TheCatSite.com › Forums › Our Feline Companions › Cat Health › Lucas is allergic to hills z/d canned, but not to the dry, I have evidence!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Lucas is allergic to hills z/d canned, but not to the dry, I have evidence!

post #1 of 27
11/17/11 at 9:36am
Thread Starter 

 

When I first brought this here and to my vet, there was dibelief that Lucas could be allergic to Hills z/d ultra allergen free canned, but  not allergic to hills z/d Low Allergen dry, and it really was surprising that he could be allergic to that food.

 

So, he has been on the z/d dry  since November 6 and his allergies had all cleared out.  he has been sick lately, but not related to his food allergies and I'm happy to say he is doing much better today.

 

I took pictures of his belly on Monday, the allergies always starts on his belly, he gets a rash.  So take a look at his belly on Monday,, he was on z/d dry, the belly looks perfect:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f328/Tammy28/PB163046640x480.jpg

 

 

then I gave him z/d canned because he liked it so much and I was thinking maybe it wasn't that food that caused him allergies, I mean, it is ultra allergen free. So , here is Lucas today, you see how the rash is starting? 

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f328/Tammy28/PB173048640x480.jpg

 

He is allergic to it. I won't give it to him anymore, he is very allergic to chicken, and I know this is hydrolized chicken,but maybe even that affects my boy, he is very sensitive.

 

I posted this because I think it could help someone else who is going through the same problem with their kitty, they can be allergic to hypoallergenic food.

 

Tammy

 

 

 

 

Reply
post #2 of 27
11/17/11 at 11:01am
Tammy, I see the difference in his belly and the rash starting frown.gif. I am sure it is possible for a cat to be allergic to "hyopallergenic" food. agree.gif It could be one ingredient that trigger's the rashes. Just more hugs.gifhugs.gifhugs.gif to you and more rub.gifrub.gifrub.gifrub.gif to Lucas. vibes.gifvibes.gifvibes.gifvibes.gif
Reply
post #3 of 27
11/17/11 at 11:15am

Considering the 2 products have different ingredients, it's not that surprising (and also exposes the whole sham that is the "prescription" diet concept).

 

Here are the main ingredients in the dry Z/D:

 

Brewers Rice, Hydrolyzed Chicken Liver, Hydrolyzed Chicken, Soybean Oil (preserved with BHA, propyl gallate and citric acid), Powdered Cellulose, ...

 

And here are the ingredients in the canned Z/D:

 

Hydrolyzed Chicken Liver, Water, Corn Starch, Soybean Oil, Powdered Cellulose,....

 

Perhaps Lucas is having an issue with the corn starch?

 

Reply
post #4 of 27
11/17/11 at 3:10pm

Our Chumley had a problem with the Brewer's Rice in the dry food.  When I went through the ingredients last year, I remembered that being the only difference.  But looks to me like Corn Starch is the problem for your Lucas!  The proteins are the same, so that must be it! 

 

 

Reply
post #5 of 27
11/17/11 at 3:45pm
Thread Starter 

Well , I don't know, it could be it, but he is also allergic to chicken, turkey and duck.  So, I don't even want him to eat hydrolized chicken, I  want him to eat a chicken free food.  I just need to be patient and wait until he is 100% to try another protein, I wish I could do it now, but I can't.  I just don't like  the z/d, I don't want him to eat it.

 

I just wonder, Lucas has eaten friskies, and he didn't have an allergic reaction, which I find weird,  and the first ingredient is corn, if he is allergic to corn starch, shouldn't he be allergic to corn? I don't know, I will just keep trying util I find the right food for my boy.

Reply
post #6 of 27
11/17/11 at 4:46pm
Hi Tammy wavey.gif
I really can not see the difference.... I see a dark picture with a lot more contrast, and a light picture, with a lot less contrast.... To me, if I adjust the light, they will look the same....
I will have to agree with the others - it is not the chicken.... Both have it.... If anything, the corn starch.

Tammy, have you thought about leaving him on something for a while? With kitties like him, in my experience, things work long term - like looooong term. They take a long long time to settle down and get better, and when you find their sweet spot, that's where you want to be....
If he is ok on Z/D dry, leave him there for a long time - months and months - years, lifelong - if that's what it works for him, that's not a reason to change. What wet food can he deal with? Give that to him. Then settle.
Do the same thing for the medicine - what was his "sweet spot" for the steroids? What worked the best? Go back.

