I may lose all my cats. =(

He's a beautiful boy. He's coming home today, right? Happy Homecoming and that all will be well from now on. :heart3:

Thank you for the kind words! I hope he's coming home, yes. I'm waiting for the vet to do the morning rounds and confirm he can come home. Technically it's a formality, because I told them I was taking him back today. Five days in a tiny cage is enough. He needs his family now.

I hope your Lil Stinker is home with you today and that you might have some more definitive news from the vets. :cross: Staying positive for your little man :rub: hoping that this was just some illness or infection.....

Feralvr said:

I hope your Lil Stinker is home with you today and that you might have some more definitive news from the vets.

Staying positive for your little man

hoping that this was just some illness or infection.....

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Stinker a.k.a. Stinkerdoodles a.k.a. Doodlebug is indeed home now. He was "weirded out" for all of 5 seconds before he ran over to Tar Pit and butted heads with him.

Unfortunately no, I don't have a clearer diagnosis per se; the release report the specialist gave me states what his symptoms were (fever, vomiting, lethargy, moderate globulin elevation and light bilirubin elevationin the blood and swollen lymph nodes in the abdomen). It also says that, given the highly positive response to the chosen treatment (fluids and antibiotics) they are going on the hypothesis that it is a undefined bacterial infection of some sort. HOWEVER, it also states that should symptoms relapse, further testing for FIP and/or toxoplasmosis and/or lymphoma should be done.

Frankly, I am just exhausted by the whole thing. I haven't slept or eaten right in the last 5 days. But I've sort of "zenned out" and decided that he either doesn't have FIP and will recover from this...or he has FIP, and there's nothing I can do but what I am doing anyway, which is feed him, love him, and keep an eye on him. I have already sort of "accepted his death" so no matter how things turn out, I will not be surprised. I'm just going to love him silly for the weeks, months, or years he has with me.  

Plucky's Dad said:

Frankly, I am just exhausted by the whole thing. I haven't slept or eaten right in the last 5 days. But I've sort of "zenned out" and decided that he either doesn't have FIP and will recover from this...or he has FIP, and there's nothing I can do but what I am doing anyway, which is feed him, love him, and keep an eye on him. I have already sort of "accepted his death" so no matter how things turn out, I will not be surprised. I'm just going to love him silly for the weeks, months, or years he has with me. :heart2:  :heart2: :heart2: :heart2: :heart2: :heart2: :heart2: :heart2:

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I think you are thinking very clearly, especially since you have had not sleep :lol3: I SO wish we had that "crystal ball" but then life ... well, wouldn't be filled with the ups and the downs, we would know what to expect all the time. I guess what I am saying is that sometimes you just have to accept that you have done all you can emotionally and financially. Live in the moment, enjoy the time you have and STAY POSITIVE that you WILL have many, many more days, weeks and months with this special little creature. You might be surprised :cross: I have been in your shoes and I am sure others here have been too. Every day is a gift and I have learned to take it as such. Give Stinker a rub :rub: from me !!!!!! I bet he is SOO happy to be home and I am hopeful that he will continue to do well :cross: .

Hope your little guy is doing well at home.

One thing I would say for looking after cat (as well as human!) intestinal health is making sure they get a good amount of raw food in their diet.  That will help ensure they have lots of healthy bacteria to help 'drown out' any nasty that may find its way in to your cat's food intake (they nibble on all sorts of things!).

Also the high level of beneficial enzymes in raw food act to detox the gut system, boost the immune system, and help with digestion.

Our guys and gals have raw heart & beef combo (heart for the taurine it contains), chicken mince made from ground carcasses (the bone is very finely ground), and sometimes veal or plain chunky beef.  These products all come from a reputable pet food supplier, and they are very fresh then snap frozen.

