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Adopter wants to declaw - should I deny or approve?  

post #1 of 113
12/17/09 at 9:41pm
Thread Starter 
I have a dilemma and I need someone else's input on it. I run a small cat rescue and I currently have several kittens up for adoption. I have a litter that is about 4 months old and I haven't had much interest in any of them at all. A couple of days ago I got an email inquireing about one of these kittens, Emile. Emile is a mainly black medium long haired kitten with a white bib and a white stripe on the side of his mouth. He's go an awesome personality and I think he's adorable but unfortunately he's not the most adoptable kitten. Now that he's getting bigger it will get even harder to find him a home.

Today I got the application back from the couple that are interested in Emile. They seem really good and they have another cat which is a must for a cat like Emile. They answered all the questions the way I'd like them to. All except for one - the question about declawing.
The question on the application is "How do you feel about declawing?" and the four possible answers are "Absolutely necessary" "Only if destructive" "Only as a last resort" and "Completely opposed to it". They chose "Absolutely necessary".
I think declawing is a very unecessary and painful procedure that robs the cat of a natural behavior that is important to him. But then I'm wondering if maybe I could live with it if he gets a good home. I plan on emailing the couple to give them some info on declawing and ways to handle scratching without declawing and I hope that they listen and change their minds. But what if they don't? Should I turn them down then and hope that another good home comes along for Emile or should I let them adopt him anyway?

Please tell me what you think I should do.

Thanks
post #2 of 113
12/17/09 at 9:52pm
I vote turn them down.
post #3 of 113
12/17/09 at 9:52pm
I'd deny them instantly. There's no way I'd ever give a cat to a person who wants to have it declawed.
post #4 of 113
12/17/09 at 10:21pm
I vote do not let them have the kitten.
Sorry I have seen very nice cats turn very mean after being declawed and they were sent back to the pound.
post #5 of 113
12/17/09 at 10:53pm
Deny! Deny! Deny!!
post #6 of 113
12/17/09 at 11:01pm
I say Deny, but the sad thing is that they will get a cat and declaw it anyways...
post #7 of 113
12/17/09 at 11:24pm
I would find out why they think it's absolutely necessary, perhaps it's just always been done and the are not fully educated on the procedure or side effects.
post #8 of 113
12/17/09 at 11:29pm
Try to educate them. Some people just won't listen to reason, but it's worth a shot. If they agree to use Soft Paws or something as an alternative to declawing, then I would probably approve them.
post #9 of 113
12/18/09 at 12:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerOnTheProwl View Post
Try to educate them. Some people just won't listen to reason, but it's worth a shot. If they agree to use Soft Paws or something as an alternative to declawing, then I would probably approve them.
Yeah I agree with you and Missymotus. If they arent convinced by your arguments (you can tell them that it is TCS arguments if it feels easier for you), tell them about these Soft Paws. It is a OK compromise for the cat AND the owner. They tell Soft Pawns works quite well in all aspects.
post #10 of 113
12/18/09 at 1:07am
I agree to try and educate first and if it doesnt work then the only option would be to deny
post #11 of 113
12/18/09 at 3:56am
Most people just are not aware, I would speak to them and find out why they think that before making any decisions.

tbh a lot of cats who are adopted out with a no declaw clause in the adoption contract are declawed, they come in to the shelter sometimes with all of their paperwork from when they were adopted or bought from a breeder and the no declaw clause is initialled on the contracts. Most adoption contracts are not worth the paper they are written on
post #12 of 113
12/18/09 at 4:16am
I'd say find out why they think it's necessary, and see if they're open to other options. Will you be meeting them in person? It might give you more insight into them. Also, what are the other options for the cat? Will you be able to keep Emile until he finds a home?
post #13 of 113
12/18/09 at 5:57am
I agree I would speak with them why they think declawing is a must.
A lot of people just don't know what is involved in declawing, they think it is just like clipping a nail. I have educated many people who were shocked to learn the truth of it and are now as against it as we here are.
If after speaking to them they do not change thier minds, I would say deny them. I know you want the kitty to go to a good home, but that is a price I would not be wiling to pay.
post #14 of 113
12/18/09 at 6:19am
I agree with the others and that you find out why they want to declaw. I was turned down for the same reason even after I told them I would not declaw because the only reason I said I would was because I thought all indoor cats were declawed. When growing up our cats were always declawed as well as all my friends. Now that I know better I do not declaw so maybe that is the case here. Maybe once educated they will change their minds.

**The shelter that refused me still won't adopt to me. To them it's better for their animals to grow up in cages with little to no human contact.
post #15 of 113
12/18/09 at 7:21am
You know, I'm going to go contrary to the crowd here, to some extent. I'd find out why they want to declaw the cat, but considering you're talking about a black cat with some adoption problems, I would say a declawed cat in a happy home with caring parents, good food, a warm place to sleep, all are better than living his life in a cage or being put to sleep in a shelter or living his life on the street. I know those are not in his future currently, but things change, and to quote a number of politicians in the last week, "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good."
post #16 of 113
12/18/09 at 7:34am
I am going against the crowd also... I would say if everything else is ideal then go ahead and adopt him out. BUT of course try education first, try to convince them of other options and alternatives. If that fails and the declawing issue is the only thing in the way, go for it. This kitty may have a home with you until a more perfect candidate comes along, but that means another kitty can't be in his place.

