Where Have All My Kitties Gone??

[rad65]

I just wanted to point out I am 23 and male, yet both my cats are neutered and not only because the shelter did that. Even if I found a cat on the street, neuter/spay is the first thing that would be done.

If you love cats so much, you must know that 3 - 4 million are euthanized every year in the United States alone because of irresponsible owners who let their cats breed. Apparently people think terms like half-neuter and low estrous have any value, just like people used to think alchemy had meaning. Are you taking your cats to an alchemist? *POOF* this cat is now low estrous. *POOF* half-neutered. You might as well be speaking swahili to me using those terms.

How about instead of giving two $%!&'s about what these "young men" prefer, you consider what is best for the cats, and not just your cats but the cats that will be euthanized because you let a half-neutered male go to an irresponsible owner who let it breed. Obviously someone who wants a cat but is unwilling to have it neutered DOES NOT DESERVE TO HAVE A PET AT ALL. You should screen the people you adopt your animals to. Do you have any qualifications for a person to adopt an animal from you, or do you run a cat vending machine? You say half-neuter produces less kittens? Well, for every one kitten that is born to your half-neutered cat and goes to a home, there is one cat at a shelter that will be euthanized.

Complications may arise from spaying, but the percentages are extremely low, and not being spayed comes with its own health risks as well. I'm thinking you know enough spay horror stories because it sounds like you've had dozens upon dozens of cats. You probably have horror stories about every weird disease just because the odds say at least one of your plethora of cat has it.

I'm a little confused why your females would ever be tested for low estrous-ity anyway. Spaying/neutering should be the first thing done, not testing for virility (why do you care?). Honestly, I don't know why ayone who isn't a breeder would even know what the term low estrous means (and from what can tell from the breeders on this site, they never heard of it before you mentioned it).

 

[Asteria]

Everyone else made great posts about neutering and general care and I won't bother to repeat them in my less-than-articulate words, but I will say, some of your cats do look sickly and too thin.

My Polly is a little whip of a thing. She's leggy, lean, and probably less than 5 pounds. Yet nobody has ever told me she looks too skinny, because she also bright healthy eyes, a smooth, silky, shiny coat, and she's thin, but not a thin that looks "sick thin."
I am seeing the opposite in your cats. They don't look well to me.

 

[alicatjoy]

I commented in your last thread. And, to save my own sanity, I'm just going to bring that thread over here as my opinion has not changed. And, in fact, your current posts only solidify my feelings about your situation.

Here is my last post to you verbatim. Please read it. Open your eyes, open your ears, and stop being so stubborn and indignant. Your cats need help. And, if I had the ability, I'd call the authorities on you. But, I don't have the information I need. But, I hope someone out there does. These cats need help. And, even though I am angry with you for how you are behaving, both on this forum and on a day-to-day basis with your cats, I sincerely hope you get help as well.

My original post:

I saw this thread earlier today, but I purposely chose not to respond. I've read your other threads and, again, opted not to respond. Why? Well, there are a couple of different reasons.

#1 - I am not sure if you're being honest and straight-forward or if you're taking us all for a ride. Part of me wonders whether you're enjoying the attention you are receiving. After all, you're posting threads and information that is ludicrous by most any standard. And, you're choosing the grandstand this nonsense on a forum populated by dedicated animal lovers and advocates. If this is the case, I am disgusted. But, I'll post more on that in just a bit.

#2 - I haven't felt as though I could post because I haven't felt as though I had anything nice to say. And, I was raised to hold my tongue unless I had something positive to speak of. Of what I've read, I have NOTHING positive to say. And, that's sad. I try to see the good in people and, in situations where there is ignorance or naivety , I try to offer suggestions or snippets of my own personal experiences. But, I've read comment after comment of individuals posting advice, suggestions, or experience -- nothing anyone says seems to make a difference. In short, I see these threads as a waste of time and energy.

Now, for the main reason for my posting. I feel very, VERY strongly that the cats in your care need to be removed. I don't know whether you're a hoarder, a backyard breeder, plainly ignorant, or suffering from an emotional or mental illness. But, the care of your cats has been called into question. Not only by members here, but by the fact that you've posted such things on a public forum. The number of cats you have coupled with your attitude and the information you've shared has made me concerned greatly for their welfare. I work at a veterinary clinic and there is no such thing as half-neutered. If it is determined that a male has both testicles, but is cryptorchid, neutering is still done. In these cases, an abdominal incision is made. Half-neutering a pet is nonsense. And, no vet would consider such a practice. The illnesses your cats have suffered from are also very concerning. I do not believe testing is being done on these cats. Nor do I think they are getting any preventative care such as vaccinations, de-worming, or the like. To me, you sound like a hoarder. And, if that's not the case, your intent to breed is all the more disturbing. The pictures I've seen reveal cats with unkempt appearances and who are very thin. Your own posts have stated that you have cats with fur loss and other ailments. These cats should be seized and taken into custody by an animal welfare group or shelter. I can give you the benefit of the doubt, but I don't believe that you are in your right mind when it comes to the cats under your (questionable) care.

Everything I have read has made me want to do something, ANYTHING, to help these cats. The situation, as is, is disgusting. And, your behavior here can certainly be qualified as odd. It's like you see this as a game and we're all pawns for your entertainment. Well, not so. If you're serious about what you've shared and truly care for these cats, you will get honest -- not only with us, but with yourself. I find it hard to believe what you've written and, thus, I feel as though you're taking advantage of us all. It's inappropriate at best. My only hope is that this is a catalyst toward getting these cats out of a potentially dangerous environment and into a safe place where their needs can be met.

I'm not normally so blunt. But, nothing else, in my opinion, will get through to you. Please seek help...for both yourself...and for your cats. Perhaps I am "boxing your ears," but I'd rather have one less friend than see cats or other animals in danger.

I, personally, find your actions reprehensible. These cats deserve far better than what they're being given. Do I believe you have good intentions? Possibly. Do I believe you are way, WAY over your head? Absolutely. Why the edited pictures? I've seen your Photobucket album and saw a glimpse of the clutter and filth around them. Is that why these photos have places blocked out? I'm concerned about your cats...I want to help...but, alas, I can't. These cats need to be taken out of your care. And, as for you, I hope you pull your head out of the sand, take responsibility, stop acting like a fool (a 34 year old cat? half-neutering? playing us all?), and do something proactive. Because, if your passion is rescuing cats, you need to take a look at what you're doing and realize that this is NOT the way to do it.

Again, I'm sorry for being so harsh. But, someone needs to be. Shame on those who sit by and say nothing. And, if what you've shared is even half true, shame on the vets who see your cats. And, if this is a lie, well, shame on you. I wish I could be kinder, but your name is all over the internet spouting nonsense about these cats. Please find help for you and for these precious cats. I suppose that's all that's left for me to say...

 

[jazzmin_flower]

Can't you all just enjoy the cats? How many times are you all going to repeat about spaying and neutering? I stated several times now that I totally believe in removing my male cats kitten-makers. It has been done to most of them and some of those cats don't live with me anymore. My veterinarian says to me everytime I bring him a male kitten to neuter them at nine months of age. I have been seeing him since 1977 so I should be able to trust his recommendation -- it is his ruling that they be neutered at nine months of age. I even tried to get them to neuter them at 5 months, but even his head veterinary assistant stated again: "Nine months". She's the smartest woman in the clinic so she better know what she's talking about. She runs the front office and does a lot of hands on assisting with the animals and has been working with my veterinarian and beyond, now that he is semi-retired. She is there to this day, running everything smoothely. The new veterinarian hasn't told me which month of life to neuter them in which I think is up to him, isn't it? Again, the head veterinary assistant, who is a woman, told me "nine months" is the proper age.

My cats, unfortunately, are able to reproduce at eight months -- I found that it was eight months of age every time they reproduced. And NO, the intact males are not allowed to interact with the females at all without my supervision, to which the females are removed from their area within five minutes. It is astonishing how quickly those cats can make kittens -- I timed one set that made three kittens in eight minutes. They do, unfortunately, slip out past me when I am carrying loads of laundry to do.

The eight minute kittens were wanted, by the way, by a boy about 12 years old that is a cousin of mine that works volunteer with more veterinarians, including my original chinese veterinarian and his brothers. He loves those kittens (now grown) very much, along with the father cat that made them. The males are completely neutered and the female had her ovaries out under the care of four veterinarians.

The father cat is half-neutered and kept from interacting with the females, altho the risk is greatly reduced. I explained to my cousin that he made those kittens in eight minutes at eight months of age, so that he understands the male cat makes them too easily. The four of them are all loved very much and the male father cat is in training to do cat tricks and antics to entertain for Disney. Marzipan will be entertaining kids for Disneyland/UniversalStudios/Knott'sBerryFarm here in southern California.

There a lot of factors that go into why I have so many cats, but I get the impression that some of the women here have made up their minds to be contradictory no matter what is the fact or isn't. I also believe it is every woman's right to see both sides of the story and oppose only for the sake of argument, opposing any statement they hear. Can't a person consider both the pros and cons of any given situation? Women turn things back and forth, flip-flopping on every issue out here. Yes, I can actually see what is wrong with allowing cats to reproduce and what is right with it at all on the same day without anyone explaining the smart-woman rules and beliefs to me again and again.

I can't believe that a site that is supposed to be dedicated to the love of cats is against the basic fact that a cat starts out as a kitten and was born somewhere to some female cat. The constant opposition here to members trying to enjoy and love their kittens is shocking. Can't a person love their cat and sometimes wish it would get lost for having fried the television that afternoon??

As for rules, I've heard them - read them - seen them - lived them - all my life here in California. Where I live, the police and firemen have a list of city rules wherein it has been written for a very long many decades that any household in the town where I live can house up to 99 cats! The list of animals have set numbers of how many of a variety of animals can live in each house, including 1 giraffe (I hope they mean the Toys R Us Giraffe). The problems of cats and dogs are everywhere, not only in my home.

Defending myself is irrelevant, altho I have to say that I am a totally honest person and I always speak the facts about everything. I have to say that several women here have insulted my integrity without really knowing me, probably because they think it is their woman right to oppose every statement they read that ruffles their feathers.

I have only two skinny female cats at present -- one is spayed and the other is low-estrous. The white one is wild and The black one that was spayed is too reclusive and it might be from lack of hormones. I said some of my cats have chronic health problems, mainly recurrent gingivitis and only four of them. Treatments fail to cure it permanently and the gingivitis comes back, flaring up now and then. Other problem is over-hot skin and feline alopecia. None of that points to FeLV. I actually only have four with that condition and the fur does grow back in eventually and they cool off again. Unfortunately, it recurs.

I do not keep any of the rescued kitties and dogs we find out here since Tabbitha and she was actually adopted from a neighbor who kept letting her pair of siamese/ragdoll cats, Chocodile and Rosebud, reproduce constantly and I counted -- she had the 99 kittens! I am amazed I only took one and I wish I had not had to. As a matter of fact, Tabbitha presented with an interesting tail of introduction which I might share here if I can ever stop reading about spay and neuters as the main topic.

Back to the rescue animals: The animals that we find were all in "good homes" and removed from their apartments when the "good owners" were at work, then ejected and abandoned in the towns near where I live by people who claim they are paid to do this. The rent-collectors were suspected for possibly attempting to force the eviction of tenants who were behind in their rent, but the majority of them were found not guilty of this charge. The catnappers are being arrested but there seem to be a never ending trail of them. This happens so constantly that the owners of these cats and dogs should have caught on by now that the town they live in is a hot spot where the cats and dogs are kidnapped from their good homes -- it happens over and over again in that area. Finding a cat a good home may seem a minor expense for the original owner, but keeping them in the good home is next to impossible.

I feel I am doing amazing work for all the animals to be alive when the firemen and policemen and their male volunteers pick the kitties and doggies up. They handle all their medical and work with my veterinarians and their EMTs and many more veterinarians all over the area, altho they also have to use their own moneys from their personal checking accounts and haven't received raises since 1989. They do get most of the males neutered and the females get ovectomies if they can get the $ collected. The cats and dogs the police and firemen keep in multitudes in their apartments are kept similarly to mine, altho there are more people to care for them The males are are kept apart from the females so that they cannot reproduce easily in the meantime.