That how we deal with our chronically ill kids.... It is a lifelong hard work issue, I know.... I am right there with you.... vibes.gifvibes.gifvibes.gifvibes.gif
Bugsy has chicken allergies, chronic diarrhea, MANY issues that can pop just any moment, possible IBD.... Everything with him is long term - I fix what is broken, but I do not fix what is not broken agree.gif
If something is working, that is where he stays.... and stays..... until his body tells me it can no longer take it. Then we change. Their body is SO SO sensitive to anything, any changes, they go into a shock every time we put them through changes.

IMHO, if I were you, I would go back to the treatments that work, which you already know what they are, since he is so much better; to the foods that work, which you also know what they are..... and settle. A year from now I would think about doing something different - IF I considered....
Just my 2 cents for what is worth....... vibes.gifvibes.gifvibes.gifvibes.gifvibes.gifvibes.gifvibes.gifvibes.gif
Reply
post #7 of 27
11/17/11 at 4:56pm
Thread Starter 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Momto4kitties - 11/17/11 at 5:07pm
Reply
post #8 of 27
11/17/11 at 4:58pm
Thread Starter 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Reply
post #9 of 27
11/17/11 at 5:04pm
...
Edited by Carolina - 11/17/11 at 5:22pm
Reply
post #10 of 27
11/17/11 at 5:11pm
Thread Starter 

Sorry Carolina, I never disconsidered all your help, I really appreciate it, I just feel so bad that you think I will take a picture and post it knowing that a rash isn't there... anyway, no worries....I just feel bad people will think I will do that... because I will never do it...if they looked the same I would have been so happy, I wanted him to eat the food, but now, oh well

 

 

Reply
post #11 of 27
11/17/11 at 5:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momto4kitties View Post

Sorry Carolina, I never disconsidered all your help, I really appreciate it, I just feel so bad that you think I will take a picture and post it knowing that a rash isn't there... anyway, no worries....I just feel bad people will think I will do that... because I will never do it...if they looked the same I would have been so happy, I wanted him to eat the food, but now, oh well


No worries Tammy, that's ok.... I know you would never do that, and people here do too... we know you well enough hugs.gif
I hope you take the rest of my advice to heart though.... I think if you settle on what works and stay there for a while, Lucas (and you too) will just fine....
You have a lot of records here on TCS you can look back.... It is ok to stay on things for a lifetime with these kitties, it really is.... Then take it a day of a time, and deal with the issues when they show up....
I try to be as consistent as possible with Bugsy (I forgot his stomatitis too laughing02.gif) as if I keep changing things, I create problems.... So I just stay for a long time. I think the last time I changed his diet, he had been on Z/D exclusively for at least a year, and that was perfectly fine..... wavey.gif
Reply
post #12 of 27
11/17/11 at 6:13pm
Tammy- I could clearly see the difference in the two pictures. A definite rash starting. Please know that we all care about you and your sweet Lucas so very much. I just want you to know, I care and hope you are alright tonight. hugs.gifhugs.gifhugs.gifvibes.gifvibes.gifvibes.gifvibes.gif
Reply
post #13 of 27
11/17/11 at 6:39pm
Thread Starter 

Thank you so much Lauren! His belly is still a little red today, but i'm sure he will be fine in a few days.  Thank you so much for caring about my Lucas and about me, I hope your boy is getting better.  I'm doing ok now, here is my Lucas in my lap as I write;)hugs.gifhugs.gif

Hugs!

