Kittens, Raw and Clostridium - safety?

Gee, thanks you guys!  I am probably going to go down that path.  Thanks to the links Carolina - will do some reading ahead of vet appoint. on Wed.

If it works, wonderful - and without more harmful antibiotics!  Glad you have had success.

Seems i had already found some of those links, so good, I'm reading the 'right' stuff!

I ordered the Thorne brand S.boulardii that Holisticat mentions (you probably already know that she also recommends the Jarrow one you provided, Carolina...I got the one without MOS, just in case I decide to take it too!).  And I think I'll feed Kato some also - can only help general health right?

So there's 5 billion cfu in each tablet.  You think 1/2 a cap for an adult cat, 2x daily?  And 1/4 cap, 2xdaily for a kitten?

I will talk with my Vet on Wed anyway (and email ahead of time so we can have the discussion!)

tammyp said:

Seems i had already found some of those links, so good, I'm reading the 'right' stuff!

I ordered the Thorne brand S.boulardii that Holisticat mentions (you probably already know that she also recommends the Jarrow one you provided, Carolina...I got the one without MOS, just in case I decide to take it too!).  And I think I'll feed Kato some also - can only help general health right?

So there's 5 billion cfu in each tablet.  You think 1/2 a cap for an adult cat, 2x daily?  And 1/4 cap, 2xdaily for a kitten?

I will talk with my Vet on Wed anyway (and email ahead of time so we can have the discussion!)

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Yep, that's the dosage I am giving; 1/2 capsule 2 x daily; mine is also 5 billion. I would do 1/2 that for the kitten.
I hope it works as well for your crew as it did for mine :cross:

Just back from the Vet.  Yesterday was a bad vomiting day, and poos.  And Kato had a similar type of poo!  As they are cleaning each other's bums (they love each other!), it seems we are dealing with some type of bug: it may not be clostridium.p! And the vet doesn't think it is dietary (yay).

She ran all sorts of tests on the current sample I gave her and NOTHING showed up.  It doesn't mean there is nothing there...there are always false positives and false negatives.

The next course of action is: no more antibiotics (Ava and I are pleased.  Squirting syringes into mouths are not fun).  We are trying the S.Boulardii for a week - as soon as it arrives, and in the meantime, I will start the vet given probiotic.  Vet also suggested 1/4 capsule 2xdaily as a dose of the S.Boulardii.  If we have no joy, we will then start an anti-parasitic, and if Ava has some improvement, start Kato after a couple days.  If we still have no joy, we will send off another expensive PCR test (they are over $300!)...

We are a bit tired over here.  Ava doesn't have Kato's good manners when feeling sick - Kato gets onto the ground and barfs there.  Ava just vomits wherever she is.  Including sleeping between Dave's legs in the middle of the night 

I have been following this thread without posting, but have to put my 2.3 cents in here. In August, 2011, I had C. diff. and salmonella. The treatment (and symptoms) for humans is the same as cats, with the addition of Ciprofloxacin. If I never am that sick again, it will be too soon. So, I can sympathize with you and your cats.

I am so sorry Tammy
I meant to update yesterday, but I was travelling and so so busy.
Finally had a nice chat with their vet after getting the results for the PCR test. He told me what the other vet (who was on call when the results came in) had already told me: Clostridium perfringens. Also said because the results were positive, they retested to see if toxins were present and yes, it was.
Since they are all doing fine and no longer have diarrhea, he wants to continue with saccharomyces boulardii 2x a day (1/2 capsule) for a month, then re-test them. That's what I am going to do.
They have all been fine since I started S. Boulardii. None have diarrhea, haven't had even once.
Frankly, I don't know if I would treat for a week though.... The cat with clostridium in the study I saw was treated with the dosage I am giving for an entire month.... I don't know if a week would be time enough... :dk:
I hope it arrives there really quickly and it works for you immediately just like it worked for my crew

Thanks Carolina and Catspaw66,

I'm hoping that the week will show 'some' improvement...and that will be the go ahead to keep working on the probiotic treatment and allow it more time to do it's thing.  The test we had done on Ava's sample was directly for the clostridium p toxins.  I ordered another lot of the S.B probiotics...this time from Australia (the same one as you Carolina), as frustratingly, the other one seems to not be processing.  Should be here on Friday.  In the meantime, we have just wolfed down some canned laced with the vet probiotic!  And no vomiting since 6am fingers crossed.

So sorry to hear of your illness with similiar bugs Catspaw66.  Thankfully, Ava does seem to feel ok for good sections of the day judging by how much playing goes down in this home.  She even managed to INCREASE her weight over the week by 100g!

