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Grain Free bad for male cats?

post #1 of 52
12/14/10 at 8:44pm
Thread Starter 
Hello All,

I have two male cats, one is 2yrs and the other is 17 weeks. They eat a combination of dry and mostly wet food. After reading a few posts on here about grain free not being the best food for males I'm slightly confused.

I was wondering if someone could explain a bit more in detail why grain free could pose potential problems for male cats?

My two boys are on Evo dry and a mixture of wet food being:

By Nature
TurDucken
Felidae-Kitten and Cat formula
Natural Balance-Venison/Pea formula

and a few others when they are on sale. Is there something I need to change food wise? Any recommendations for a food with grain that isn't completely awful?

Thanks
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post #2 of 52
12/14/10 at 8:59pm
I will NEVER again feed a male cat a totally grain free dry again! I have lots of vet bills from trying it ... Grain free has too high of mineral levels

Grain free wet IS Fine... as the moisture helps balance it and the processing does not yeild incorrect nutrient levels..

Grain in a dry food is NOT evil or bad .... Some grains are better than others and you do want meat meal and meat ahead of any grains...
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post #3 of 52
12/14/10 at 9:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
I will NEVER again feed a male cat a totally grain free dry again! I have lots of vet bills from trying it ... Grain free has too high of mineral levels

Grain free wet IS Fine... as the moisture helps balance it and the processing does not yeild incorrect nutrient levels..

Grain in a dry food is NOT evil or bad .... Some grains are better than others and you do want meat meal and meat ahead of any grains...
Same here....
I know the theory is great an all, cats are obligate carnivores, not made to digest grains, bla bla bla...
It did not take long for my Cat to end up with a massive UTI, then he got a complication from the antibiotics from that UTI... I am currently dealing with it, so far over $1,000 in vet bills because one thing let to another, not counting the prescriptions and the worry, which is the worst.
My foods, at least the dry, will always have one grain. They will not be grainy, or grain heavy, but they will not be grain free.
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post #4 of 52
12/14/10 at 9:42pm
Do you suppose it's the potatoes that are in grain-free dry foods that are causing the problems, or is it something in the grains that prevents the urinary issues? Hmmm. Someone should do a study. I use TOTW in my dry food mix but because it's mixed with several grain-inclusive foods I suppose it's not a worry.

Felidae and Natural Balance make good dry foods with grains. My kitties really liked both but they're too pricey for me to buy on a regular basis now. Still reasonably priced, IMO, but not for as many cats as I have! I use, mixed together: TOTW, 4Health, Chicken Soup, Diamond Naturals Active Cat, and one other that varies--Authority, ProPlan, MaxCat, etc.--whatever mid-grade food that is on sale or I find a good deal on. If I were feeding only one food, I think I'd use Chicken Soup or 4Health. I wouldn't feed the others alone.
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post #5 of 52
12/14/10 at 9:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willowy View Post
Do you suppose it's the potatoes that are in grain-free dry foods that are causing the problems, or is it something in the grains that prevents the urinary issues? Hmmm. Someone should do a study. I use TOTW in my dry food mix but because it's mixed with several grain-inclusive foods I suppose it's not a worry.

Felidae and Natural Balance make good dry foods with grains. My kitties really liked both but they're too pricey for me to buy on a regular basis now. Still reasonably priced, IMO, but not for as many cats as I have! I use, mixed together: TOTW, 4Health, Chicken Soup, Diamond Naturals Active Cat, and one other that varies--Authority, ProPlan, MaxCat, etc.--whatever mid-grade food that is on sale or I find a good deal on. If I were feeding only one food, I think I'd use Chicken Soup or 4Health. I wouldn't feed the others alone.
Potatoes are another issue.. no it is the meat and meat meal processing ( ie higher bone content )
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post #6 of 52
12/14/10 at 10:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
Same here....
I know the theory is great an all, cats are obligate carnivores, not made to digest grains, bla bla bla...
It did not take long for my Cat to end up with a massive UTI, then he got a complication from the antibiotics from that UTI... I am currently dealing with it, so far over $1,000 in vet bills because one thing let to another, not counting the prescriptions and the worry, which is the worst.
My foods, at least the dry, will always have one grain. They will not be grainy, or grain heavy, but they will not be grain free.
So his UTI was from grain free DRY only? That scared me for a moment. lol...I have Parker on grain free wet food, as part of an experiment to correct his FHS symptoms. My vet advised me not to give him dry at all. Feeding cats is quite complicated.
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post #7 of 52
12/14/10 at 10:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyParker View Post
So his UTI was from grain free DRY only? That scared me for a moment. lol...I have Parker on grain free wet food, as part of an experiment to correct his FHS symptoms. My vet advised me not to give him dry at all. Feeding cats is quite complicated.
Yep, sure is complicated! He was on both dry and wet...
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post #8 of 52
12/14/10 at 11:15pm
Jamie had been on grain-free wet (still is) and dry with grain for years with no problems. It was after I replaced his dry food with grain-free dry that his urine pH changed and he developed struvite crystals.
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post #9 of 52
12/15/10 at 4:59am
With the exception of Sherman, my house cats are eating NB duck and pea and TOTW - with 2/3rds of their daily food as wet.

