Wormers for kittens...and other questions

The three kittens will be three weeks old on Monday (1st April) and when I took Mum down when she was pregnant the vet said I am to give the kittens Panacur and I am 99 percent sure he said at three weeks, (Could have said four) yet I am told by others not until 6 weeks.

What I am really wanting to know is when should I give them the wormer and is Panacur good as I was told this product has it's ups and downs. We only have one pet store in my town (Pets at home) and I don't think they stock Panacur, only Bob Martin and another product Beahar I think. Also the vet said the wormer is a syrup so I presume this is given via syringe? If so, please could someone give me the step by steps on how to give it to the babies...Do they sell syringes at Pets at home or do they usually come with the kitten wormer? I presume instructions would be given? Not sure....arrghhhhh.

I wormed Mum back in December and this was Bob Martin before I found out never to use it so I now need to know what product should I use on Mum? I could ring my Vet for these details but have decided after not receiving the help I felt I needed from them that I will be switching vets when Fidget is to go down to be spayed/chipped, etc when the babies are eight weeks.

Saving me from doing another thread also, when is it suitable for kittens to leave Mum. I am keeping one and have family friends who I trust and have the income to care and look after these kittens. The vet as well as CP told me eight weeks yet some breeders I spoke to said it is safer to keep them until twelve weeks which is fine with me but which advice should I take?

Being told one thing and then something entirely different by both sets of parties who have experience and knowledge with Cats and kittens leaves my head spinning in confusion.

I just need as much as advice in looking after these kittens and would appreciate all answers I am given.

I am told weaning is at 5 weeks but may be longer until Mum says enough is enough with the milk. I am told to feed Mum kitten food as this is how she encourages the babies to eat by sharing her meals to start off with. Is this correct? Also, if babies don't start weaning after five weeks should I be concerned? Or leave mum to handle the situation or should I step in by coaxing the kittens to eat Fidget's food?

When will the kittens be little terrors and start running around everywhere? I guess it will depend on each kit and some are slowly walking now and wanting to explore but would be great to get an estimate so I know I can prepare ready. I was told by one breeder to get a pen for them as this is safer for them to begin with but I have looked at pens on ebay and I cannot afford one hundred pounds for a pen. My boyfriend was going to make me something but if I could get something cheaper for them and already made (Not that I don't trust my OH. He's great with things like that)  it would even be better.

Thank you in advance for your replies.

Mum should have Drontal or Milbemax as they deal with both roundworms and tapeworms.  You can buy Drontal at P@H or online, Milbemax has to come from the vet but is much smaller and easier to give than Drontal.

Liquid Panacur is usual for kittens in the UK and the bottle I brought comes with a syringe.  If not you can get them online and (usually) at the chemists.  You can buy it online without a prescription, the 10% suspension is fine for kittens but you must weigh them first to calculate the right dose.  From a UK website selling it:

Panacur contains Fenbendazole and is suitable for both cats and dogs, including unweaned puppies and kittens from two weeks of age.  Repeat worming at 5, 8 and 12 weeks of age

Recommended dose for animals up to 12 weeks of ages is HALF the adult dose for their weight but repeated daily for 3 days and given every three weeks

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Though at 12 weeks they can have a Kitten milbemax.

With Pancur they need it administering on 3 consecutive days each time.  Be warned, it's messy!  Obviously it will be a larger dose when they are older.  All you do is weigh the kittens, work out the dose (to the nearest 1/2 ml) shake the bottle well, draw it up and squirt.  I had to hold them by the scruff and slip the nozzle of the syringe into the side of their mouths. 

I think they should have their first doses ASAP.

Almost everyone who breeds pedigree cats in the UK keeps kittens until 13 weeks and fully vaccinated.  Some kittens are not ready to leave at 8 weeks - they are backward physically, mentally or both.  At 13 weeks old they are far more able to cope with the stress of a new home.  Rescues move them on earlier as they need the space.