Oh, I see.... That's a better plan!
Here 1/2 capsule a day did the trick in one dose! Bugsy had solid poop the very next morning (from Pee-water-like diarrhea before taking it), Mac had cow's pie poop, and hope and Lucky took a while to poop but when they did it was perfectly formed, solid "beautiful" raw poops!
I hope it works as well for you right off the bat!
Hope was so so sick! She had VIOLENT liquid diarrhea, gas, and was feeling so bad her appetite was gone, so I had her on appetite stimulant. They are all happy and healthy now :cross: yours will have the same results :cross:

Oh hun, I'm so sorry. It's so much "easier" with at least a diagnosis. I hope the probotics help, while they battle (and quickly overcome!) whatever this is!

Fingers crossed!  The probiotic arrived...first dose tonight!

Crossing fingers, toes ,eyelashes :cross: :cross: :cross:

Checking in - how are they today?

Carolina said:

Crossing fingers, toes ,eyelashes :cross: :cross: :cross:

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Carolina said:

Checking in - how are they today?

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Me too!

Oh - and Carolina, it's not eyelashes - it's crossing fingers, toes, arms, legs, and EYES.
.

LDG said:

Oh - and Carolina, it's not eyelashes - it's crossing fingers, toes, arms, legs, and EYES.
.

Smiley-Crazy.gif

• ldg
• Jun 6, 2013

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but then, but then, but then....... I fall!

I stole your smiley, I stole your smiley.   How are the kitties, Carolina and tammyp? I hope they are doing better.

catspaw66 said:

I stole your smiley, I stole your smiley. :geek:   How are the kitties, Carolina and tammyp? I hope they are doing better.

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Hi Catspaw66! My kitties are doing great! Like I said on the previous post, my vet wants me to treat them with S. boulardii for at least a month then re-test them. No one has diarrhea anymore, they are all eating, playing and raising heck around the house- happy, healthy kitties

I am also waiting for tammyp :wait:

Ah HELLO!  It's today here now! (Well, midday of today anyway - I've been cat caring and baking).  Thanks for the cheer crew waiting for news 

We have had approx 2 doses of the SB.  Kato is too smart for it mixed into his favourite cat food, so he didn't eat much of it.  Ava ate most of hers though...and some of his (as they do), so I think she got 2 good doses.

l

Unfortunately, not a one dose miracle over here.  Ava is still diahorrea mixed with formed stool, quite frequently (and gee, the stink...you'd think we'd get aclimatised, but after husband holding his nose for half and hour, I promised I'd make some nice smells to compensate - hence the baking).  Kato had a clear vomit early this morning.  We are still playing lots.

I will come up with some sneaky way to get the stuff into Kato.  I don't think your meat pocket trick will work Carolina, he's just so clever - I'll try it nonetheless though.  My next idea will be to mix it in really good with a tiny bit of butter so it is a paste.  Then I'll smear it into the side tooth gap of his mouth - just like I was giving his paste meds the last 2 weeks.  Hopefully it will work!  He does like butter.

Still hoping for improvement with further doses...

Tammy, how much are you giving to Ava and Kato? I know Kato is a kitten, if he is a young kitten, then yes, 1/4 capsule will do it..... But if he is an older kitten..... I would do both 1/2 capsule 2x a day.
(say 10-11 months?)
I tried this stuff, and there is a reason why they hate it - it tastes BAD. It is an yeast. And it tastes like so - like ferment. Kind of like bitter beer.

The meat pockets work for all my cats, but I get pretty crafty with it, and I make them veeeeeeery carefully!
I made sure to cut the meat in thick filets this time so I can cut them into butterfly cuts with the scissors. Then I carefully spread the 1/2 capsule for each cat into the meat and caaaareeefully close the pieces. Cut them up even more carefully so not a dust falls off and then supplement on the top of it. In the beginning it was taking some work for them to eat too, so sometimes the first piece would need to be hand fed or I would need to use toppings for a piece or two.... Now they are eating everything without an issue. The key is for them to no matter what, eat it all.
Remember that although a probiotic, if that is clostridium, it works as medicine...... But they have to eat it.

If you have to empty 1/2 capsule and pill them...... then that's what I would do worst case scenario.

Ha ha, I just tried the 'paste' solution - both cats were able to spit it out/flick it off, and step in it!  I used some cat food gravy, but i was surprised at just how much powder is in 1/4 capsule - there is an awful lot of powder!  

Then I tried in tuna; Ava ate hers, Kato isn't.

I tried eating some of the powder; it just tasted chalky to me (which was quite unpleasant and maybe I cleared it from my tongue tip rather too quickly to get the bitter taste).

Ava is only about 4 months.  So I'm doing 1/4 capsule 2x daily.  Kato is 2.5yrs and he is 'getting' (not so much) 1/2 at 2xdaily.  I'm pretty sure Ava is ingesting her doses though...even if some of it comes from Kato's plate.

I am thinking of making a solution and syringing it into them...