heartbroken, discouraged, tired and need advice

[catsoul]

Hi, I'm new here, and could sorely use some solid advice about 2 ferals I've been feeding for some time. I'm so sad for them because it is SO cold, below zero at times. I don't know how they have survived the winter so far.

Anyway, bought a heated cat house and will set up this week. I also made a shelter using straw to keep them warm in the meantime.

Anyway, the major story is this: The black feral has always let me touch him since last spring and would come to me without issue. A few weeks ago it was below zero and snowing so hard, he let me pick him up and I brought him inside with no problem. He was neutered and has a clean bill of health. He loved being petted on the belly and everywhere, and he and my male cat like each other.

I had no problems keeping him in, he would only cry and yowl at night because he wanted to get out. Long story short, I caved when I saw him and the girl feral looking at each other through the patio window.  The black one inside cried and tried to touch her through the glass. The other feral is very afraid of me but when she saw him she did not care that I was so close. I caved and let him out. I am so sorry now

He came to be fed and would still run up to me; but several days ago I tried to get him and he ran away. Since then he comes to eat and he won't let me near him. I believe he is a stray and not feral but my heart is broken because I think I made him feral   I want him back to keep, he is so mellow, calm and sweet inside, but I will probably have to trap him to get him

Is there any hope, or have I screwed this up for good? I'm having a hard time sleeping since this happened last week when I caved, and feel like I'll never get another chance. What do you think? He has always trusted me until I tried to pick him up the second time, and I feel I've ruined everything Any advice would be great, I really love this little guy.

 

[tulosai]

First, you should just let go of the thought that you 'made' him feral.  Stray adult cats can't be made feral by essentially one incident with one person (though they may come to act/be feral over a lengthy period without a home), any more than a feral cat could be made a tame house cat by one incident one time with one human.

Second, in general you need to give yourself a break, honestly.  It is clear you have a really big heart and are doing your best for both these cats.

For right now I think the best thing you can do is what you're already doing- continue to feed them both and let the male cat move at his own pace getting comfortable again.  An alternate idea if you're determined to trap him is to set up a trap, but I suppose in that case you run the very real risk of trapping the other one instead.

I'm sure others with more experience with ferals will chime in soon Vibes to you!!! You are doing a great thing.

 

[Norachan]

Catsoul, please don't be so hard on yourself. You haven't done anything wrong.

My cats run away from me when I try to pick them up if they're not ready to come indoors. Picking him up when he didn't want to be picked up isn't going to do any lasting damage to your relationship with him.  He's been neutered, he's healthy and he's still coming to you to be fed, so really you don't need to worry about him. I think you should just take things slowly, let him feel confident with you again on his own terms.  

Is the shelter and feeding station close to your house? I got my feral cats used to coming indoors by feeding them behind my house and leaving a window open. I gradually moved the food closer and closer to the window then left some food just inside, so they realised that they would have to come inside to be fed. I know it's too cold to leave a window open now, but if you start moving the feeding station and shelter closer to your house you might be able to persuade him to come back inside without being trapped.

Spend some time out there just chatting to him and letting him get used to your presence again. He'll soon forgive you and start coming to be petted.

How about the girl cat? Has she been TNR'd? This time of year is breeding season so it would be a good idea to get her fixed if you can.

 

[kittychick]

You definitely didn't "make him feral" ....that comes from no human contact for an extended period of time (or no human contact ever). It sounds like he's definitely instead a stray. Before you took him in did he possibly hang in a group that contained the little black female? It's possible he was very attached to her before you brought him in, and seeing her stirred something in him to make him want to be with her/care for her/etc. I firmly believe cats can develop very strong bonds -perhaps he has one with her?!? Of course, him deciding to push to see her in this weather wasn't perhaps the best timing weather-wise But he is also still attached to you -or at the very least knows you're a giver of good things like food. So the plus is he's still returning and you can keep tabs on him. You said you're worried about catching her, not him. If you would catch her first, she would surely benefit from a vet visit & spaying....if she's socializable, could you (or someone you know) work with her? Perhaps you could end up giving a home to both! If she's a true feral that, understandably, may not be in the cards, but at least she'd then be fixed & not going through the trauma of repeated pregnancies (Spring will be here faster than we think!). If he's still coming around for food, and you DO get hr first, even if she ends up being a TNR hopefully you could trap him while she's being spayed/recuperating. Then you can give him a shot at being your full-time indoor guy again.

I know it's tough not to want to let them out -our little feral who's turned into quite the house kitty was making noises to go outside -I said no, but my husband said "oh she knows she's got it good ....she won't go far." Two seconds out the door and she was off like a shot! Had we both not been there to cut her off and scoop her up, who knows if she would have just kept going!