I know that the board is totally against declawing (as I am myself now) however in the household I grew up in all cats were declawed and that was just how things worked. Both of my boys are declawed and are still wonderful, happy kitties. If I could turn back time I would not have had either of them declawed, but I wouldn't reject a great home for any kitty just based on the procedure.
post #17 of 113
12/18/09 at 7:36am
I have one prejudice on the declawing issue. Cats that come into the shelter, either stray or surrenders, are kept a lot longer (usually until they're adopted) if they are declawed.
post #18 of 113
12/18/09 at 7:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
You know, I'm going to go contrary to the crowd here, to some extent. I'd find out why they want to declaw the cat, but considering you're talking about a black cat with some adoption problems, I would say a declawed cat in a happy home with caring parents, good food, a warm place to sleep, all are better than living his life in a cage or being put to sleep in a shelter or living his life on the street. I know those are not in his future currently, but things change, and to quote a number of politicians in the last week, "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good."
I am in pretty close agreement with mrblanche. Definitely at least discuss the declawing issue with them. As posters have already stated, many people just aren't educated about declawing. Is Emile trained to use a scratching post? Is he used to having his nails trimmed? If so, definitely let them know. One of the big things I focus on with my fosters is teaching them to use appropriate scratching posts/mats/etc. and getting them accustomed to regular nail trims. When people adopt my fosters I tell them exactly what their scratching preferences are and suggest a particular type of scratching post for them to buy and how to ensure they use it along with giving a nail trimming tutorial.

Maybe you can change these potential adopters mind about declawing. If they are still insistent that it is necessary but you truly believe they would provide a loving forever home, then you have to weigh the pros and cons of Emile being adopted but declawed, or keeping his claws but there being the potential of him not finding a home.
post #19 of 113
12/18/09 at 7:52am
Lizita, may I ask why the cat is not very adoptable?
I would tend to agree, reluctantly, that declawing and an otherwise good home is better than no home, but it would help to know what the issues are with Emile. Declawing may just make things worse.
post #20 of 113
12/18/09 at 7:58am
What if it is declawed and he sand ends up back in tartes biting like my aunts cat did the pound.
I have seen that happen so many times.
post #21 of 113
12/18/09 at 8:07am
I am totally against declawing, but I will tell you from expierence one of two things happens if you deny everyone that wants to declaw.

1. They will tell you they are not going to and then do it anyway.

2. It becomes extreemly difficult to get kittens adopted.

I agree that I believe in educating them, but sometimes there is just nothing you can do to stop someone from declawing.
post #22 of 113
12/18/09 at 8:21am
I vote asking why they think it's necessary, then polite education, and showing that the cat does use his scratching post and how easy it is to trim his claws. Then if they still are firm on declawing.... I don't know what I would do.

When we got our kitten this year, there were many folks (usually older) that were like 'so you getting him declawed when neutered?' and they were in SHOCK that we said no. And they were in shock he hasn't destroyed furniture... and that we're not covered in scratches. And they now know that you don't need to declaw a cat. I think there's assumptions "it has to be done!! OMG the furniture! the kids!" and then when people realize ... "your cat seriously has claws? I can't tell at all!!!" it makes them think different. (That said, it's usually people who don't actually have cats that are shocked they are not declawed... or people who don't know that it is amputation!!!!) It's just interesting... I don't know how declawing got ingrained in heads as this necessity decades ago... but I think that's part of the problem.

Good luck with this.
post #23 of 113
12/18/09 at 9:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by killerapple View Post
I don't know how declawing got ingrained in heads as this necessity decades ago...
Vets.....they figured out that de-clawing is pure profit, and they can charge as much as they want for it and, since it's purely for the owner's benefit, not feel guilty (many vets do feel guilty about charging too much for spays/neuters, since those are necessary), and so they started pushing de-claws. At least that's been my experience.

I don't know what I would do in the OP's situation. Last time I re-homed kittens (9 years ago), I didn't ask about their plans for de-clawing, but I did include printouts of de-clawing.com info in their paperwork. I did turn one girl down because she TOLD me straight out she was going to have him de-clawed, and maybe not neutered, and she already had a de-clawed intact tomcat....NO WAY!

I suppose in most cases de-clawing is better than being put down for lack of a home, but not in all cases. Some cats are so traumatized from the de-clawing that a humane death would definitely have been better. And you have no way of knowing how a cat will respond until afterward.....bad situation all around. Hard choices to be made.
post #24 of 113
12/18/09 at 9:53am
If you start making exceptions for declawing just to get cats adopted what else will it lead to? Adopting cats to questionable homes just because you want them in any home? What if you become known for being easy to get cats from?

IMO if you don't stand by your rules and policies it's not even worth having them in the first place.

