Dealing with predators

I'm a big believer in outdoor cats. I just bought a nice place out in the country, 30 minutes from a major eastern Canadian city. When I move in, I'm going to get two kittens. I'm wondering what I can do about predators.

I've been through another thread on the issue and thought I'd ask for more specific information to me. I'm surprised that foxes aren't seen as more of a threat. And I've never heard of a fisher! The only measures I know to take are not to let them out when they are too small and not to declaw them.

What can I tell you about my ecosystem? I live in the deciduous zone. My property is rather large and completely without trees. It backs onto a forest. There aren't any farms nearby (I'm told the soil is too acidic).

So how much do I have to worry about predators in a place like that and how can I protect my cats? Camouflage my cats? De-appetize my cats? Ward off predators? Build a safe room? Arm my cats?

Nothing you can do, really, except the "safe room" bit might work, if by that you mean an outdoor enclosure :lol3:. Everybody I know who has free-roaming outdoor cats in the country has lost a lot of cats to predators. Coyotes, mainly, but great horned owls apparently also take a lot of cats (I don't think we have fishers here). Smaller birds of prey will catch kittens. Sometimes raccoons will kill cats, sometimes they co-exist peacefully. Skunks and possums don't seem to be a threat to adult cats. Foxes and adult cats seem to have some kind of agreement to leave each other alone, but they will take kittens. Tomcats will chew intact females up during the mating process and will sometimes kill kittens.

There are just a lot of dangers out there. I don't know what the predator population is like in that specific area, so I can't make a useful threat assessment. But, in general, outside is pretty dangerous for kitties.

I can't say much except GET the kittens fixed!!! a rabies shot and get the kittens off a farm who are raised from long lines of outside cats as opposed to kittens raised to an inside most of the time mother.  Also keep some back up money in case something major happens

What carnivourous mammels live where you are?  Foxes (if they are like UK foxes) don't seem to pose a big danger to healthy adult cats, but badgers and pine martins would, as will bears and alrger dog species.  A fenced area (fence needs to be 6' tall and have an overhang) as large as you can manage with a variety of vegetation will give them a great time outdoors with a greatly reduced risk.

Oh yes, I'm fully aware of the biological implications and visit the vet regularly. What I'm uncertain of is the tooth and claw implications.

I've looked to the Wikipedia pages on the fisher and the coyote and the maps that list their whereabouts include my region. However, since I didn't even know what a fisher was until yesterday, I'm not too concerned about those. Coyotes? ACME doesn't even service this area, so I don't know how dangerous any here would be. It occurs to me that I should probably contact whatever government institution would know about that sort of thing. The SPCA might be able to tell me something about that.

You know, a safe room doesn't sounds like all that bad an idea. From what I read about fishers, they are likely to strike before a cat could get half way there, but if I could build a structure with an opening that even a pretty wide cat could fit through, do you suppose cats would be smart enough to retreat there?

No. If you want your cats outside safely, I'd build an enclosure for them rather than letting them free roam. But if you want them to free roam, just know you make lose them to a predator. :dk: Coyotes are the most likely culprit.

Agree that it's a dangerous world out there for outside cats. Either an enclosure that directly attaches to the house (there are several ways to do this) of take them out supervised, even on a harness and leash if you can. I'm just not a fan of outdoor cats. Even in the city where I live, there are evil people, antifreeze dripping from cars, warm engines on cold days, traffic and the four legged predators that will take kittens and cats. I find it much better to take mine out on a harness or supervised directly or to create an enriching environment indoors.
 

I've lost count of the number of people I know who've had cats killed by coyotes. And that's within city limits.

One of my kitties came from a farm where the annual loss of barn cats to coyote predation was staggering. Didn't matter that they all had access to a "safe room" (aka the barn).

If it were my cat, a fully secured outdoor enclosure would be the best option.
 

I live in a very rural area, and there are coyotes in the woods out back. People hunt them from time-to-time. NONE of the TNR'd feral cats that were here in the winter of 2009 OR 2010 are still coming by for food. The last one I saw was here eating after Hurricane Irene in the fall.

Five of the 11 cats TNR'd in Spring 2011 are still with us. :cross:

If I could build an enclosure I would. But we don't own the property.

We even lost a dead cat to coyotes on my in-law's farm. We'd dug what we thought was a reasonably secure grave, but when we visited a few months later it had been dug up, with the cat's bones scattered around.
I know of a cat that was killed by a hawk here in the city, so that's another predator to be aware of.

I lived on a farm in a fairly rural area with some scattering of forested areas and I managed a feral colony there for about 13 years. Our biggest predator were the dogs in the neighborhood. If you have neighbors with farm dogs, they tend to keep the coyotes away, but will kill free roaming cats in their place. With that said, the biggest deterrent I had for predators were my own dogs. When we first moved there, we walked the property line with them so that they could mark the perimeter. The only frequent times we had predator issues were when we would go on vacation and board our dogs. The feral cats were open season when we would go away, and I lost the better part of a colony one year when we went away for 10 days. Our pet sitter who came out once a day said that they disappeared within 3 days.

