Started them on raw tonight :D

Carolina said:

True! :cross: 10* over!

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:lol3:

3/2/12 Friday Late Night Meal.
Fresh turkey thigh.
7 bowls of fresh turkey thigh to start: 7 empty bowls to finish.

OK. Lazlo needed a little WL to get started, and Tuxie needed a little to finish. And I'm still cutting the pieces fairly small for everyone but Shel. But a GREAT meal!

Spooky.... wouldn't eat any of the BG Turkey in the bowl with the little bit of fresh turkey, which she didn't touch. I gave her Wellness chicken. She ate 1.2 oz. Her total intake for the day was 5.2 oz. So she had good meals.... but she's eating mostly canned, and in 4 meals.

...there always has to be that ONE. :lol3:

Tomorrow:
NM chicken
Fresh lamb (which I have to get) and beef kidney.... :cross:
Fresh pork

LDG said:

:lol3:
3/2/12 Friday Late Night Meal.
Fresh turkey thigh.
7 bowls of fresh turkey thigh to start: 7 empty bowls to finish.

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Carolina said:

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OMG HYSTERICAL, Carolina :rofl: :spit: I SECOND THE ABOVE, Laurie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Great news and wonderful reports from you. AND YES - there always has to be that ONE :frusty:. BUT, wow, Spooky really IS eating much more food :bigthumb: Let's just keep trying with the ONES :lol3: :rub: .... Turkey thigh seems to be a hit with yours and Carolina's. Will have to add that one into the mix over at my place now. A tougher meat than the Chicken breast.... more chewing needed

Oh Carolina!

3/3/12 Saturday AM meal.

NM Chicken.

I gave Spooky 0.5oz with nothing else. She jumped down from her eating spot. :lol3: I called her back to dinner. Added WL chicken. Nope. Added dehydrated chicken liver. She took a few licks and chewed a touch. That was good, but that was it. :lol3: So I gave her Wellness chicken & herring. She ate 1.2oz.

Shel licked the meal - that was it. No toppers could get him to eat it.
Flowerbelle ate 0.4oz.
Lazlo ate about 3/4 (his had slippery elm and miralax mixed in).
Tux ate 0.7oz.

As I have the pork dethawing, I gave Shel, Tux, and Flowerbelle fresh pork (even though it's on the menu for the late night meal, it's the only fresh meat option I had). They ate it, of course.

I think I'm just going to have to go full Frankenprey. So what the heck do I do with all this ground stuff? I should probably just keep feeding it to Chum, Billy, Ming Loy, and Lazlo. Laz isn't in love, but it's a good way to get his slippery elm into him. And I think I'm going to have to start crushing his sucralfate. It's a big pill, and when he has hairballs, he throws them up undigested, so they're not doing anything. And it can be taken with food, so.....

I really don't know what to do. I guess it'd be 3 cats on frankenprey, 4 cats not, and Spooky. :dk: WHAT a PIA. I can't just substitute fresh meat for the ground meal - the balance of organs & calcium would be all wrong. And if they don't want meat with calcium (eggshell) smooshed into it? :dk: I'm reasonably comfortable with the idea of introducing bones to Shel and Tux. But Flowerbelle? She's not very good at chewing yet. Well - she chews fine, just small pieces, and she opens her mouth so wide to crunch, the food often falls out a couple of times first... :lol3: ...and then once she gets it in her mouth, she often just swallows it. IDK if I'm OK with that with bones.

UGH.

You know, in reading all the stuff on AC's resource thread, it appears lots of people go directly into Frankenprey from canned and skip the ground meat part.  I was wondering about that...why we're all starting with the ground?  Especially since the kitties seem to enjoy the Frankenprey so much better?  But, ground surely is easier to give pills with .  'Course, you can always use Lauren's trick of putting pills in S & C's slightly rehydrated treats. 

Also, why doesn't anyone have sardines as a once a week meal?  I recall reading that fish or at least fish oil is needed for extra Omega 3s.  Did I just miss that you Frankenprey folks are doing that?

I'm feeding sardines once a week. It's not to be fed as a replacement for a meal, just as a supplemental thing - like a treat.

As to going directly to FP.... no reason not to. You just have to take the time to figure out the right proportion of meat/liver/othersecreting organ/bones (or bone supplement). And if they kitties don't like some of the organs, or can't chew bones, or won't eat the calcium supplement if smooshed into the meat, they're not getting balanced nutrition. Most need to learn to chew, though cutting up the meat into smaller chunks works for that. But getting them to eat bones... is something not everyone is comfortable with.

