No Good Deed Goes Un ....

well, don't want to write the word, but I'm in a FUNK - just got back from the vets with the results of the Leukemia test - yes sir-re-bob, it's 85% positive this little guy has it!!!

I guess there's another test that could tell me with about 10% more accuracy, but what's the sense in getting it!?

I have 3 of my Original cats that are healthy - at least for now.

So, with rescuing the first stray - who tested positive with FIV, now a second with FeLv - which, I guess, is even more contagious, and I may have put my Original cats at risk without realizing it.

Buddy has been mostly kept away from the other cats, but yesterday when I left for the vet I forgot to close the door to his room, - and the Original cats may have gone in there, used his litter pan, sniffed, or drank from his water ... but, I don't know ?? so, that, along with a couple of encounters between KiKi and Buddy where Buddy licked KiKi's head - I thought it was sweet, HA!, the kiss of death is more like it.

So, now I'm trying to get up to speed on this disease, and trying to figure out what my precautions need to be.

I know I'm taking KiKi to the vet for testing, but if he does show positive I think I'll cry - the idea of trying to help a stranger at the risk of hurting a family member is just plain awful to even think about. ugh!

Oh sweetie, I don't know what to say. Yes, FeLV is more contagious than FIV. I don't know, but I suspect it isn't passed that casually, so kitties with a healthy immune system probably will be OK with the limited contact.

It's so very, very hard to learn lessons the hard way, and I hope it doesn't turn out that way, but the lesson here is with any rescuing in the future, the first thing that needs to happen is kitty needs to be separated and to a vet as soon as possible.

Because we live in the RV, after our first mistake (that only cost us another round worm bout), we always took any rescue STRAIGHT to the vet - and often they stayed there for 10 days (enough time for anything they were carrying to "bloom" ) - and got them tested and vaccinated and spayed/neutered and such before they ever came home (unless they were little kitties - then speutering came later).

all will be OK.

Adult cats are pretty resistant to getting Felv, and that usually gets spread between unaltered cats fighting and breeding (which your cats definitely are not) - you know their immune systems are already stressed without a virus being involved.
It would be bringing kittens into the home that you'd have to worry about.

It's also possible that this cat has Felv and will be one of the healthy cats with it - it really depends on the type of Felv. A, B, and C do different things and are worse if the cat has both A and B together, for example.

Originally Posted by LDG

Oh sweetie, I don't know what to say. Yes, FeLV is more contagious than FIV. I don't know, but I suspect it isn't passed that casually, so kitties with a healthy immune system probably will be OK with the limited contact.

It's so very, very hard to learn lessons the hard way, and I hope it doesn't turn out that way, but the lesson here is with any rescuing in the future, the first thing that needs to happen is kitty needs to be separated and to a vet as soon as possible.

Because we live in the RV, after our first mistake (that only cost us another round worm bout), we always took any rescue STRAIGHT to the vet - and often they stayed there for 10 days (enough time for anything they were carrying to "bloom" ) - and got them tested and vaccinated and spayed/neutered and such before they ever came home (unless they were little kitties - then speutering came later).

all will be OK.

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That's great advice - guess I've now learned that lesson, maybe the hard way, we'll see.

My Original cats are older, the oldest is 6 (he's the one that wanted to befriend Buddy) and the other two (brother & sister) are 4 years old. Some of my research gives me some hope that they will be less likely to get the virus - but, I'm a realist.

Now I'm reading about the care of the cat with leukemia - and the idea that I might have to practically change my clothes each time I visit with Buddy is just too much!

I'm realizing that there are many more questions I need to ask the vet - like which stage Buddy is in right now as per the test results. (I didn't have to pay for this test she did it for free which was really sweet of her.)

One web site says the virus easily dies in warmth and dryness, yet another says to close off the space between the door and the floor so the other cats can't touch him ??? It's hard to cram this knowledge into my brain while I'm in crisis mode.

Right now Buddy is in the office with me - and the computer - so, I guess the other cats are completely restricted from even walking on this rug even if Buddy isn't in here, or his stuff -- I mean, just how far does someone go in order to keep a precious cat alive while protecting the others - I guess that's the question, isn't it.

The cat carrier is no longer usable for the others, and on and on we go - I've already been practicing bleaching the dishes we use to feed all the cats - I use stoneware, and corning, and other utensils - cleaning what the cats have used in a bleach solution, then into the dishwasher with the heat cycle.

