Declaw vs retrain a 14-year old cat

My vet refuses to declaw under any circumstance.

IF your friend insists on declawing the cat, ask her to consider a tendonectomy. Now i have only researched it, bt from what I can tell it is a lot more humane.

Tiny little incision, no amputations, sutures

Excerpt from site: http://www.pet-dog-cat-supply-store.com/tendonectomy.php

"This surgical procedure is gaining popularity with owners who are concerned about the recovery period with a conventional declaw. Here, a ligament is cut on the underside of each toe to prevent grasping motions. The claws remain but the cat cannot extend them.

Because the incisions needed for this procedure are so small, the recovery is minimal. No bandages, no special litter, no blood spotting. There are no stitches to remove and the tiny incisions are closed in surgical glue."

They can't flex their claws, so they can't whittle them down - and will require life time nail trimming.

it is not something I would do, but if she is insistent on declawing and you cant persuade her otherwise, then suggest she find a vet that offers this.

http://www.pet-dog-cat-supply-store.com/tendonectomy.php

Nebula said:

IF your friend insists on declawing the cat, ask her to consider a tendonectomy. Now i have only researched it, bt from what I can tell it is a lot more humane.

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Not more humane at all, just easier for the human doing this to their cat to rationalize it as so. As I posted above:

Sugarcatmom said:

From this website (which you should beg her to read): http://www.pawproject.org/faqs/

 Is declawing with a laser better? What about tendonectomy?

Tendonectomy  or Tenectomy  is a procedure in which the tendons in the toes are severed. The cat still has its claws, but is unable to control them. This procedure does not necessarily protect people from being scratched, and it is associated with a high incidence of abnormal claw growth and muscle atrophy. In a 1998JAVMA  article, Jankowski, et al.,concluded that "owners should be aware of the high complication rate for both [tendonectomy and declawing] procedures and of the need for constant trimming of claws of cats that have undergone tenectomy."

Jankowski  also reported that 55% of the cats having tendonectomy were still able to scratch with their claws to some degree, and that 10% of the cat's owners had the cats declawed after the tendonectomy procedure for this reason.

In March 2003, the AVMA  stated that tendonectomy is "not recommended."

Dr. Wendy Feaga,  a Maryland veterinarian, wrote in Veterinary Medicine  (May 1998), regarding tendonectomy, "I hope this cruel practice is stopped immediately." She describes a post-tendonectomized cat that "had badly arthritic toes and did not move around comfortably. The toenails were thick and disfigured, and the toes were painful on palpation. I was horrified."

Robert Goldman, DVM,  says, "Veterinarians who recommend tendonectomy for cats will tell their clients that they have to trim the cat's claws at least every week. If the client is going to have to trim the nails every week, why not just trim the nails and avoid the tendonectomy procedure all together?"

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Nebula said:

They can't flex their claws, so they can't whittle them down - and will require life time nail trimming.

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So in that case, why not just go with the nail trimming and skip the mutilation? 

Whoops, double post.

From the other side of the fence, I know very many very happy well adjusted declawed cats, and believe that bandage and stitch free laser declaw surgery using medical glue and modern pain killers minimizes any trauma to the animal.  

However, I would absolutely not declaw a 14 year old cat.   For a lifetime now it has become accustomed to using its claws and is not likely to readily adapt to change, causing stress.   A 14 year old cat is not going to bounce back and heal in 24-48hrs like a little 4-8month growing kitten, increasing the chance for complications and prolonged downtime.   Anesthesia is also required, and again that carries risks and from what I've read is increased in cats that old and should be avoided when possible. 

I would anticipate that an old cat that has lived an entire lifetime outdoors will also be even more destructive indoors, and is not likely to take to training.   If he's cranky, he's also likely going to be like my friends cat that pretty much tried to murder us for even contemplating clipping her nails yet alone putting on soft paws.  

I'm usually against having outdoor cats, as I think its far too dangerous for one, but this is an old cat so used to that routine now I'd just let him live out his last years as he enjoys. 

If budget isn't a concern, they have very small GPS cat collars now, otherwise less expensive would be a radio frequency one like the loc8tor so you can at least cruise the neighborhood and track down mr adventure kitty assuming he's not going miles away.

Wow I hope she doesn't do it! Poor Shadow. I'm glad she has a friend like you, who is giving her lots of reasons NOT to do it. 

Sugarcatmom said:

Not more humane at all, just easier for the human doing this to their cat to rationalize it as so. As I posted above:


So in that case, why not just go with the nail trimming and skip the mutilation? 

