CD dry food still prescription?

Originally Posted by SummerMH

I'm curious to know which food you switched to, the one that didn't work? I've been researching Azmira, which clearly states their food has been tested as safe & effective for kitties with FLUTD. I just can't stand all the crappy ingredients in C/D, and with 2 other (healthy) kitties in the house, makes me sick that they're all eating it.

thanks,
Summer

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I tried the Wellness. On their website they stated that feeding wellness promotes a healthy urine pH and prevents crystal formation.

<edit> I have just gone back to the wellness website (I was going to copy over their claims) and I see they have (finally) removed the claim about preventing crystal formation...Interesting.... I wonder how many people had to write and complain for them to do that. I was one of them.

From the Current Wellness Website

Urinary Tract Health:

All formulas focus on the number one reason cats go to the vet and the biggest concern cited by consumers - Urinary Tract Health.
\tAchieve the consistent urine pH of 6.1 to 6.6, with a Standard Error of Mean (SEM) of less than 0.10.
\t
\tLimit the amount of magnesium in the diet to further minimize risk.
\t
\tPromote a healthy urinary tract environment with 3 types of cranberries.

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http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/cat_w...dry_index.html

Tolly and Jennie are still eating the Wellness but Mazy has had to go back to the c/d kibble. I really want to get her on a canned food, but she won't eat the c/d canned (nor do I want her to). The Royal Canin SO canned has better ingredients, but the numbers are higher, the phosphorous for instance is 1.5 compared to Hill's .68.

I've written to Royal Canin about my concerns over that. Hope to hear back soon. I really really want Mazy on an 80/20 canned food diet like my other two cats are.

I just don't know what to do. So far, the only thing that keeps Mazy crystal free is Hills Prescription c/d. She's very lively and healthy, teeth are clean and strong (I brush them every night with c.e.t. toothpaste) Her poops are low odor and classic size and shape for a cat. Her coat is not as soft and glossy as it was for the two months she was on the wellness, but she is also shedding LESS on the c/d than she was on the wellness.

So she is doing well on it. I just would like her to have canned food. She loves it so....(except the c/d canned that is. but I don't love the c/d canned either ugh!) She's not a good drinker, either.

In another thread I started last night, Sharky suggested a prescription line called Wysong, and the ingredients look really great. I plan on asking my vet about it. http://www.wysong.net/products/ureti...l-cat-food.php

Originally Posted by SummerMH

In another thread I started last night, Sharky suggested a prescription line called Wysong, and the ingredients look really great. I plan on asking my vet about it. http://www.wysong.net/products/ureti...l-cat-food.php

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Thank you for the link. They don't list all the things I need to know in their GA. They don't list phosphorous, magnesium, ash, sodium or calcium percentages. All these are important to be much LOWER than normal for cats with FLUTD

When I have more time I'll contact them and ask.

just ran across this VERY interesting article regarding prescription diets, dry foods vs. canned, and UTI's http://www.catinfo.org/feline_urinar...cription_Diets

Otto
In regards to phos levels ... were they both min or max or was the .68 min and the 1.5 max?

Originally Posted by SummerMH

just ran across this VERY interesting article regarding prescription diets, dry foods vs. canned, and UTI's http://www.catinfo.org/feline_urinar...cription_Diets

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thank you for this interesting link. I read it.

from the link

Instead of reflexively reaching for the prescription diets when patients present with urinary tract issues, I would like to see the emphasis switch to getting the patient off of all dry food and onto canned food with added water.

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Unfortunately I already tried this with Mazy, with the Wellness canned, (and I have been in the habit of adding water to my cats' food for years.) She still presented with struvite and phosphorous, after two months on the all canned, mostly grain free diet. The c/d seems to be the only thing that keeps her urine crystal free. BIG SIGH.

What is it exactly about the CD that makes it so effective? Is it the lower Magnesium and/or Phosphorous that, for whatever reason, no other food is mimicking? Or something else? I just really think that my kitties' skin issues could start turning around if he was on a better diet, but of course I can't risk the UTI's. Hello rock, meet hard place!

Originally Posted by SummerMH

What is it exactly about the CD that makes it so effective? Is it the lower Magnesium and/or Phosphorous that, for whatever reason, no other food is mimicking? Or something else? I just really think that my kitties' skin issues could start turning around if he was on a better diet, but of course I can't risk the UTI's. Hello rock, meet hard place!

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Yes the minerals and the exact levels have something to do with it .. Mostly it is the fact the Hills TESTED and TESTED it and Validated that it works..

Originally Posted by sharky

Otto
In regards to phos levels ... were they both min or max or was the .68 min and the 1.5 max?

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no min or max on either food, just the values. Dry matter, both listed with values, after water is removed. Apparently that's the new thing now, but it makes it complicated, because others don't list things that way, so it makes comparisons difficult. Magnesium and calcium are also significantly higher.

These are canned comparisons I am doing, because I wanted to try the canned Royal Canin SO. But I don't like those numbers.

However the dry c/d that Mazy is on has the same percentage values of these minerals as the c/d canned.