The FIV cat I've had in the laundry room, and allowed him into the family room at night along with his family for a few hours, or even overnight - boy! am I flirting with danger or what! They could also have the leukemia virus and I wouldn't know because they are feral - well, they may be enjoying the lovin' I'm giving - but I still can't touch them - so I guess I could call them semi-feral with a former stray daddy. Shoot, they could even be FIV like the Mr. of the family....
.....
Yep, and during the day the Original cats have access to most of the house including the halls, kitchen, and family room where Gray and his family have been.

I had been mopping the ceramic tile floors with a bleach solution - like the vet told me - 1 part bleach per 30 parts water is what they use --- but, had slacked off these last few days with the addition of Buddy, because I'm tired.

Thanks for listening - I totally know you understand, and it helps to have your sweet response(s).
,
g

Originally Posted by strange_wings

Adult cats are pretty resistant to getting Felv, and that usually gets spread between unaltered cats fighting and breeding (which your cats definitely are not) - you know their immune systems are already stressed without a virus being involved.
It would be bringing kittens into the home that you'd have to worry about.

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Hummm.... not necessarily. FeLV can be transmitted through mutual grooming, shared bowls and plates, shared litter boxes, mouth or nose contact, sneezes... fighting and breeding are only two of the many ways it can get transmitted.
I would make sure all the other kitties are vaccinated too.

Originally Posted by Carolina

Hummm.... not necessarily. FeLV can be transmitted through mutual grooming, shared bowls and plates, shared litter boxes, mouth or nose contact, sneezes... fighting and breeding are only two of the many ways it can get transmitted.

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It takes a lot of contact, not casual contact between two cats. Much less two adult cats that aren't as closely bonded to each other and less likely to be that close. (verses cats that grow up with each other or a kitten and adult cat bond)

what do you think the pros and cons might be of giving him this supplement ?? some are giving Vit C
??

http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/brochures/felv.html

from cornell

I know my husband isn't going to change his clothes when he stops holding Buddy - I know we aren't going to put on Booties to walk into the room - I just know these things ... shoot, when I had Buddy in at the vets, and they took him into the lab for tests do you think they changed clothes after they carried him ?? nah ... or disinfected where ever they put him to get blood?, or, how about those scales they put him on - I doubt they were disinfected even before they place Buddy on them ...

I'm trying to be both realistic, practical, and safe in our daily routine

I just spent the morning bleaching my FR & Kitchen floors, walls, windows, furniture because Buddy had been in those areas before I knew about the virus ... I know I can't continue to do that sort of stuff as a daily routine.

I just have to figure out how crazy I have to make my husband, and me, in order to keep this little precious boy safe, and the virus away from my other cats.

This is a movie --- if you click on it you'll be taken to photobucket album --

http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/...dy June 2010/?action=view&current=Movie2.mp4

This is a just a still photo - and this is Buddy

Oh my God, isn't he the sweetest thing ever?? Awwwww poor baby.... That's so sad that he is such a sick little boy
You are an angel for taking care of him

Originally Posted by GloriaJH

what do you think the pros and cons might be of giving him this supplement ?? some are giving Vit C
??

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I would probably give him Transfer Factor Plus, instead - not the feline, but the human... Here is some vet feedback on it. I have used it with great success on Bugsy, not for Leukemia, but it does works wonders.

I am sorry to hear that, I can imagine how stressed out you must be! I hope your other kitties are ok...
I had a friend whose cats tested positive for Feleuk and I was freaking out because some of my cats had come into contact with hers when mine were kittens. I had mine tested and luckily they were fine... It turned out her cats may have gotten it from a feral/stray kitten she took in and rehomed and I guess did not get tested, which happened way after my kittens were around her cats so mine were probably not exposed thankfully.

Originally Posted by Nekochan

I am sorry to hear that, I can imagine how stressed out you must be! I hope your other kitties are ok...
I had a friend whose cats tested positive for Feleuk and I was freaking out because some of my cats had come into contact with hers when mine were kittens. I had mine tested and luckily they were fine... It turned out her cats may have gotten it from a feral/stray kitten she took in and rehomed and I guess did not get tested, which happened way after my kittens were around her cats so mine were probably not exposed thankfully.

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Thanks for being there with me - somehow it's comforting to be able to share concerns and know that others don't think you're insane for being so caring about our cats

I totally understand your relief!! whew!! that WAS a close one!
g

Okay, some internet info says that the virus is short lived outside of the body - some say that heat and dry seems to kill it off okay

some say that disinfecting works

some say that you should wait THIRTY days before introducing a new cat into your home where your sick cat lived

so, what is it

a short-lived virus, or THIRTY days?