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I agree wholeheartedly and would never ever put a cat through that.  But I also know that once an adult has made up their mind to do something despite all rational judgement and compassion and facts otherwise, then you do damage control.

I.e as an example - no kids should not be having sex. You teach them, tell them the reasons not to have premarital sex- and they do it anyway no matter what anyone says - they plan on it. Providing them birth control (which I know, a lot of controversy over providing kids bc) but-- I know that teens have already made up their mind to have the sex, so might as well do it safely to prevent unwanted pregnancy.

Of course the best scenario and outcome would be to persuade the OP's friend differently, but if they have made up their mind and are going to do it no matter what anyone says, then it should be a "lesser" approach. I am not condoning this cruel and horrible surgery on a cat and I wish it would all be outlawed.

And youre right, trim the nails and avoid the surgery.

 Oh and I might add that Smokie came to me declawed they declawed him as a kitten poor guy. Anyway, he is very aggressive with his teeth at times, where as Bandit is not declawed and won't be, he is aggressive at times but at least he feels in control with his claws;

I think what this situation has taught me more than anything is that even after owning a cat 14 years, you can't really presume to know what s/he is really like.  According to my friend, Shadow has become extremely affectionate and is following them around, loving on them, etc.  Maybe he wanted to come in all this time, I don't know.  She says it's like discovering a whole new cat.  I think that's good news!  But time will tell I guess.

Originally I had the same thought as Ducman - just let him live outside, it's where he's been for 14 years.  My cats at my parents' house are outdoor cats so while all my future cats will likely be indoors, I don't think it's necessarily a death sentence.  But my parents are in a rural area with lots of woods and trees to climb and play in, and the cats don't wander - with Shadow, it's in a townhouse community where the toys are cars and other people's yards and windows, and the house is at a really busy and somewhat dangerous intersection (it's right across the road from me), and this past time he was more than three miles away.  Craigslist isn't always reliable.  So I am kinda relieved to have him indoors, especially for her sake because she, understandably, lost her crap both times he was lost.  If she does end up letting him back outside I will definitely mention the GPS collar.  He is chipped but of course the person who finds him has to catch him & transport him & make sure it's a shelter that knows to check microchips.

Laurie, I think the concern with the SoftPaws at the vet is that Shadow would have to be sedated, according to my friend anyway, due to biting and scratching.  Plus the cost, I'm sure.

The vet told her the surgery was "probably pointless at his age" and suggested Feliway, which I also suggested although she told me yesterday she's not sure he needs it because of the above temperament change.  Right now she's -- -- letting him scratch furniture she doesn't care about.   I may surreptitiously purchase some scratching boards and pretend a friend gave them to me and offer "extras" to her.  She's taken most of what I've said pretty well but I still have the idea she's feeling defensive, especially lately because a few of her facebook friends called her a "crazy cat lady" - LOL!  I take it as a compliment (because I know it's not true) but it really bothers her.  (And honestly I see her point - people who wax poetic about their dogs and post pictures don't get called "crazy dog ladies" - but I digress.)  So I just want to be gentle and not throw so much in her face that she rejects everything outright because she feels like I'm attacking her.

I've really, really appreciated all the counsel y'all have provided in this thread!  Thanks so much!

cloud_shade said:

Even if she won't invest in furniture-style scratching posts, please encourage her to get cardboard scratchers.  They make flat ones and angled ones (they look like a ramp).  Most are under $20, and some are under $10.  Sisal-wrapped boards are another option.  Cats need to scratch, so providing someplace that's okay for them to scratch is essential to protecting the furniture.

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Mollipop refused to use any kind of furniture-style scratching posts whatsoever. She does use the cardboard scratchers, especially the one that looks like a ramp.....I think it helped when I sprinkled catnip on the ramp and she was old enough to enjoy the nip. She uses the ramp cardboard now pretty much all the time, although every once in a while I'll catch her using the carpet right outside the bedroom door. But that's not that often...she's really good.

Tabby, OTOH, is a terror on paws. She has shredded the bottom of the couch and is working on the living room chair, too. We have the furniture swathed in double-sided sticky tape, so she just looks for different places to scratch. We have bitter apple spray, too, that we're using. We're going to get a SSSScat at PetSmart this weekend because we don't know what else to do. We keep working with her, but she's not easily trained, that's for sure.

The other five cats are declawed....I've never tried to hide it on this board. I have no excuse, other than my own ignorance. They've all been fine with no issues or litter box problems and we're lucky that they are. But we will never declaw another cat.
 

I've ignored this thread for days now because just the title freaks me out, and I don't need to go looking for things to upset me. There is plenty of stuff is around everywhere, all the time, in my real life and in the media that causes me distress. But here I am now.

