Help with Sub-Q's and Aggressive Cat

Aussie is not doing well and is in the late stages of CRF. As a result, she now requires very frequent sub-q's. The problem is that she does NOT handle them well so I'm hoping someone here has a tip that will help until the restraint bag I bought arrives next week. Here is what I've tried so far:

Using her favorite bed
Using a laundry basket to set her in with her bed
Spraying the area with Feliway first
Providing treats before, during and after treatment
Brushing her during treatment (she loves to be brushed)
Clipping (non-responsive to this method)

No matter how I approach this, as soon as the fluids start going in she struggles to get away and eventually gets so mad she starts hissing at me. I truly believe the restraint bag is going to be my saving grace, but I need to get fluids in her several times before that arrives. Any tips are GREATLY appreciated. I have to do this by myself so please keep that in mind. Thanks in advance!

Do you warm the fluids?

Do you give the fluids from the floor or from a table or counter top? I had better success doing it by myself while seated on the floor where I could use my body/legs/etc to help contain the cat.

When I gave fluids to George, a feral, I had to have a holder to scruff him. We wrapped a blanket or towel around the front part of his body to keep him from catching us with his claws or getting away.

And yes, I aways warm the fluids, plus had better success with the terumo needles vs monoject. They seemed sharper, with less resistance going through the skin.

I was hoping you were still around to answer! yes, warm the fluids to (cat) body temperature (about 100 F) by putting the bag in a pan of warm water. Check the temp (and the flow) by running it over your wrist. It should feel just warm on your skin.

From what you say, it isn't the stick that bothers Aussie, but when he feels the fluids. If the ringers is cold, I can understand why he reacts.

Most cats eventually make the connection between getting the fluids and feeling better, and learn to accept it quite well.

What size needle do you use? The smaller the needle the less he will feel the stick, but it also slows the flow down. I prefer an #18 size, because the flow is fast, I can do 200 ml in 7 minutes. #21 the cat doesn't usually even feel it go in, but it takes a long time to drip.

As the fluid pouch under the skin grows, you can gently lift the skin around the area to help it disperse, this keeps the skin from getting too tight and uncomfortable.

Do keep us updated on Aussie!

I use the Nipro 18 G needle with Coco and she even purr when she has the fluids.
I sit on the couch with her and my husband holds the bag.
What brand of fluids are they?
How often do you give the fluids?

Thanks all! I forgot to clarify that I do use the Terumo needles (the one recommended on that great sub-q site) and that's definitely not a concern. I have tried warming the fluids once and it didn't help so I stopped. I will try that again tonight. I'm using Lactated Ringers which I read is less painful to administer. I'll also try pulling the skin a bit so it doesn't get too tight.

Unfortunately, I live alone and don't have anyone to help with this. That's why I bought the restraint bag. My boyfriend is coming over tonight so I'm going to have him help me this once. I'm going to try the blanket wrap to see if that helps until the bag arrives on Monday.

Thank you all again! Hugs!

I used to hang the bag on a hook by the sink and put a towel down in the sink and put Bud in there. That way I could lean over him to keep him still and still have both hands free. Worked good for me...

I had Winkin a few years ago, and I would rest him on the vanity with a towel around him, hang the fluid bag, have a sink of hot water, and let the tube lie in the water and heat the fluids as it dripped. He would always lay very still while I rubbed his head, never any squirming.
Best of luck to you
Bobby
and the Gang

Originally Posted by Ryffian

I'd keep trying it with warmed fluids. If the fluids have always been room temperature, Aussie may anticipate that uncomfortable feeling, so it will take several rounds with warmed fluids before she decides "hey, this isn't so bad after all."

Good luck!!

Click to expand...

...........

Oh yeah you definitely need to warm the fluids, not too hot or they will burn the cat, but cold fluids is just plain uncomfortable and lowers the body temperature! My cat hisses and gets mad at me many of the times I give her sq fluids, but if I just use one hand to hold the needle in and scruff her gently while gently shaking/vibrating her head from side to side, she still grumbles but doesn't struggle as much. It looks and sounds mean, but it's really not (so long as you do it gently, not harshly, of course), it's just a great way to distract them from what's going on.

Another thing you can do that is like a restraint bag is to cut a hole in a towel big enough for her head to fit through but no other part of her body. Put her head through the hole so you can use the towel to restrain her better and sometimes it makes them feel more secure. Then put in the needle and hold her there! Talk to her softly and say nice things to her while it's going on. Tell her you know it's no fun, but it's for her own good darnit!

How much are you giving and how often?

I've always used the 19G x 1 inch Terumo needles and much preferred them to the 18G longer ones. Less risk of poking through the skin tent. It really makes little difference in terms of flow rate, too. I order mine, a box of 100, from a local medical supply place (for humans; don't even require a prescription, that's here in Canada, or at least where I live).