I'm still looking for definitive answers

I know why advise is given that the cat should be in a home where he is the only cat -- but, for those of us who can't manage that - we need realistic procedures - REALLY -

Buddy is healthy so far, even if there's a 1% chance that he'll throw this virus off I'm hopeful he will, meanwhile - I am trying to find realistic solutions for him living with ALL of us, and everyone remaining healthy. I'm keeping one of my computers in the same room as Buddy is in so I'll naturally be in there a lot - he's already typed a few letters for me .

I can't imagine that him being stuck in a room - where I can't pay that much attention to him - will aid in his well being - he is so social!

So far, Cornel has an article that is helpful - well, ?
http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/brochures/felv.html
I don't think I provided that link before.

Originally Posted by GloriaJH

Okay, some internet info says that the virus is short lived outside of the body - some say that heat and dry seems to kill it off okay

some say that disinfecting works

some say that you should wait THIRTY days before introducing a new cat into your home where your sick cat lived

so, what is it

a short-lived virus, or THIRTY days?

I'm still looking for definitive answers

I know why advise is given that the cat should be in a home where he is the only cat -- but, for those of us who can't manage that - we need realistic procedures - REALLY -

Buddy is healthy so far, even if there's a 1% chance that he'll throw this virus off I'm hopeful he will, meanwhile - I am trying to find realistic solutions for him living with ALL of us, and everyone remaining healthy. I'm keeping one of my computers in the same room as Buddy is in so I'll naturally be in there a lot - he's already typed a few letters for me

.

I can't imagine that him being stuck in a room - where I can't pay that much attention to him - will aid in his well being - he is so social!

So far, Cornel has an article that is helpful - well, ?
http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/brochures/felv.html
I don't think I provided that link before.

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What about vaccinating the others?

Originally Posted by Carolina

What about vaccinating the others?

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yes, but they have to go through two screenings before they'll give them the vaccine - and, from what I've read - they're 6 months apart -

this is one of the questions for the vet - funny, the only cat that I have vaccinated for LeFv is the other former stray - Gray - who was diagnosed with the FIV virus -

also, from what I'm reading - the vaccine may not protect your cat, either - there's so much "IF'ing" in the information I'm reading - if this, - if that - - it's just crazy

I was so anti-vaccination - my cats were safe, inside my safe home - ha!, then my heart had to be pulled to all these needy creatures - and, my lack of knowledge just didn't have me prepared to put up all the protections I needed ... live and learn, for sure.

I know what you mean about vaccinations... On one hand I am very leery of over-vaccinating but on the other I want to take all precautions possible! I show some of my cats and I want to be careful with their health but finding a balance between too many vaccinations and not enough can be hard.
I have also heard that about the vaccines not being completely effective.

I think the 30 days thing is probably just to be completely sure and cautious, like how people do 'quarantines' when bringing home a new pet or after any illness even if contagion is unlikely.

Originally Posted by GloriaJH

yes, but they have to go through two screenings before they'll give them the vaccine - and, from what I've read - they're 6 months apart -

this is one of the questions for the vet - funny, the only cat that I have vaccinated for LeFv is the other former stray - Gray - who was diagnosed with the FIV virus -

also, from what I'm reading - the vaccine may not protect your cat, either - there's so much "IF'ing" in the information I'm reading - if this, - if that -

- it's just crazy

I was so anti-vaccination - my cats were safe, inside my safe home - ha!, then my heart had to be pulled to all these needy creatures - and, my lack of knowledge just didn't have me prepared to put up all the protections I needed ... live and learn, for sure.

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As we say in Brasil, The necessity makes the occasion!

Adults are pretty resistant to FeLV, Like I said Attitude and Nuts lived with Maude and she was never infected and they shared everything. They all had their own bowls, litter boxes, etc but they shared them all. I know Nuts and Maude touched noses a few times and that Maude would let Attitude lay against her. It is correct that most adults get it from breeding and fighting, they are pretty resistant to catching it any other way.

It can be passed on via casual contact but most adults have immunities to it.

The carrier is still usable, if it worries you either wash it or let it get some sunshine and it'll be fine. Maude used the same carriers as Attitude and Nuts even before she was vaccinated and they were moved inside.

The virus is not always doom and gloom, keep in mind I have 7-8 FeLV + cats and except for Attitude and her eye(which could be totally unrelated to the FeLV) everyone is healthy.

I don't know why your vet won't vaccinate until 2 negative tests 6 months apart, ours tested Maude and then vaccinated her. He said she didn't have to be retested unless she came in sick.