Please prevent your friend from doing this cruel thing to her cat.

The answer, the permanent answer, is so easy and cheap. I
don't understand why more don't use it and recommend it.

I have now trained 7 cats to not scratch my furniture, at all, by using strips of Sticky Paws tape, made for this purpose. Don't get another brand, it won't stick well. Buy it at Petco or Amazon. Buy a roll of it (about $15). Vacuum the area where applying before you attach it. You only put it on the areas of the furniture where the cat likes to scratch.

You leave it on a couple months (for my very stubborn Harlow, I had to leave it on about 5 months). You must provide a variety of appropriate scratching surfaces as an alternative.

This will work! All 7 cats I trained this way were adults. They simply don't like the feel of the tape.

Declawing is violent, inhumane, and wrong.

Robin

bastetservant said:

I've ignored this thread four days now because just the title freaks me out, and I don't need to go looking for things to upset me. Plenty of stuff is around everywhere, ask the time, that causes me distress.
Please prevent your friend from doing this cruel thing to her cat.
The answer, the permanent answer, is so east and cheap. I don't understand why more don't use it and recommend it.
I have now trained 7 cats to not scratch my furniture, at all, by using strips of Sticky Paws tape, made for this purpose. Don't get another brand, it won't stick well. Buy it at Petco or Amazon. Vacuum the area where applying before you attach it. You only put it on the areas of the furniture where the cat likes to scratch.
You leave it on a couple months (for my very stubborn Harlow, I had to leave it on about 5 months). You must provide a variety of appropriate scratching surfaces as an alternative.
This will work! All 7 cats I trained this way were adults. They simply don't like the feel of the tape.
Declawing is violent, inhumane, and wrong.
Robin

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Well, I can't prevent my friend from doing anything because she's an adult and Shadow belongs to her.  But I have spoken with her at length since she brought him in five days ago and he's doing well, and she doesn't seem to be considering a declaw any longer.  The Sticky Paws is definitely a good solution and I will be sure to mention that to her!  Thanks!

bastetservant said:

I have now trained 7 cats to not scratch my furniture, at all, by using strips of Sticky Paws tape, made for this purpose. 

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There are of course products available for training, and its good to bring them up, but they also aren't appropriate for all damage issues caused by a cat, especially one used to being outside its entirely life that may become quite frustrated and restless confined indoors.    Wesley destroyed a $480 LED LCD panel by clawing at the screen, and surely you aren't going to be putting strips of sticky paws tape on it, anymore than you would on curtains, or cover an entire leather couch if the cat happens to like the feel of that particular material.    The idea that all cats without exception are highly trainable with a single product, especially in their late 'golden years', is an obvious fallacy.  

One other point though regarding the old cat not being able to learn new tricks is that if he's not working out indoors (say eliminating inappropriately or whatever), you can't return a declawed cat outdoors.  

Nebula said:

I.e as an example - no kids should not be having sex. You teach them, tell them the reasons not to have premarital sex- and they do it anyway no matter what anyone says  - they plan on it.

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Got the same spiel from mom, didn't work not because of stupidity, but because of differences in priorities.   Everything was heard, put on the balance of "pros" and "cons" and yeah the "pros" are very compelling! The scare tactics from the school backfired though since it quickly became obvious to a rational educated person that these were totally blown out of proportion, trying to convince us we'd all get AIDS for example when the statistical probability of catching such an STD from another 16 year old while wearing protection is virtually impossible.   Lesson learned that applies to ALL things though when making your argument is not to exaggerate "cons" else its all dismissed as unreliable evidence. 

Ducman69 said:

From the other side of the fence, I know very many very happy well adjusted declawed cats, and believe that bandage and stitch free laser declaw surgery using medical glue and modern pain killers minimizes any trauma to the animal.  

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There IS no other side of the fence, IMO, as to declawing ANY cat ever. Please don't turn this thread into a debate - IMO forum would be the place.

bastetservant said:

I have now trained 7 cats to not scratch my furniture, at all, by using strips of Sticky Paws tape, made for this purpose. Don't get another brand, it won't stick well. Buy it at Petco or Amazon. Buy a roll of it (about $15). Vacuum the area where applying before you attach it. You only put it on the areas of the furniture where the cat likes to scratch.
You leave it on a couple months (for my very stubborn Harlow, I had to leave it on about 5 months). You must provide a variety of appropriate scratching surfaces as an alternative.
This will work! All 7 cats I trained this way were adults. They simply don't like the feel of the tape.
Declawing is violent, inhumane, and wrong.
Robin

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Good advice, Robin .... Sticky paws worked for me too with Walden. He was scratching up the box spring mattress in the foster room. Not any more . He is a perfect boy and uses the many scratching posts throughout the house :bigthumb:

All the cats I trained with Sticky Paws had been strays.  One was at least 10 years old.   None had any elimination problems either.  They all came through the shelter, and though not trained about where to scratch or not to, cats understand about litter pans with no training at all.  It is important, however, to confine a cat new to a home in a small room with a litter pan, and other comforts, for the first few days.  This is necessary for a number of reasons.

In the past I  took in a stray, straight from outside, with immediate understanding of the use of a litter pan.

As I said, you don't put the tape all over the furniture.  Just the vertical or horizontal places that they like to scratch on a particular piece of furniture, which is readily apparent. 

Very quickly, they turn to more appropriate places for the scratching activity.

For a LCD TV, I would think one or more of those air spray motion detector gadgets (can't think of name) would work. And Sticky Paws strips have been used successfully on curtains.

There is never cause, or good reason to declaw a cat, under any circumstances.  It cannot be justified.  One can not make an adult do anything.  But one can strongly state the reasons why you feel the way you do about something, and make it clear how you will feel about it if they ignore your advice.  

Personally, I could not be friends with someone who declawed their cat.  To me, it is maiming.

Robin

Ducman69 said:

  Lesson learned that applies to ALL things though when making your argument is not to exaggerate "cons" else its all dismissed as unreliable evidence. 

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Then I guess you haven't learned your lesson and failed "The Declawing Class" bigtime..... There are NO PRO'S to declawing a cat, IMO..... So, friends , EXAGGERATE THE CON'S all you want. You get a GOLD STAR and a big fat A++++++ from teacher The reliable evidence is stacked up high against declawing any cat and must not be dismissed if you have the cat's best welfare at heart......

bastetservant said:

There is never cause, or good reason to declaw a cat, under any circumstances.  It cannot be justified.  One can not make an adult do anything.  But one can strongly state the reasons why you feel the way you do about something, and make it clear how you will feel about it if they ignore your advice.  

Personally, I could not be friends with someone who declawed their cat.  To me, it is maiming.

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I'm sorry that I'm not quite measuring up because I'm still talking to and associating with my friend even though she was considering a declaw.  As I stated, I spoke to her several times, shared links, pleaded on Shadow's behalf, etc.  I think people are more receptive to counsel and information when coming from someone who is a friend and who they don't feel is attacking them.  I think I've handled the situation pretty well but I appreciate that you may disagree.  I don't really want to get into a mudsling on the internet over this.  

Well, she hasn't done it yet. So, I'd still be trying to influence her, in the calmest, most respectul way possible, of course. But letting her know how you feel about it, and how you will feel if she goes through with declawing her cat. That, at least, is what I would do. And no, I would no longer associate with a person who went ahead and declawed their cat, when they had been presented with the information on the harm it is and what good alternatives there are. To me, that would be condoning animal abuse. And there is no human behavior I think lower.

I don't know why you are taking this personally. No one is saying anything negative about you. You brought up a topic, asking for opinions. This is a topic that many of us here have strong feelings about. The Cat Site is against declawing. If the view was different than that, I wouldn't be here.

You have to do what you think is right. I've stated what I think is right and what I would do. I'm not slinging mud. I'm just stating what I would be compelled to do if I we're in this situation.

Robin

Quote:

bastetservant said:

Personally, I could not be friends with someone who declawed their cat.  To me, it is maiming.

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I have heard the same from crusaders against male circumcision to abortion to teaching evolution to vegetarianism you name it.   I'd be curious to hear what possible benefit one believes could come from that.  Has not returning a friend's calls for example ever successfully changed that person's mind about the topic?   Anna, I would hope you don't take the advice and end the friendship whether or not she obeys your wishes.

Originally Posted by Feralvr

There IS no other side of the fence, IMO, as to declawing ANY cat ever. Please don't turn this thread into a debate - IMO forum would be the place.

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Uhm, yes there is, about any controversial issue.  In the real world, people don't always agree with you.   Nor is answering the question posed very directly off-topic.   If you don't want a debate, then don't debate, and allow people to voice their opinion on the specifically directed question of "What do you think? Should I encourage her to abandon her plans for declaw?" and leave it at that.   In fact, considering that my opinion is very much against declawing a 14 year old cat, I have to wonder why you're so motivated to try and censor me.

Please return to the original thread topic, folks!

If you wish to discuss whether friendships should be terminated over principles, start a new thread in IMO.