And I have no problem pilling my cats. I just shove the pill down their throats (properly LOL). I just have a number of things that are loose powder I need to give them. Carolina suggested I make the mix into a slurry with some water, and add WL chicken or powdered liver. I keep forgetting to try it, but that's a good idea. :nod:

I did commercial because I wanted to use the HPP foods first, and I needed to get comfortable with just the process of feeding raw. :lol3: They probably would have liked fresh cut up meat right away... maybe the organs too? :dk: We'll find out about the kidney this evening.

3/3/12 Saturday Dinner.

OK - WHERE is my brain? Shelly threw up beef when I tried to introduce that. Ming Loy threw up the calves liver when I bought it just to see.

So exactly why did I not start with a small amount - like one small slice of beef kidney, rather than the full 0.5 oz in a meal? :dk:

All-in-all it went very well, I must say. And it seems that Shel is the only one that couldn't keep it down. :cross: I guess because it wasn't the only thing in her tummy, Mingle was able to keep it down, unlike the TINY slice of beef liver I gave her last week? :dk:

I just know I'm not taking this gamble again when the next organ meal rolls around. :lol3:

Dinner was roughly 0.5oz (big kitties got more, little kitties got less) of beef kidney and the balance of the meal was fresh lamb.

Flowerbelle jumped on the counter - but instead of trying to eat the food, she tried to get around to see what was in the other dishes. :lol3: So rather than even trying to put the bowls down without toppers, I sprinkled dehydrated chicken liver and THEN WL chicken on everyone's kidney.

Spooky, predictably, ate none of either the kidney or the lamb. What was surprising was that she wouldn't eat the lamb even when I put it in a new bowl - and it had not touched the kidney. :dk: Even since her overall raw boycott, she usually gobbles up lamb. So after everyone else ate, she got Wellness Turkey & Salmon in the bathroom. She ate almost 2 oz. though.

Billy seemed confused about what was in his bowl. I took a piece of lamb out and set it next to the bowl, and he ate it. Then he dug in - and ate the kidney first. Odd.

Lazlo just didn't look happy about what was in the bowl. I removed his bowl, sprinkled some beef liver over everything and put it back. He tucked in, but only ate about half of each the lamb and the kidney. I let it go at that.

Flowerbelle ate a couple of pieces of lamb and tried a couple of small pieces (I mean SMALL) of kidney. She wouldn't eat any more until I put her lamb in a different dish.

Shelly, Tuxedo and Ming Loy emptied their bowls.

Chumley took the kidney pieces out and dropped most of them next to the bowl. :fail: When he was "done," I put them back, covered them with powdered beef liver, and he ate them all.

Shelly then promptly threw it all up.

I followed Ming Loy around for a while expecting the same.... and just kept an eye on everyone after that, wondering what in the heck possessed me to give them all the full amount, rather than working up to it, and WHY - when some didn't want to finish - I tried to encourage them to? :scratch:

BUT so far, so good. Everyone other than Shel seems to be keeping it down. :cross:

*******************************************

I'm currently recalculating the feeding schedule to accommodate Shel and Tux being full (boneless) frankenprey. I'll see tonight if they'll eat meat with eggshell stuck on it (powdered eggshell, I'm just planning to put it on the bottom of the dish and smoosh the meat onto it, so it sticks to the meat). I'm going to start with less than they'd need, since they did have commercial this morning.

This process definitely gets so much more complicated as we go on :lol3: It makes meal prep so much more time-consuming also when they are not all eating the same thing :slant: I guess (once you use up all of the ground raw meat you have on hand) you could use the rehydrated FD S&C products to add the kitties supplements and Lazlo's pill. Don't all of your kitties love the rehydrated raw :dk: That is if you go to all FP, then you could use the S&C for supplements, etc. I am sorry the cat's are not liking the ground raw so much.... I guess once you go FP - it is hard to go back :lol3:

I also notice too that when the cats get the fresh raw chicken - they just don't know HOW to chew.... You would think it would just be natural for them to know how to tear and chew the meat. Perkin's can't figure that one out - yet. :lol3: Walden and Wendall have chewing down pat though. :rub: Wish they could ALL be that easy

Feralvr said:

