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Are my whites going to turn pointed? Mia's Litter Question

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
Helloo!

I have been able to sex the kittens.

All the orange/whites are male 3 total
One orange is male the other is female
Both whites are female

So! Now that I know the sex, does that help you awesome gene-ologists determine a) the color of the dad/dads and b) whether the whites will stay white? They still have NO hint of color and are just as white as mom. Texture is different, but white non-the-less

Just wondering! Thanks so much!
post #2 of 28
Honestly, I'm guessing the dad was white. In that case they probably won't be pointed, but it's sure fun trying to guess, isn't it? The whole litter is just the cutest I've seen, though! Congrats!
post #3 of 28
It is quite late for me to be up (or early if you want to look at it from the other angle!) so my logic may not be 100% but off the top of my head:

If you have red (ie orange) females, it means both parents had red on them. Red is sex-linked on the X chromosome so to get a red female you either need red male x red female, or red male x tortie female.

One of the parents at least had white spotting - most likely both if the kittens are more than 60% white, if not then assume one parent was bicolour.

If mum is white all over then I would assume from her litter that she is dominant white which in this case is masking either red or tortie genes (and possibly white spotting too), but carrying non-white, as some of the kittens have colour. Dominant white covers up all other colours, but they can still be passed on to kittens.

I would guess that the white kittens will be dominant white and will stay white. There is a small possibility that both parents carry colourpoint in which case they could turn out to be red point (in the US I believe this is called flame point?) kittens, if so it will start to show in a few weeks.

But that tbh is unlikely if mum is dominant white carrying non-white, you would expect the white to be passed to some of the litter.

Dad was almost certainly a red or red & white cat.
post #4 of 28
So if the kittens are Dominant white (which I was thinking) would they have green eyes? I thought the mom was red & white, so that's why I was thinking white dad. Certainly either red & white, red, or white, LOL.

Case in point, my feral stray, Elsa is black, so I was assuming black, tortie, or tabby kittens. I got black, brown tabby, torbie, and pure white. That made me think that there was a brown tabby male dad, AND a pure white male.
post #5 of 28
Twould be best if you post pics of mom and babies here!
post #6 of 28
Thread Starter 
My bad! I thought all had seen the pics by now. lol I have been spaming the forums with them. lol

GLADLY!!



Here's the litter! ALMOST 2 weeks old now.

Also, how can you tell if they will be long hair? Short hair? Double or single coat? lol

post #7 of 28
IMO your whites will remain white and all the babies look shorthair to me
post #8 of 28
If the kittens remain white by a month old, they will be white. Since mom's a red/white and all kittens are also red and/or red/white (except the two all white) then dad is a red (as you have a solid red in there). The white kittens have a different father (white).

They look all shorthair to me and probably a medium type of thickness.
post #9 of 28
Thread Starter 
Yay!

I have ALWAYS wanted a white kitty. My grandma had a huge soft spot for her white cat who went out one day and never came back. (the risk of having indoor/outdoor cats) She was sad for years, even though she had about 5 other cats.

I loved that cat too. She was so sweet and sooo pretty.

Plus, I will FINALLY be able to put a pink collar on one of my kitties!!! Hubby wouldn't HEAR of it with the other two! But with a white girl kitty, even he can't argue that it's the best color!

we will see, either way, no matter what color they turn out, I am so excited and will love her the same.

I wish I could keep the entire litter.
post #10 of 28
Want to see how well my attempt at a pink collar went?
post #11 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastnoc View Post
Want to see how well my attempt at a pink collar went?
LOL I just saw this pic in the cat picture forum and laughed! I wondered if you had been attempting that pink collar.

I will be going for a much more muted pink, not unlike her nose and pawpads. So MAYBE I can sneak it by her. She had to see that shocking pink collar coming from a mile away! You should get her while she is asleep, that way she can't see it once it's on and won't know the difference.
post #12 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
If the kittens remain white by a month old, they will be white. Since mom's a red/white and all kittens are also red and/or red/white (except the two all white) then dad is a red (as you have a solid red in there). The white kittens have a different father (white).

They look all shorthair to me and probably a medium type of thickness.
So dad couldn't be red and white, and mom red and white and make white babies?
post #13 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastnoc View Post
Want to see how well my attempt at a pink collar went?
You should enter this one in the September photo contest.
post #14 of 28
I took your advice and did that. heheh I hadn't even thought about that one! thanks!
post #15 of 28
If both parents have color they cannot produce an all white kitten. One or both parents have to be all white.

Think of it as white washing a kitten - the kitten is painted all white but genetically they carry a color - and only when bred do you find out which color (unless you know the pedigree). The white kittens could be carrying red or tortie (if the white father was "black" under the white).
post #16 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yarra View Post
I will be going for a much more muted pink, not unlike her nose and pawpads.
there are some pretty pale pink ones here: Ragtime Collars
she even makes 'kitten' sizes!
post #17 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Since mom's a red/white and all kittens are also red and/or red/white (except the two all white) then dad is a red (as you have a solid red in there).
This isnt true. The dad could've been white (but carrying the red gene masked by the all white gene.) While it is totally possible that there are two fathers responsible for this litter, it is also totally plausible that the father for all of these kittens was white, but definitely a red-gene carrier since yuo have red females!

At two weeks old, I will venture to guess that they are not pointed, in my experience, at least a hint of color would be showing on the ears (at least) by now. Of course, I've never had a flame point, perhaps the "red" shows up later and more subtly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kluchetta View Post
So dad couldn't be red and white, and mom red and white and make white babies?
Correct, if you see a white kitten, you know at least one of the parents were white. Same if you get a polydactyl kitten. Since the gene is dominant, it will give you a look into the parents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Think of it as white washing a kitten - the kitten is painted all white but genetically they carry a color
This is a good way of explaining it!

PS - can you tell I just learned how to multi-quote? I love it!
post #18 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by laureen227 View Post
there are some pretty pale pink ones here: Ragtime Collars
she even makes 'kitten' sizes!
OH MY GOSH! Thanks SO much for this link!! Now I know why I want a white cat so badly! I think I have an OCD and like thing to match. I also have an accessory fetish, SO with a white cat, i can buy every single one of those dang collars and they will still match my cat!

LOL

Poor Little Boy and Polly are stuck with Black collars all the time. lol I can just see having a different collar every day for a white kitty.

I need help...
post #19 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marianjela View Post
This isnt true. The dad could've been white (but carrying the red gene masked by the all white gene.) While it is totally possible that there are two fathers responsible for this litter, it is also totally plausible that the father for all of these kittens was white, but definitely a red-gene carrier since yuo have red females!

At two weeks old, I will venture to guess that they are not pointed, in my experience, at least a hint of color would be showing on the ears (at least) by now. Of course, I've never had a flame point, perhaps the "red" shows up later and more subtly.


Correct, if you see a white kitten, you know at least one of the parents were white. Same if you get a polydactyl kitten. Since the gene is dominant, it will give you a look into the parents.


This is a good way of explaining it!

PS - can you tell I just learned how to multi-quote? I love it!
This is SO helpful! Thank you!

Now, with white kitties, how often are they deaf or blind? When can you start to tell that they might be?
post #20 of 28
All white cats can have a tendency to be deaf (not where you got the idea of blindness but its not true - blue eyed whites are more sensitive to bright light but not blind).

I found out that bicolor cats can carry a "deaf" gene that is passed on when bred to white cats. I had a gold-eye white kitten that I had no idea she was deaf till the owner told me after being tested by her vet (I got the kitten back as she didn't want it after that).

It then dawned on me why she never really came when being called and why she would scream when she "lost" you in another room. She was hard to "wake up".

You can test the kittens in a few ways. Put the kitten by itself in a room (like the bathroom) and make a loud noise behind the kitten - be sure the kitten cannot see you moving. Use keys, a small pot/pan, or clapping. If the kitten startles or turns to look, you know its not deaf. If the kitten continues to ignore you, then its probably deaf.
post #21 of 28
There is a link between white fur, blue eyes and deafness. The eye color is made from the same stem cells as melanocytes (he skin/fur color cells).

The blue eyes in a white cat suggests the absence of this cell. Deafness is caused by the same missing cell layer in the inner ear.

In odd-eyed white cats, the ear on the blue-eyed side may be deaf, but the one on the other side usually has normal hearing. So when the kitten is being formed genetically, the white masking gene can sometime penetrate deep enough to effect the eye color and sometimes go even deeper, affecting the hearing. So depending on how far the gene breaks through, will determine the eye color first, then deafness. And it’s individual on both sides. Hence the odd-eyes. That said it is still possible to get an deaf cat without blue-eyes – which suggests that sometimes the gene doesn’t always work in that order.

At any rate, I have found studies that suggest 60-80% of white cats with blue eyes are deaf. But on the other spectrum, only 10-20% of white cats with other eye color are deaf. The incidence of white cats with blue or odd eyes is 15-40% (broad statistical range huh? )

There are members on here (Kluchetta for one) that have deaf cats. They do best in multiple cat households, but what they lack in hearing they make up for in other areas!

I so look forward to watching your kitties grow! I have been waiting for a foster to cross my door step that produces a white kitten, but since only about 5% of the cat population is white, I might be waiting awhile Oh well, it's probably best this way.... Anymore cats and I will have to move to my own zip code!
post #22 of 28
My deaf gold eyed white was out of a odd-eye female and black/white male. That's how I found out about the bicolors being the one that probably caused the deafness - not my odd-eye girl. She was out of color and whites carrying the pointed gene cats - none of which were deaf.
post #23 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marianjela View Post
I so look forward to watching your kitties grow! I have been waiting for a foster to cross my door step that produces a white kitten, but since only about 5% of the cat population is white, I might be waiting awhile Oh well, it's probably best this way.... Anymore cats and I will have to move to my own zip code!
I have an extra white kitty ya know.

post #24 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yarra View Post
I have an extra white kitty ya know.

Oh dont tempt me! I think my hubby would hang me. I suppose I am going to have to live vicariously through you!!!
post #25 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yarra View Post
OH MY GOSH! Thanks SO much for this link!! Now I know why I want a white cat so badly! I think I have an OCD and like thing to match. I also have an accessory fetish, SO with a white cat, i can buy every single one of those dang collars and they will still match my cat!
mine each have a collar from there - i love them! Pixel's is red w/black paws, Cable has black w/white hearts & pink paws, Chip has mini flames [he's such a guy!], Java has a rainbow paisley that's no longer available, & Firefox has black w/green & blue flowers. i have 1 extra - a orange butterfly one. originally got it for Java, didn't like how it looked on her. Firefox wore it for a while before i got hers.
post #26 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by laureen227 View Post
mine each have a collar from there - i love them! Pixel's is red w/black paws, Cable has black w/white hearts & pink paws, Chip has mini flames [he's such a guy!], Java has a rainbow paisley that's no longer available, & Firefox has black w/green & blue flowers. i have 1 extra - a orange butterfly one. originally got it for Java, didn't like how it looked on her. Firefox wore it for a while before i got hers.
You are BAD! I have picked out my faves. I might end up getting all of them. lol Here are the fabrics:


http://www.ragtimepetcollars.com/PopUp/dscf2164B.jpg
http://www.ragtimepetcollars.com/Pop...nesontealB.jpg
http://www.ragtimepetcollars.com/PopUp/dscf3025B.jpg
http://www.ragtimepetcollars.com/PopUp/dscf2201B.jpg
http://www.ragtimepetcollars.com/PopUp/dscf3833B.jpg
http://www.ragtimepetcollars.com/PopUp/dscf0027B.jpg
Love love LOVE this one:
http://www.ragtimepetcollars.com/PopUp/dscf0307B.jpg
http://www.ragtimepetcollars.com/PopUp/dscf0725B.jpg
http://www.ragtimepetcollars.com/PopUp/dscf2102B.jpg
http://www.ragtimepetcollars.com/PopUp/dscf3002B.jpg
http://www.ragtimepetcollars.com/PopUp/dscf3836B.jpg
http://www.ragtimepetcollars.com/PopUp/dscf0730B.jpg
http://www.ragtimepetcollars.com/PopUp/dscf0970B.jpg

Jordan MIGHT be ok with this one for Polly. If not, I love it for Emma (Our new white girl)
http://www.ragtimepetcollars.com/Pop...llsonpinkB.jpg

For LB
http://www.ragtimepetcollars.com/PopUp/dscf2129B.jpg
post #27 of 28
that pale pink w/the little hearts is really cute. i also remember seeing the one w/all of the pale pink flowers & liking it, as well.
i mostly looked at the pink ones, since you'd said that was what you were interested in.
post #28 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marianjela View Post
They do best in multiple cat households, but what they lack in hearing they make up for in other areas!
Actually, not always. My two deafies do not handle other cats very well - the hearing cats easily sneak up on them & scare them. Many shelters also have found some deaf cats do best in single cat homes....depends on if they are skittish or not, or if they were around cats a lot in their younger years. Part of Ophelia's issue is her nasty purr-sonality - I think she naturally hates cats.

I once had a favorite shelter girl - Matilda, Tilly....she was an odd eyed white. We knew she had hearing issues, and assumed they correlated to the "blue ear" as we called it. She had some mild hearing loss in both ears, not just the "blue ear". She was miserable at the shelter caged alone, so we housed her with another cat & she was adopted as #5.
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