Reply
post #14 of 27
11/17/11 at 7:01pm
OH GOOD!!! biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif I am glad that Lucas is on your lap and giving you some comfort that you so much deserve. Lucas does love you so much and knows how hard you are trying to help him and figure out what he can and cannot eat. He will forgive anything you have to put him through to get to the bottom of these issues. Thank you too for your concern about Pipsqueak. He is doing just fine and we will manage just as you are managing with your Lucas. hugs.gifhugs.gif to you tonight!!! Hope to hear more good news tomorrow about your boy! biggrin.gifwavey.gif
Reply
post #15 of 27
11/17/11 at 8:52pm
Tammy, I found this, it is interesting....
You really should not be worrying about *Hydrolyzed* Chicken - It is hypoallergenic, as it is broken down and the body will not recognize the protein molecules as an allergen wink.gif BTW - Bugsy is allergic to Chicken and Duck - he will have explosive liquid diarrhea at the slightest bite. He does fine with both foods. Z/D dry is 1/2 of his daily dry, and the can is his rotation (I just added ZiwiPeak a few months ago, as I wanted him to eat real protein- He eats Venison, and Venison and fish. There are only 2 proteins on ziwi (the Venison one is a single protein), no carbs, and grain free - excellent for allergies, but very $$$ 2.79 a can)

But look:

Causes of Food Allergies

The occurrence of the negative reactions due to food is not entirely understood. However, the most frequent food allergens are common ingredients that are found in commercial food such as:

Beef
Lamb
Turkey
Corn
Corn starch
Seafood
Soy
Flour
Wheat gluten
Dairy products


Read more: Cat Food Allergies - VetInfo
Edited by Carolina - 11/17/11 at 9:34pm
Reply
post #16 of 27
11/18/11 at 9:48am
Thread Starter 

Oh Lauren, I'm so glad Pipsqueak is doing better, yes!! I hope both our boys continue to get better.

 

Hi Carolina, lots of things have happened lately with my Lucas so I had to change the way he was being treated. I don't know if you have read all my posts about it, so I will try to explain here. 

 

  Lucas had to stop the treatment our holistic vet  prescribed because the atopica (pill the vet prescribed to take lucas off the prednisolone) , made him vomit every day and wasnt really helping.  I also had to stop the z/d canned for the reasons I told you, his belly had a rash, so he has been on the z/d dry for some time and doing great. 

 

Then I decided to start trying other proteins because I need to know what he is allergic to.  So I tried:  Natural balance duck, chicken and I also gave him turkey, in separate times of course, and the reaction was immediate each time, he had a rash on his belly just minutes after eating. 

 

Then while doing better, he was accidentally exposed to the sun and he had a fever, what looked like an eye infection and sore toes,  it was finally proved that Lucas had discoid Lupus.  So  I had to  give him a higer dose of pred - 5mg (he was on 2.5mg daily).  And  I took him to the vet who prescribed  an antibiotic.    he is now doing much better. 

 

 Lucas has to stay on the prednisolone forever, but I still have to find the right dose for him. I"m ok with that,. I just have to wait until he gets better to  start  changing the dose.   And a vet told us we have to find what food he is not allergic to, so he can eat without any problems or worries. 

 

So as you see, thinsg are a little complicated because he has two conditions, but I'm doing the best i can to help him.  Have to keep trying can't give up. 

 

Hopefully, soon he will be just fine, all I have to do is keep him off the sun, give him mis pred and the right food.

 

Next on the list is Natural Balance salmon and venison, I bought them like a month ago, but won't give it to him until he is better.

 

 

 

Reply
post #17 of 27
11/18/11 at 10:07am
Hi Tammy hugs.gif. Hope today is a good day for sweet Lucas. I know with my friend who has Lupus, staying out of the sun is a must, and a good diet above all else too. I wish you SO much luck with finding the perfect diet for Lucas, by trial and error. Sometimes there is really no other way. nervousy.gif. I will keep up the prayers and vibes for you and your sweet, gorgeous little man biggrin.gifvibes.gifvibes.gifvibes.gifvibes.gifvibes.gifvibes.gifvibes.gifvibes.gifvibes.gif
Reply
post #18 of 27
11/18/11 at 10:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momto4kitties View Post

Oh Lauren, I'm so glad Pipsqueak is doing better, yes!! I hope both our boys continue to get better.

Hi Carolina, lots of things have happened lately with my Lucas so I had to change the way he was being treated. I don't know if you have read all my posts about it, so I will try to explain here. 

  Lucas had to stop the treatment our holistic vet  prescribed because the atopica (pill the vet prescribed to take lucas off the prednisolone) , made him vomit every day and wasnt really helping.  I also had to stop the z/d canned for the reasons I told you, his belly had a rash, so he has been on the z/d dry for some time and doing great. 