They will wean themselves, just make sure plenty of food is going down and it's in shallow dishes they can explore.  I gave my last foster litter raw mince sometimes, or cooked white fish - the cheapest frozen fillets from the supermarket.

Yelloweyedcat said:

 I am told to feed Mum kitten food as this is how she encourages the babies to eat by sharing her meals to start off with. Is this correct? Also, if babies don't start weaning after five weeks should I be concerned? Or leave mum to handle the situation or should I step in by coaxing the kittens to eat

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It happens it is correct, but it is simplyfying the things.  The main cause moms shall have kittens food is because they need the good nourishment, producing kittens and then the milk.

But as it happens, it is also the easiest way to learn kittens eat real food.

You CAN of course give yourself some, like mentioned mince meat. Especielly if you notice they are late. Or if you by any reason want them to wean off earlier. Mom perhaps not managing to give them enough with milk, so to give her relief.

When they begin to eat, make sure they can eat different food, dry, wet, perhaps even a little raw. So they shall not be picky with their new owners.

We see 8 weeks as the minimum where they can leave, but 12 weeks  as the we wish.  10 weeks may be a compromise, which is used by some clubs.

Of the two mentioned brands in your pet shops, I would guess Bearphar(?) it this somewhat better.

Best are the big brands, often made by concerns who also produce human medicines. They simply dont affort to get bad reputation so they are thorough with research before they  sell on the market.

Good luck!

StefanZ said:

It happens it is correct, but it is simplyfying the things.  The main cause moms shall have kittens food is because they need the good nourishment, producing kittens and then the milk.

But as it happens, it is also the easiest way to learn kittens eat real food.

You CAN of course give yourself some, like mentioned mince meat. Especielly if you notice they are late. Or if you by any reason want them to wean off earlier. Mom perhaps not managing to give them enough with milk, so to give her relief.

When they begin to eat, make sure they can eat different food, dry, wet, perhaps even a little raw. So they shall not be picky with their new owners.

We see 8 weeks as the minimum where they can leave, but 12 weeks  as the we wish.  10 weeks may be a compromise, which is used by some clubs.

Of the two mentioned brands in your pet shops, I would guess Bearphar(?) it this somewhat better.

Best are the big brands, often made by concerns who also produce human medicines. They simply dont affort to get bad reputation so they are thorough with research before they  sell on the market.

Good luck!

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Okay, so at around five weeks (kittens) switch Fidget from adult food to kitten food then or should I start doing it now? I was told at first to mix kitten food and adult food together straight away with Fidget when kits were born but told it was not strongly needed at the time and not a worry so I have stuck her to just adult wet food at the moment. 

Mince meat? As in Mince mince? Do you mean raw from the package? Thought that gives Cats worms and you have to cook it first and then let it cool? Gosh, I sound a numpty but I just honestly do not understand these certain foods and how they are prepared for Cats. I just feed crappy tin stuff.

Well, I've just created a raw thread as I want to make some for the girls this weekend so if they love it I will most certainly give the kittens some. But what kitten food should I be giving mum for when she shares her food? What would you recommend? And I thought biscuits shouldn't really be given regardless if it's small doses or not as it dehydrates Cats.

Well, that's all they have is that and Bob Martin and Bob Martin I am not using anymore and I don't even know if this Beahar is good hence why I wanted an opinion on here. I don't think they stock Panacur or they have run out of stock as haven't seen it.

Thanks for the reply.

OrientalSlave said:

Mum should have Drontal or Milbemax as they deal with both roundworms and tapeworms.  You can buy Drontal at P@H or online, Milbemax has to come from the vet but is much smaller and easier to give than Drontal.

Liquid Panacur is usual for kittens in the UK and the bottle I brought comes with a syringe.  If not you can get them online and (usually) at the chemists.  You can buy it online without a prescription, the 10% suspension is fine for kittens but you must weigh them first to calculate the right dose.  From a UK website selling it:

Though at 12 weeks they can have a Kitten milbemax.