What options are there for oatmeal? It's the only grain I haven't tried on Sho. Corn, wheat, barley, and rice get vomited back up. And what is there for a non fish, no chicken, and no turkey food? Tomas get extremely watery diarrhea from chicken and turkey. Siri also seems to have a sensitive stomach, but I haven't figured out what causes it - shes vomited grain foods (corn) and TOTW. So far no one (beside Sherman) has had a problem with crystals.

And just to add, Sho is 8. The NB has 30% protein, which is what I see most foods that are marked as senior foods at (with a few being higher than that).
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post #10 of 52
12/15/10 at 5:18am
I feed my one male cat go naturals which is grain-free. I used to feed the now! grain-free but changed to go because of the higher protein level. It's been 2 years and he's had no problems (knock on wood). I feed him a variety of canned foods, some with or without grain. Im not refuting the much more experienced and learned sharky and carolina, just curious. My cat is probably the exception to the rule. Why only male cats? Females get utid too right? Is there an increased chance of flutd? Or maybe since i feed some grain foofs then his diet is more balanced?
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post #11 of 52
12/15/10 at 6:34am
I can only speak from my own experience, but Jamie's problem with crystals only developed after he'd been on a completely grain-free diet for close to a year. Miezi (female) was on the same diet and had no trouble, but she's indoor/outdoor and supplements her diet with prey. My vets' nutritionist said grain-free was fine if it wasn't fed exclusively, again because of the pH. The urinary prescription foods (Jamie gets the dry in the morning) are very grain-heavy. Males are more at risk because of their narrower urethras.
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post #12 of 52
12/15/10 at 6:41am
This is scary for me. My Leo doesn't have any identified allergies, but his skin goes 'funny' with every grain food I've ever tried him on so I suspect he's got a sensitivity to grain, though I couldn't tell you for sure which one(s). Because of this (his skin gets SO itchy if there's any corn or rice, for sure), he's on Taste of the Wild, which is grain-free. He doesn't like wet food, so he hasn't been on any (he eats two bites and wanders off, leaving it to dry out until I pick it up a little while later so he doesn't get sick from 'bad' food). He's never had any urinary tract issues, but now I'm wondering what I should do instead... Should I supplement with some raw food, maybe? (he LOVES raw chicken and turkey and vegetables) I don't want to deal with urinary tract issues! He's been on TotW for two years now.
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post #13 of 52
12/15/10 at 7:31am
WOW! We've had Tumbles on a grain free diet since we adopted him and he's been fine, but after reading this, I might change my mind and add some grain to his diet. What are some of the better dry foods to try?
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post #14 of 52
12/15/10 at 8:10am
I knew I remembered before reading somewhere, that grain free wasn't the greatest idea for boy cats, just couldn't remember where though. Probably on here, lol.

I am feeding Wellness Core dry (along with a different brand of wet), but some Purina cat food was donated where I work, and the shelter here won't accept pet food donations so i took it home to mix in with the Core, for the simple fact that core is expensive and the dry would last longer without having to buy more so soon. Might continue to do this now, mix foods.
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post #15 of 52
12/15/10 at 9:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by strange_wings View Post
With the exception of Sherman, my house cats are eating NB duck and pea and TOTW - with 2/3rds of their daily food as wet.

What options are there for oatmeal? It's the only grain I haven't tried on Sho. Corn, wheat, barley, and rice get vomited back up. And what is there for a non fish, no chicken, and no turkey food? Tomas get extremely watery diarrhea from chicken and turkey. Siri also seems to have a sensitive stomach, but I haven't figured out what causes it - shes vomited grain foods (corn) and TOTW. So far no one (beside Sherman) has had a problem with crystals.

And just to add, Sho is 8. The NB has 30% protein, which is what I see most foods that are marked as senior foods at (with a few being higher than that).
Oats are good and few are allergic... Quinoa is excellent and mine will actually eat it in natural form.... Millet... Tapioca may help though not a grain
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post #16 of 52
12/15/10 at 10:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
Oats are good and few are allergic... Quinoa is excellent and mine will actually eat it in natural form.... Millet... Tapioca may help though not a grain
But the problem is that I'm just not seeing these foods in a senior friendly version. Maybe I'm just missing them? I sure have some difficult cats. I have to wonder if its simply due to who I take in, usually there's already something wrong with them when I get them.