My angel cat Taco was a doll when it came to subQ fluids; he was so compliant and cooperative......but my old angel CRF kitty BeeJoo, and my recent angel (CRF) kitty Tigger, not so much.

I, too, live alone, and had to come up with a way to give the fluids while keeping kitty from running away, in light of only having 2 hands! LOL

Here's what I did and it worked so well:

1. Get yourself a nice big fluffy cat bed or dog pillow. Place it against a wall.

2. Put a nail on the wall about 3 feet up the wall directly above pillow; hang your fluid bag from this.

3. Ensure you have everything ready to go (new needle, no air in the line, etc) before bringing cat over to the pillow with you.

4. Kneel down on the pillow, with you facing the wall........then sit down so that your butt cheeks are sitting atop your heels. Place cat in between your thighs...ensuring there is only enough room between you/the cat and the wall.....in other words, cat would be facing the wall and blocked by the wall. Having cat between your thighs helps to prevent cat from wiggling out, either to the side...and being so close to the wall prevents cat from wiggling out forward.

5. As you're giving the fluids (I never warmed mine; I'd read it was a little controversial perhaps to submerse the IV bag in warm water to warm inside fluids; the heat could maybe cause some leaching of chemicals from the plastic (or whatever the actual bag is made of) IV bag itself), pull up on the fluid pouch and jiggle it while the fluids are going in, to help it disperse the fluids better and lessen there being a large "lump" from the fluids that can be uncomfortable to the cat, due to their skin being stretched.

So essentially I'd have one hand securing the cat, and the other jiggling the skin-tent area.

If kitty hisses, that's okay............Tigger would always hiss and act like she was dyyyyyyyyying. As hard as it is to hear our cat in distress, you just have to do your best to ignore it and proceed. As noisy and owly Tigger would get while I'd be doing it, within 5 minutes of it being over, she was coming around for scratches so no long term trauma, at least not with her.

Thanks again to all. I did warm the fluids Friday night and set her up in the kitchen at standing level so that helped a bit. I put a towel in the sink and barriers all around so she wouldn't try to get out. She still squirmed and cried but it was definitely a lot better. My restraint bag should be here today so hopefully it will work great and no more worries.

I do have another question for the group. I have noticed that many times the drip really slows down. What are the tricks for getting things to flow as quickly as possible? There is no air in the lines and the drip water line is where it should be (half-filled). The tech told me the higher the bag, the faster the flow so I'm going to try to raise it some. I do notice that the line gets a bit pinched in between rounds so I always rub the pinched line to help open it up. Anything else I could do to get it to flow fast? It's not the needles since it will go really fast at times, but not always. The faster I can get it in, the better. Thanks again!

Originally Posted by mews2much

That happens with Coco also.
It will get stuck.
The higher you hold the bag the faster it will go.
Sometimes you have to play with the switch to get it to go fast again.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I also find I have to move the needle a little at times as well. Friday night I tried pulling her skin away from the needle some and that seemed to help a bit. I will try to go higher with the bag tonight.

I hope that works for you.
How old is she?

She's 11.5 years old. I'm SO MAD! I just checked on my restraint bag via FedEx and it shows that it was delivered today...to the local US postal office. UGH! After that it says to allow another 2-3 days for delivery. I can't believe it!

That is to long.
I hope it will make it easier for you.
Coco is 17.1 years old and I have been doing fluids for a year.

Yes, you usually will have to unpinch the tube where the cincher thing is.

Sometimes you have to turn the needle a bit to get the flow going again. Keep lifting her skin to help the fluids disperse, This will keep her more comfortable, and keep the fluids flowing quickly.

It takes me 7 minutes from poke to finish to do 150 mls. That is with a #18 one inch needle and a standard drip line.

Don't be alarmed if some squirts back out after you finish. It's normal.

Don't be alarmed if you see a tinge of pink in those drips that squirt back out. Just means the needle scraped the inside of the skin a bit. I had that happen only twice in 3 years of it, but thought I would mention it since you have a squirmer.

By the way. I always purchase fluids by the case from my local pharmacy, it saved me hundreds. One case of 12 bags cost $22-$24 through the pharmacy, the price per bag at the vet is up to $24! Needles and the sets, too.

Have your vet write you a prescription. Check with your pharmacy to make sure they'll do it. I get all my cats' maintenance meds through my phamacy.

My Vet charges $100 for 1 fluid bag and I.V. Set Up.
Thriving Pets where I get Cocos fluids from is $120 for 12 fluid bags and 12 I.V. set ups altogther.
It saves alot of money ordering online.