Worm - what would you do?

Well, this morning I found a worm in what I believe is Lazlo's poop, but I can't be sure it was his. I don't know what worm it is, but now after having looked it up, I'm pretty sure it IS roundworm.

In the fall, we had what was at first an unidentified worm in the litterbox - it turned out to be a millipede. Something we must have tracked in the house, it got onto a cat, and dropped in the box. It isn't an internal parasite, and it wasn't in poop, just walking across the litter.

This morning I wasn't SURE it was roundworm - but it was smooth with little antennae. It was also dead. I just looked at pictures, and I'm pretty sure it's roundworm.

Anyway, off we went to the vet. We asked them to identify the worm. One of the ladies up front asked that I speak to a vet. It was the least experienced vet there and I don't like her. She doesn't see our cats. She said she didn't know what it was, and didn't think the other vets would either, but they could send it out for identification.

?????? They don't know what round worm looks like?

Well, they called a little while ago to say it will cost $160 to send it out to the lab for identification!!!!!!!!!!!! I am REALLY tempted to go pick up our poop sample, take the worm out, have the rest sent out for a normal fecal, and see if we can't figure out what the darn thing is ourselves. I'm really kind of upset.

I asked the vet we work most with to call (she only works morning, and was already gone for the day by the time they called to give us this info). She won't be able to call until tomorrow morning.

So here's my question for all of you. What would you do?

a) Pay $160 (and the cost of the fecal exam) to have the worm identified?

b) Just do the fecal to see what turns up (if anything)? (Of course, the problem is fecals can be negative when there are worms). The fecal is around $25.

c) Or not bother with any of it, and just treat all the cats with Revolution? (I see no need to figure out which cat it is, because if one has it and it's been in the box, it's possible they all have it, so on that I'm clear. If we're going to treat one, we treat them all. That'll mean eight treatments, at least twice).

d) Just wait for the vet we like and trust to call us and advise us on her suggestion for the best course of action?

Gary, of course, is completely freaking out. I told him this isn't an emergency.

P.S. For those that don't know, our cats are indoor only. But we have a growing feral colony outside, and the cats DO hang out right around the RV, on our steps, on our deck, and everything's melting, and we could easily have tracked something inside, despite trying to be so careful (shoes/boots come off as soon as we enter), it's been really muddy.

I KNOW! I really want to go back to the vet and get the poop sample back.

Here's a picture from Wikispaces:



And here's the diagram (also from wikispaces):



Look - it's got "antennae." That may not be the right technical word, but the worm in the poop was smooth, "clearish"/whitish, and had those little thingies on one end.

What kept me wondering was that the worm was dead. We had a LONG battle with roundworm when we fostering and the kitties were young (and we had a strain that was resistant to panacur, and this was before Revolution or Profender & such existed)... and I saw lots of roundworm - but always alive, and always in vomit.

Well... at this point, we'll talk to the vet. But we'll probably forget the fecal, and treat them all with Revolution.

But if we're going to not bother with the fecal, I can get the sample back and I'll take pictures LOL.

Right! My experience too! That's why this left me wondering! It WAS strange - a single dead worm.

(It's also why Gary wants to pay the $160 to figure out what kind of worm it is. ).

Exactly. I don't like to use unnecessary meds, especially the poisonous toxins to kill parasites. I'm sure all of the kitties would be fine... EXCEPT Tuxedo and Chumley. I know Chum did fine before with the two treatments... and his fecals subsequently came up negative three times (trying to figure out his diarrhea problem).... but both of them have compromised immune systems to begin with.

If there is a next time, we're taking the specimen to our other vet (45 min away). I had no idea the local vet would pull something like this, and I think had it been ANY other vet at that practice that came out to chat with me, we'd have a definitive "yes, that is" or "no, that isn't" round worm.

The other what I SHOULD have done or could have done is dropped it off and left instructions to have to have the vet we like take a look at it and then call us with a recommendation on what to do.

Problem with fecals is they can be negative even though cats have the parasites. The poop sample we left, in fact, came back negative. I asked them to hold off sending it out until we'd talked to the vet today, but whatever. It's "only" $23 or $25, and there was plenty of poop to send it out and not send the worm (which they didn't).

As to the girls up front... you're right. But we know the entire vet staff here really well. The problem wasn't the front desk, the problem was the vet I chatted with.

I'm only familiar with drontal/droncit in this list. For de-worming, we use vet prescribed meds only, and sorry, but I think your advice to use dog treatments on cats is ill-advised. I'm glad it's worked out for you, but others have had cats die because of incorrect treatment. You really have to know what you're doing, and "more bang for the buck" can mean dead or Acute Renal Failure or something equally potentially life-threatening.