Talk to your vet about Interferon, as soon as mine is compounded I'm giving it to Attitude and Nuts, other supplements really won't do anything except cost you money, but if it makes you feel better they won't hurt.

I also don't think saying he is a really sick little boy applies, he's healthy. The virus makes him no more sick than any other cat, when they are healthy they're healthy when they are sick they are sick. I don't treat mine any differently than I would a normal cat.

The virus also is not long lived. The vet has no problems with me bringing Attitude in on just a leash. If it was long lived I'd be told to use a carrier.

I am careful, but I don't go overboard. There were some really cute kittens in a cage at the vet's office. I wanted to go greet them so I told Attitude to stay in her seat and I went over trying to hold a retractable leash and sanitize my hands so I could go over and pet them through the bars of their cage. I obviously do not let her near other cats.

It really isn't as scary as it seems, even though I would want any negative vaccinated against it ASAP.

You could also have titers drawn to see if your adults are immune to FeLV when might mean you don't even have to vaccinate them and they can live together with no risk.

As I said Maude and Attitude and Nuts were all fine, Maude was vaccinated and never came down with FeLV so it can be done, you just have to start with healthy adults, I would not bring a kitten into the picture, they are a lot lot lot more likely to catch it, pretty much after a year they have enough immunities to not come down with it.

If the ELISA is positive them I would go with that. Of course I've also had 3 kittens from Attitude and Nuts' litter(counting them) test positive so I know there is no question about their leukemia status. If you want to have the ISA done then depending on what your vet recommends I'd do it.

If you want any further info PM me. Sadly, I know what it's like, but it isn't all gloom and doom. The other vet told me he had had FeLV cats lived to be 10 or 11(and the other vet has an uncle who's FeLV+ cat lived to be 17) so there is no reason mine shouldn't live a long healthy life.

Taryn

Like many human viruses, there are different strains of FeLV and so the difference in times as well as just differing views between vets.

As far as the vaccine, my vet doesn't recommend it, its not 100% effective (ok no vaccine is, but its less effective than many) and she feels it gives owners a false sense of security when they should still be taking precautions not to spread the disease.

I didn't read the background, but has the cat been tested previously? With so many false positives, my vet does not diagnose them as FeLV positive until 2 tests have been done a few weeks apart as they can be exposed to the virus having it show now but fight it off and not become infected (as your own cats could show now)

Originally Posted by icklemiss21

Like many human viruses, there are different strains of FeLV and so the difference in times as well as just differing views between vets.

As far as the vaccine, my vet doesn't recommend it, its not 100% effective (ok no vaccine is, but its less effective than many) and she feels it gives owners a false sense of security when they should still be taking precautions not to spread the disease.

I didn't read the background, but has the cat been tested previously? With so many false positives, my vet does not diagnose them as FeLV positive until 2 tests have been done a few weeks apart as they can be exposed to the virus having it show now but fight it off and not become infected (as your own cats could show now)

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Virus: oh, I didn't know there were different strains of the leukemia virus, really didn't even consider it. That information wasn't in the research that I found - guess the writers thought everyone already knew that little fact.

Vaccine: no false sense of security here - just another precaution unless I hear that the vaccine causes more problems than it helps. My original three have always been inside cats. Until recently they haven had any contact with other cats - and therefore no vaccines have been given to them.

Tests: This is his first FeFV test that I know about.

He chose us the first week in June, I agreed with him that we would choose him back around 6/14/10. He is just the sweetest ever of all the other 7 that we have, with one exception, our first one - who has been a sweet cuddlier since day one.

The positive tests results came when we took him to the vet the first time after bringing him into our family.

Both the office test and the lab test were done on the same day - I'm taking him back in 6 weeks for another test -
The vet judged him to be about a year or even a year and a half. He hadn't been neutered, and his head had matured much as a older non-neutered male cat would around that age.

The office test only turned positive AFTER the timer went off. This caused the vet to take more blood and send out for the lab test - at their cost. When I asked the vet what stage she would say he was, she said an "A" - and, the office test was a very low positive.

So, we are cautiously optimistic that he will overcome the virus, meanwhile he is being kept in a room by himself most of the time ... and I'm being anal about trying to keep the virus from spreading to the other cats until I get the other cats tested. I've been collecting great information, and hopefully will make wise decisions on this information I am being given.

I hope this makes sense ... I'm typing in the dark - in the room with Buddy, past my bedtime. Keeping my computer in the same room with him assures that he'll have a lot of company!