We also given them small amounts of raw organic cow's milk for the enzyme content (some people have great results using the raw milk as a base ingredient for kitten infant formula), and organic plain live yoghurt.  The lactose in cow's milk only seems to be a problem when the milk has been pasteurized, which seems to also be the problem for humans with lactose intolerance/sensitivity.  If you were going to try any of your cats with raw milk or yoghurt, it would be best to give just a little bit, and monitor their toileting to make sure they are not having problems.  A couple of our cats had soft stools the first few times they tried the raw dairy, but I think it was because their guts weren't that great (both being the runts of their litters, and one guy was very malnourished when we found his litter), so their guts were adjusting to new flora.  They have both filled out instead of being runty and are calmer in themselves now, in quite a short time of introducing that little bit of enzymes to their diet.

For any dietary changes with cats, it is important to GO SLOW so they and their tummies don't get upset.  There are some good resources online for that.  We don't have full raw diet for our cats, they have Purina One nibbles because some of them are grazers, and they just love tinned tuna or pilchards for a treat.  But mostly it is a good amount of pre-frozen raw, and that satisfies their appetites much longer than tinned food.

Color therapy is also good for treating viral infections, cats respond really well to it, and it is a gentle treatment.

Good luck to you and your furry family.

He is doing ok, except that now, after about a week home, I have to admit defeat with regards to giving him his antibiotics. Out of 12 doses he should have received since he came home last Tuesday, I've managed to give him 5...and now, I have simply given up trying any further.

-He won't eat it if hidden or ground up in food.

-He won't let me get close enough to him to catch him.

-IF I can catch him, I am totally unable to pry his jaws open.

-Pilling by hand doesn't work; pilling with a piller doesn't work.

He struggles so very much, even when scruffed, that he may hurt himself if I try again, and I have no one to help me.

So I can no longer feed him his antibiotics. I'm just hoping he will still be ok. I really have no alternatives. =(

If he really needs antibiotics, ask the vet if you can bring him in for the injectable kind. Or, do you think he would take a liquid easier? I honestly CANNOT get a pill into most cats but I'm better with liquid.

I called the clinic and they are going to have the vet's assistant (vet is on vacation) call me tomorrow about all this. I mentionned that liquids wouldn't be an option either, as the main issue with Stinker is his complete unwillingness to be picked up, or held. I've had him only since December, and he's comfortable with petting, chin and belly scratching, even batting my leg for a treat!...but picking up or otherwise restraining is an absolute no-no.

I am the opposite of Willowy in that liquids are a nightmare for me and piling is much easier and much quicker for me. BUT for Stinker - well, it sounds like neither will work. SO as Willowy suggested, I would get the injectable antibiotic. OH these kitties!!!! The stress and worry!!!!! and sleepless nights!!!!! Some are just nearly impossible to medicate. Best of luck and sending you loads of good luck vibes

OH :lol3: I am assuming that he is doing better though :cross: ???

I'm so sorry to hear about Stinker, what a funny, wonderful name! I have been through a similar experience with the vets charging a ton of money and then inconclusive results. I am sending you vibes in hopes your boy improves. Your life and his life are so much richer for you having helped him. I think everything will be ok no matter what! 

Feralvr said:

I am the opposite of Willowy in that liquids are a nightmare for me and piling is much easier and much quicker for me. BUT for Stinker - well, it sounds like neither will work. SO as Willowy suggested, I would get the injectable antibiotic. OH these kitties!!!! The stress and worry!!!!! and sleepless nights!!!!! Some are just nearly impossible to medicate. Best of luck and sending you loads of good luck vibes

OH

I am assuming that he is doing better though

???

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Oh yes, other than the supernaturalresistance to receiving the pills, he's back to being the little ball of fur blur he always was.  He eats a lot, drinks normally, graces the litterbox normally, runs after everyone else in the house...and sleeps lots. Normal Stinker! I always groan whenever I hear a cat "hacking" as if to bring up a hairball, fearing he is having a relapse...but so far, he has only done that once or twice and vomited nothing. Usually it's a hair kielbasa from one of the others heh!

Thanks for the kindness hehe! 

