Cat poop, why is this happening?

My kitty is IBD, and I posted on here on Sunday night about giving her an appetite stimulant.

Since the appetite stimulant (1/8 mirzatapine), she has had "off" poops. First night, a runny mess. Second night, a *bit* firmer, but still soft. This morning at 4:00 am, soft but formed, but soft at the end of the movement. Today again at 6:30 (strange she went again so soon, for her) formed, firmer, but still soft at the end. I've had to clean her bum off since this started happening, as she has some stuck there. And where she sits she left a spot on the floor. 

Can the appetite stimulant cause the soft poop? I have started upping her doseage of Forti-flora (don't worry, I have an email sent to my vet about getting her on a better probiotic and an enzyme) to try and give her the full packet per day. So I'm not sure if this is the stimulant, the forti-flora upped doseage, or the start of a flare (i hope not!)

Feedback would be great. She is still on her I/D dry and wet (vet said just get her eating something, and we are working on a better diet for her)

Thanks.

Jen, the only thing I can find about Mirtazapine having side effects in cats are the same ones I told you about, like the seratonin syndrome. I suspect its the fortiflora and I'd suggest stopping it at this point as it contains animal digest. I still think you should ask about cyrpoheptadine instead of Mirtazapine.

I didn't know how much the animal digest made a difference at the moment since her dry food is coated in it. I sent a massive email to my vet today with questions regarding foods, enzymes, and probiotics and poop! Waiting to hear back

I did ask my vet about the other appetite stimulant (before getting her the mirtz) and they said they don't use it as much because it's "old-school" medicine? And mirtz is newer. I don't know, it wasn't my regular vet, but one of the partners. She was awesome, but I had no idea about medicine, so I took her at her word.

I'd like to get Miss started on something better than fortiflora asap, but we don't have much available here in Canada, and I will have to wait at least 10 days before shipping. I I *did* find prozyme plus at our local pet store, but I can't see where there is a probiotic in there, I just see enzymes?

I am interested in the Mercola probiotic, as it has so many different strains.

My thought is that I want to get her on the probiotics / enzymes first to try and stabilize her, then do a slow food switch to grain-free dry along with grain free canned, with the goal of moving to all canned. She eats more wet food when it is warmed up, so I don't know if that is a detractor from the probiotics, as it might harm the bacteria.

I am so nervous to switch her to grain free dry, as I had so many issues when she was on evo, then go and then the turkey and duck. It was months of stop and start with these foods, then it went to her worst flare. I'm literally scared to make too many moves at once with. It's why I keep thinking stabilize with the probiotics / enzymes, then slowly switch. 

Lisa's site (finnlacy) is http://www.ibdkitties.net. If you're not already familiar with the site, it is dedicated to everything IBD. :nod:

The Fortiflora can really work - or it can make things worse. FYI, it does not have live cultures in it, only fermentation product (dead), and it's only something like 4 billion CFU - and not live CFU. For some kitties, it works great. For others, it can make things worse. For our Chumley, even though he was eating dry that was probably sprayed with animal digest, the Fortiflora made his horrible diarrhea go from horrible to explosive. So I have to agree - the problem here is likely the wrong probiotic for your baby.

And trust your instincts! Yes, with IBD kitties you want to make slow moves!

Now - as to the food. Just bear in mind the problem was most likely NOT the lack of grain. In fact, for IBD kitties, no grain is almost a "must" for long term health. (Well, that's true for any kitty, actually. But especially IBD kitties). Was it EVO dry or wet? Personally, I wouldn't feed an IBD kitty dry food - it's SO highly processed, even more than the wet foods. The less processing, the fewer ingredients, and the fewer additives the better. But it could have been (and was likely) something else in the food. :dk:

I don't know your budget or your feelings about raw, but there are commercial options in Canada, and many IBD kitties do really well on raw - often not needing anything more than that. It's no guaranteed cure-all, but many people that have had sick kitties with diarrhea or vomiting for months and months find that that a switch to raw resolves - or mostly resolves - the problem. Just a thought.

That's ridiculous! Cypro is still used all the time!!! Anyway, it's up to you but I prefer that one. Anyway, Prozyme Plus is a probiotic and digestive enzyme. Mercola is a very good product though so you could definitely try that one. 

Yes, mirtazipine is newer, and many vets prefer it because it only needs to be given every three days - as opposed to cypro, which I think need to be given every 12 hours. It just depends on the kitty. Some kitties do not do well with mirtazipine, and it makes them quite loopy. But there's nothing wrong with cypro.

I think that's why she recommended it, the three day thing. I don't really like the way Miss acts on it for the first 12 hours. Too hyper and meowy. Does the other app stim give the same side effects? At least I wouldn't have to worry about serotonin syndrome. I would be totally happy to try the other one if needed. My regular vet is very nice. I talked them out of metacam for a pain reliever, though here in Canada I don't believe the doseage is as high as it is in the States. They were totally fine with that and respected my wishes.

I wouldn't be against raw, but I have read that the bones in Raw food can cause trouble for some IBD kitties? Again, I dont' know much about raw. I'd be happy to get her excited about eating canned.

