question about stress meds

Hello everyone:

Here I am again worried about my Lucas who is getting sicker and sicker everyday.  Lucas has been too stressed since we moved to the new house and some days he seemed to be getting better.  In fact, he was looking much better like two weeks ago and I was so happy, then he got sick again.  He is all red and itchy, he has licked his belly raw, his back is hairless, I mean , every part of his body that he can reach with his mouth or paws, he has scratched and he keeps pulling his hair out.  He looks terrible.  I can't take a photo because it is too painful for me to share a pic of him in that condition.

Our last vet wanted me to start Lucas on prozac, but I went and got a second opinion and our new vet prescribed a Homeopatic remedy but it is so mild that it only helped for a little while, once we moved, it didn't work anymore.

I just wanted to ask how some of you have managed your kitties stress and anxiety, I just want to have an idea of what is the right thing to do.  I don;t want to put Lucas on antidepressants, I need to know what other options are there so I can know just in case.  I will of course go to the vet and ask him what to do, but if anyone here had similar experiences with their kitties and you can share, please do, I need help.

Thank you

Tammy

Personally I would try him on the Prozac.  In my view you might as well give water or sugar pills as homeopathy. 

As you say, Lucas is suffering, I also wouldn't like the idea of Prozac but I like far less the idea of my cat having red, itchy skin.  If I took him to a vet in the UK I suspect he would also get a steroid shot and possibly an antibiotic as well to help settle his skin down - having a red itchy skin would be stressful in itself.

Well, I'm not always sure on such severe medication like Prozac. Maybe try a homeopathic solution first. There is great herbs that help with stress. Just ask your vet about it.

I've used Prozac for a couple of my cats and it works far, far better than the older anti-stress meds. Just keep an eye on him for lethargy because you may need to adjust the dose until he gets used to it. No side affects on my cats.

The only cat I've had who groomed himself almost bald on his belly and legs turned out to have food allergies. We thought stress at first since he'd been a long-time stray who then spent three months in a really small cage (he's a big boy) at animal control and then came home with me. All the other signs said stress, and we treated that simply with giving him his own large space and plenty of quiet time to adjust. He did stop overgrooming, so that seemed  to signal it had been stress related. When he started again, we removed elements of his diet and then reintroduced them. He's very sensitive to wheat, or perhaps just gluten.
 

thank you all for your suggestions.  Lucas has been taking homeopatic and natural remedies and they haven't helped so far. Thinking it was food allergies we have tried numerous foods, none has helped.  I our new vet thinks it isn't the food.  he says it is caused by the lupus lucas has and stress.  He told me it isn't food allergies because lucas has autoinflicted wounds on his belly, back, back legs and other areas because he is over grooming and the red hairless areas  are the ones that he can reach and the rest of his skin looks good.

sometimes i believe that, sometimes i don't.  sometimes i think it is the food, but i don't know what else to try.  he's been on all hypoallergenic foods, limited ingredients, greain free, you name it. 

He is a very nervous boy, he always has been.  i need to find relief for my lucas pronto.

Hi Tammy,
Sorry you are still going through that with your boy
Well..... Hope is quite the stressed little girl too, and she is going through some hard times with all the changes in my life right now.... She has a bladder inflammation that is very likely due to stress, so her urine has a bit of blood in it (yes we have been to the vet ), and she is soooo on the edge.
I started giving her Rescue Remedy on all meals, and made sure to plug feliway on the walls again. Rescue Remedy is helping a whole lot.
The dosage is 4 drops - I give that on all meals (3 meals a day).
Here is the thing though - a lot had to do with MY stress...... so I have been taking something that is comparable to Feliway as well - because she is very sensitive. She is doing better as I do better.
As far as diets..... I would still give raw a try - I know you have tried..... I know he didn't like..... I know he didn't eat..... There are ways to make that work - it is not going to be "pronto". It is going to be slowly. It took 3 months for Lucky to even lick - I repeat - Lick raw for the first time..... and she had never in her life eaten wet food. Today that's what she eats. Yes, we still go back to kibbles for a meal once in a blue moon when she has a hard time, but she is eating raw and doing well.
Those are my thoughts....... I have personally taken anti-depressants before, once in my life..... While I think it was necessary, it is not something I want to do again, nor something I take lightly. Likewise, I would try the natural route before going that path with my kitties. If that doesn't work, then I would try prozac.
I know you have tried natural things, but have you tried Rescue Remedy specifically?

Hi Carolina.  I've never tried rescue remedy, but I think I should give it a try befor giving Lucas the Prozac.  I will check if I can buy it online.  I'm taking Lucas to the vet on Tuesday, he is starting to pull the hair off his tail, soon he is going to be completely hairless, it is terrible Carolina.  I know it is due to stress and I know the stress I have is harming him.  I'm thinking of buying 4life stress formula for myself, it has helped me alot before.  I will do it, I need to do it for me and for my boy.

Thankfully my new vet likes natural remedies and he even prescribes them, he didn't want to give Lucas Prozac when he checked him, in fact he hasn't even  mentioned Prozac to me, it was our previous vet.  I will take Lucas to the vet because I know he needs antibiotics, he is even bleeding for bitting himself.

About the raw, I don't think it is the right choice right now for Lucas, I wish I could give it to him because I know it has helped your kitties so much.  But Lucas gets too anxious about things, remember he couldn't pee when I tried to encourage him to eat it ?  And when he saw raw on his plate he got anxious and got worse.  I have him on Natural Balance green peas and salmon and green peas  and duck, he loves it.   I will keep him on that for now.

I will go check the rescue remedy now, thank you so much Carolina

Hugs, Tammy

I think you are spot-on that your own stress is making Lucas worse, but it sounds like he is in a pitiful state despite all sorts of things being tried to avoid Prozac.  If he was mine I'd be more than happy to put him on Prozac and see if it helps.

For yourself, I'm wondering if buying 'stuff' on the Internet is really the way to go.  You buy the stuff and take it, but it does nothing to alter your basic approach to life, or encourage you to make life-style changes that might help reduce and/or manage your stress.

I do know that having an ill cat in itself is stressful, but suspect there is a bit more to it than Lucas for you.  I found the following self-help guide which is by one of the NHS trusts in the UK, so it isn't on a bandwagon to sell you stuff.  I felt it offers plenty of sensible life-style options.

http://www.ntw.nhs.uk/pic/leaflets/Stress A4 2010.pdf

PS - from the Rescue Remedy page, http://www.bachflower.com/Rescue_Remedy.htm:

27% Grape Based Brandy as a preservative

Click to expand...

Personally I'd rather have a gin & tonic!

The funny thing is I don't have major stresses in my life, I like my life, I'm not an unhappy person. what stresses me is that Lucas is sick and the fact that I"m looking for a job and it is hard to find.  The work I do from home  ( I make clothers for collector's dolls) is not as good as it used to be.  I love life  and  I have God, there are no major problems in my life, I  also just moved and that is also affecting Lucas.

I take the 4life because it is good and I've taken it before, I 'don't buy crazy things on the internet without knowing what it is.

I just need to take things easy, but I know avoiding the prozac could be a mistake, and maybe I'm making Lucas suffer by waiting.   I will ask the vet what he thinks and see what is the next step.

You might want to give Lucas the allergy pills every day no matter what, 1/2 capsule sprinkled on his food. Even if he is not allergic to food, and even if it is stress, the pills are anti-inflammatory. So they should relieve his inflamed tissues no matter what the origin of his illness. Also there is vitamin C in there which is really very helpful for his immune system and that should help him tremendously. 

It usually takes a long time for inflammations to go away. Once a cat (or person!) has a reaction to something, the inflammation takes over, no matter whether it began with stress, food, whatever. 

In the case of Curly, his scratching finally did stop and he is fine now!!

I believe it was a reaction to his shots, so this year I spoke to the vet who agreed it was better not to give him his yearly shots, especially since he is not going outside nor is he exposed to any new cats. I have kept him on the same food no matter what, just because I don't want to change anything and risk whatever it was, coming back.

OrientalSlave said:

I think you are spot-on that your own stress is making Lucas worse, but it sounds like he is in a pitiful state despite all sorts of things being tried to avoid Prozac.  If he was mine I'd be more than happy to put him on Prozac and see if it helps.

For yourself, I'm wondering if buying 'stuff' on the Internet is really the way to go.  You buy the stuff and take it, but it does nothing to alter your basic approach to life, or encourage you to make life-style changes that might help reduce and/or manage your stress.

I do know that having an ill cat in itself is stressful, but suspect there is a bit more to it than Lucas for you.  I found the following self-help guide which is by one of the NHS trusts in the UK, so it isn't on a bandwagon to sell you stuff.  I felt it offers plenty of sensible life-style options.

http://www.ntw.nhs.uk/pic/leaflets/Stress A4 2010.pdf

PS - from the Rescue Remedy page, http://www.bachflower.com/Rescue_Remedy.htm:


Personally I'd rather have a gin & tonic!

Click to expand...

Evidently, they have Rescue Remedy PETS, with no alcohol. Ingredients
Active Ingredients: HPUS 5x dilution of Helianthemumnummularium, Clematis vitalba, Impatiens glandulifera, Prunus cerasifera, Ornithogalum umbellatum. Inactive Ingredients: 80% glycerine, 20% water. Directions: Place 4 drops of Rescue Remedy on a treat and offer to your animal. Alternatively, add 4 drops to drinking water.

Momto4kitties said:

About the raw, I don't think it is the right choice right now for Lucas, I wish I could give it to him because I know it has helped your kitties so much.  But Lucas gets too anxious about things, remember he couldn't pee when I tried to encourage him to eat it ?  And when he saw raw on his plate he got anxious and got worse.  I have him on Natural Balance green peas and salmon and green peas  and duck, he loves it.   I will keep him on that for now.

Click to expand...

Ok Tammy..... I have my opinions about this, but they are my opinions.... IMHO, you were stressed about it, and your stressed was passing onto Lucas. Lucas didn't even need to be enticed to eat. That is my point. The entire thing can be done stress free, which is why it will take a very long time. I will not believe that a pea-size amount of raw food in his plate caused him stress. Not if is it just put it there, and forgotten about it. Unless we parents get stressed about it and he senses it - otherwise.... I can't believe. it. It wasn't the raw that was stressing him - and the proof is how Lucas is right now.
But it is a matter of choice, so I will drop the subject.

I wish you the best of luck, to you, Lucas, and all your kitties.....

I would definitely try the rescue remedy. :nod: :cross:

And as to the raw.... instead of thinking of it as trying to get him to switch, think of it as simply offering him an extra treat at meal time. I have to agree with Carolina: just putting the food there wasn't the problem. It was being anxious about his eating. But now that he's eating, and you're not stressed about that, it's a completely different situation. :heart3: Don't try to transition him. Just offer him a tiny bit of raw with each meal - no big deal. He eats it, great, he doesn't, throw it away. :rub:

Oh Tammy, my heart goes out to you and Lucas--poor little boy! I have quite a few questions, so please bear with me...

Has he had lab work done to rule out a health problem as opposed to being mentally stressed?

Has the vet ruled out flea bite allergy (Flea Allergy Dermatitis--it only takes one flea bite), mites, yeast and bacterial infections, ringworm and other fungal infections? Has he ruled out EGC (Eosinophilic Granuloma Complex http://www.vet.uga.edu/vpp/clerk/starnes/index.php )?

Internal:

• What herbs, supplements, homeopathics, etc. do you have him on (be as specific as you can be--with links to the product if you can)?
• How long has he taken each one?
• How often per day?
• How much does he take?
• Are they in pill, capsule, gel, or liquid form?
• What exactly does he eat? Brand and type e.g. chicken, beef, duck, etc.

Environmental:

• What do you use to clean floors, counter tops, etc. with?
• Do you use any sort of powder or other product on carpets before you vacuum? When you clean your carpeting, what is used--or do you know what was used before you moved into your new home (since he got worse after you moved)?
• Do you use any diffusers/air fresheners, or sprays, used regularly in your home? If so, what brands?
• What detergent do you use for washing clothes, etc.?
• Do you (or anyone in family) wear perfume or cologne?
• How about hand soaps?
• Has there been someone that used a chemical to rid your new home of any bugs, etc.? If so, is, or will this be, ongoing?
• What kitty litter do you use? How long?
• Is he an inside only kitty or does he go outside?

If the above can be ruled out, I would definitely seriously consider a balanced raw diet, either one of the pre-made diets, such as Nature's Variety medallions, or home prepared. Diet is the foundation of kitty health, so this certainly needs to be addressed. Please don't stress over this suggestion--baby steps, honey; we'll look at the other stuff first.

Gosh...sorry for all the questions, but I'm hoping it may help to narrow things down a bit. Huge hugs to you and Lucas!

Lucus is FIV+ with discoid lupus. Tammy lives in Puerto Rico (the other end of the island from San Juan), and tried to transition Lucas to raw. He was going through a bad period of stress (and eating) at the time. He's eating Natural Balance green peas and salmon and green peas and duck now (I think only canned?).

Thank you all for the suggestions and help, I know I was stressing Lucas about the raw, I accept that.  I will keep the raw as a future option for my Lucas, I know is the best, I completely agree, but I will try it later on.