I am not saying all vets are doom and gloom...but this vet seems like he jumped to a very scary and very serious conclusion really quickly without ruling out the more common and more obvious causes for a cat to be coughing and spitting up bile. I experienced something similar with my cat Pooka (RIP my angel) years ago and my vet had me CONVINCED it was intestinal lymphoma and she was going to die. I refused to believe it and I treated her for food allergies and put her on a homemade diet, and bam she got better. All the sleepless nights crying because I thought she was dying on cancer and the poor thing was just allergic to chicken!

Sometimes vets irritate me, I say if you hear hoofbeats think horses not zebras....but some vets just jumped to the worse case scenario, and sadly I have noticed it is the bigger more 'specialized' pet hospitals who are the worst for this. They are also the ones who will suggest thousands in tests instead of just treating the cat and seeing if they improve. Example of this was when my sisters cat Tasha had CRF and woke up one morning blind, my sister took her down to Angell Memorial Hospital and the vets there told my sister to spend hundreds upon hundreds for an MRI and numerous tests when all it was was high blood pressure. 

Sorry if I was ranting, I just can relate to what you are feeling because of this vet's jumping to conclusions and I sympathize. I am glad he is doing better, and remember like so many people on here said, FIP is not contagious in the way you would think. Only a small fraction of cats that come into contact with it ever develop symptoms. 

I am also adding this, be CAREFUL of Convenia, the injectable antibiotic. Pooka, the cat I mentioned died from it. It doesn't kill all cats, however if a cat has an allergy to it like we found out Pooka did there is no way to remove it from the cats system. It is there for a month, and if he is allergic he will not make it a week. Pooka started foaming hours after the shot and then seizing, and I regret to this day that I let me vet talk me into a shot for a URI on my very easily pilled baby. Pooka trusted me and took pills with no fuss, and yet my vet just assumed I would want the convenience of the shot instead. I know you said Stinker is not easily pilled, but make sure he really needs the antibiotics badly enough to risk Convenia.

Thanks Jezahb!

My conclusion regarding the whole debacle with Stinker is that yes, the vets had some reason to think it was FIP...but it could have been so many other things, and although I'm not a vet I see no rhyme or reason to how they were trying to determine it. It should have been "It could be FIP, but it could also be these other easily verificable things too. Let's rule those out."

Instead they proceded with "Well, it could be FIP. Let's see if this test comes back positive. Nope. Ok, how about this one? Hmm, inconclusive. Oh, but then we can always try this one. Darn, inconclusive too. But it could still be FIP, so..." Never any mention of "Well we ruled out this, this, and that."

I only got frustrated when, after waiting all weekend for a specialist to examine him, I was told "Well, it could still be FIP so we should do this, that, and that, and maybe re-run the blood tests...". I may be totally wrong, but I felt 100% like they were just trying to get more money out of me.

I'm glad L'il Stinker is feeling so much better. that he continues so and never looks back. It may be the clinic you were using was being unethical with their recommending so many tests. On the other hand, if he hadn't had them, you might be second guessing yourself, and the vet, now, wondering if you "should have" had them done.

If you feel you were 'used' badly, you may want to consider finding another vet.

Jezahb said:

I am also adding this, be CAREFUL of Convenia, the injectable antibiotic. Pooka, the cat I mentioned died from it. It doesn't kill all cats, however if a cat has an allergy to it like we found out Pooka did there is no way to remove it from the cats system. It is there for a month, and if he is allergic he will not make it a week. Pooka started foaming hours after the shot and then seizing, and I regret to this day that I let me vet talk me into a shot for a URI on my very easily pilled baby. Pooka trusted me and took pills with no fuss, and yet my vet just assumed I would want the convenience of the shot instead. I know you said Stinker is not easily pilled, but make sure he really needs the antibiotics badly enough to risk Convenia.

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Agree with you about convenia. It is way over used and way overrated. For some, it may be a 'life saver'. But it is over used, in my opinion. And it stays in the system for up to 60 days.