With Pancur they need it administering on 3 consecutive days each time.  Be warned, it's messy!  Obviously it will be a larger dose when they are older.  All you do is weigh the kittens, work out the dose (to the nearest 1/2 ml) shake the bottle well, draw it up and squirt.  I had to hold them by the scruff and slip the nozzle of the syringe into the side of their mouths. 

I think they should have their first doses ASAP.

Almost everyone who breeds pedigree cats in the UK keeps kittens until 13 weeks and fully vaccinated.  Some kittens are not ready to leave at 8 weeks - they are backward physically, mentally or both.  At 13 weeks old they are far more able to cope with the stress of a new home.  Rescues move them on earlier as they need the space.

They will wean themselves, just make sure plenty of food is going down and it's in shallow dishes they can explore.  I gave my last foster litter raw mince sometimes, or cooked white fish - the cheapest frozen fillets from the supermarket.

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Great, will pick up some Drontal from Pets at home tomorrow. Is it too early to put some on mum yet? I know it's every six months but not that far off the mark.

Well, I'll check out Pets at home again and see if they have it but they didn't last time. If a syringe doesn't come with it, I'll nip to the chemist and buy one.

Will keep kittens for twelve weeks then to be sure.

I'll be sure to print out the advice you've given so I can follow it when giving it to the kittens.

Thank you.

Yelloweyedcat said:

Okay, so at around five weeks (kittens) switch Fidget from adult food to kitten food then or should I start doing it now? I was told at first to mix kitten food and adult food together straight away with Fidget when kits were born but told it was not strongly needed at the time and not a worry so I have stuck her to just adult wet food at the moment. 

Mince meat? As in Mince mince? Do you mean raw from the package? Thought that gives Cats worms and you have to cook it first and then let it cool? Gosh, I sound a numpty but I just honestly do not understand these certain foods and how they are prepared for Cats. I just feed crappy tin stuff.

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At first I jumped, as the standard advice is to have moms on kitten food from they are well into pregnancy, high preg as latest.  But I see you have her on wet, which is OK.  As wet is typically more nutrious than standard dry...

I guess most thinks automatically in the dry categories, when all the stages are very neatly organized.

Here you want them to be on typically kitten food, if is is dry or wet... 

High quality wet should be OK as kitten food, even if it is not labeled so.  If the animal proteine (and fat) inhald is high enough, there is taurine enough too. you dont need to add extra. So do I think!

Be prepared they can try some at the end of week 3, and begin in week 4....So swich slowly a little before that, so the mom has time to be used to the new combinations.

Yes, mince meat is supposed to be raw. Meat which is done into small small pieces so to speak...

In Sweden it is safe to use, we dont have problems with it as long it is fresh. The minced meat holds only just about 24 hours after being minced.  You should use cow meat!

Pig meat is in practice OK in Sweden too, as we have excellent veterinian controll in the slaughterhouses. But I had read, abroad in many countries raw pig meat isnt safe, not only the trikine muscle worms, but also some sort of virus?, the  Auyesky(?) sickedness...  Which is even more dangerous for cats than humans. So, if unsure, cook thoroughly pig meat...

If you have problems with mince meat it in your country, you can try and freeze it...  Or use the micro or process in some other way.... Not so nourishing for kittens as when raw, but surely still OK.

Good luck!

Put Fidget onto a good-quality diet now and keep her on it until she stops feeding them.  BTW you might like to enquire about Nutrition over in the Nutrition forum - but prepare yourself for a shock!

Mum can have a Drontal now - it's safe for pregnant and lactating queens - good luck to you getting it down, it's a large pill.  I'm a wuss, would take her to the vets for Drontal and get them to give it to her.  Last time mine got Drontal several got spat out and the vet got bitten - it took a vet nurse to administer it.  They didn't charge me for the spat-out ones, the vet wasn't badly bitten and that was the last time before Milbemax came along.

Personally I would weigh her and try to coax the vet into giving me the right size Milbemax for her on the grounds that taking her with her kittens is going to be very stressful.

