifier seems to help, but not much. Our weather (KY) has been abnormally cool this summer. Of course, they're all indoors so the temperature doesn't fluctuate much. I keep the air on 74-76 during the day and 74 at night. We prefer it warmer to save on bills. I hope it's not too warm for cats? The air still comes on frequently and we have fans running to keep the air circulating.

Sofar, she's ate a whole can of shredded food today, but her appetite is still down. She'd been eating fine. Yesterday after the steroid shot she inhaled 2 cans of food.. Took me all day to get that one can eaten. Odd since she rarely gets canned food. She's just worse today compared to the last few months...not sure if that's typical with steroids...

That is a big problem...all four cats are indoors. They've all been exposed to each other their entire life. Including now. None have shown symptoms so I'd assumed it wasn't contagious. The vets never mentioned separation. It worries me that they'll get this too. The vets seemed to think it was just her, yet couldn't explain a cause. I have no problem with sterility, but by now - it would already be too late...

Click to expand...

Herpes is contagious but it can be asymptomatic and usually cats with healthy immune systems are able to be exposed without getting sick. As for a test for herpes there is a test for FHV-1 but since a lot of cats are carriers it is often not used. If after you have tried l-lysine and she is still sick vets do sometimes treat it is with antiviral meds such as  famciclovir 

 If it is a URI the other cats again may have stronger immune systems and were able to fight it off. 

The fact that she has been sick for so long is an indication there might be something else going on to make her immune system compromised. The elevated glucose makes and her age me wonder about diabetes? According to the latest studies a low carb meat based diet can be used successfully to treat diabetes. Here is one vet's opinion on how to treat it with diet changes (http://www.catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes) 

Hi Gothic_Amethyst !

Has your Vet done a culture or, just 'throwing' antibiotics without knowing what the target is?

The open-mouth breathing is very concerning to me.....like, really concerning.

Is this a feline-only Vet? Not knowing about L-lysine....that makes me doubt it.

I'd be watching her like a hawk tonight.......depending on how severe I thought it was, I might even head to the ER.

There are symptomatic home treatments - such as were mentioned above. For some others and a detailed how-to, you can have a read here: http://www.harpsie.com/cat_flu.htm#treatments

For more about 'cat flu' and the viruses behind it, here:  http://www.harpsie.com/cat_flu.htm#feline_herpes

For tonight, at the very least, you should have her in a warm room with the humidifier going full blast.

Hope that helps.

Franksmom said:

Herpes is contagious but it can be asymptomatic and usually cats with healthy immune systems are able to be exposed without getting sick. As for a test for herpes there is a test for FHV-1 but since a lot of cats are carriers it is often not used. If after you have tried l-lysine and she is still sick vets do sometimes treat it is with antiviral meds such as  famciclovir 

 If it is a URI the other cats again may have stronger immune systems and were able to fight it off. 

The fact that she has been sick for so long is an indication there might be something else going on to make her immune system compromised. The elevated glucose makes and her age me wonder about diabetes? According to the latest studies a low carb meat based diet can be used successfully to treat diabetes. Here is one vet's opinion on how to treat it with diet changes (http://www.catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes) 

Click to expand...

That's what I thought. I'm unsure what triggered her illness. There have been no recent changes in diet or household. I found it odd that neither vet tested her for that or the other common cat ailments. I will look into the L-Lysine and ask them about the antiviral meds when we go back in a few weeks as directed after steroid shot has wore off (unless there is emergency earlier).

Agreed. She's also the oldest cat here too. Two of the three boys are off by maybe a year. The other male I've had about 6 years.

No idea. I just want to know what she has and why. It's bugging me. I was worried about that too when the test showed elevated glucose, but the vet assumed it was just stress from illness and said to not worry about it just yet until we get her sinus under control. Would diabetes cause a sinus ailment?? Interesting info on the low carb meat diet. It's worth a try...

White Shadow said:

Hi Gothic_Amethyst !

Has your Vet done a culture or, just 'throwing' antibiotics without knowing what the target is?

The open-mouth breathing is very concerning to me.....like, really concerning.

Is this a feline-only Vet? Not knowing about L-lysine....that makes me doubt it.

I'd be watching her like a hawk tonight.......depending on how severe I thought it was, I might even head to the ER.

There are symptomatic home treatments - such as were mentioned above. For some others and a detailed how-to, you can have a read here: http://www.harpsie.com/cat_flu.htm#treatments

For more about 'cat flu' and the viruses behind it, here:  http://www.harpsie.com/cat_flu.htm#feline_herpes

For tonight, at the very least, you should have her in a warm room with the humidifier going full blast.