So don't beat yourself up -you didn't make him miserable or turn him feral. Who knows what really made him want to go out....her....deeply ingrained instinct...curiousity. And it's not like now he "hates you for it" since he's still coming around by choice. Remember - you radically changed his world (in a good way definitely) by bringing him in, but he may still have been getting used to it a bit. So don't give up on getting him back in ---you just may have to be slower ---or more crafty ---this time!

Good luck & keep us posted!

 

[StefanZ]

I saw him and the girl feral looking at each other through the patio window.  The black one inside cried and tried to touch her through the glass. The other feral is very afraid of me but when she saw him she did not care that I was so close. I caved and let him out. I am so sorry now
He came to be fed and would still run up to me; but several days ago I tried to get him and he ran away. Since then he comes to eat and he won't let me near him. I believe he is a stray and not feral but my heart is broken because I think I made him feral   I want him back to keep, he is so mellow, calm and sweet inside, but I will probably have to trap him to get him

Is there any hope, or have I screwed this up for good? I'm having a hard time sleeping since this happened last week when I caved, and feel like I'll never get another chance. What do you think? He has always trusted me until I tried to pick him up the second time, and I feel I've ruined everything Any advice would be great, I really love this little guy.

I, alike  KittyChick, I think this female, this dear friend of his, is the key here.  So he didnt fled from you.  He fled to her.  Connecting your place and being inside, with being isolated from her.

So, what I want to believe, the key here is if you manage to be friend with her.  He will come after.  

Is she spayed?  If not, spaying her is of course a priority, and in this case you can perhaps take two flies at once: trap her, and spay, and when her recovery is done (its usually shorter with tough ferales than with a typical family girl!) - you keep her in, AND take him in during the time..   And he will be your and hers ambassadeur to be socialized.  Thus shortening in much her fostering tome.

Love overcomes everything,.

So are my though going.  I hope you can make use of them in some way.

I do love happy endings!

Good luck!

 

[catsoul]

Thanks for all the replies and support. It really means a lot.

Yes, the girl kitty and him have frolicked in my yard during the summer. That's one of the reasons I liked him so much, it was obvious he was stuck on her and followed her everywhere and gently engaged her. Definitely a bond there. Ironically, I see her all the time now and she's alone. I wonder if his interest has waned with her because the neutering "kicked in"? It's been a few weeks now since neutering. Norachan, yes, I feed them both just outside my patio door on the stoop. And yes, he came into the house on his own to explore and to eat in the summer without any prompting from me to eat my cat's food after he finished what I would put outside. My cat actually 'invited' him in; he was out and he kept looking back and encouraging the black feral to follow him ;0 The feral would eat in the kitchen after coming in the sliding door, which I leave slightly open often in the summer.

So, I guess I will try to do that next; since I feed both 'ferals' on the steps just outside the sliding glass door, I'll move the food in and be ready to shut the door behind him.  IF he'll come in. If that doesn't work, I will trap   I have no problem trapping the girl either, as Stefan said, as I would keep her also if she'll let me after spaying.

I finished my shelter last night (quite a ways from the house in my yard in the trees) and the black feral guy went in! As soon as I got closer to check if he went in, he ran away.  I don't care so much, but only hope I didn't discourage him to use it in the future. I looked in this morning and I can tell he was laying in there because the straw was moved and there was a circle of pushed-away straw where he was laying...

I know I have to lay back a bit and chill, but it is hard because it's so cold out. It's going to snow again today. I know I have to stop trying to engage him, it's not helping. Soooo hard.

Kittychick, I was interested in the story you told about your feral. How long has he been in that he still wanted to go out? Does he cry to go out on a regular basis? Good you said no, and great you caught him! But I understand what your husband is feeling, that he 'knows he has it good', and would be back if he went out. I counted on that with mine. There was that part of me that thought he would be back and would just walk back in....I don't think I gave it enough time to solidify. 

Is it normal for a cat to want to go out and cry for a long time (I don't think I could deal with that, would be sad to see it) after coming in from a life from outdoors, and if so, how long? Are they running away because they really PREFER to be outside? If so, I would think twice about what I'm trying to do...

Thanks, everyone, for taking the burden of guilt off me; thinking that I made him feral really hurt me. I'm so glad this forum is available with such caring people as yourselves; I'm doing this alone, so it really comforts me to know that I'm not odd for wanting to help ferals  

 

[2 dozen]

When he comes back in, maybe it will help you to realize you are the boss and smarter than him.. Being in your home will be best for him, too many dangers outside. It's like having children, they want to do things we know are not good for them so we have rules; same with our furry children.

Just be firm next time, but don't feel bad for what happened; you had the best of intentions and who knows where he'd be now if it wasn't for you and your loving care.

Good luck.

