rad cat question - first time feeding a raw meal

I have a few questions...I pulled out the frozen rad cat from the freezer and put in the fridge. It's thawed out so I want to give my boys some for dinner to see if they like it.  This will be our first attempt at this.  Should I pull it out to get it at room temp.? Also, I couldn't find calories for this. Anyone have an idea on what the calories are?  Thank you.

oh, and is it necessary to mix this with their current food?

Okay, I just went for it. I put the rad cat in a bowl of warm water to bring it closer to room temp.  I gave them each some and the swallowed up very quickly. Then they climbed up on the counter to see if I had any more for them.  I also gave them the probiotic with it. All seems well.  I'm not sure I fed them enough, though. It didn't look like a lot; although, it never does.  I'm sure my Gus will make me fully aware at some point if he is hungry. lol

Tomorrow night I'm going to try the primal Turkey I picked up for them. I have it thawing now.  I got the 1 ounce nuggets.  Do you just drop the nugget into the bowl or chop it up?

I'm glad they enjoyed the soupy rad cat.

People who feed raw diets say because it is the natural feline diet, the bioavailability is much higher, meaning they use a lot more of it, so they can eat less to get enough calories. I don't feed raw, but have no reason not to believe it.

:lol3: Well that went well! When I was first feeding raw, they liked it room temperature. In fact, they were quite sensitive to temperature. At some point, they stopped liking it room temp, and wanted it cold - but not straight out of the fridge cold. Now it comes out of the fridge and they eat it. So if for some reason, they stop eating it, you might want to try serving it cooler. :lol3:

But it was so easy!

Mine hated the Primal turkey. In fact, mine didn't like most turkey. They like actual turkey, but no commercially prepared turkey. :dk: The Primal, as you'll see, is much drier than the Rad Cat. Whenever I served them a "nugget" or "medallion" or "patty," I mushed it up a little with a fork first. :dk:

I can see my cats possibly not liking this Primal turkey; however, they seem to like everything so we will see.  I can see that the primal is much drier than the rad cat. The rad cat was like a soup.  I'm glad they loved it.  I actually would prefer that they like it a little colder but we'll see how that goes.  

I only ordered a tiny bit of these foods to see if they like them.  I will have to pick up some more since they love it :-)

So did they like the Primal turkey?  Mine, like LDGs, haven't liked any commercially prepared turkey (or chicken), but one of mine really likes the Primal beef/salmon.  I do, however, mix a little water into it.  That's all we have in our household...Radcat lamb and Primal beef/salmon.  They don't like anything else...not for lack of trying!

Well, I just gave them some of the primal Turkey. They are gobbling it up right now.  For some reason they aren't scarfing it down but they are eating in a very focused way. They've still managed to finish their food in less than 2 minutes, though.  I just can't believe they like this smelly crap.  Normally I hear from people how much they think canned cat food stinks and whatnot.  That smell never really bothers me.  The smell of this primal stuff doesn't sit right with me at all. But, they like it so far so I will keep giving it to them.  I will have to order some other flavors, though.  This seems like an easier way to do the raw to start (for me) because the food is somewhat portioned out already and it's more balanced than I can currently figure out on my own :-) 

So, getting them to eat this stuff so far hasn't been difficult. They seem to like rad cat and primal.  What shall I challenge them with next?

They've discovered their inner carnivore already! :lol3:

Well, Primal has a big range of proteins. But to add already-portioned, balanced food to the mix... I'd consider Vital Essentials, if the local pet shop can order it. They only have chicken and beef, I think. But it's a no-veggie formula. Another one, if you want to try ordering, is Nature's Menu. Again - I think they only have beef, chicken, lamb and turkey? But if they like it, it's a good idea to rotate manufacturers as well as proteins. :nod: The shipping cost isn't much for Nature's Menu. And if you call up to order, and tell them you're new to raw and giving it a try, they'll probably give you some for free.

LDG said:

They've discovered their inner carnivore already!

Well, Primal has a big range of proteins. But to add already-portioned, balanced food to the mix... I'd consider Vital Essentials, if the local pet shop can order it. They only have chicken and beef, I think. But it's a no-veggie formula. Another one, if you want to try ordering, is Nature's Menu. Again - I think they only have beef, chicken, lamb and turkey? But if they like it, it's a good idea to rotate manufacturers as well as proteins.

The shipping cost isn't much for Nature's Menu. And if you call up to order, and tell them you're new to raw and giving it a try, they'll probably give you some for free.

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Yea, I'm very happy for them. I'm just waiting to make sure they've digestively agreed with the raw :-)  The Rad cat and Primal don't feel like raw, though. It just feels like special canned food without the can, if that makes any sense. I guess I was thinking it would be chunkier or something. I guess for you folks that make your own it is chunkier.