Hope that helps.

Click to expand...

Hello!

There was never a culture. I found that odd, but at the time didn't think to question it. With vet two, I'm supposed to return after a few weeks when the steroid has worn off and get some drops. I don't yet know what, but I was planning to ask them then about culture.

It really worries me too. Primarily when she's sleeping...I rarely see it when she's awake. Sometimes I wake her just so she's not continuing to do that.

None of the vets here are feline only. Vet one is the oldest in town. They also handle large animals and are less clean, more stressful 'cut and dry' type. Vet two is the higher class 'doctor' type experience for pets and owners with boarding and even an over the bridge room. They also cover wildlife. I pet a raccoon even! I felt the experience was much less stressful and more helpful at vet 2, but neither could provide a reason or a cure.

Thankfully today she's acting better than she was yesterday. I finally got her to eat a can of wet last night which was a relief. As rarely as they get wet, she usually would've inhaled it so I was really worried yesterday. Sofar tonight she's still eating and drinking good and showing interest in my food again. Which is one of the oddest symptoms with this...she's actually stealing my food. She never did that before unless it was milk. She's stolen: green pepper, mushroom, blueberry bagel with butter, butternut squash soup. Maybe she's lacking something or her nose is confused?

I've kept the air down low and humidifier running. What I find odd is that Spica and I are both sick at the same time with the same type of symptoms. I find that the biggest mystery of all.

Gothic_Amethyst said:

No idea. I just want to know what she has and why. It's bugging me. I was worried about that too when the test showed elevated glucose, but the vet assumed it was just stress from illness and said to not worry about it just yet until we get her sinus under control. Would diabetes cause a sinus ailment?? Interesting info on the low carb meat diet. It's worth a try...

Click to expand...

I am not sure about in cats but our family poodle developed what we thought was a cold but was actually severe diabetes, but her blood test showed super high blood sugar when we brought her it and sadly we eded up losing her The vet said their immune function often drops, at least in dogs, when they develop diabetes so they often have secondary infections. I think if it is just slightly elevated it may be ok but maybe google or post her numbers on here to see if they are in the range you should be concerned. Is she drinking and urinating a lot? That is the number one sign she has it. 

Hi. Hope you don't mind me joining in. Just I came on to this site a few weeks ago looking into feline herpes virus, L Lysine, and Famciclovir as my boy had just been diagnosed with FHV and prescribed 2 weeks Famciclovir tablets.

I agree with others - I'd be looking for a culture: non specific antibiotics might not be targeting the right bacterial infection, and I certainly wouldn't want to be giving my cat Famciclovir unless is was FHV and appropriate for a 1st or severe FHV outbreak as it's a pretty strong drug (verified by my vet and on line reading. Oh, and it is far from cheep). As far as I understand, the L lysine doesn't do any harm but people find it helps block the virus if a cat has it in their system.

As for showing symptoms, the only cats my boy has ever had contact with have never had any signs of the virus. My boy started to show symptoms when he was teething: first lesions as in his mouth and then runny eyes. He'd always had a funny sneezing habit but it was never picked up on until recently as had only been sporadic. When the vet looked at his overall presentation of the past 2 years the significance became more apparent.   In the general blood screens they do here in the UK it doesn't show up but there is a specific test - my vet believes it isn't always conclusive and is happy to go with good history and examination where other blood screening has been done but I'm not sure how you'd get on with a less cat-friendly clinic.

If  were you, I'd push for the FHV 1 investigation if a culture and appropriate anti-biotic don't clear everything up, plus checking out the blood sugar that Franksmom recommended. 

Hope you manage to get her more comfortable and find out what's going on soon, she sounds really poorly. 

MServant said:

As far as I understand, the L lysine doesn't do any harm but people find it helps block the virus if a cat has it in their system.

Click to expand...

Just to clarify that point...........here's how it works (and why):

Lysine and arginine are both amino acids. The herpes virus requires arginine to replicate. Lysine is an arginine antagonist, which means it blocks the virus accessing arginine and thus reduces the ability of the virus to replicate.

http://www.harpsie.com/cat_flu.htm#l-lysine

Click to expand...

So, L-lysine 'puts the lid' on virus 'expansion' ........and the cat's system to deal with the 'existing' outbreak....which is why we see (usually) an improvement in symptoms after starting L-lysine.

