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post #31 of 51
Royal Canin is pretty decent, but I'd definitely steer clear of any Science Diet foods. Sharky has posted a lot of threads on food qualities and choices.
post #32 of 51
It sounds like you are doing all the right things. Good for you!

It's always a big change to go from being independent to having something depending on you. It can seem like an overwhelming responsibility. But cats like their independence too. Having litter boxes he can easily get to and having water out all the time will let him take care of his needs without involving you, and this only gets better.

Two cats are actually easier than one. If only more people knew this! They play together, they consult on figuring you out, and they each take different responsibilities around the house, from monitoring the food dish to keeping track of your comings and goings. I think it's fascinating.

Right now you are the only social outlet the kitten has. Of course he's going to turn to you when he's lonely. If you decide to commit to this kitten, I think another kitten or cat would make things easier.

I would also consider your Significant Other's desires in this matter. I'm sure, being a person who likes pets, she wouldn't want to live without them forever, especially since neither of you are interested in children. So this is an investment in your future relationship. Don't create a difficult emotional situation without giving it your best.

The only thing you can do with kittens sometimes... is laugh. They are little nutballs, and that's what makes them so enjoyable.

I just have to share my experience with declawing; declawed cats turn in up in the shelter far out of their numerical proportion in the population. That's because I've never seen a cat react well to this crippling operation. It invariably has a negative effect on their attitude, their temperament, and their behavior. I would tell the vet to stick his money grubbing platitudes about "hominess" where the sun doesn't shine.

But that's just me.
post #33 of 51
I don't want to sound terrible by saying this, but original poster seems like somebody who is too set in ways to ever accept or enjoy a pet. (this is why you doesn't want kids too I guess) I am so sorry to hear stories where people get a pet then get aggravated with what is just very normal pet behavior and want to get rid of it. Consider the positive, that the kitten will grow up and become boring and slow, and that cats are much less maitenance than kids or dogs. Please give him another chance and try not to expect too much or pick too much, and I'm sure your girlfriend will know how to deal with him.
post #34 of 51
I can relate completely to the OP.

My husband and I decided 2 weeks ago to take on a stray kitten our friends from church found on their back porch. We had never discussed getting a cat, a puppy yes, children yes. I grew up in a dog only home (had some hamsters and fish) and he grew up in a home with an outside dog and never inside pets. I currently have 3 turtles but had never thought about adding another animal to our small townhouse.

Granted in the past year I have worked for a babysitting company where I go in multiple homes during the week. Many had cats and late at night they would come lay on the couch with me when the kids were in bed. I had only thought about getting one the week before our friends called.

I got married this summer and it was the first time I'd ever lived out of my parents house where we had a dog always. So after 3 months of living without a cuddly pet (turtles don't really cuddle) I couldn't stand it anymore.

Again Jack is here and he is about 12 weeks old. Although there are challenges both the husband and I love him to death. As I type he is laying on part of the keyboard of my laptop sound asleep.

He spent the first week contained to a small bathroom mainly due to fleas but by the end of four days he was consistent on the litter box. Now that he is exploring the house with supervision I couldn't imagine getting rid of him.

He bites wires, knocks everything off the coffee table and end tables, drinks out of our glasses, scratched my husband pretty good on the stomach, amongst many other things and I just laugh..

It's all you can do...have a sense of humor about it....

If you need uplifting thoughts PM me...I'm in the same boat

Leslie
post #35 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freezebyte View Post
1 To experience having a cat from kitten to full grown up
In this then, you've clearly accepted the responsibility of owning a kitten.

Growing up with a kitten, particularly if it's your first cat or pet, can be a *very* rewarding experience, but nothing is ever going to fully prepare you for *having* a kitten. Nobody's ever going to be able to tell you about it -- you just have to experience it for yourself first hand.

Quote:

2. We currently live together
The reason that I asked was in relation to whether or not both you and the kitten have exposure to her cats. In both cases, it's a good thing that you do. It strikes me as a bit odd under the circumstances that the kitten is showing signs of loneliness, so...

2(a). How does the kitten and the older cats get along?

Quote:

3. Kitten was from a humane society from another town about 60 miles away, I have records and pictures of mom, litter mates and immunizations and nuetering
That alone isn't necessarily enough information to tell you very much. Certain things, like whether or not the kitten was born outside and has now been brought inside, or what kind of environment the kitten had before going to the shelter, can be *very* important if the information is available to you (and usually it's not, unfortunately).

If you *don't* have this information, no problem. Your best bet is to treat him as though he was born "feral" and give him all the patience and love that you can.

Quote:

4. Upstairs and downstairs standard litterbox with Arm&Hammer ultra clump and odor reducing clay litter. Took to it right away, just still learning now how to "step" into his own poo, so amazingly, no accidents on the carpet.
It sounds as though the kitten might not have been "taught" how to use the litterbox? The older cats should help to take care of this to some extent, and scooping more often will make a big difference. After baby comes I plan on scooping every time I pass one of our litterboxes.

If I understand correctly, that's two litterboxes. For how many cats? I think I missed how many your DGF has.

Quote:

5. Currently feeding Purina Kitten chow as thats what he ate at Petsmart. Currently researching into the whole dry vs wet food debate to upgrade him to. Starting to feed him Nutro wet Kitten packaged food at evenings.
No comments from the peanut gallery. I like Purina One, personally, and have had great success with it I'll leave this one to the others.

Quote:

6. Have variety of jingle balls, fleece mice, paper balls and cardboard scratch pad with cat nip.
Do you have any interactive toys? Some cats seem to do better with interactive toys and human interaction, while others are more independent. Reagan is a good example of a cat who plays *really* well by herself, but Whisper needs one of us to "help" him along.
post #36 of 51
Thread Starter 
The girlfriend has only been home for 3 days since I got him. She hasn't spent more time with the kitten then that due to her job.

No idea about getting along with other cats though he was in his cage with an old kitten getting along just fine when I got him. Beyond that, I have no idea in regards to his early life conditions

The adoption label indicated "litter box trained" and he knew how to use it right away, he's just still "learning" according to my girlfriend. He is the only cat in the house.

Elaborate on "interactive"
post #37 of 51
Interactive... Like "cat teasers" (the toys on a stick... I can try to find some pictures if you need me to). Basically any toy that you can use to play *with* him.

The early start that a kitten gets can have a huge influence on the cat he becomes. I'm realizing this more and more with our "senior" cat, Whisper. It's really tough when you don't have a lot of information, and it definitely takes more patience unfortunately.

Young kittens do sometimes have litterbox trouble. It takes them some time to learn how to use it, and as young as your vet said he is, he's still going to need some practice. Make sure that the spots he gets when he "misses" the box are cleaned up well so that he doesn't have any incentive to use them again (we use white vinegar and it works brilliantly, but if you want to go with an enzyme cleaner, I'm told that works well too).
post #38 of 51
As far as toys I wanted to put in my 2 cents.

My cats and my daughters favorite toy is a ball that has a bell in it tied to a string. My daughters love it cause it makes noise. My cats love it b/c it makes noise. My girls will take the string and drag it around the house and the cats will chase it and stalk it. I also take the string with the ball and throw the ball across the room, wait for the cats to go after it and then sling it across to the other side of the room. cats love it. I like doing it and it gets them tuckered out before bed. Simple toy. Cost was about 50 cents to make. Besides if someone rings the bell inside the ball the cats come running to start a play session almost every time.

Another toy of sorts that cats like is having a cardboard box that has an opening or two for them to go an play in. Or you can put multiple boxes together and make a little house for them to explore. You can often change the configuration of the boxes to have a 'new' toy for your cat.

One toy my cats will play with from time to time is a string attached to a doorway. I put a string that goes mostly to the floor attached on top of a door jam. It is off to one side so no one will brush it if they go through the doorway. the cats will spy it from time to time and go and jump at it and paw at it and just have a good time.

So I am in the camp the simpler and cheaper the toy the more fun the cats can have and more fun you can have with your cats.

I am also under the 2 kitten rule. I have 2 11 month old cats. They love to play with each other if they desire to. Sometimes they will play with each other and run through the house and not even bother to play with us, even though we are trying to play with them. Oh and we have only had the cats for less than 3 weeks at my house
post #39 of 51
Quote:
Elaborate on "interactive"
Some kittens and cats prefer to have a playmate in their play, such as a human or another cat. They can have a mountain of toys, but will play with whatever you are "playing" with because they love the interaction between live beings.
post #40 of 51
Congratulations on your new cat!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freezebyte View Post
At times he can be so wonderful and cute, but other times his "cat" behavior just aggravates me. The fact of having cat poo and hair in my home is still something i'm trying to get used to. He's already had several "accidents" with the litter box and I had to clean it and him up and nearly vomited from the smell. Not a plus in my book.
When a kitten first comes home, it's very normal to have diarreah. This is a LOT worse smelling than it would normally be, obviously. The diarreah comes from new food and stress of being in a new home. As far as the litter box goes, there is a great product called Cat Attract and it's made by Dr. Elsey. I really recommend it for a new kitten who is having litterbox issues. Also, it is very common for people to not scoop the litterbox enough. It really should be done 2x a day, 1x at the least. A cat isn't going to want to use a litterbox that is messy. The smell really shouldn't be as bad as you are describing. Also, what are you feeding the kitten? A good quality food (instead of something you can just pick up at the grocery store) can make all the difference in the world in terms of smell. Also, being as young as Shadow is, he probably didn't have a mom to teach him how to do certain cat things (the litter box, cleaning himself, etc.). When a mom is there for the kittens, you won't adopt them out until at least 12 weeks old....so the fact that he's younger makes me think that maybe he didn't learn everything? Kittens also get socialiation from littermates at that young age. I adopted Chloe recently at 11/12 weeks (we're not sure exactly) but she was found at 4 weeks in the street by her foster mom and no mom cat. The foster mom's cat showed Chloe how to use the litterbox and how to groom herself. I would also do more research on your litter options and litterbox options because there are so many these days compared to say, 10 years ago. Litter boxes don't have to be this ugly stinky thing. Not saying they are going to be a work of art...but there are many products to help incorporate them into your home. Litterbox covers (whicker ones), wooden benches that have a hole for the cat to go in on the side and the bench lifts up and the litterbox is in there, etc. I don't think anyone hates litter boxes more than I do but I would rather have an extra box or two than have to deal with a cat not using any of them. Kittens don't have the bladder control that adult cats have also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freezebyte View Post
His random "kitten bursts" of energy really annoy when im trying to work on the computer or play video games or just want some time out. He starts chewing on my wiring at random times which results in a severe water blast from my water bottle which he tends to ignore half the time. His constant mewing whenever im in the kitchen or even in a different room was cute at first, but now its just....aggravating. Im really dreading when he starts to claw/shred stuff even though I have a scratch pad on standbye.
When I catch my cat trying to chew wires, I just pick them up and say NO. It works for me, it's worth trying. The hissing thing sounds like it's working for you, which is great! As far as the energy and attention needs, spend chunks of time during the day playing with him so that he will get tired out. My kitten (and I am willing to bet, all kittens) LOVE the feather teaser toys ("Da Bird"). They go CRAZY and you can really wear them out this way. Kittens just have a lot of energ and are curious little creatures. I say enjoy it now because as he gets older he will probably mellow out a LOT. I wish I had known my older cat as a kitten because now all she does is sleep and I wish I could play with her more or get her to do something.

I also recommend finding a new vet. Any vet that recommends declawing without even being asked about it is sketchy in my book.
post #41 of 51
Thread Starter 
Just got back from the cat only vet. She was really nice and helpful. He tested negative for Leukemia so thats good and she went ahead and gave him his second booster shot, so one more left plus rabies. I'm switching him to Royal Canin growth formula as we speak and because he was neutered early, she said to switch him to Adult food starting after the 1st of the new year.

I asked her about the whole wet vs dry debate and she states all she feeds is Royal Canin to her cats with wet as a treat. I asked about self dry feeding all day and then a nice wet meal for dinner and she stated that would be fine, so im gonna feed him Nutro Kitten wet packets at dinner time, he sure gobbles them up!

Also, she also pro declawing and states the whole cat changing behavior thing is over hyped and talked about. Her cats are declawed and has seen no behavior changes as a result. According to her, the medical procedures we develop for cats are for our benefit and the cats, neuter/spaying declawing falls into the same category as far as she's concerned, it results in more happy cats in more happy homes. She did state the few cautions about the procedure but stated they are rare and the earlier we do it when he's young, the better.

Her patients are 50/50 on their viewpoint.Some perfer to have claws for outdoor cats, some don't. Some have claws for indoor only, some don't etiher.

My girlfriend also firmly reminded me last night that she has sensative skin that scars easily so she would prefer him declawed when his old enough. She also has had clawed and declawed cats and over her life and stated no changes in her cats behavior.

So, sorry guys, you have your opinion and entitled to it for your cats well being and I have mine. But the vets a professional experience with cats of clients and of her own to back up her claim a bit more vs annonomous people posting on a forum stating their "opinion" in a cat forum.

For our sake and opinion, Shadow will be declawed next year.
post #42 of 51
Why can't you use Softpaws? From my understanding, they're much better. Personally, and I don't mean to be rude, if you're going to declaw your cat you should just give it up now and save it a LOT of pain.
post #43 of 51
One thing about cats is they can be in a lot of pain and not let on. That's why so often an illness isn't caught till it's too late. So your "declawed" cat may be in pain, even chronic pain, and you won't know.

I apologize if I'm misinterpreting, but your last post seems to be phrased somewhat rudely to everyone who answered your question and offered help-- that you requested.

To tell you the truth, I don't feel good at all about a vet who cooperates with clients declawing their outdoor cats, putting them at great risk. That doesn't sound to me a like a vet who puts the animal's best interests first and foremost. I don't interpret that as very sound judgement.

It's so easy to clip their claws on a regular basis, especially when you have them from a kitten. For anything, surgery should be the final option; isn't that standard medical practice?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Freezebyte View Post
Just got back from the cat only vet. She was really nice and helpful. He tested negative for Leukemia so thats good and she went ahead and gave him his second booster shot, so one more left plus rabies. I'm switching him to Royal Canin growth formula as we speak and because he was neutered early, she said to switch him to Adult food starting after the 1st of the new year.

I asked her about the whole wet vs dry debate and she states all she feeds is Royal Canin to her cats with wet as a treat. I asked about self dry feeding all day and then a nice wet meal for dinner and she stated that would be fine, so im gonna feed him Nutro Kitten wet packets at dinner time, he sure gobbles them up!

Also, she also pro declawing and states the whole cat changing behavior thing is over hyped and talked about. Her cats are declawed and has seen no behavior changes as a result. According to her, the medical procedures we develop for cats are for our benefit and the cats, neuter/spaying declawing falls into the same category as far as she's concerned, it results in more happy cats in more happy homes. She did state the few cautions about the procedure but stated they are rare and the earlier we do it when he's young, the better.

Her patients are 50/50 on their viewpoint.Some perfer to have claws for outdoor cats, some don't. Some have claws for indoor only, some don't etiher.

My girlfriend also firmly reminded me last night that she has sensative skin that scars easily so she would prefer him declawed when his old enough. She also has had clawed and declawed cats and over her life and stated no changes in her cats behavior.

So, sorry guys, you have your opinion and entitled to it for your cats well being and I have mine. But the vets a professional experience with cats of clients and of her own to back up her claim a bit more vs annonomous people posting on a forum stating their "opinion" in a cat forum.

For our sake and opinion, Shadow will be declawed next year.
post #44 of 51
Please try out softpaws first before you go ahead and mutilate your cat. It has to tell you something that the prodecure is illegal in most of the western world. That's not just random internet people talking on a forum.

Cats walk on their toes so when the tips of the toes are amputated (declawing doesn't just take the claws away it takes the first knuckle of the cats finger away so it's basically 10 amputations he has to go through) this changes how the cats walk which is one of the reason it is easier for them if it's done when they're young.

I.e a young animal is quicker at learning a new way to walk and adjusting to that new handicap. Anyway because of that declawed cats are more likely to get arthritis and other skeletal problems when they get older. This is also because they can't stretch properly if they don't have the claws to hook into a scratching post to really stretch.

There is also the possibility of a cat develping litterbox problems and other bad behavour like that if they've had the tips of their toes amputated.

Anyway if you do go ahead with it, please have him only declawed in the front, if you take away all his claws he won't be able to scratch himself, which is really not ok to do to a cat.

Also if you do go ahead with it you have to commit to the cat 100%. If he starts biting, becomes fearful, starts pooing and peeing outside of the litterbox, it happened almost certainly because of the prodecure you put him through. So it's your fault not the cats and you need to work with him and give him as good a life as he possibly can. Rather than take a perfectly healthy cat, "ruin" him and give him behavioural problems and then dump him in a shelter where no one will want him.

The bad things aren't quaranteed to happen and there are plenty of people with happy declawed cats, but why take the risk? Atleast give him the benefit of the doubt and not go through with it until it has shown to be a problem. Try out softclaws, use scratching posts, use toys to play with him rather than your hands etc.

I know you don't have to listen to me but please for the welfare of your cat consider the alternatives to declawing.
post #45 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freezebyte View Post
Just got back from the cat only vet. She was really nice and helpful. He tested negative for Leukemia so thats good and she went ahead and gave him his second booster shot, so one more left plus rabies. I'm switching him to Royal Canin growth formula as we speak and because he was neutered early, she said to switch him to Adult food starting after the 1st of the new year.

I asked her about the whole wet vs dry debate and she states all she feeds is Royal Canin to her cats with wet as a treat. I asked about self dry feeding all day and then a nice wet meal for dinner and she stated that would be fine, so im gonna feed him Nutro Kitten wet packets at dinner time, he sure gobbles them up!

Also, she also pro declawing and states the whole cat changing behavior thing is over hyped and talked about. Her cats are declawed and has seen no behavior changes as a result. According to her, the medical procedures we develop for cats are for our benefit and the cats, neuter/spaying declawing falls into the same category as far as she's concerned, it results in more happy cats in more happy homes. She did state the few cautions about the procedure but stated they are rare and the earlier we do it when he's young, the better.

Her patients are 50/50 on their viewpoint.Some perfer to have claws for outdoor cats, some don't. Some have claws for indoor only, some don't etiher.

My girlfriend also firmly reminded me last night that she has sensative skin that scars easily so she would prefer him declawed when his old enough. She also has had clawed and declawed cats and over her life and stated no changes in her cats behavior.

So, sorry guys, you have your opinion and entitled to it for your cats well being and I have mine. But the vets a professional experience with cats of clients and of her own to back up her claim a bit more vs annonomous people posting on a forum stating their "opinion" in a cat forum.

For our sake and opinion, Shadow will be declawed next year.
Just wanted to add my 2 cents. At the shelter last night was a beautiful cat. She had been adopted from this shelter as a kitten and the folks had signed the form agreeing not to de-claw (it's a no-declaw shelter). Well, they went ahead and had her de-clawed anyway. Now she is back at the shelter - reason? She won't use her litterbox anymore and her peeing on their dining room table was the last straw for them so they brought her back to the shelter. Now the shelter is trying to re-teach her to use the litterbox but have their doubts that she will now be adoptable and will probably live the rest of her life out at this shelter. I'm only thankful that the shelter took this kitty back even after these people did not honor their contract.

Then there is the sweet-faced little female who will rub against me and purr while I'm trying to clean her litter and then suddenly turn on me and bite. Yes, she also was de-clawed by her owner and now they don't want her because with her claws gone she has turned into a biter and the shelter doubts if she will ever be able to be adopted out.

Those are 2 perfect examples of what can happen with de-clawed cats.

All kittens can be rough and cause scratches until they are taught and learn not to. Bijou certainly left more than a few scratches on me. I started trimming his nails every week to make life easier for both of us. Now we have an adult Bijou who is extremely laid-back, gentle, and NEVER scratches or bites.

As for your vet, if she believes dry food is better with a wet food treat, then she is very lacking in knowledge so that would IMO account for her ignorance of the whole de-clawing issue as well.

You are right - it is your cat and you will do what you want to do. All we can do here is try to educate people on what can happen, what we've all learned through experience and time to be best for our cats. If you wish to accept that information, that's wonderful. If not, that is your choice.

AND, this is not just anonymous opinions - these are true experiences. Yes, there are those who have been lucky and not experienced problems with de-claws, but as the above poster says, if you do de-claw and your cat DOES develop problems, I hope you will honour your commitment to care for it for it's natural life and not dump it off at a shelter due to behaviour problems.
post #46 of 51
I want to add in also that neutering and spaying has benefits for the cats. They have less danger of certain cancers if neutered/spayed and the females can get uterus infections which can be fatal if left unspayed and going in and out of heat.

Declawing has no medical benefits whatsoever for the cat, it's purely for a humans benefit, so it really isn't right to equal the different surgeries.
post #47 of 51
You're not alone in being overwhelmed... pretty much every time you bring a new pet into a home, the first weeks are a rough adjustment period and it's common to have doubts. Things settle down after that. And there is the kitten factor... the kitten energy level can drive you insane, but it only lasts a year or two.

I'm really surprised to hear that any vet would recommend declawing for no reason. I suspect that your vet is looking to make the extra money that the procedure would entail.

Because the American Veterinary Medicine Association's position is that declawing "should be considered only after attempts have been made to prevent the cat from using its claws destructively or when its clawing presents a zoonotic risk for its owner(s)." Also, "Surgical declawing is not a medically necessary procedure for the cat in most cases."

See statement here:
http://www.avma.org/onlnews/javma/apr03/030415c.asp

So it's not just posters on a Web site (of which you are one). Vets as a whole are ambivalent about the procedure, as you can tell from the statement. They don't generally volunteer to do it for no reason.
post #48 of 51
Thread Starter 
Ok well, it seems this topic brings the debate to the level of abortion and needless to say, i've never seen anything good come out of internet debates of that scale other then huge flame wars. So with that said, I will go ahead and make this my final post on this forum and continue to find info on other forums.

Your opinion with your experience is warrantied and understood in regards to declawing, I will not ague with that. But judging from the lack of acceptance to declawing on this forum, I feel I could not flourish in this community with such a "biased" viewpoint.

I will simply take my viewpoint and leave you to raising of your cats your way, and raising mine my way.

Thank you and take care.


End of Line---------------
post #49 of 51
Poor kitten!

So much for trying to be helpful.
post #50 of 51
I definitely feel called to post about declawing--not on a soap box at all.

My husband was dead set on declawing Jack and had convinced me it was the best thing. We don't have much money and work hard for the things we own. Keeping them nice was something we wanted.

Then I realized that I have a 13 week old kitten who is a "blank slate" if you will. We have a benefit compared to someone with an adopted 6 year old cat on teaching proper behavior. We can mold this kitten before it learns the improper behavior

Last night I said to my husband lets talk about Jack and his behavior. He has been unbelieveably good. He has scratched the end of the couch a few times but the majority of his scratching is now done on the trunk of the christmas tree. He has only scratched my husband--and well what do you expect when you never have a shirt on to protect you from accidents. My husband agreed to first trying all of our options. In two weeks Jack will be neutered--but NOT declawed. We are promising to trim nails every two weeks without fail.

I ask that you try the same--dont' set it in your mind that he will be declawed--first agree to try teach him to do it in appropriate places.

Take advantage of his youth--that is what we are doing.

Leslie
post #51 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freezebyte View Post
Ok well, it seems this topic brings the debate to the level of abortion and needless to say, i've never seen anything good come out of internet debates of that scale other then huge flame wars. So with that said, I will go ahead and make this my final post on this forum and continue to find info on other forums.

Your opinion with your experience is warrantied and understood in regards to declawing, I will not ague with that. But judging from the lack of acceptance to declawing on this forum, I feel I could not flourish in this community with such a "biased" viewpoint.

I will simply take my viewpoint and leave you to raising of your cats your way, and raising mine my way.

Thank you and take care.


End of Line---------------
TCS is anti-de-clawing (which you probably noted when you read the rules upon joining). The experience and knowledge brought to this forum support that policy and we don't consider it to be a "biased" opinion - more an educated one and it saddens us when we fail to educate just one more person on the inhumane procedure of de-clawing. Hopefully one day North America will catch up with the rest of the world and make de-clawing illegal - until then we'll try to help one cat at a time. Fortunately a few of the states have caught up with the rest of the world and we hope it's just a matter of time for the rest of the States and Canada to get on board.

I'm truly sorry you do not agree with our TCS policy and we all feel bad for your sweet kitty. I sincerely hope you have no behavioural issues after you have this unnecessary and deforming procedure done on your cat and that your cat will have a long and hopefully pain-free life.

I'm going to close this thread now, we've done all we can.
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