Thanks for the info. I will check out these other brands.  I'm very excited about them seemingly adapting without trouble so far.  I will also try and call Nature's Menu...Can't hurt if they send something free :-)

I went to a store that I found on the primal website that said they were a local retailer; however, they ended up only having the Primal for dogs.  They did have a container of Rad Cat there so I picked that up.  They had a brand called Instinct.  They had some trial sizes of chicken and duck so I picked them both up.  They are little tiny bits.  I'm going to try and give it to them later this evening.  What are your thoughts on that brand? Really, this store was cute and I never knew it was so close to me but it's more catered to dogs. They did say they could order stuff in for me but it seemed like they primarily catered to the dogs :-(

I think that's Nature's Variety Instinct? I've not seen the "bites" - it's newer than when I was feeding commercial, which was January/February. :lol3: Is this the stuff? http://www.naturesvariety.com/InstinctRaw/cat/duck

NV / Instinct is a quality product. :nod: It does target 15% bone content, which is a bit high, and it's 5% veggies/other stuff. I started my raw journey with the NV Instinct frozen raw rabbit, and my cats loved it. I think it's a good product to have in rotation if they like it.

Yes, that is it. I got the trial size to see if the boys like it and again to add variety so they aren't eating the same thing every day.  Also, this store didn't have much in the way of variety for cats.  Does the bone content make it higher calories?

Re: bone and calories, I have NO idea!

Here's a link to the USDA Nutrient Database: http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/list

Now - they won't have bone, because we don't eat it. We could look up a bone meal supplement, but I'm not sure that helps. I don't know how much water is in bone. :dk:

But I don't think "minerals," per se, are packed with calories. No - what would make the biggest difference is the fat content of the various commercial foods. :nod:

I read in the pet nutrition books vitamins and minerals do not add to the calorie count. That means the only calories if there are any calories in bones they are the proteins, fats, and carbohydrates swimming in the shaft, not all that calcium and phosphorus at the ends. What concerns me about NV using 15% bone is what excess calcium can do to poop. You definitely do not want a constipated cat.

EmilyMayWilcha said:

I read in the pet nutrition books vitamins and minerals do not add to the calorie count. That means the only calories if there are any calories in bones they are the proteins, fats, and carbohydrates swimming in the shaft, not all that calcium and phosphorus at the ends. What concerns me about NV using 15% bone is what excess calcium can do to poop. You definitely do not want a constipated cat.

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But it shouldn't be a problem if used in rotation. And many cats don't have an issue with that bone content.

Since the poop issue was brought up.  Does the transition to raw itself cause a constipation?

Both of my boys pooped once every day on evo.  I'm noticing in the past few days since giving them some raw meals the poop isn't as frequent. So far this morning there isn't anything in the box since yesterday - no pee no poop, and yesterday there was only one cat's poop in there, so someone hasn't pood in a few days.  Normally I don't check it first thing but I was just wondering.  I usually scoop in about an hour so they have some time to produce something for me to clean up. :-)

wolcar said:

Since the poop issue was brought up.  Does the transition to raw itself cause a constipation?

Both of my boys pooped once every day on evo.  I'm noticing in the past few days since giving them some raw meals the poop isn't as frequent. So far this morning there isn't anything in the box since yesterday - no pee no poop, and yesterday there was only one cat's poop in there, so someone hasn't pood in a few days.  Normally I don't check it first thing but I was just wondering.  I usually scoop in about an hour so they have some time to produce something for me to clean up. :-)

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It's not constipation. They just poop less frequently. Pooping only every 2 days or so is not uncommon when feeding raw. Mine pee *a lot* though.

wolcar said:

Yes, that is it. I got the trial size to see if the boys like it and again to add variety so they aren't eating the same thing every day.  Also, this store didn't have much in the way of variety for cats.  Does the bone content make it higher calories?

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Bone marrow contains protein and fat which will add calories but I'm pretty sure there isn't enough to add significantly to the total calories of the food.

I just looked at the NV web site page Laurie posted and it says that product has 65 calories per oz. That's absurd, as in can't possibly be true. Man I'm getting annoyed at manufacturers posting inaccurate information!  

Edit - I'm going to have to retract my "can't possibly be true" statement. It is *possible* for the NV raw products to have 65 kcal/oz. If they really are that high in calories I'm very suspicious of the actual composition (vs the guaranteed analysis) of their foods though. Being that high in calories would explain why they recommend feeding a 10 lbs cat only 3.5 oz a day.

Edit 2 - For comparison, I recently asked Rad Cat about the calories in their products and this is what they gave me: turkey - 29 kcals/oz, chicken - 35 kcals/oz, lamb - 46 kcals/oz. Those numbers are more in line with what I would expect of a raw food that is high in protein and relatively low in fat. Carbs have the same caloric density as protein so the carbs from fruits and veggies in the NV products don't explain the difference in calories. It would seem the NV products are very high in fat.

mschauer said:

It would seem the NV products are very high in fat.

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I wouldn't be surprised. I don't remember the ingredients in the others, but in the rabbit I was feeding, I think pork fat was the second ingredient.