All our cats are feral rescues, so when they were first rescued, parasites were a problem. But as I mentioned, they're all indoor-only. So with no fleas or mice, the only potential internal parasites they could have would be roundworm or hookworm (the only two that don't require a host for transmission) that we somehow tracked inside. It is definitely possible we brought something strange in on one of our shoes, and Lazlo ate it. (Yuck).

Totally agree, never would.

And Chumley and Ming Loy are our only cats that aren't picky.

No, we'd use Profender, as suggested.

Profender treats for Tapes, Roundworm, and Hookworm, including larvae in hook and roundworm.

Revolution only treats adult roundworm and hookworm (though it also treats heartworm).

The roundworm out here is generally resistant to drontal, though supposedly it treats it. We use it for tapes on the ferals. Our standard "protocol" for parasite treatment on ferals is Revolution (topical - at least two treatments three weeks apart), drontal (pill, one administration), and shot of ivermectin (usually with a follow-up 2nd application 10 days after the first).

We do have a problem with lung worm in our area - a big problem. But that's with the outside ferals, and it requires a host (slugs or snails). Treatment is a shot of ivermectin - usually requiring a second (though theoretically fenbendazole (Panacur) also treats them, the shot is much easier)).

Vet's office called to say our vet would be calling after her last patient appt this morning.

Jane did say that doc looked at the worm, and thought she saw a green stripe on it. She's going to look at it under the microscope before she calls back.

Well, the call with the vet returned the expected results. It's probably roundworm. Strange to see it in poop, but best to just treat everyone with Profender.

Actually, that's what the lab charges. We were the ones that asked about getting it identified, but that was because the icky vet was the one that came out to talk to me. I love two of the vets at that practice.

As to the green stripe - she thinks it's just discoloration from it being so old and shriveled and having been sitting in litter all day and night. Bottom line is - better safe than sorry. Even though Chum had numerous treatments and 3 fecals that came back negative, most likely he's the source. More likely that than us tracking stuff inside, especially as we remove shoes/boots on the first step, and we keep it covered with a throw carpet that's washed weekly.

As to the Profender, she says it's supposed to work with one treatment as it kills the larvae. Drontal, Panacur, Strongid-T, Revolution, &etc. all require a second treatment after three weeks because they only kill the adults. But she advises follow-up in three weeks for comfort zone.

Also, fecals in cats with worms can come back negative because even though there are worms, they're not necessarily "shedding" the larvae. An adult worm means they were infected at least several weeks ago - and if we're right about the source being Chum, he'd be the one shedding - or that was shedding.

Whatever.

We're just going to go ahead and treat them all. Called Tuxie's vet - he said he's fine with Tuxie being treated with the Profender, best to just go ahead.

I'm sorry, I don't understand the question? I also don't understand this statement: "Every medication out here either does the animal good or does nothing for the pet at all." ?????

As I said, I'm not familiar with a lot of the meds you'd listed (don't know if they're still listed there or not), but Sergeant's has a number of OTC meds sold for various parasites, internal or external, and no, they are NOT necessarily safe, and the idea that either they work or do nothing at all is just incorrect. "Medication" used to treat parasites are not "medication" in the traditional sense of the word. They are toxins that are more akin to poison (some ARE poison), and many cats and dogs have had very serious problems with them, causing them to die or be left fighting for their lives. It has nothing to do with being safe in California and not safe in other places.

You'll find that anyone knowledgeable (not just "women" on TCS) about treating parasites would never use OTC options.

Here's are examples as to why:

http://thatismessedup.com/2009/06/10...-sicken-20000/
http://www.hartzvictims.org/2008/07/...-be-boycotted/
http://www.hartzsyndrome.org/

Laws governing food and medications for animals are not nearly as regulated as they are for people. If Hartz/Sergeant's products kill animals, why are they allowed on shelves? I can't answer that.

I do know they're less expensive because they are not subject to the same research and clinical trial process that IS used by reputable companies for the products that are sold via prescription.

As to the dog/cat thing... if you are EXPERIENCED in working with animals, you KNOW the medication... e.g. you have the knowledge and experience to determine that a dog product is safe for a cat, and you can determine a proper dosage... that is a decision that is between you and a vet. But it's not really responsible in a public forum (IMO) to recommend something like that to people who may not know what they're doing, may not be able to figure out the right dose... I certainly wouldn't want to be responsible for recommending something that may send someone's pet into renal failure.

Why would it be any different anywhere else?

Many people treat their animals with home remedies or homeopathics. We have an FIV+ kitty that we're treating with herbals. But we're doing it under the supervision of a vet trained in western herbs, chinese herbs, and homeopathy.

Plenty of people out there treat themselves, and are willing to try to treat their own animals. I'm not one of them. I do know that many herbals can interact with each other and with traditional meds. Just because they don't require a prescription doesn't make them "safe" or "harmless."