I will get the rescue remedy, it is worth a try.  And Barb, I am giving him the 2 docs allergy medicine with his dinner, he doesn't even notice it is there because it has liver flavor, sometimes I buy hills z/d  canned  and also mix it with it.  It is strange that Lucas doesn't notice because he is  a very picky boy and always notices changes in his food.

Lucas had been tested for all you asked about, and everything came back negative.  He doesn't have fleas, mange , fungal or bacterial infections, he just has autoinflicted wouds caused by him pulling his hair.

Hi Jules, I will try to answer the questions:

Internal:

• What herbs, supplements, homeopathics, etc. do you have him on (be as specific as you can be--with links to the product if you can)?- 2 docs allergy defense, chinesse herbal damp heat skin and homeopatic anxiety relief
• How long has he taken each one? for months, like 2 months each
• How often per day? 2 or three times a day
• Are they in pill, capsule, gel, or liquid form? pills and liquid
• What exactly does he eat? Brand and type e.g. chicken, beef, duck, etc. he eats Natural Balance green peas and duck and green  peas and salmon, he also eats hills z/d canned

Environmental:

• What do you use to clean floors, counter tops, etc. with? I use a natural cleaner green works I think is the name
• Do you use any sort of powder or other product on carpets before you vacuum? When you clean your carpeting, what is used--or do you know what was used before you moved into your new home (since he got worse after you moved)? we have no carpets, here in PR we don't normally use carpets on the floor
• Do you use any diffusers/air fresheners, or sprays, used regularly in your home? If so, what brands? I stopped using them once Lucas started getting sick
• What detergent do you use for washing clothes, etc.?I use hypoallergenic all powder since Lucas got sick, believe me I'v tried it all
• Has there been someone that used a chemical to rid your new home of any bugs, etc.? If so, is, or will this be, ongoing? no
• What kitty litter do you use? How long? he is now using scoop away, but he has used lots of hypoallergenic litter, I mean, I've tried them all and since he didn't get better, I got back to scoop away
• Is he an inside only kitty or does he go outside?he never goes outside, he can't be exposed to the sun because he has discoid lupus

Tammy

Tammy, is he still on pred?

You're a woman after my own heart--sounds like you've been doing an amazing job with Lucas and his environment, etc.!

I do have a couple concerns:

Regarding the homeopathic formulas, are you working with a homeopath? If so, might be time to reassess him with a new case taken of his symptoms? I will say that I'm not a huge fan of vet or other formulations that contain numerous homeo remedies as a "one size fits all approach"--maybe he's having an aggravation from one of the components?

Hmmm...there are very few herbs that are safe for kitties, so I'm not too sure about the Chinese herbal product. Do you have a link to this so I could look at what's in it?

Have you checked out Lymphocyte T-Cell Immunomodulator (LTCI) treatment for his FIV? http://tcyte.com/ltci-product-info-feline-leukemia/ Bet you have, but thought I'd mention it.
 

Yes I forgot to mention that LUcas is also FIV+, thank you Laurie  I'm just so focused on the skin problem that I forgot to mention that.  The vet told me the symptoms he has are those of discoid lupus and the stress.

In PR  I don't know if we have a homeopath, there could be some, but they sure are not in our area.

Yes Laurie, he is still on pred, 5mg, sometimes I think he needs more than that, bu I tried 7.5mg for a week and it didn't help at all.  I notice that the pred only helps when he is having the kind of episode he had that time when he was exposed to the sun, that time I gave him 7.5 for a few days and he got better.  But the skin problem doesn't go away with the pred.

 and yes, he is eating canned only NB and sometimes a little z/d canned also.

Tammy

Hey Tammy,

If you would like the info for someone that does paid consultations re homeopathic, herbal, supplements, etc. I can put you in touch with her. She's not in PR, but can still do the consultation(s) and work with you. I've seen her literally take kitties from the brink of death and help them--one gal was in the UK, while she's in the US, and this kitty had a very rare disease that she diagnosed without seeing the kitty--just from symptoms and lab work. A fast response from her that the kitty mom could relay to the specialist was all it took. Just saying that she may be versed in discoid lupus, too. She's fostered and helped hundreds of kitties (if not more, since we're talking since 1997), a lot with FIV/FeLV, and has her own non-foster kitties as well. (She's also the author of a holistic kitty book, Whole Health for Happy Cats [Sandy Arora is her name--she lives and breathes kitties!].)

Oh! Did you see the info about LTCI treatment in my previous post?