FIV and vaccines... and dentals

So my FIV kitty has to have another dental. He had one maybe about 9-10 months ago at a full vet clinic that my friend worked at where they did the full CBC panel. Normally I take him to a wonderful vet at the low cost clinic down the street from me who just now started scheduling for dentals (they hadn't done them previously and just referred). Last time I was to the low cost clinic I didn't have him vaccinated. I have theories against vaccinating my pets yearly so I refused when they said he was due. He lives in my bedroom with another healthy cat and they never leave. Plus with FIV I hear so many different things...

Anyways, the low cost clinic is recommending I do another one before they schedule me in for the dental. Plus they are telling me I have to vaccinate him, since coming in to the clinic he could catch something or be exposed. But when I had him in for the check up a month ago they let me refuse the vaccines. Do you think it would be a bad idea to vaccinate an FIV+ cat who stays indoors and maybe call around to find another clinic or should I vaccinate him so he can have his dental done? I have heard mixed ideas about vaccinating FIV cats. BTW he shows no sign of illness besides a bit of a runny nose sometimes. Well and the mouth full of sores and bad teeth. Also if anyone has recommendations on how to relieve the sore red irritated mouth naturally or holistically I would love to hear any suggestions Thanks

What vaccination are you talking about - FVRCP? Rabies?  You could ask for a blood test which will show antibody titres and they could gauge from that if he needs to be vaccinated. My cats are well protected also, but I have had them come down with URI's and a few nastier viruses which I have to have tracked in on my shoes somehow, I can't think of any other way. Or, they picked them up at the vet's office.

Stomatitis is a horrible disease and miserable both for the cat and for us to see the suffering. Full mouth extraction can help, and certainly did in all but one of my foster FIV cats. He had to remain on depo to control it.
 

Ahh sorry I meant FVRCP. Will the CBC panel that they are wanting to do show the antibody titres or is that something separate?

I had never heard or read anywhere FVRCP should be not be given to FIV+ cats, but some people with healthy cats refuse to let vets give that one for other reasons.

http://vetmedicine.about.com/od/vaccinations/a/FALC_vacctiters.htm

I don't know how good this source is, but is part of the New York Times so should be reasonably reliable.

Jen- why not put your questions to the experts

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FIVCats/?v=1&t=search&ch=web&pub=groups&sec=group&slk=2

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FIVCats2/?v=1&t=search&ch=web&pub=groups&sec=group&slk=3

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/fiv-healthscience/

We work with three different vets. One is holistic, one is traditional but good, and one is traditional but great. We have an FIV+ kitty. None of our vets recommend vaccinations for him. He gets fairly frequent dentals, but they're done at the vet, not a low-cost clinic. I don't know what difference that makes. :dk:

The steroids would actually be contra-indicated in a cat with FIV, because they function to suppress the immune system further.

Do you know if he has gingivitis or stomatitis? It makes a difference.

If it's stomatitis, PM Carolina. If it's gingivitis, you might want to see if there's a holistic vet you can get to. Treatment would depend on the condition causing it (I recommend a holistic vet trained in Chinese Medicine). Both Lazlo and Chumley (Chum is the FIV+ boy) had gingivitis treated successfully without western meds, but the treatment protocol was different for each.

I would never vaccinate a kitty that has any type of illness, whether acute or chronic. In these kitties their immune systems are already compromised, so by vaccinating you're looking at a host of problems. A great [long] article written by Dr. Don Hamilton on whether vaccines are helpful or harmful: http://www.holisticat.com/vaccinations.html

I follow these rules:

1. When possible, give individual vaccines, not combinations (some vaccines only come as combinations, and there is no option to give separately).
2. Never give a vaccination while other procedures are being performed, such as dentistry, surgery, grooming and boarding (these situations are already creating stress to the immune system).
3. Never vaccinate a sick animal, no matter how mild the illness.
4. Never vaccinate a pregnant animal.
5. Do not vaccinate at too young an age as they still have maternal immunity which prevents the vaccine from working.

Just my 2-cents.

EmilyMayWilcha said:

I had never heard or read anywhere FVRCP should be not be given to FIV+ cats, but some people with healthy cats refuse to let vets give that one for other reasons.

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He is sickish and has a crappy immune system, it isn't recommended to vaccinate sick animals and injecting him with a live vaccine doesn't sound like a very smart idea. That is why I hesitate. Most of my cats get their kitten shots and one adult shot and they are done. For this clinic to require it kind of bums me out. Although it isn't required by law so I don't see why I can't refuse it.

LDG said:

We work with three different vets. One is holistic, one is traditional but good, and one is traditional but great. We have an FIV+ kitty. None of our vets recommend vaccinations for him. He gets fairly frequent dentals, but they're done at the vet, not a low-cost clinic. I don't know what difference that makes.

The steroids would actually be contra-indicated in a cat with FIV, because they function to suppress the immune system further.
Do you know if he has gingivitis or stomatitus? It makes a difference.
If it's stomatitis, PM Carolina. If it's gingivitis, you might want to see if there's a holistic vet you can get to. Treatment would depend on the condition causing it (I recommend a holistic vet trained in Chinese Medicine). Both Lazlo and Chumley (Chum is the FIV+ boy) had gingivitis treated successfully without western meds, but the treatment protocol was different for each.

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I would love to find a holistic vet near me. I will have to do some googling He has bad teeth, that is all that I have been told. I will probably do the blood work again and have them check him out fully before the dental. There was no mention of stomatitis last time he was in.

I have two FIV+ foster kitties, one of them had a horrible allergic reaction to the vaccine that caused him to have food allergies for almost a full year. I would not give them any vaccines. You should not go to any vet that would insist on vaccinating an FIV+ cat and there should be no reason for you to have to vaccinate your kitty year after year for ANY type of vaccination unless you let your cat outside or have a lot of outdoor cats coming into your house that have not been vetted.

If you EVER have to vaccinate again, you should insist on merial purevac vaccine and tell them your cat cannot have any adjuvanted vaccine. Merial one-year is the only non-adjuvanted vaccine. The adjuvant is a serum added to most animal vaccines that is designed to trigger a large immune reaction and make the vaccine more potent. It has an idiocyncratic reaction in cats. It is not good for FIV+ cats. For me, after being lied to by my vet (and now one of my cats has VAS vaccine-associated-sarcoma) I would never vaccinate again and I would need to be shown the vaccine for any fosters I have, to make sure it is the merial purevac brand. Yes, some vets do lie. 

There is a lot of information about stomatitis on this site http://www.fivtherapy.com/  there is a yahoo group for FIV cat parents.You may already know about it. 

Also there is a lot of recent research on vitamin C for FIV cats. Latest research suggests that giving your kitty vitamin C can make FIV go into almost complete remission for at least some FIV+ cats. 

I also looked for a homeopathic/holistic vet for my FIV foster boy and I ended up finding this 2 docs pet wellness site, where they have a lot of homeopathic ingredients already put together to help pets. I ordered this one http://www.2docspethealth.com/red-label/pet-antioxidant-formula.html  the antioxidant formula for my two FIV+ cats. It comes in capsules and you can open them and shake half a capsule onto your kitty's food; they don't need more than that since 1/2 capsule is fine for a 10lb kitty. It is liver flavored and my cat likes the taste. This will give him the vitamin C that will help him. It will probably also help his teeth :-).