Tomas can have grains, luckily, but I like his food to be more simple (ingredient list wise) just in case.
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post #17 of 52
12/15/10 at 5:50pm
So if I am feeding them TOTW which is grain free, what other brand/dry food can I blend in with that has some grain?
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post #18 of 52
12/15/10 at 5:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieEM View Post
So if I am feeding them TOTW which is grain free, what other brand/dry food can I blend in with that has some grain?
Read the labels.. of course you need to think about how much grain your comfortable with... For me it is a minimum of equal amount or more meat... Ie my current food has rice and oatmeal for grains and chicken and fish for meat ... the fish and oats are NOT high up in ingredients thus I allow the fish

My preference would be a chicken , beef and rabbit with just oats but so fat I am the only one who make s that
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post #19 of 52
12/16/10 at 7:23pm
Skipping ahead here, but I don't think you need to worry too much about grain-free in and of itself.

The concerns from what I have read is that you want to watch for very high meat protein content which can raise the urine PH and high magnesium levels.

The higher the urine PH, the more sensitive the animal is to excess magnesium consumption.

I can see that these can be caused by a grain-free formula, especially one with certain species of fish as a major ingredient, but ultimately its the nutrition label that we need to look at.

There is nothing wrong with regular brown rice as a grain btw, but not all grains are equal and I would stay away from corn, wheat, and soy as those are supposed to be less desirable and can be allergens.
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post #20 of 52
12/21/10 at 8:28pm
Does anyone know the magnesium or ash levels in TOTW? I don't see it listed on their site.
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post #21 of 52
12/21/10 at 8:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittysback View Post
Does anyone know the magnesium or ash levels in TOTW? I don't see it listed on their site.
A email to them will yield you every mineral level in the food ...
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post #22 of 52
12/22/10 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
A email to them will yield you every mineral level in the food ...
Yep, already emailed them.
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post #23 of 52
12/22/10 at 6:11pm
Thread Starter 
A grain food / grain free food can be mixed together? Does that create an imbalance of vitamins/minerals? Mixing together would be a great alternative to completely switching their food for me.
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post #24 of 52
12/22/10 at 6:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann1688 View Post
A grain food / grain free food can be mixed together? Does that create an imbalance of vitamins/minerals? Mixing together would be a great alternative to completely switching their food for me.
Yes
Not if you are using two AFFCO complete foods ... 99% of the foods on the market in the US have one of the two ways of an AFFCO seal( feed trial or chemical percentages )
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post #25 of 52
12/23/10 at 9:44am
I have found that I can't feed a grain free diet at home with the boys either. I just end up having too many urinary issues.

I am feeding EVO to my boy who is diabetic though and so far so good there.

Does anyone have an opinion on the Natures Variety Prarie diets?
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post #26 of 52
12/23/10 at 10:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pamszoo View Post
I have found that I can't feed a grain free diet at home with the boys either. I just end up having too many urinary issues.

I am feeding EVO to my boy who is diabetic though and so far so good there.

Does anyone have an opinion on the Natures Variety Prarie diets?
Prairie and Instinct are good foods that many kitties do not seem to find tasty
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post #27 of 52
12/24/10 at 2:49am
I feed my young cat both instinct and their homestyle canned. He likes the latter more and it has grain. Its stewy with gravy. But he could not stand the dry. It was so dry looking i couldnt blame him. I also feed my dog nv raw.
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post #28 of 52
12/24/10 at 4:18pm
I feed NV Instinct both canned and raw to my cats and they love it.

My cat who used to have crystals and was for several years on the dry Hills c/d (and still had crystals) has never had a problem on grain free BUT it's wet food which probably makes a big difference. I know I have read (I think on catinfo.org?) that for some reason the grain free dry food is even lower in moisture content than most dry food is.
I do know a lot of people who feed grain free canned or raw and have not had a problem with urinary issues.
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post #29 of 52
12/24/10 at 5:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by maewkaew View Post
I feed NV Instinct both canned and raw to my cats and they love it.

My cat who used to have crystals and was for several years on the dry Hills c/d (and still had crystals) has never had a problem on grain free BUT it's wet food which probably makes a big difference. I know I have read (I think on catinfo.org?) that for some reason the grain free dry food is even lower in moisture content than most dry food is.
I do know a lot of people who feed grain free canned or raw and have not had a problem with urinary issues.
Grain free dry is the same 8-12 % moisture as all the other drys( there are mandates of moisture content in dry foods to classify it as such)... It is HIGHER in overall Ash and Mineral content.....
Wet food grain free does Not pose the same issues...

I know MANY many who when feeding raw made Urinary issues far worse ... This is also the experience of many of the vets in my area including some who feed raw
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post #30 of 52
12/25/10 at 4:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
I know MANY many who when feeding raw made Urinary issues far worse ... This is also the experience of many of the vets in my area including some who feed raw
Does that seem to correlate to particular meats mostly used, quality, or just using parts? Would whole prey do that, too? Or is it overall lack of knowledge in many trying it? (just curious)
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