Kittens are the easiest target, and they can be taken by birds of prey and snakes. Our dogs didn't have an effect on these predators, and we only lost the kittens, not the adult cats. But the dogs kept the coyotes, raccoons, foxes, bobcats, cougars, badgers and other dogs away. None of these animals want to mess with dogs in an area that is well scented by them.

An interesting bond developed between the feral cats and our dogs. When we moved to our current home, we took all the cats in the colony with us and acclimated them to the new home by keeping them locked in a sunroom for the first 6 weeks. On the day we let them outside onto the deck off the sunroom, they wouldn't leave that deck until the dogs came out and walked into the yard. Then the cats followed them around and wouldn't go more than about 20 feet from them. The cats instinctively understood that our dogs were there to protect them. We trained our dogs to respect all of our cats and they are just more of their "pack" members.

If you are going to adopt kittens, I really suggest that you ask your neighbors around them for kittens born in their barns, and don't take them until they are a little older. Kittens really are fare game for predators, and if you adopt from a shelter, the kittens may have zero outdoor savy.

pushylady said:

We even lost a dead cat to coyotes on my in-law's farm. We'd dug what we thought was a reasonably secure grave, but when we visited a few months later it had been dug up, with the cat's bones scattered around.

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Drop a big flat rock on top of the grave. That keeps them out all of the time.

Don't forget eagles and hawks are predators, too.  I live next to the Ouchita National Forest and see predators every day that would kill my kitties.  It doesn't take bears, bobcats, or any other predator long to get from the treeline to your house.  The cats will be naturally drawn to the forest and that will make it even worse.

The house here has a screened back porch and the cats like to sit out there and watch all the wildlife.
 

From front to back, Sugar, Silly, Spice (on the box) and Julie.  They are watching a bluejay that is sitting on a branch about 10 feet from the screen.

Please reconsider having outdoor cats.  They will live much longer and be much happier indoors.   Also, they will not be as prone to picking up fleas, ticks, ear mites and such.

However, living in a free country means you can make your own decisions.

You can make some pretty good arguments as to why one should keep cats indoors, but their happiness isn't among of them. If my next cat does not find a great deal of wonder and fulfillment from the outside, she'll be my first (they can become complacent as indoor cats, but that's not fulfillment). The biohazards can be treated and measures of prevention can be taken. The only credible threat to the well-being of my cats, where I'm going to be, is from predators. And that threat is what I'm trying to understand.

I am glad that you are giving it a lot of thought.  I only know that my cats find the windows (with sills made for fat-butted cats, now gone across the Rainbow Bridge) and the screened-in back porch a wonder all the time.  The main difference is that predators can't get at them.  If they are outside and something spooks them, they can run inside where I can protect them.......

Don't forget human predators either.  I live in the country on several acres but the neighbors in this small town will shoot dogs and cats that wonder on their property.  We have a mountain lion that walks around not to mention racoons, skunks, badgers, foxes and the worse are the coyotes.  We have a huge barn owl, hawks and eagles.  My heart is just racing thinking about my cat accidentally getting out of the house.  She was sitting on her cat stand in the window and a fox jumped up and hit the window trying to get to her.  I would NEVER let my cat outside unattended.  Never.  People around here have "barn cats" that means disposal cats used to kill mice in the barns.  The other day at the feed store the friendliest black cat was attacked by something he was walking on three legs and the other front leg was chewed up.  They won't even take him to the vets because he is just a barn cat.  He couldn't even greet me like he usually does needless to say I left crying and I haven't been to that feed store since.  Nothing good happens to cats left outside to roam and explore.

Some of the human predators around here are worse that the animal ones. At least the animals are acting according to instinct instead of mental illness or meth (the biggest problem in this county)

I'm assuming  you won't get white kittens?  Perhaps black kittens (although black cats are my favorite and I'm going to be upset when they are taken) or brown tabby?  Will you wait until they are several months old so they have developed a sense of fear and their mother has taught them caution?  And, why kittens and not young cats who have developed some wisdom on how to survive? If they are injured by wildlife will you euthanize or make them indoor?  I think just about everywhere across the U.S., town, suburb or countryside, coyotes are most likely to take a cat.
 

Sorry to be so blunt, but cats killed by predators likely face a horrible death. Is that keeping them happy?

There are ways to have happy indoor cats, especially if you are willing to build them an outdoor enclosure if they are used to going out. Three of mine have never been outdoor cats and they are happy, well-adjusted 9 year olds.

Momofmany said:

If you are going to adopt kittens, I really suggest that you ask your neighbors around them for kittens born in their barns, and don't take them until they are a little older. Kittens really are fare game for predators, and if you adopt from a shelter, the kittens may have zero outdoor savy.

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And you'll likely need a steady supply, every few years or so.