She should be wormed now and in 3 months, and if you keep her in from now on every year is probably OK after that.  Otherwise, every 3 months.

My cats like raw beef and raw turkey mince, pork mince is probably OK as well as modern pig farming is right on top of worm control.  However it's not a complete food, so don't feed it too often.  Ditto cooked white fish.  Two of mine also love a raw chicken wing.  It's great for their teeth but very messy as one of them often has to kill her wing which involves throwing it all over the place.  The bones in raw chicken are fine, but NEVER give a cat any cooked bones as they are relatively brittle and form sharp splinters.

OrientalSlave said:

Put Fidget onto a good-quality diet now and keep her on it until she stops feeding them.  BTW you might like to enquire about Nutrition over in the Nutrition forum - but prepare yourself for a shock!

Mum can have a Drontal now - it's safe for pregnant and lactating queens - good luck to you getting it down, it's a large pill.  I'm a wuss, would take her to the vets for Drontal and get them to give it to her.  Last time mine got Drontal several got spat out and the vet got bitten - it took a vet nurse to administer it.  They didn't charge me for the spat-out ones, the vet wasn't badly bitten and that was the last time before Milbemax came along.

Personally I would weigh her and try to coax the vet into giving me the right size Milbemax for her on the grounds that taking her with her kittens is going to be very stressful.

She should be wormed now and in 3 months, and if you keep her in from now on every year is probably OK after that.  Otherwise, every 3 months.

My cats like raw beef and raw turkey mince, pork mince is probably OK as well as modern pig farming is right on top of worm control.  However it's not a complete food, so don't feed it too often.  Ditto cooked white fish.  Two of mine also love a raw chicken wing.  It's great for their teeth but very messy as one of them often has to kill her wing which involves throwing it all over the place.  The bones in raw chicken are fine, but NEVER give a cat any cooked bones as they are relatively brittle and form sharp splinters.

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I am planning to get her on a good diet and have actually enquired about this in the nutrition thread in regards to raw feeding. As this is what I am interested in.

Fidget had to take pills back when she was pregnant and they were fairly big. She's quite a good girl taking them so I am fine with doing this myself. If needs be and it has to be done, I will take her to the vet for them to do it but I'm not going to waste money to pay them to do it if I can myself.

I'll stick with the Drontal for now as I don't think it is fair moving mum and kittens and creating stress just for the vet to give her a wormer tablet. If she or the kittens got poorly then I would in a heartbeat but I'm not going to for that, well, unless I am have difficulty myself, lol. Then I know it's important to get her down there and get them to give it her.

Every three months? I was told once every six months. This is all too frustrating and confusing with so many different answers given, even from my vet compared to what others say. I don't know what I should listen to.

Once she is spayed I am letting Fidget back out as she is one of those cats who does not like being stuck indoors. Tibbs is the one who prefers staying inside and will firmly plant paws and claws on the windowsill if I try to shove her out for a bit of fresh air.

Can cats really bite through bone? I didn't think they'd be interested in something like that. When I have chicken for a dinner and I give the Cats samples I always threw the bones away before giving them a thigh or wing, etc. I presume it's good for the teeth? I know it's good for dogs but didn't think cats teeth would be that strong.

Thanks again OS.

If your vet will sell you a Milbemax they really are much easier to give than Drontal, and since it sounds like they have seen her hopefully that will be OK.  Mine would be OK even I think with Lola as although she is still growing she is clearly over 2kg and under 4kg, and the two boys are both over 4kg and under 8kg.

BTW the definitive information for any medication (human or animal) is the maker's data sheet, and most of those are on the Internet now.  The other fabulous source is the FAB's web site, www.fabcats.org.