I am most like going to try the prozyme plus, as it's available here and I won't have to pay outrageous shipping charges to get it to Canada, and I won't have to wait, which is important to me. The sooner she starts this stuff, the better.

I'm not familiar with probiotics. The ingredients for prozyme plus are: 

Rice starch, Aspergillus oryzae (alpha-amylase) fermentation product dehydrated, Aspergillus niger (lipase and cellulase) fermentation product dehydrated and Bromelain derived from ananas comosus (protease) dehydrated.

Which ingredient is the probiotic?  The bromelain?

Thanks for answering my questions, ladies. You guys are very patient for this nervous kitty mum!! I appreciate it.

No, I had told you that Cypro does not make the kitty all nervous and hyper like that. It most likely will make her a little tired, that's why you cut it into quarters. No, Bromelain is not a probiotic. It's the other ingredients except for the rice starch. Yes, bones can sometimes bother IBD kitties but the brand that usually has the most bone content is Nature's Variety so I just wouldn't use that one if you decide to do premade raw. I'd go with Stella & Chewy's if you have it there. 

Sorry Finn, I didn't remember that you said that about the cypro.

That's okay, today I went out to shovel the 10 inches of snow in my driveway and somewhere along the line took off my hat. I couldn't find it for about 3 hours and it turned out I took it off inside the house and hung it up! I can't remember squat! 

Jen, you might want to check out this thread. It's another IBD kitty in Canada: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/249931/new-to-raw-feeding-and-have-questions

Cypro is an antihistamine with the side effect in kitties of increasing the appetite. Cypro, like most antihistamines, makes them sleepy.

Mirtazipine is an anti-depressant with the side effect in kitties of increasing the appetite. Mirtazipine can make them seem needy and anxious.

Glad I'm not the only one who can't remember anything!

LDG, thanks for the link to the ibd kitties raw thread. I'm going to get my hubby to take me to global pet foods tomorrow and look at the raw food. My vet isn't that thrilled with the idea of raw because of shedding salmonella, but he didn't seem to be 100% against it. Mostly about 85%, lol. I like the idea of starting her out with an individiual portion, which some of them have. How long do you let it thaw? she hates cold stuff.

Your chances of getting salmonella are very very small if it's handled properly. In fact, your pet could get salmonella more from dry food. 

You can dethaw it in the fridge overnight. :nod: Just stick the portion into a baggie. To warm up the portion of it you want to feed her, put it in a baggie and run it under warm water, kind of mushing it around. If you have questions, even if you're not ready to try raw, you might want to start a thread in the raw forum, so you can ask ANY questions!

FYI, when Carolina transitioned Bugsy, she started by getting him onto scheduled meals first. Are you free feeding the kibble? Because that would be the first thing to change - especially if you want to work toward getting her to eat wet (or a combo of wet/raw) only. If she doesn't like wet, she may not like raw. Kibble addicts often don't even recognize raw as food. Carolina's transition thread is huge - but if you're interested, you'll learn a lot. You can quickly skip through it just looking for her posts: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/239771/...lucky-bugsy-and-hope-to-raw-challenges-galore It is a literal step-by-step record of the process. :lol3:

My Bella and Thunder poops all the time. I clean the box and 5 minutes later one of them is pooping again ! Why do they poop so much.???

dejolane

finnlacey said:

Your chances of getting salmonella are very very small if it's handled properly. In fact, your pet could get salmonella more from dry food. 

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Just point your vet to the long list of recalls..... and start your kitty on a good probiotic.

dejolane said:

My Bella and Thunder poops all the time. I clean the box and 5 minutes later one of them is pooping again ! Why do they poop so much.???


dejolane

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Because of the food you're feeding them. My cats poop very small volume with no smell, once every 2 days or so. They aren't constipated. They are eating food that agrees with them, which leaves very little waste.

True Lisa!

Laurie, right now, I'm struggling with getting her to eat. This is part of my problem. She isn't even eating the amount of kibble needed to "lose" weight for her size. Her liver enzymes have returned to normal, so I don't know if she is just unhappy with her food choice or what. :-/

She will eat wet, but she likes the "gravy" or pate style. If she licks the food for about a minute, I consider it a win. I just gave her a tablespoon of wellness that I nuked for a few seconds tonight. she licked it for about 50 seconds, so that is pretty good for her. It's not going to be easy, I think...

Have you tried using freeze dried chicken liver or freeze dried chicken as a topper? Both crush easily into powder and are typically well liked by cats.

Was she free feeding before? Are you at home to feed her a number of small meals? How much is she eating daily right now? Have you tried assist feeding her, or is this traumatic for her?

Also - has everything else already been ruled out? Have imaging diagnostics been done to rule out cancer? :cross: Does she act nauseous? (Does she sit in the "meatloaf" position looking uncomfortable?). Is she grooming after meals / eating?

I ask, because when we first used the appetite stimulant with Lazlo, it helped. But when we added an anti-nausea medication, things REALLY changed for his appetite. We put him on pepcid a/c (famotidine, 10mg), AND cerenia. The Cerenia REALLY made the difference. :nod: