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Buying a kitten overseas...Need advice please!

post #1 of 64
10/7/09 at 2:15am
Thread Starter 
I am in the US and I am importing a kitten from Russia. Obviously, this is going to be a very costly thing, so I want everything to go smoothly. I was the one who initially contacted the breeder inquiring about her kittens and she warned me it would be very costly and to check out local breeders first. For various reasons (not important), I finally decided to buy from her and we have talked about everything so far.

As far as payment goes, of course I have to pay her the full amount before she'd even think of letting the kitten go. She went to her bank in Russia and opened a US bank account there and gave me all the information to it, including account number. I believe I am supposed to go to my bank and transfer the money into the account. BEFORE I do that, however, I want to know if there is anything I should do to save my butt in case something goes wrong.

E.g. In the case that I do NOT receive the kitten and whatever else could happen. Basically, I am more concerned about not receiving the kitten and having paid her the full amount. I would be out a lot of $$$.

I can ask her for a receipt, but I would get that AFTER she receives the money. Anything else I can do or is this just going to be a big risk and I have to trust that the breeder will do right? I have been speaking to her for weeks now via email and she is not fishy by any means (very honest), but I am a paranoid individual in general, so I can't help but think the worst of everything. Thanks!!!
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post #2 of 64
10/7/09 at 2:23am
Can you ask other breeders if she has a good reputation? We have a few Ocicat Yahoo groups and sometimes people will ask or warn about other breeders.

ETA, you can also ask judges. Many judges travel around the world, and may know of the person you are dealing with.
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post #3 of 64
10/7/09 at 2:24am
You are pretty much completely out of luck once you pay the $$ to her. This is an extremely risky transaction... Is there a reason for it, like this breed not being available in the US at all?
I have never seen a contract that has been able to be carried through internationally. Sure, you can write whatever you want into it - enforcing it is a whole other thing. So.... All I can say is pray that you get your kitty, and good luck with that. I have seen plenty of people getting "scammed" out of their $$$ in here in the US by less than honest breeders, and the customers being left with nowhere to run for help.... Imagine in an international transaction.... Oh boy...

ETA: I am not saying this person is a scam, but IF she is, you are completely unprotected, and there is really no way to know it, IMHO.
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post #4 of 64
10/7/09 at 2:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by enamored View Post
I have been speaking to her for weeks now via email and she is not fishy by any means (very honest), but I am a paranoid individual in general, so I can't help but think the worst of everything. Thanks!!!
Just one more thing: Anyone can be anything on the net.... especially for $$$. I do not know this person, but do not assume she is very honest when you only know her by email....
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post #5 of 64
10/7/09 at 2:51am
Thread Starter 
Now I'm even more paranoid I am going to email some of the other Russian breeders to ask them. But I see that they have this breeder saved as a friend on Facebook, too, so I don't know if they're friends already. Other than that, I don't know how to get in contact with the judges.

It is a colorpoint Scottish Fold in a very beautiful color and the US does not have this color because it is not allowed in CFA shows. CFA does not believe that colorpoints are natural for folds and that they must have been bred with another breed to obtain that color... The breeder told me that all her cats have colorpoints in their genes and that they will not be allowed in CFA shows. TICA is ok with it.

It's not the price of the kitten that is expensive, it's on par with the rest of the show quality kitten prices here in US; it's the shipping that kills it.
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post #6 of 64
10/7/09 at 2:58am
If TICA is ok with it, you should be able to find a breeder in the US, and would be much much safer that way...
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post #7 of 64
10/7/09 at 3:04am
Thread Starter 
I looked everywhere for months before, but did not find a breeder that had this color. It is a silver shaded green eyed. I will look and ask around again as I agree I would be much more confident, but I really don't think I can find one. Thanks !
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post #8 of 64
10/7/09 at 3:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by enamored View Post
I looked everywhere for months before, but did not find a breeder that had this color. It is a silver shaded green eyed. I will look and ask around again as I agree I would be much more confident, but I really don't think I can find one. Thanks !
A member here has one of those... I don't remeber if it is a fold ot a Brit Shorthair... GORGEOUS... I don't think she is in the US either...
Anyways, good luck!!
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post #9 of 64
10/7/09 at 4:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinalima View Post
A member here has one of those... I don't remeber if it is a fold ot a Brit Shorthair... GORGEOUS... I don't think she is in the US either...
Anyways, good luck!!
That would be me. I have a black silver shaded BSH. And I have his son, silver spotted Scottish Fold. As you can see from my location, I'm in Finland which is right next to Russia.
May I ask what cattery are you getting your kitten from? Drop me a PM. I've been surfing on many many catteries sites from Europe and Russia, and I can help with choosing good lines if pedigree matters to you, as I own (and soon breed) silvers and colorpoints.

I'm also importing a kitten (BLH from Germany), but we haven't yet discussed how the payment will be made. My friend is flying with the kitten so maybe I'll give the money to her and pay in cash when she meets the breeder. (And make two 'receipts' which will be signed by the breeder and on my behalf by my friend.)
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post #10 of 64
10/7/09 at 4:49am
Up to you to buy what you feel you want, but IMO if the cat can only be shown in one association (I don't believe that colorpoint is accepted in ACFA either), you may want to reconsider.

I'd rather buy a cat that can compete in at least 2 associations if not all of them. I think the chocolate bicolor BSH's are pretty cool, but its not an accepted color choice in CFA or ACFA and this is where I show and register.
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post #11 of 64
10/7/09 at 5:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Up to you to buy what you feel you want, but IMO if the cat can only be shown in one association (I don't believe that colorpoint is accepted in ACFA either), you may want to reconsider.
Why should the cat be shown in different associations? They may have different standards to even body built so I think that's a bit odd.
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post #12 of 64
10/7/09 at 7:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernGlow View Post
That would be me. I have a black silver shaded BSH. And I have his son, silver spotted Scottish Fold. As you can see from my location, I'm in Finland which is right next to Russia.
May I ask what cattery are you getting your kitten from? Drop me a PM. I've been surfing on many many catteries sites from Europe and Russia, and I can help with choosing good lines if pedigree matters to you, as I own (and soon breed) silvers and colorpoints.

I'm also importing a kitten (BLH from Germany), but we haven't yet discussed how the payment will be made. My friend is flying with the kitten so maybe I'll give the money to her and pay in cash when she meets the breeder. (And make two 'receipts' which will be signed by the breeder and on my behalf by my friend.)
I know!!! I had found you from my thread about BSH, and sent your information to him by PM... By this time he probably already contacted you... Thank NG!
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post #13 of 64
10/7/09 at 8:04am
For the most part, in the USA CFA, TICA and ACFA have the same standards to judge the cats. Some breeds (like Bengals) are only accepted in TICA or ACFA. Others may accept some colors but not all.

Here, you should be able to compete in all associations with a quality cat (say Persian). My Cornish Rex was a Grand Champion in CFA, ACFA and unofficially TICA. My Ocicat will be granded in both CFA and ACFA too.

Some breeders only show in one association and that is fine, but most others can take their cats to several with no problem.
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post #14 of 64
10/7/09 at 8:35am
You do not have to buy cats in the colors your want in order to breed those colors. As a new breeder, you should focus on type and then later work on developing the color. If you are working with a color that is not allowed in all associations, you should be aware of the fact that there will be breeders who will refuse to work with you.

I would suggest flying out to Russia to meet this breeder and if the cat is acceptable, bring it back home with you. If not. . . then at least you got to travel! I also would not want to send a cat alone on such a long international flight. Too much could go wrong, and the cargo hold can be traumatic to the cat.
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post #15 of 64
10/7/09 at 9:39am
Good points
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post #16 of 64
10/7/09 at 10:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisCat View Post
You do not have to buy cats in the colors your want in order to breed those colors. As a new breeder, you should focus on type and then later work on developing the color. If you are working with a color that is not allowed in all associations, you should be aware of the fact that there will be breeders who will refuse to work with you.
The OP has chosen a kitten whose color is accepted in all(?) associations so there shouldn't be a problem. I however have chosen color (and breed) which is only accepted in TICA atm. Even these things haven't turned any of my breeder friends away from me and they don't see it as a problem, few are actually now even more interested working with me. But maybe we are a bit different here in Europe..
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post #17 of 64
10/7/09 at 10:34am
Pointed, Chocolate and Lilac are not legit colors for a SF in ACFA or CFA.
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post #18 of 64
10/7/09 at 10:37am
Yeah I know, the OP has chosen a shaded silver. If the kitten doesn't have colorpoints in X amount of generations, CFA should accept it, right?

I forgot to add to my previous post that of course type is more important than color, but when you can combine two cats of excellent type but not the wanted color and the result is the color hoped for, I don't see a problem in it (i.e. silverpoints).
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post #19 of 64
10/7/09 at 11:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by enamored View Post
It is a colorpoint Scottish Fold in a very beautiful color and the US does not have this color because it is not allowed in CFA shows. CFA does not believe that colorpoints are natural for folds and that they must have been bred with another breed to obtain that color... The breeder told me that all her cats have colorpoints in their genes and that they will not be allowed in CFA shows. TICA is ok with it.
Northernglow, above is exactly what the OP wrote. The cat is not of a color accepted by CFA according to their post. CFA is an international organization, and thus also present in Europe. While you may be fortunate enough to not have encountered any breeders who refuse to work with you based upon the colors of your cats, I can assure you that they are out there and sooner or later you will encounter them.

I am not familair with CFA's registration policies for the Folds, but you can expect to have to have to have the pedigrees free of colorpoints, chocolates, and lilacs for 5-8 generations.
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post #20 of 64
10/7/09 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisCat View Post
Northernglow, above is exactly what the OP wrote. The cat is not of a color accepted by CFA according to their post. CFA is an international organization, and thus also present in Europe. While you may be fortunate enough to not have encountered any breeders who refuse to work with you based upon the colors of your cats, I can assure you that they are out there and sooner or later you will encounter them.

I am not familair with CFA's registration policies for the Folds, but you can expect to have to have to have the pedigrees free of colorpoints, chocolates, and lilacs for 5-8 generations.
Well, in the picture she/he sent me, the cat is black silver shaded, has colorpoints in pedigree though. And this cat is going to be a pet, not a breeding cat.