Franksmom said:

I am not sure about in cats but our family poodle developed what we thought was a cold but was actually severe diabetes, but her blood test showed super high blood sugar when we brought her it and sadly we eded up losing her The vet said their immune function often drops, at least in dogs, when they develop diabetes so they often have secondary infections. I think if it is just slightly elevated it may be ok but maybe google or post her numbers on here to see if they are in the range you should be concerned. Is she drinking and urinating a lot? That is the number one sign she has it. 

Click to expand...

I'll have to get a copy of the labwork from the vet. He said he didn't think it meant anything other than where she was ill, but it worried me since it was the only panel high. She drinks alot, but where she's been sick it's hard to determine if is due to illness or if is a diabetes symptom like with us. The other three cats are totally fine. They all eat the same and everything...except for her. I've given her about a tablespoon of my milk from breakfast for years. It's her favorite treat...

MServant said:

Hi. Hope you don't mind me joining in. Just I came on to this site a few weeks ago looking into feline herpes virus, L Lysine, and Famciclovir as my boy had just been diagnosed with FHV and prescribed 2 weeks Famciclovir tablets.

I agree with others - I'd be looking for a culture: non specific antibiotics might not be targeting the right bacterial infection, and I certainly wouldn't want to be giving my cat Famciclovir unless is was FHV and appropriate for a 1st or severe FHV outbreak as it's a pretty strong drug (verified by my vet and on line reading. Oh, and it is far from cheep). As far as I understand, the L lysine doesn't do any harm but people find it helps block the virus if a cat has it in their system.

As for showing symptoms, the only cats my boy has ever had contact with have never had any signs of the virus. My boy started to show symptoms when he was teething: first lesions as in his mouth and then runny eyes. He'd always had a funny sneezing habit but it was never picked up on until recently as had only been sporadic. When the vet looked at his overall presentation of the past 2 years the significance became more apparent.   In the general blood screens they do here in the UK it doesn't show up but there is a specific test - my vet believes it isn't always conclusive and is happy to go with good history and examination where other blood screening has been done but I'm not sure how you'd get on with a less cat-friendly clinic.

If  were you, I'd push for the FHV 1 investigation if a culture and appropriate anti-biotic don't clear everything up, plus checking out the blood sugar that Franksmom recommended. 

Hope you manage to get her more comfortable and find out what's going on soon, she sounds really poorly. 

Click to expand...

As soon as I return after the steroids end as directed then I'm making them do a culture. I wish I had a better vet locally. Just feels like neither really are concerned enough. I'm hoping it's not FHV or something similar. Her teeth and everything were normal. Neither could really give me a cause. The second seemed to think all I could do was make her comfortable...

I'm wondering about suddenly developing allergies. Today, I had company so had turned on my wax burner. She's worse tonight in regards to her sinus. She'd been alot better the last few days. As soon as I noticed her worse, I unplugged the wax and turned on fans, opened windows etc. Hooking up my humidifier again now.

So now we're up to THREE vets. This third one was way more aggressive towards attempting to find a solution, but still nothing. He has no idea. Tuesday morning, I almost lost her. She became suddenly lethargic and was drooling pools of mucus from her mouth. It was foul smelling and green like what was sneezed. I kept her clean and rushed her to the vet. They said she was about 5% dehydrated, but nothing severe. Her temperature was low, but she had little interest in heating pad. During the initial exam, she was again laying on her side. Not really concerned with the vet or aide.

She had multiple tests. Rabies, FVRCP, Fecal, Feline Leukemia, FELV, FIP, FIV, Phenobarb, general wellness and bloodwork. All were clear.

She had x-ray. It was clear, but there was an area that was unknown. It wasn't visible enough to be a big concern and was assumed to be mucus build up and will be monitored.

She's been given B vitamins, fluids and steroid shot (shot was two weeks ago - still has two left to go.)

She was kept at the vet overnight. She eat A/D prescription diet without difficulty. She had pooped Tuesday morning. She's since went normally.

Breathing is still shallow and labored. Sometimes with her mouth open and tip of tongue visible.

Vet allowed her to return home since there was nothing more they could do there that I couldn't at home. I have monitored her all afternoon and night. She's not really showing interest in food or water, but finally ate a few bites of the A/D after some pestering with water in a syringe trying to get her to drink fluids.

I'm feeling really helpless and hoping someone has experienced this....

Sorry this is so frustrating! What did he think about it being diabetes?

I asked that, but he didn't think it was. Just that her elevated glucose was from stress. The other vet agreed.
 

It's her breathing and sinuses that are the biggest concern. With her nasal drainage and some days blocked, it lowers her appetite and fluid intake. The breathing has her miserable.