CRF cat, near the end...?

jackbombay · Jan 20, 2009

He was restless overnight, but slept ok, got up with me the morning, drank a fair bit of water, and has had eaten as well.

I just talked with the vet and we are going to switch the antibiotic to what he was on before, everything else the same, I just gave him the pepcid and the sub-q is warming up now.

pat · Jan 20, 2009

Originally Posted by jackbombay

He was restless overnight, but slept ok, got up with me the morning, drank a fair bit of water, and has had eaten as well.

I just talked with the vet and we are going to switch the antibiotic to what he was on before, everything else the same, I just gave him the pepcid and the sub-q is warming up now.

Yup...was wondering if he was reacting to his antibiotic...btw, as you get his potassium level up, he will feel better...sounds like a good plan (i can tell the support list is helping, and hopefully, we are too!)

skritiches to your panther,

jackbombay · Feb 8, 2009

UPdate.

Jack is doing pretty well, he has put on almost a full pound since he was last at the vet!

Today he caught his first mouse since he was diagnosed with CRF, Jack hangs out around the base of large bushes where there is just a bit of exposed dirt (lots of snow here still), and waits. I found the stomach and head of the mouse on the walk way leading up to the house, he was hunting when we left on a cross country ski. Ho many mg of phos binder should I give him per mouse?

Once we get to spring I'll actually start adding phos binder to his morning capsule as he typically eats 2 mice a day through the spring summer and fall.

mews2much · Feb 8, 2009

I am glad he is feeling better.
I ordered Coco a phos binder yesterday and Miralax.
I hope she gaines weight like Jack is.

jackbombay · Feb 8, 2009

Originally Posted by mews2much

I am glad he is feeling better.
I ordered Coco a phos binder yesterday and Miralax.
I hope she gaines weight like Jack is.

I think the biggest reason Jack has been gaining weight is from the pepcid we give him every morning. He gets one #3 pill capsule in the AM with 1/4 of a 10mg pepcid in it along with some Jarrows B100. He vomits very rarely with the pepcid. I think his stomach was quite acidic before as he really wasn't eating much, the pepcid has really made a difference.

While Jack is up to 10 pounds, he is still quite skinny, but it seems like he should put on a few more pounds over time at this rate. He used to be 15 pounds, not much fat, even at 10 pounds he is a STRONG cat.

Here he is working hard on the window sill after working in the yard

mews2much · Feb 8, 2009

Do you think I should give Coco the Pepcid every day now?
I have not been giving it everyday.
Jack is a nice looking cat.
Coco will be 17 any day.
She used to weigh 10 pounds and weighs 6.2 now.
How many times a wek are you doing sub q's?

jackbombay · Feb 8, 2009

We were doing 100ml everyday, but he was getting a little grumpy about the needle that often so we are now doing 200ml every other day. At first we were doing it on our lap (he loves a lap) but he was really resisting.

One day I had poked him and he squirmed away from me, but only went 3' to the window sill and laid down there in the sun, so I just poked him again there and he was fine with it,didn't complain/resist at all. I put 200 ml in him, pulled the needle out, gave him a bunch of pets and he purred and took a nap there.

Since then we;ve done all his sub-q's with him on the window sill.

Jack is only 11 :-/

Is Coco vomiting much? Do you notice if she eats more on the day you give ther the pepcid vs the next day? If she eats more the day you give here the Pepcid it seems like everyday would be the way to go, but I would talk it over with your vet. Are you giving her a 1/4 of a tablet? As she weighs quite a bit less than Jack a 1/4 every other day could be fine, I actually don't know how long it stays in their system.

mews2much · Feb 8, 2009

I am giving compounded pepcid to her.
I noticed she eats more right after she has sub q's.
I am doing 150 ml every other day.
She purred on friday when I gave her sub q's.
I sit her on a blanket and then give them.
The pepcid does help her.

pookie-poo · Feb 8, 2009

Thanks for the update. I'm so happy that Jack seems to be responding so well to treatment! Keep up the good work!!!

nance · Feb 8, 2009

When I was giving my cat sq fluids my vet told me to make sure and not give to much and overwhelm the kidney's...If I am remembering correct it was 10 to 20 ml's per kg of weight ?...mine at the most was getting 100 mls a day...Can they tolerate more ?

mews2much · Feb 8, 2009

Coco gets 150 ml and the fluid is gone by the next day.

jackbombay · Feb 8, 2009

Originally Posted by Nance

When I was giving my cat sq fluids my vet told me to make sure and not give to much and overwhelm the kidney's...If I am remembering correct it was 10 to 20 ml's per kg of weight ?...mine at the most was getting 100 mls a day...Can they tolerate more ?

They can take quite a bit f the sub-q fluids as it isn't absorbed really quick, IV fluids they can get too much of because its right into their blood. I'm not sure of ml per kg numbers, but Jack is 10 pounds and the vet said it would be fine to give him 300ml every other day for sure, 200ml every other day seems to be fine for now. If his next blod test is worse than his last we'll consider upping the ml's then.

pookie-poo · Feb 9, 2009

Originally Posted by jackbombay

They can take quite a bit f the sub-q fluids as it isn't absorbed really quick, IV fluids they can get too much of because its right into their blood. I'm not sure of ml per kg numbers, but Jack is 10 pounds and the vet said it would be fine to give him 300ml every other day for sure, 200ml every other day seems to be fine for now. If his next blod test is worse than his last we'll consider upping the ml's then.

I would absolutely disagree with your vet's suggestion of 300 ml every other day. The very last thing you want to do is put your cat into congestive heart failure. It would be FAR better to err on the side of caution and give only 100 to 150 mls per fluid session. Give small amounts more frequently, avoid CHF, and keep the hydration at a more even keel. Ten pounds is not a large cat. I don't give Cleo more than 100 mls/session, and she's 12.5 pounds. If you notice that the fluid hasn't been absorbed within 24 hours, and your cat has wheezing, or open mouthed breathing, or forced respirations, that is a true medical emergency, and you must take him to an emergency vet immediately. These symptoms can rapidly turn into congestive heart failure, which can be fatal. I don't want to scare you (or maybe I do!) but watching a cat die of congestive heart failure, where they literally drown from the fluid around their heart and in their lungs, is a positively gruesome sight, and one that you won't soon forget!

mews2much · Feb 9, 2009

Do you think 150 is to much for Coco. She weighs 6.2 pounds.

momofmany · Feb 9, 2009

If you think that the amount of subq fluids is inappropriate, then I suggest that you talk to your vet and if you don't trust your vet, to get a second opinion. No one on this forum should cause you to change the medical treatment that your vet has prescribed. We are all going on the experiences we've been thru, which is unique to our situations.

pookie-poo · Feb 9, 2009

Originally Posted by Momofmany

If you think that the amount of subq fluids is inappropriate, then I suggest that you talk to your vet and if you don't trust your vet, to get a second opinion. No one on this forum should cause you to change the medical treatment that your vet has prescribed. We are all going on the experiences we've been thru, which is unique to our situations.

I agree whole heartedly! There's never any harm in getting a second opinion! It also can't hurt to discuss fluid overload with your vet any time that subQ or IV fluids are implemented. People need to know exactly what to watch for, and how to respond.

pat · Feb 9, 2009

Originally Posted by Pookie-poo

I agree whole heartedly! There's never any harm in getting a second opinion! It also can't hurt to discuss fluid overload with your vet any time that subQ or IV fluids are implemented. People need to know exactly what to watch for, and how to respond.

Exactly, and thank you for the points you made. I would, personally, not feel comfortable giving my cats more than 100 to 150 ml of fluid in a day.

jackbombay · Feb 9, 2009

I certainly see the benefit of dong 100ml everyday as opposed to 200ml every other day, but Jack was not happy with the daily needle pokes (we do have terumo needles which he complains less about than the monoject) so we switched it up to 200ml every other day. 24 hours after the sub-q all 200mls are absorbed.

FWIW, Jack is doing really well, I gave him 200ml this morning and he jumped into my arms from the ground twice before I had to leave this afternoon for a couple of weeks (my wife is still home and will be giving him all the care/sub-qs/pills he needs while I am gone).

You can encourage Jack to jump into your arms just about anytime, but often times he'll walk up to you and make it clear he wants to jump into your arms, but he hasn't done that for several weeks, until today, it made me feel a lot better about leaving knowing that he is doing so well

mews2much · Feb 9, 2009

I am gald he is doing ok.
I am waiting for teh stuff I ordered to com.
Coco has the 18 g needles.
We have to go get more fluids from the tomorrow.
Its 40 per bag.

jackbombay · Feb 10, 2009

Originally Posted by mews2much

Its 40 per bag.

Eeekkkk! You are getting some in your order I assume? $5 from our vet.

CRF cat, near the end...?

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