Karen

 

[hexiesfriend]

I brought a feral into my home. I was never able to pick him up to be neutered but if you can believe he lived with me for 6 years with no big issues. He would cry to go out and I would ignore him but it was hard. He had been beat up several times by a new Tom in the neighborhood and I could tell he had broken a rib in the past. It was clearly time for him to retire his tomcat status. He did escape quite a few times but you know he never went far and he would return after 2 or 3 days with the promise of catnip and a good meal waiting for him inside the threshold of the front door. He is no longer with me but I know he enjoyed the good life. I was never able to pick him up and hold him but he always came when I called him, head butted and would always come to sit at my feet. Also he hated for me to be on the phone just like a child and always protested. I knew he had a bond with me even though he still had several feral qualities. This is my Tom below all battle scared but still one of the sweetest cats I have ever known. Your kitty will be back in your life soon no worries. I've been there wondering and mine always came back.

image.jpg

• hexiesfriend
• Jan 11, 2015

 

[Norachan]

I think cats do enjoy being outside, even if the weather is bad. All of my cats are ex-feral or stray and my attempts to make them into indoor-only cats failed miserably. Japanese houses aren't that sturdy and wood and paper sliding doors are no match for a determined cat. The only way I was able to keep them safe was to make a big outdoor enclosure for them with a cat door so they could go in and out whenever they wanted to. Even though it's well below freezing at night they all go out for a stroll several times a night.

It's great that your cat is using the shelter you made for them. Once he's formed a bond with the female cat they'll stay close friends even after they've both been TNR'd. Coaxing them in through the patio doors sounds like a good idea. They might adjust to life indoors better if you have them both in at the same time.

It took me three years to persuade my avatar cat to come and live with us. Now that he's got used to his home comforts he's really happy where he is.

ginkun2.jpg

• Norachan
• Jan 11, 2015

When I first met him.

Gin6.jpg

• Norachan
• Jan 11, 2015

Today.

 

[catsoul]

Great kitty pics and stories, I'll try to keep the faith that all will be OK. Black kitty did not come by today, so I'm not very optimistic and very sad. I'll see if I see him around in coming days, I hope your experiences with your guys coming back end up being true for me too.

I've had three days off and feel more tired than before my days off, and much sadder. Thanks again for listening, and hopefully I'll have good news to report soon.

 

[catwoman707]

@Norachan  has an incredible, fabulous enclosure!! Talk about heaven on cat earth......Just had to say that!!

First off you will not be trapping him anytime in the next few years if he was trapped when he was neutered.

He's trap-smart now.

You never mentioned how long he was inside before allowing him out. This is a big question for me.

If this were me? (and I have learned how to think like a cat so I can outsmart their butts

What I would do is open the door a bit and leave a very small trail of tuna bits so he will follow it inside to continue eating it.

You must be far away from the door.

Place the tuna dish a good enough distance from the door too.

I would rig a strong string to the door so that when pulled at a distance, the door will pull shut.

Bingo.

(I am called the master trapper!! haha!)

There are sooo many ways of getting a cat to go where you want him to, or for containment, vet visits, etc.

Once inside you will soon find he is not afraid of you or dislikes you, but he had another attraction outside

I would trap her asap and get her spayed! Standard trap or the same door string way, regardless she needs spaying. You can then see how things go with her inside too.

And no, he is not really feral and must have been owned at some point to be the way he has been with you.

He'll be back! Sooner than later too, he knows where the food is. You can count on that.

 

[catsoul]

Thanks Catwoman Master trapper, eh? ;0 That was an awesome tip about the tuna, I will use it when it's not snowing as it is right now. Appreciate you being up front about the trapping time, but he wasn't trapped. He let me pick him up out in a snowstorm; he was in my yard and I picked him up brought him in. No struggle at all from him, even when I fell up the steps on the way in He's always let me touch him from day 1 last spring but I never tried to pick him up. I absolutely had to, though, this time, and did not give it a second thought with it being 2 degrees out and snowing hard.

He was in for a week and a half before I caved and let him go out. All was fine when he returned to eat as usual, he came running when I called to feed him and let me touch him. So far, so good. But when I tried to grab him when I was able to touch him he ran, overturning a bowl of water and he took off. The next nite he was back, but was a little more skittish. I was able to be very close to him, but I bent down to try to touch him and he took off. Then he went to the back of the yard and I went to see where he was, and he took off in a panic over the fence. That was last nite, haven't seen him since. I don't know how forboding that is for future contact or attempts to get him inside, but I think at least the trap option is open since I never used it.

Funny thing, I was practicing tonight with shutting the sliding glass door as quick as I could, and WHAM! I slammed it and got my finger caught and I heard a 'crunch!!! Wow that hurt, and still does. my fingernail is black and blue underneath, hope my nail doesn't fall off!!! 