Then I decided to start trying other proteins because I need to know what he is allergic to.  So I tried:  Natural balance duck, chicken and I also gave him turkey, in separate times of course, and the reaction was immediate each time, he had a rash on his belly just minutes after eating. 

Then while doing better, he was accidentally exposed to the sun and he had a fever, what looked like an eye infection and sore toes,  it was finally proved that Lucas had discoid Lupus.  So  I had to  give him a higer dose of pred - 5mg (he was on 2.5mg daily).  And  I took him to the vet who prescribed  an antibiotic.    he is now doing much better. 

 Lucas has to stay on the prednisolone forever, but I still have to find the right dose for him. I"m ok with that,. I just have to wait until he gets better to  start  changing the dose.   And a vet told us we have to find what food he is not allergic to, so he can eat without any problems or worries. 

So as you see, thinsg are a little complicated because he has two conditions, but I'm doing the best i can to help him.  Have to keep trying can't give up. 

Hopefully, soon he will be just fine, all I have to do is keep him off the sun, give him mis pred and the right food.

Next on the list is Natural Balance salmon and venison, I bought them like a month ago, but won't give it to him until he is better.



Hi Tammy, I so understand where you come from.... I deal with the same thing here, a kitty with multiple conditions, Bugsy heartpump.gif
How long are you waiting to test a new food? It can take several weeks for the toxins to completely leave the body, especially when you are talking about skin allergies.... So, if you test chicken for example, you should take a while before testing another protein to have true results.

It is very very likely that if he is allergic to chicken he will be allergic to Duck and Turkey - which is what you found.
Probably your boy will be fine with venison and rabbit.
Fish is a high allergen, so I would probably leave that to the end....

With Bugsy, his reactions are so severe, that once I found a food that works, I stopped - I did not try to find everything he is allergic to..... especially because allergies are so dynamic.... they develop with time.... unfortunately frown.gif Today he might not be allergic to Venison, and all of the sudden he might develop an allergy to it. So, once I found that he is ok with Venison, that's what I give.

I understand the predicament with the meds too - remember.... it took me over 6 months changing medicine to get his diarrhea over control.... He still has soft poop, and will have it for the rest of his life. I stopped where we got at the best point we could get all things considered - the only thing we could do next, was to put him though a surgery that would risk his life, and would be extremely painful.... Bugsy can not take steroids or any other medication due to severe reactions.... aside from his stomatitis meds. He is truly a complicated kitty....

I am right there with you, and yes, I do read your posts.... I might not respond to them, but I do follow them (and Pips too Lauren heartpump.gif)....

I just posted that because I am very very used to dealing with a chronically ill/immune deficient/allergic kitty, Bugsy's body needs time to adjust and respond, and results come long term.... I do totally understand where you come from, and I am thrilled that he is doing so much better than what he was... It got scary for a little while there frown.gifhugs.gif
Reply
post #19 of 27
11/18/11 at 10:59am
I think waiting until he's stable to try a new food is the best idea. agree.gifhugs.gifvibes.gifvibes.gifvibes.gif

The MAIN thing is that he's already feeling better! clap.gif Now let's hope he just keeps improving!!!!!! biggrin.gif
Reply
post #20 of 27
11/18/11 at 6:16pm
Thread Starter 

Yes, I won't be giving Lucas any other food , only the dry z/d for now.  I will wait a long time, I don't know, maybe two months or more. 

 

It has been really bad for him for a long time, the poor baby needs a break.  He has been feeling good today.

Reply
post #21 of 27
11/18/11 at 7:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post

(and Pips too Lauren heartpump.gif)....:

Thank you hugs.gifhugs.gifhugs.gif........ We all do care about each other and our furbabies, don't we biggrin.gifhugs.gif
Reply
post #22 of 27
11/18/11 at 7:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momto4kitties View Post

Yes, I won't be giving Lucas any other food , only the dry z/d for now.  I will wait a long time, I don't know, maybe two months or more. 

It has been really bad for him for a long time, the poor baby needs a break.  He has been feeling good today.

jumping.gif Glad to hear your Lucas is feeling better today biggrin.gif!!! That is what I want to hear agree.gifbiggthumpup.gif
Reply
post #23 of 27
11/19/11 at 1:21am

On the Natural Balance wet food, you might want to check to see if chicken is in the salmon or venison. I tried them with my Curly and he reacted. Then I looked on the back of the can and they listed chicken in there. 