Yes, I had a problem with too many intact males, and I am happy that half of them have moved to new homes where they are loved and wanted. I strongly encourage the new owners to keep the males from interacting with the females without supervision until they are completely neutered or in the event new kittens are wanted. Half-neutered males make far less kittens!

The cats need rescuing and a place to live, but there are no more funds available out here to start new rescue/placement services. The women that run the pet-placement services that were already established are the only groups that get the funds in the name of their service. Even they are using their personal food/rent/expense moneys to care for the numerous animals. The cats now stay with them, which I know is a better living environment, and they showcase them at Petcos and Petsmarts in my area, but they are also-overcrowded. As a cat-rescuer, my group found many many of their carefully placed cats out here ejected and abandoned. Yes, their cats were very well-groomed and in purrfect health, but even they had many catnapped and through our efforts, the ejected cats were returned to their care. Were they finding good homes for them? Yes, but the fact is that those cats are out here being rescued again and again. The police spoke to them about the situation and are returning cats every month.

The police determined that to place the cats again only leads to the continued catnapping cycle. We find seven live cats a day on average, except for very rainy days.

Are there too many cats raining down in California? YES.


When I look over the forum pages I can see dozens of ill animals with worse conditions than any of mine ever had. My cats, when they are that ill, I take them for initial veterinary urgent care, and take them each three times for more injections and I tend their needs for a few days to several months before I determine that I can't heal them at home. Then I turn them over to my veterinarian, altho it breaks my heart, for their continued care. If he takes them, he can keep them on IVs and give them all the injections and costly medications they need. All my cats, once they were healed, were taken by new owners that I totally approve of. As with any home some do better than others, but all my cats that I gave to them through my veterinarians are all alive and enjoying quality of life. I hear about the cats now and then. My 34 year old cat was living up north for several years and has now come back to the area. Hilo is being checked up again by his original veterinarian to determine if he needs anymore healing or lifelong medications. That Hilo always takes dexamethasone for his arthritis, on and off.

Speaking of dexamethasone, one of my veterinarians dispenses it all the time and the other refuses to use it ever, so there is always some form of healthy or unhealthy opposition.

I think that is very responsible of the veterinarians here in California to take the pets from any of us, altho I feel they are too secretive about it and choose to tell us the pet will be put to sleep. And they often put possum ashes and bones in an urn or wooden box instead of the beloved pet, but that is their policy and not up to any pet owner. I have learned that the animals rarely are put to eternal rest in a veterinarian's care.

It is not my intention to be hostile to anyone here, but when someone insults my integrity, I have to react and I feel I am being very reserved about it since I do not enjoy arguing with others.

And if the majority of women here at the Cat Site Forums are going to go on obsessing about spaying and neutering above everything else, I will most likely be taking my cats and leaving as that topic isn't the only topic to discuss about cats.

The situations out here are difficult, yes, for any pet owner. As I said, others that have their animals taken from their apartments illegally are constantly getting another pet to replace the last one. I don't think that's a good idea, this idea of disposable pets or that is time for the pet to "go with the Angels" is a poor excuse for pretending they don't know what is really going on. The medical costs on tests and some medicines rises too frequently, especially for dogs. The food for the pets goes up at every store several times a year. Right now I am grateful for WalMart's ability to keep the prices on their foods down and my cats are being treated to some of the specialized foods. Yes, it is difficult for me to place my cats and some of the people that took mine also have too many.

Are there anymore of you that are going to preach about spaying and neutering? All the cats I have photographed on this thread are neutered altho some 1 month or two too late.

Cats happen -- they reproduce too easily and too many at a time. I personally believe that a female cat should not be able to birth more than two kittens per pregnancy and that they should be allowed to reproduce seldom. It is my intention to have all of my female cats reduced to only being able to carry two kittens at a time. You ask me do I need more kittens? Nobody needs kittens in the first place, but kittens happen.

 

[rosiemac]

Were going around in circles here, so i'm going to lock this thread until we discuss it in the Moderators lounge