With everything I've mentioned with me trying to "get him" and him running from me now, how soon should I attempt to trap, if the 'trail of tuna' is unsuccessful? The trap seems a lot less dangerous to my fingers, to say the least. lol     :0

 

[catwoman707]

Most definitely! Since he is not trap smart that would be the simplest and safest for you way Black and blue, you can bet it will grow out and fall off eventually when the black and blue grows close to the top.

Ouch!!

As soon as you are seeing him come around again you can set the trap.

Be sure there are no prior trapped cat smell on it, or it will need to be sprayed with a household cleaner and hosed/rinsed well to remove the scents of fear and adrenaline left behind.

( a common but innocent mistake made)

I always use tuna in water not oil. Not salmon, mackerel, chicken of the sea tuna in water. It's the cheap one with no big chunks. In water seems to allow the smell to travel better

If he and his gf are not always together at feeding time, it's best. You don't want her to witness him being trapped or she will be much harder to get trapped if it can be avoided.

He's only keeping his distance because he knows you will close him inside again.

Did he cry to go outside much?

 

[2 dozen]

catwoman 707, Thanks so much for the reminder to clean the traps after each use. I haven't been doing that, never thought about the scents left behind. I have been trapping in my community since June 2011 and have trapped 160 cats thus far!!! I have been so very fortunate that the manager and board of directors have been supportive of my efforts, and this year they voted $3000  in the budget for the program. I am now awaiting word for permission to set up some shelters.

catsoul, don't be discouraged. All but a few of my cats were feral kittens. On a few occaisions raccoons have ripped my screens in the summer if I forget to close the windows at night to get at the catfood in the house as I try to bring in the food I put out on my deck for my ferals at dusk and my kitties got out. Most of them came back in the opened door but 2 were out for almost a month!! It took that long to retrap them, so realize this will not be as easy as the first "capture" and may take some time but you will eventually succeed!!

Leaving food inside the open door is a very good idea, hope that works without the need for a trap. See if you can borrow a trap from any local shelters. Mine charges a large deposit in case they don't get it back which is returned but the charge for rental is only$5. Good luck.

Karen

 

[catsoul]

Thanks for the tips and encouragement. I bought a new trap so no worries there but I never thought if then smelling fear and adrenaline. It makes me think that the black kitty can feel and smell my impatience and severe stress to get him inside again.I truly dind it hars to stop looking outside for him every minute and I am so stressed I feel almost sick. If it was nice out id be able to relax more.
Catwoman, he only cried at nie sonetimes wanting out but otherwise seemed very content to play and have his belly rubbed all the rest of the time.
2 dozen that is incredible you trapoed so many as well as having your association behibd you along with funding!! Many master trappers here, im in the right place!!
Catwoman you may have something there with the tuna no oil. I put out oily sardines for dinner and they ate their dry food instead!

 

[catsoul]

Wow, just reread my post from a few hours ago, sorry for the typos! I used my smartphone on the commute home on the train and wasn't very successful :-) 

I tried to find Norachan's enclosure per Catwoman's post, but I don't see it...is the pic not there anymore?

 

[mani]

 
Wow, just reread my post from a few hours ago, sorry for the typos! I used my smartphone on the commute home on the train and wasn't very successful :-) 

I tried to find Norachan's enclosure per Catwoman's post, but I don't see it...is the pic not there anymore?

I don't think she actually posted here, but here's a great thread all about it.. the second page has pictures of the enclosure, but it's all a really good read. 

She's done an amazing job.

 

[Norachan]

Thanks for the compliment @catwoman707  and thanks for posting the link @Mani

Yes, please take a look at the enclosure and let me know what you think @catsoul. I have 20 cats altogether. Forest, the chinchilla and Toby, the ginger and white kitten, were both dumped by their previous owners but the rest of them are all former feral cats. It's taken a while with some of the older ones, but they're all tame enough to be petted now.    

Good luck with the trapping. If all else fails I've had a lot of success using hot KFC as bait. Very few cats can resist the smell of fried chicken.

                                 

 

[catsoul]

Just sharing a bit of good news...first off, my makeshift shelter is being used by at least the female....I found out today when I went to check it out and I unfortunately woke her up, but she didn't take off very far.

The other thing is that black kitty came by to eat finally...he actually allowed me very close, within touching distance, while he ate a little bit. As he left, I called him back, and he stopped and looked at me. He decided to come back to eat some more as I crouched near him, and I was very good and didn't try to touch him or catch him. Interestingly, he looked past me in the doorway into the house...I wonder if he is contemplating a little bit that it was pretty nice while he had been inside. Anyway, hopefully, we're getting back on the right foot again, and he will come inside and eat and let me touch him and pick him up again in time. So relieved that some progress is likely being made!

 

[betsygee]

So glad to hear this.  Sending  

that the progress continues!