There are many methods to pilling a cat. I prefer pills over liquid and have found the method I use to be practically fool-proof. (yes, I know I sound like I am bragging. That's because I am. :lol3

otto said:

There are many methods to pilling a cat. I prefer pills over liquid and have found the method I use to be practically fool-proof. (yes, I know I sound like I am bragging. That's because I am. :lol3

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OH please DO tell us your method ?!!! Might help others too

Jezahb said:

I am also adding this, be CAREFUL of Convenia, the injectable antibiotic. Pooka, the cat I mentioned died from it. It doesn't kill all cats, however if a cat has an allergy to it like we found out Pooka did there is no way to remove it from the cats system. It is there for a month, and if he is allergic he will not make it a week. Pooka started foaming hours after the shot and then seizing, and I regret to this day that I let me vet talk me into a shot for a URI on my very easily pilled baby. Pooka trusted me and took pills with no fuss, and yet my vet just assumed I would want the convenience of the shot instead. I know you said Stinker is not easily pilled, but make sure he really needs the antibiotics badly enough to risk Convenia.

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I just want to say I know how you feel, the same thing happened with my Toby and letting the vet talk me into giving him a three year rabies shot, and he now has VAS vaccine associated sarcoma and is on chemotherapy. Even though the vet did that to your cat, you still wish every day that you could make that decision over again and you wonder how these drugs can be legal and given out so freely.

We use smoked fish roe to hide quartered pill pieces.  Just roll it up in a little ball  of the fish roe, mush it closed around the pill.  All our cats are crazy for smoked fish roe and swallow the whole thing without messing around.  The texture is kind of sticky too, so they get busy swallowing trying to get as much down as they can as quickly as possible before anyone else gets some!

That's the best trick we have found, but I would like to find out if there are more tricks too

Feralvr said:

OH please DO tell us your method ?!!! Might help others too

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FurryFriends said:

We use smoked fish roe to hide quartered pill pieces.  Just roll it up in a little ball  of the fish roe, mush it closed around the pill.  All our cats are crazy for smoked fish roe and swallow the whole thing without messing around.  The texture is kind of sticky too, so they get busy swallowing trying to get as much down as they can as quickly as possible before anyone else gets some!

That's the best trick we have found, but I would like to find out if there are more tricks too

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*****
For pilling, I advise this: use a dot of something soft and wet s/he likes. You can try yogurt, a little softened butter or cream cheese, or even a little favorite wet food, but yogurt or soft butter works better. Make sure you have everything ready, in a bowl is good. Pill, and spoon with a little yogurt (or whatever)

Use the holding position. This is: Kneel on the floor with your feet crossed behind you, hold kitty between your knees facing out. S/he will try to back away and will not be able to.

Stay calm and confident. Speak to her softly, telling her what you are about to do, and why.

With cat in holding position (as described above), put a dot of the yogurt (or whatever) on kitty's mouth to keep her busy and to get the saliva flowing (so the pill doesn't stick).

While kitty is licking her mouth, hold pill in one hand, pry open mouth with other, poke pill in, toward side of mouth and as far back as you can. This should be a very quick all in one movement, and it will be, as you develop skill.

You can let go of her mouth at this point, but keep a hand on her to keep her still while you get another bit of yogurt (or ...) on your finger and put a dot on her nose and mouth. She will lick off the yogurt and swallow, pill and all.

This method can work with liquids too.

I make it sound easier than it is, at first. It does take practice. And you have to approach it with confidence, kitty will sense if you are hesitant. But once you master this method you'll be able to pill any cat, any time. I know I can!

Some pills (baytril for instance) are very bad tasting. For those it helps to put the pill into a plain empty gel capsule. Gel caps go down easier too. Check with vet or pharmacist before using capsules, as a capsule may affect the dissolving time and this may be an issue for some meds.

You can order empty gel caps on line.

ps, the wet treat on nose trick works with ear drops, eye care, anything really, even nail trims! The idea is, 1)s/he associates the nastiness with something good, and 2) S/he's so busy licking her nose she forgets about the other stuff.

I have been medicating cats for years with this method. It works even on Mazy. It works even on cats who people swear are "impossible to pill" (I have several friends who call on me when they have cats who need to be medicated)

It's all in the approach, really. Staying calm, and confident, and talking to the kitty about it all, it makes a difference.