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Bayer_plc/Drontal_Cat_Tablets/-23587.html

http://www.ah.novartis.com/products/en/milbemax_cat.shtml

http://www.fabcats.org/owners/worming/info.html

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When to worm your cat  [/font][/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]As roundworms are very prevalent in kittens it is important to worm them very frequently when they are young. The recommendations are to treat every two weeks from about six weeks of age to 16 weeks of age, with a drug active against roundworms.[/font][/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]  [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Tapeworms are only usually a problem in older cats, so adult cats need to be treated with a drug active against both roundworms and tapeworms. The precise frequency of treatment recommended will vary slightly depending on for example whether the cat hunts and whether or not it is treated regularly for fleas (fleas can become infected when taking blood from the cat). Treatment is recommended every 2-3 months in adult cats, with a drug active against roundworms and tapeworms, possibly extending to 6 months for an outdoor indoor cat.[/font][/font]

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[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Unfortunately there is a typo on the FAB's website - you can see I've fixed it.[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]  [/font]

You also need good flea control if you are letting Fidget out - where there are fleas there are usually worms.

Bones from your supper must NOT be given to pets as they have been cooked, but believe me, my cats leave very little of a chicken wing - just some of the biggest bone, and that is splintered.  Messy.  Very messy!  You could snip off the wingtip before you do the cooking and see if they like it.  If they do it keeps their teeth wonderfully clean and greatly reduces the likelihood of having to get them a dental in the future.  My two girls like them, the two boys don't.

OrientalSlave said:

If your vet will sell you a Milbemax they really are much easier to give than Drontal, and since it sounds like they have seen her hopefully that will be OK.  Mine would be OK even I think with Lola as although she is still growing she is clearly over 2kg and under 4kg, and the two boys are both over 4kg and under 8kg.

BTW the definitive information for any medication (human or animal) is the maker's data sheet, and most of those are on the Internet now.  The other fabulous source is the FAB's web site, www.fabcats.org.

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Bayer_plc/Drontal_Cat_Tablets/-23587.html

http://www.ah.novartis.com/products/en/milbemax_cat.shtml

http://www.fabcats.org/owners/worming/info.html

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Unfortunately there is a typo on the FAB's website - you can see I've fixed it.[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]  [/font]

You also need good flea control if you are letting Fidget out - where there are fleas there are usually worms.

Bones from your supper must NOT be given to pets as they have been cooked, but believe me, my cats leave very little of a chicken wing - just some of the biggest bone, and that is splintered.  Messy.  Very messy!  You could snip off the wingtip before you do the cooking and see if they like it.  If they do it keeps their teeth wonderfully clean and greatly reduces the likelihood of having to get them a dental in the future.  My two girls like them, the two boys don't.

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I'm getting the wormer today for mum and babies as well as getting some flea treatment. When I took her down the vets they gave me frontline comb and it has done nothing, despite putting it on her exactly as instructed. I am tearing my hair out as I have tried everything. Collars, drops, sprays and they are not buggering off. This is not good as if mum still has fleas then babies will have them. What do you recommend? I can't stand these revolting critters in my flat.

Well, Fidget is strictly on house arrest at the moment and will be until she has been spayed which, obviously, cannot be done yet due to the age of the kits.

Also, Fidget seems to be in discomfort nursing as kittens teeth have come through so I presume they're nibbling whilst suckling and this is becoming sore for mum. I've checked her nipples and they're not sore, red, or inflamed, etc, but do you know if there is anything I can do to help her? I don't want it becoming to the point it's that painful she will refuse to feed them. Vet said sore nipples is normal but still.

Thanks for the advice btw.

Forgot to mention, just in case some may suggest it, the sore nipples are not Mastitis. Kittens are biting at Mum's nipples. I was told to try and introduce solids now but they're not even three weeks (This Monday) and I don't think they are quite ready yet, despite growing very fast. Just don't like seeing mum in pain. She yelps when they suckle and moves away. She doesn't let them feed for no longer than five minutes. 

Sounds like you need to treat the house as well, look on the FAB website for some good info. Using the phone, no idea how to copy & paste.

Thank you.

This is the page:

http://www.fabcats.org/owners/fleas/info.html

And where there are fleas there are oftenj worms...

Milbemax for Fidget (from your vet) and Panacur for the kittens.