As for my own situation, I know there are some people who doesn't like the fact that I have a scottish fold, or that I'm importing a cat of 'forbidden' color. But these people are only familiar with Fifé and thus are very prejudgemental about anything outside of fifé-world. Gladly there are lots of breeders in Sweden and Russia who I can also work with. They have had other associations besides Fifé, for long time, and are much more open minded.
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post #21 of 64
10/7/09 at 12:31pm
This is actually more about international business than it is about cats. My husband is an international business consultant. Because of my colateral knowledge of how to import without getting screwed, I would recommend one of these methods of payment:

1. Go to your bank (one that deals with international transactions) and ask about providing a Letter of Credit, or

2. Pay for your transaction via credit card (Visa or Mastercard only), and make sure it is a credit card and not a debit card, or

3. Use a service such as PayPal

You want to be sure that the money is held for the transaction, but does not actually change hands until you receive the healthy kitten.
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post #22 of 64
10/7/09 at 12:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty's Mom View Post
You want to be sure that the money is held for the transaction, but does not actually change hands until you receive the healthy kitten.
No breeder will work like that, they require all money cleared from the bank before the kitten leaves. They will not wait until the kitten has arrived at destination.
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post #23 of 64
10/7/09 at 3:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernGlow View Post
Well, in the picture she/he sent me, the cat is black silver shaded, has colorpoints in pedigree though. And this cat is going to be a pet, not a breeding cat.
This wasn't information that the OP originally gave us. I presumed that the OP was talking about a breeding cat as I've never heard of someone importing a cat from such a distance as a pet--only breeding cats. I'd strongly consider the amount of stress such a long international flight would have on a kitten. I would also be rather wary of any breeder who is willing to send a kitten unescorted on such a long flight. I would not send any of my cats or kittens overseas unescorted.
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post #24 of 64
10/7/09 at 3:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by missymotus View Post
No breeder will work like that, they require all money cleared from the bank before the kitten leaves. They will not wait until the kitten has arrived at destination.
The beauty of working with a credit card is that you can always dispute the transaction. Can't do that with a wire transfer or a debit card.
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post #25 of 64
10/7/09 at 4:42pm
I was under the impression the SF was being bought as a breeding cat - not as a pet. If the SF is a colorpoint and the color is not accepted in most associations, it makes no sense at all to be buying the cat for your breeding program.

If it was being bought as a pet, it still makes no sense to import a cat just as a pet.

Maybe the OP can clarify as to exactly why they want to buy a colorpoint SF?
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post #26 of 64
10/7/09 at 4:53pm
^
This is what the OP wrote on the first page about the color.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enamored View Post
I looked everywhere for months before, but did not find a breeder that had this color. It is a silver shaded green eyed.
IMO pet comes always before breeding, i.e. if you imported a cat of your dreams with breeding rights but the cat would turn out to be unable to breed, would you get rid of it?
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post #27 of 64
10/7/09 at 7:12pm
I wouldn't - it would just become a loved pet. But I'd be doing a heck of a lot of research into everything before investing.
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post #28 of 64
10/7/09 at 7:55pm
As breeders, we always have to be conscious of the number of cats we have in our programs as opposed to the number of cats we are able to care for effectively. Everybody has their own magic number and there is no right answer to that very loaded question. However, the cats that are not in my breeding program are the first in line to leave my home. It's a harsh reality. New kittens are always on the horizon, and I have to keep that in mind at all times. I've cried for days after letting my precious alters leave, but I knew that they would be much happier as pets compared to being one of several cats in my home.

So in short, it is very likely that I would pet out a costly imported cat for the price of a spay/neuter if the cat were unable to contribute to my program. I have a responsibility to my cats to keep my numbers low to minimize stress and maximize care. It's a difficult balancing act, and it doesn't always leave me feeling too good. But I know that I am making their lives better, and I am also making a new pet owner very, very happy.
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post #29 of 64
10/7/09 at 8:57pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your comments. I was really only concerned about the process of purchasing an import and how to be sure I'm safe. That's why I said in the first post that the various reasons why I decided on a Russian kitten is not important - I didn't want to get into all this. Was simply concerned about the import and transportation issue. Regardless of a pet or breeder, cats still get shipped overseas all the time. For me personally, I don't place more value on a show/breeder vs pet, so the time and effort is worth it to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
If it was being bought as a pet, it still makes no sense to import a cat just as a pet.
I appreciate your input and concern, but why not? Is it because of the cost for me or the stress for the kitten? What if the cost is not an issue? Do you mean to say that the stress is more worth it if the cat were being used as a breeder because he would be serving a better purpose than "just a pet"? But a pet to me is equally as important....this is a being that I'm going to spend the next 10+ years with. In my mind, it makes sense.
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post #30 of 64
10/8/09 at 3:15am
I also thought it was a breeding cat, that explains why you don't know other breeders or judges.

I know several breeders who've exported "just pets", to Hong Kong and Hawaii. Not something I would do, a colour point Brit would be much the same

Hope it all works out, if you go ahead.
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