 

It is a shame if he is allergic to chicken because it seems like chicken is in everything. I have gone through the same thing with Curly and it is a nightmare. 

 

The zd dry is good because it has anti-allergy ingredients in it, and that will suppress his reaction. I want to try that for Curly too! 

 

If you decide to introduce other foods later on, you might want to also use those allergy pills or whatever else your vet recommends that contain anti-inflammatory properties. It can make his transition easier.

Reply
post #24 of 27
11/19/11 at 12:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarbB View Post

On the Natural Balance wet food, you might want to check to see if chicken is in the salmon or venison. I tried them with my Curly and he reacted. Then I looked on the back of the can and they listed chicken in there. 

It is a shame if he is allergic to chicken because it seems like chicken is in everything. I have gone through the same thing with Curly and it is a nightmare. 

The zd dry is good because it has anti-allergy ingredients in it, and that will suppress his reaction. I want to try that for Curly too! 

If you decide to introduce other foods later on, you might want to also use those allergy pills or whatever else your vet recommends that contain anti-inflammatory properties. It can make his transition easier.

BarbB, there are two types of Natural Balance foods - one regular, which is probably the one you used, which will contain chichen - and the one that we are talking about, that doesn't - The LID (Limited Ingredient Diet) These are the ones used for allergies, protein elimination trials,etc. For example: Venison and Pea, Salmon and Pea, Green Pea and Duck..... These do not have chicken.

Venison and Green Pea Ingredients:
Venison, Venison Broth, Venison Liver, Pea Flour, Venison Meal, Salmon Oil, Dicalcium Phosphate, Kelp, Flaxseed, Guar Gum, Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Potassium Chloride, Methionine, Taurine, Parsley, Dried Cranberries, Yucca Schidigera, Sodium Chloride, Carrageenan, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Sulfate,Vitamin E Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Niacin Supplement, Sodium Selenite, Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Pantothenate, Calcium Iodate,Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Riboflavin, Vitamin A Supplement,Folic Acid, Vitamin K Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12.

Salmon and Green Pea Canned Ingredients:
Salmon Meal, Pea Protein, Salmon Oil, Dicalcium Phosphate, Guar Gum, Potassium Chloride, Taurine, Sodium Chloride, Flaxseed, Parsley, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Cranberries, Carrageenan, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Niacin Supplement, Sodium Selenite, Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Pantothenate, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Riboflavin, Vitamin A Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement

Salmon and Green Pea Dry:
Peas, Salmon Meal, Pea Protein, Salmon, Canola Oil, Flaxseed, Natural Flavor, Choline Chloride, Methionine, Taurine, Natural Tocopherols, Zinc Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Potassium Iodide, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6),Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Manganous Oxide, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid.
Reply
post #25 of 27
11/19/11 at 12:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momto4kitties View Post

Yes, I won't be giving Lucas any other food , only the dry z/d for now.  I will wait a long time, I don't know, maybe two months or more. 

It has been really bad for him for a long time, the poor baby needs a break.  He has been feeling good today.

You BOTH need a break! hugs.gifrub.gif

GREAT he felt well! Hope it has continued!!!!! biggrin.gifbiggthumpup.gifvibes.gifvibes.gifvibes.gif
Reply
post #26 of 27
11/19/11 at 9:16pm

I have all the Natural Balance wet foods because that is what I feed my four indoor kitties and my two outdoor ferals, it is their regular food. I should have checked before writing to you. I knew it was one of either salmon or chicken. Curly is allergic to salmon too. That is why I could not use the Natural Balance Limited ingredients. Sorry, I said chicken, I thought it was in there too! Thanks for listing each ingredient, next time don't bother on my account :-).

Reply
post #27 of 27
11/20/11 at 9:43am
Thread Starter 

Thank you Barbara,  don't worry about it Barbara. I use the limited ingredient NB, I have the salmon and venison here so Lucas can try them later on.  I also have Nature's Variety Lamb and evanger's rabbit. 

Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Cat Health
TheCatSite.com › Forums › Our Feline Companions › Cat Health › Lucas is allergic to hills z/d canned, but not to the dry, I have evidence!