I didn't see a canned for Wysong.

Originally Posted by SummerMH

What is it exactly about the CD that makes it so effective? Is it the lower Magnesium and/or Phosphorous that, for whatever reason, no other food is mimicking? Or something else? I just really think that my kitties' skin issues could start turning around if he was on a better diet, but of course I can't risk the UTI's. Hello rock, meet hard place!

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It is partly the very low mineral content, and the fact that the main protein source is corn gluten rather than meat. All I know is the food is designed specifically to maintain a crystal free urine, and for Mazy it is doing that, when nothing else I've tried has.

I can't keep switching foods on her and then dragging her to the vet to have more urine taken out, then switching back and so on and so forth. It's too stressful for her, and I am not an endless source of money, not to mention the time involved. I don't begrudge my vet bills, don't take me wrong, I spend thousands a year at the vet. But I just can't take all this back and forthing.

I hate it that she's on this food, but it has proven to be the only thing that keeps her urinary tract healthy. So..it's the lesser of two evils. Quality of life is more important. And she is happy, healthy and energetic on this food. She doesn't gain weight because I schedule feed AND schedule exercise.

For the long term view...perhaps there will be health problems later that she could have avoided if she was on a better diet. But I will deal with than when it comes. I just can't see any other option. Raw, which I have had pushed down my throat elsewhere, (not here) is NOT an option, for me.

Otto can you link those ... NOT that I can figure it out but I would like to see this new format

Originally Posted by sharky

Otto can you link those ... NOT that I can figure it out

but I would like to see this new format

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http://www.royalcanin.us/adx/aspx/ad...dog_100209.pdf

^^
the RC is a PDF file, scroll down to the second page, note they have dry and canned side by side in the same chart (I was looking at the dry before, the phosphorous for the canned is even higher 2%!)

http://www.hillspet.com/products/pre...ne-canned.html

^^
Hills multicare c/d canned Link takes you to the main page for the product, click on "Average Nutrient and Caloric analysis"

I have them open in two tabs, so I can switch back and forth to compare.

the royal canin chart you linked is for dogs... I assume the cat has a different analysis?

here's the Royal Canin Urinary SO document for cats... http://www.royalcanin.us/adx/aspx/ad...cat_100209.pdf

thank you ... a BIG note on the SO it says one of the CONTRADICTIONS is Concurrent use of a acidfier...


the RC is a analysis per 1000 calories which is approx 6 cans worth ...

1.7 divide 6 = .28 so each can has roughly 1/3 of a gram ...

each can by wt is 170 grams ...

so the real amount of calcium is well under 1 %

http://www.hillspet.com/products/pre...ne-canned.html


Canned 1044 kcal/kg ( 162.864 kcal/per 156g can)

apples to apples the formulas are likely close to =

Originally Posted by sharky

thank you ... a BIG note on the SO it says one of the CONTRADICTIONS is Concurrent use of a acidfier...

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what does that mean? I don't like that the RC canned contains byproducts, just like the Hills, which is one thing I'm trying to get away from for overall health. The RC dry does not contain byproducts.

Originally Posted by SummerMH

what does that mean? I don't like that the RC canned contains byproducts, just like the Hills, which is one thing I'm trying to get away from for overall health. The RC dry does not contain byproducts.

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It is saying NOT to use the RX food with an additional acidifier... many are saying they use the rx and acidifier

By products in a wet food IMHO are not to bad , I like them better than whole grains or multiple grains and veggies

In a dry I totally understand wanting to get away

So, if I ask my vet about switching to a wet food, and if it's not "prescription" for UTD, best to look for zero grains and zero veggies? My cat never had stones, just the crystals (if that matters). Looks like Wellness has a new canned food called "Core." No grains or veggies and 20% more protein than their other canned versions. http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/cat_w...e_chicken.html

Summer

Originally Posted by SummerMH

here's the Royal Canin Urinary SO document for cats... http://www.royalcanin.us/adx/aspx/ad...cat_100209.pdf

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Oh! thanks. (you ever notice, every single pet food website starts with DOGS?)

However the numbers under discussion aren't that much different, and still too high for my comfort.

I guess Mazy is just stuck with the c/d multicare kibble until someone comes up with something better.

thanks for your help!

Originally Posted by SummerMH

So, if I ask my vet about switching to a wet food, and if it's not "prescription" for UTD, best to look for zero grains and zero veggies? My cat never had stones, just the crystals (if that matters). Looks like Wellness has a new canned food called "Core." No grains or veggies and 20% more protein than their other canned versions. http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/cat_w...e_chicken.html

Summer

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yes I've seen the core. The GA isn't listed though.

I know there are a lot of articles saying it's not about the pH,it's not about the mineral content and so on. But the fact remains that Mazy was on a canned diet when her trouble started, and when she went on the c/d multicare kibble, her urine stayed crystal free, three years later I again tried her on an all canned (non prescription) diet with a so called higher quality food, and the crystals came back. Back on the Hills c/d multicare, crystals gone. I am very frustrated that she has to eat this food, but I guess I will just have to accept what works for her is not going to be the best.