SubQ fluids for Weena the Houdini Cat

bartzfamilycat

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Hi All, Please forgive the addition of yet another SubQ fluids line of questions. Please forgive the long email, but I want to lay out all that we've done for efficiency's sake.

Our cat is named Weena. She weighs a little over 6 lbs and is about 11 years old (rescued). She's been diagnosed with CRF and needs 200 ml of subQ fluids (lactated ringers) once a week. Weena has been in our family for 8 years. She's a demonstrative snuggler. Recently, we've discovered that she's  also a direct descendant of Houdini. 

It was good to read about Aussie and and to hear all of  your comments and suggestions for how to administer subQfluids to an "aggressive" cat. Weena is not aggressive. She's never bitten or scratched us. Recently however, she is a spring-loaded contortionist.The first time she got fluids was at the vet. I learned to tent her skin at the scruff of her neck and to be sure the needle was not between skin layers (painful). Weena is terrified at the vet and is fairly docile compared her persona at home. For two weeks we gave her fluids at home, fairly successfully (with brushing, which she loves, and calm talking). The third time we tried to give her fluids, she rebelled. I took her back to the vet and learned the towel wrap restraint method. It worked well - for the vet tech.

Our problem is that Weena struggles - acrobatically - when we try to give her fluids. We clip her claws, warm the fluids (tested against the inside of my wrist until slightly warmer than my skin), hand the bag from a cabinet handle about 24 inches above the counter surface where we have a anti-slip rug and soft towel, wrap her (in her towel) and tuck her into the crook of our elbow. We have two sets of hands at our disposal (though she still out manuevers us!) It's bad enough that she yowls as if we're killing her well before we have even removed the cover on the needle (!), but it's her kicking, bucking, jerking and squirming that allow her to wrestle free of all of our towel wraps and make it nearly impossible to get the needle (size 18) into her. If we are lucky enough to get the needle into her scruff, she almost always dislodges it with a very effective backwards head jerk that she's developed in the last two sessions.   

We've given her fluids at home 6 times, and twice (first and second-to-last) at the vet. When does she learn that this is worth her while??? I am considering a "cat sack" but wonder if she'll just turn circles within it (is it like a straight-jacket or just a bag?). I'm wondering if there is a way to vet-wrap her front legs together and her back legs together (with padding between?), but this seems horrible and will certainly freak her out more and isn't likely to control the head jerking needle-dislodging trick. Our vet says Weena is in the early stages of CRF, so subQ fluids will be a long term process, likely to get more frequent. We don't know what to do. We don't want to take  her to the vet every week for her fluids.

Help!
 

AbbysMom

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bartzfamilycat

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Hi AbbysMom,

Thanks for posting me the thread. I hadn't seen it. However, the most detail I could find there about SubQs involved cat who "jumped up onto the counter for her fluids". I don't think Weena will ever do that. Our main issue is restraining her in a way that allows access to her scruff and somehow minimzes her backward-head jerking trick.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Someone will write me, i'm sure...
 

feralvr

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I think you will either have to get the cat sack or snuggle towel wrap her in a large bath towel. I have done that even with semi-feral cats who need medications. Are you sure you are getting the needle in properly? Is the size of the needle small/correct? Giving the correct amount of fluids? I am sure it is but just wanted to check. If you accidentally went into her muscle even the tiniest bit it would cause her pain and could be why she is resisting now. :dk: Must be just under the skin. You probably already know this. :hugs: What are some very, very, very special treats that Weena just loves? I have special treats and only give them when one of my cats needs medicine, fluids, etc. Believe me, they learn to give in and accept the procedure if they know that treat is coming. You can also practice wrap her without giving fluids. Get her used to the wrapping by treating her. Hopefully she is a snuggler and loves attention because that will be in your favor here. I know it is so hard to have to "manhandle" them but it must be done. Talk soothingly to her, stay very calm. tell her what you are needing to do, tell her this is what she needs to get used too. I know this is hard, for sure. I dread the day if/when a couple of mine will need fluids as they age. Some cats are just going to give you a battle each and every time. You could also consider giving her something to relax her in the initial stages of this procedure - the fluids. Ask the vet. If she learns that it will not hurt her, she will learn to relax and accept that this is part of her life right now. I hope this helps some. :hugs: :vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes:
 