Like said here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by icklemiss21 View Post
Most adoption contracts are not worth the paper they are written on
Do you want your's to be the same way?
post #25 of 113
12/18/09 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by strange_wings View Post
Do you want your's to be the same way?
Its not about wanting to enforce them, its about having the legal standing to - we have tried to enforce adoption contracts before when someone tried to give us kittens from a cat he adopted from us as a kitten. Our vets will not do pediatric spay/neuters, we have JUST got them to come down to 4 months instead of 5 so do we keep all kittens until they are 5 months old and not rescue others?

It is the same for us with declawing, we will try our best to educate people on what it actually is, talk to them about scratching posts and softpaws etc - but even if they tell us they will not and declaw them, there is nothing we can do.

As mentioned, the majority of people just don't know so denying them outright rather than educating doesnt serve to increase the number of people who know what it really is, fostering the environment of people who just think it is what is done.
post #26 of 113
12/18/09 at 1:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by icklemiss21 View Post
Its not about wanting to enforce them, its about having the legal standing to - we have tried to enforce adoption contracts before when someone tried to give us kittens from a cat he adopted from us as a kitten. Our vets will not do pediatric spay/neuters, we have JUST got them to come down to 4 months instead of 5 so do we keep all kittens until they are 5 months old and not rescue others?
Does the vet know how much trouble this causes? If so, maybe they'd like to take in that litter of kittens... Is there not another vet willing to do them younger?

And I didn't mean suing, I meant stating one thing in the contract and telling the people another.
There's nothing wrong with educating, and hopefully that works in this case. But others are suggesting to just let a cat go just for the sake of getting it out, even knowing that the people could completely intend to declaw. There's no point in putting no declawing in the contract if you tell the people it's ok to do it - you might as well tell them the cats adopted can be outdoor only or even used as bait.
post #27 of 113
12/18/09 at 3:30pm
Of course I would try to educate like many have suggested, but if they were still set on declawing I would not let them adopt. I couldn't stand to knowingly allow a kitten to be adopted out to be mutilated.
post #28 of 113
12/18/09 at 5:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by strange_wings View Post
Does the vet know how much trouble this causes? If so, maybe they'd like to take in that litter of kittens... Is there not another vet willing to do them younger?

And I didn't mean suing, I meant stating one thing in the contract and telling the people another.
There's nothing wrong with educating, and hopefully that works in this case. But others are suggesting to just let a cat go just for the sake of getting it out, even knowing that the people could completely intend to declaw. There's no point in putting no declawing in the contract if you tell the people it's ok to do it - you might as well tell them the cats adopted can be outdoor only or even used as bait.
All 12 vets in the city are quite happy to tell you the dangers of pediatric spay / neuters, it has not been endorsed by Canadian vet associations in the same way as American vet associations and the vets here tend to stick to exactly what the vet colleges say.

Even the vet I use for feral spay / neuters wont do anything under 4 months.

As far as saying one thing and the contract stating something else, I agree. We do not have a no declawing clause in our adoption contracts but the decision was made that it is better to allow them to go to good homes where a small percentage are declawed than not be able to help as many animals since the other agency closed down and animal control simply can not keep up with the strays in our city. We do ask, and will not adopt out adults who are to be declawed, but the shelter has even taken declawed a cat (Autumn) in an effort to make her less aggressive and more adoptable so it would be hypocritical to say that others can not
post #29 of 113
12/18/09 at 5:29pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks a lot for all the replies. This is really a tough one since these people seem so good in every other way. I was so happy that someone was interested in Emile and I thought their application looked so good so when I saw the answer to the declaw question I was so dissapointed. I think that Emile could have a good life in this home if he could only keep his toes. I was thinking though that so many cats are declawed and live decent lives so maybe Emile could do the same. But the more I've thought about it I just can't do it. I've seen cats come out of being declawed at the vet's office and it looks so horrible with all their paws bandaged and you know they are in pain. They can't even scratch their litter in the litter box for weeks because their paws are so sore. I just can't do that to my Emile. I will find him another home if I don't feel confident that I have changed these people's mind.

There is nothing at all wrong with Emile. He's a wonderful little guy with plenty of playful energy and he loves to cuddle. He uses his scratching posts just fine and I haven't had any behavioral problems with him. Unfortunately though people are really superficial and they only want the light colored unique looking kittens. I have recieved countless applications for my little Siamese kitten but none for Emile and his brother. And I know it will get harder as he gets bigger. But I managed to place an adult cat with major fear issues in a wonderful home and if I can place her I can place Emile. I just have to get a bit more proactive like I was with her.

I'm working on an email to the potential adopters about what declawing really is and I hope they pay attention. But if they don't that's okay. They won't get my baby. Unfortunately they will adopt some other kitten who will have his paws mutilated.

Thanks for helping me make this decision. It really helps to have other people's take on a situation.
post #30 of 113
12/18/09 at 6:03pm
I'd send them the anti-declawing info (I use a very good website for this that has saved a few kitties claws!). If they had checked off "only as a very last resort" I might consider this as they would not do it unless there was no other choice.

But since they do plan on doing it without giving the kitty a chance, then no I would not adopt to them.
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