This process definitely gets so much more complicated as we go on :lol3: It makes meal prep so much more time-consuming also when they are not all eating the same thing :slant: I guess (once you use up all of the ground raw meat you have on hand) you could use the rehydrated FD S&C products to add the kitties supplements and Lazlo's pill. Don't all of your kitties love the rehydrated raw :dk: That is if you go to all FP, then you could use the S&C for supplements, etc. I am sorry the cat's are not liking the ground raw so much.... I guess once you go FP - it is hard to go back :lol3:
I also notice too that when the cats get the fresh raw chicken - they just don't know HOW to chew.... You would think it would just be natural for them to know how to tear and chew the meat. Perkin's can't figure that one out - yet. :lol3: Walden and Wendall have chewing down pat though. :rub: Wish they could ALL be that easy

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Yeah.... I guess if they are not eating the same things, it does complicate things..... But I have to say, aside from the day the meat got here, which did took hours, and some psychological trauma to get that kidney ready :lol3::lol3::lol3: Meals are FAR, FAR faster here now on frankerprey than ground - it is ridiculous to see, really.... and easy to prepare also.... They are all in ziplock bags, for both Hope and Bugsy - I just warm that up and put on their plates, and it is literally gone in seconds.
When it is chicken, pork or turkey - essentially the muscle meats, the meat just vanishes.
The cuts are big, as I want them to rip and chew - they are little filets, really. Today I put their plates down, and went to put Lucky's food - by the time I filled her kibble plate, set on the floor, and wet back to check on them, they were already done and laying by their plates. It takes no WL, no enticement, nothing. Serve and go.
The way I taught them to chew, was to put the meat on their mouths, and hold it for them - I already started with big pieces - not little ones.... But I would hold it so they would chew and eat it slowly chew more, eat more..... and like that they got the hang of it. Next time the meat was already on the plate, and they were set to go - they had never chewed on meat, and I never gave them little pieces.... Only of the heart I think, as I wasted them to try it. :nod:

mrsgreenjeens said:

You know, in reading all the stuff on AC's resource thread, it appears lots of people go directly into Frankenprey from canned and skip the ground meat part.  I was wondering about that...why we're all starting with the ground?  Especially since the kitties seem to enjoy the Frankenprey so much better?  But, ground surely is easier to give pills with .  'Course, you can always use Lauren's trick of putting pills in S & C's slightly rehydrated treats. 

Also, why doesn't anyone have sardines as a once a week meal?  I recall reading that fish or at least fish oil is needed for extra Omega 3s.  Did I just miss that you Frankenprey folks are doing that?

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Sally, I think because it is an easier transition fro them - at least for the ones who are used to eat canned..... The texture is very similar - they can associate raw with food better..... If they never ate raw before, and you give them a piece of meat and try to make them chew..... a lot of them will not eat right off the bat. I know Bugsy and Hope do love it NOW - but I am fairly certain that had I gone straight to frankerprey, it would had been a much harder transition for them - they had NO idea meat was food..... Bugsy would not eat a piece of chicken.... I had tried before.... for him that was anything but food. But after him being eating ground for a while, it was a more natural transition into the cut pieces.... Just my findings....

You may be right...guess it depends on the cat.  Sven already loves eating cut up pieces of any meat I have given him so far.  I think he could go straight to FP, IF I knew what I was doing  . The other, not so much .  BUT, my babies don't really like pate, so I'm a little concerned about them liking the ground raw .  Guess I'll find out as soon as my NM arrives.

Sally, it's really not difficult to figure the percentages of what they need to eat for Frankenprey. Just a simple spreadsheet, really. ESPECIALLY if going boneless at first. :nod:

Speaking of which... I tried sprinkling the calcium on last night. It's actually such a SMALL amount of eggshell per meal (1/32 of a teaspoon for a one ounce meal; 3/64 of a teaspoon for a 1.5 ounce meal), sprinkling it on worked just fine. Meat is sticky enough. They all ate it, no problem!

Now... I don't think I'm going to add it to each meal, because my kitties have tended toward constipation. At this point, I'll probably keep an eye for soft poop, and adjust accordingly. :nod:


3/3/12 Saturday Late Night Meal

Fresh pork!

Everyone had empty bowls.
Spooky didn't come when called for dinner. She didn't show up until 11:30pm, in fact. I offered her some pork - she didn't want it. So she had Wellness chicken. She ate 0.6 oz. I realized - she may still have been full, as she ate about 2oz that afternoon. :dk: Her intake for the day was 5.0oz.


3/4/12 Sunday AM Meal

HT Pork & Duck. (70%/30%). I gave Shel just the pork. He picked at it. Tux ate almost none. I have to move those boys to full time FP. :nod:

I'd move everyone to full time FP at this point, but I just have WAY too much commercial ground here to waste it all.

Shel and Tux ended up having WL chicken.