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sugarcatmom

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I'm wondering if she really needs the fluids at all. If she's in the early stages, they may not actually be necessary yet (depending on her diet). I've had a CKD kitty for 3 years now, stage 3, and he only recently started regular fluid therapy (100ml every second day) to help deal with constipation. What does Weena eat? If dry food, switching to wet and adding extra water to it might be all the extra moisture she needs for now.
 
 

mrsgreenjeens

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It's been a year since we lost our Sven to CRF, but we used size 19G Terumo needles (I'm looking at the box right now).  They are extremely thin so go in very easily, but allow for the fluids to flow very well, so we could get 200 ml into him in 5 minutes or less.  I think the needles are half the battle.  Plus, you can actually go in from the front into the scruff (you facing Weena) rather than from the back...I was totally shocked once when our Vet did that...it just seemed so weird
.    And you don't always have to do it right there between the shoulder blades.  You can actually do it anywhere you find lose skin...especially if you may be doing this for years.  

Now, as Lauren mentioned, if there is some food that Weena finds absolutely irresistible, feed it to her WHILE you're giving her the fluids.  then she won't even notice she's getting poked and filled up
.

As to the cata bags, she would not be able to move around in them.  They are kind of like a strait jacket


Here is a thread showing Carolina pilling her cat Bugsy using a cat bag:   http://www.thecatsite.com/t/242917/pilling-bugsy
 
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bartzfamilycat

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[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]Thanks Feralvr. I appreciate your willingness to go into the details - even at the risk of offending me because (heaven forbid) I know them all; you could cover something I've missed, or present them in a new light. We are so desperate... I'd like to think I've left my pride behind here...[/color]


[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]Though I think we've got the needle in under her skin (not into the muscle or between skin layers) Weena's jerking movements might result in deeper pokes. Wrapping her is really difficult - as soon as we get her up onto the counter (or the bed, or the bathroom floor) and she realizes what's coming (takes about 3 seconds), she goes all straight-legged, so wrapping her tighly enough that she isn't pinwheeling her legs is tough. If we could get her crouched and keep her that way long enough to wrap her, we'd be doing well. [/color]

Then, once she's wrapped we have to undo the wrapping at her shoulders in order to find loose skin. That almost always leads to her pushing her front legs straight or getting a front leg out, and then we've lost.

We took her back to the vet today so my husband and I could run through our methods with them to be sure we've got them right. Of course, Weena was petrified and it went very smoothly. But we hashed out some plans that employ distraction techniques including 1) wrap her as much as possible, then scruff and gently shake her; 2a) put her in her carrier, 2b) take her into our garage (where she seldom goes), 2c) take just the top off the carrier and/or wrapping her in the garage; 3) putting an Elizabethan collar on her to cut off her peripheral vision; 4) put her in the carrier and walk her to an amenable neighbor's house and utilize #1 above.

Thanks too for the suggestion of a smaller needle. We're using 18 gauge now. A 19 gauge, as suggested below, might be a good thing to try.

We will certainly try a treat. Weena starved as a kitten/juvenile and loves to eat. Though she's on a special (kd protein reduction) wet food since early February, we might stray from the diet once a week without too much effect to her blood chem...

I was especially glad to have your suggestion that we wrap Ween just to get her used to the feeling and develop her ability to remain calm when wrapped.

Thank you!

~Shirley 
 

kittykat718

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Our Dora is a contortionist as well. One subQ session ended with her head hanging off the bed twisted  while I was practically on top of her. My husband started laughing hysterically and in turn made me laugh which made it all the much harder. It also made me feel horrible considering how stressed out she was and I was there laughing at the situation. The last few times I tried it on the floor with her facing away from me and me straddling her. Have you tried that?
 
 
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