I offered Spooky just HT ground pork. She ate 0.5 oz! I didn't offer her anything else.

I still haven't tried making some kind of slurry for the slippery elm mix for Chum and Laz. But as we have months of ground to work through.... I have plenty of time to experiment with something for once they're FT FP. :lol3:

....and I've just decided Sunday will be the Sardine day.

So!  Where on earth did you find a measuring spoon as small as 1/32 of a teaspoon (just kidding).

BTW. I know it's easy to figure out the amounts to feed of FP, as a matter of fact, I think there's even a spreadsheet on one of the resource threads that'll compute ir for you...all you need to do is fill in your cats' weight.  I THINK I saw this.  BUT, I  really don't want to be feeding one FP and the others something else, so will see how it goes to try to get them all eating the same thing (mama's choice) everyday. 

LAURIE!!!!!!!!!!! Your kitties are doing fanstastic - I am so happy for you, sweetie... Even Spooky is eating well ...ok.... not all raw but she is eating well . You do have time to figure out the slippery elm slurry :lol3: and do have a lot of ground to get through. You could even still use the S&C rehydrated for mixing supplements in - make it a smooshy treat - ya know. Just might work when you do get to FT FP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am happy that all is going so well :rub:

The S&C rehydrated... I accidentally ordered beef. I need to call them and exchange. Ugh. I hate that. :frusty: But that is a GREAT idea!

3/4/12 Dinner

Tonight was chicken gizzard and liver. Now - they all love dehydrated chicken liver. :nod: But the don't all love fresh chicken liver. Because of the kidney experience, I only gave them half of the amount of liver they're supposed to have. For those who finished it and seemed fine, I gave them the rest (Flowerbelle, Chumley, Billy, Ming Loy, Lazlo).

I offered Spooky hers - she had no interest, of course.
Lazlo looked at me like - you want me to eat this? But as soon as I put on some WL, he dove in. :lol3: He didn't finish the gizzards. I think he just got tired of chewing. :lol3:
Shelly dove right in! But there was NOTHING I could do to get him to eat the liver. :dk:
Flowerbelle took a long time to finish with all that chewing, but she slowly worked her way through the entire dish!!!!!
Tuxedo went right at it. He needed a little help to finish the liver, and didn't eat quite all the gizzard. And then about five minutes after eating threw everything up.
Chumley was funny again. He removed a bunch of the gizzard from his dish. But when I put it back in, he ate all of it but one piece. I substituted it for two smaller pieces, and he ate them! :dk:

So again - I'm going to have to say, overall a success. Shelly wouldn't eat the liver. Tux and Laz didn't finish the gizzard. And Tux threw everything up. But I think he just needs an even smaller amount of liver to start, I guess. But with only one kitty throwing up, and most everyone finishing all the strange food - I'm happy!

mrsgreenjeens said:

So!  Where on earth did you find a measuring spoon as small as 1/32 of a teaspoon :lol3: (just kidding).

BTW. I know it's easy to figure out the amounts to feed of FP, as a matter of fact, I think there's even a spreadsheet on one of the resource threads that'll compute ir for you...all you need to do is fill in your cats' weight.  I THINK I saw this.  BUT, I  really don't want to be feeding one FP and the others something else, so will see how it goes to try to get them all eating the same thing (mama's choice) everyday. 

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Here you go, Sally! They're not marked as 1/32 and 1/64, but at least the 1/16, 1/32, and 1/64 ARE those measurements. They're marked "pinch" (1/16), "smidgen" (1/32), and "drop" (1/64).

LDG said:

Here you go, Sally! They're not marked as 1/32 and 1/64, but at least the 1/16, 1/32, and 1/64 ARE those measurements. They're marked "pinch" (1/16), "smidgen" (1/32), and "drop" (1/64).

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WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT!!!!!! Here ya go Sally :scratch: I need/want those little cuties too :lol3: ... pinch, smidgen and drop..... how adorable are those and SO CHEAP!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for the info.

LDG said:

The S&C rehydrated... I accidentally ordered beef. I need to call them and exchange. Ugh. I hate that. :frusty: But that is a GREAT idea!
!

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Do you mean the Surf/Turf Dog??? or the cat freeze-dried beef. Because my cat's do perfectly fine on the Surf/Turf freeze-dried dog patties It is Beef and Salmon and was well taken by the cats. It was the freeze-dried cat Beef cubes they did not do well with I bet you cat's would love the Surf/Turf :nod:

Yup, the cat beef cubes. I THOUGHT I ordered the chicken, but must have hit the wrong button.