Possible kitten colours

[mariedyson123]

Hello everyone I am looking for a bit of advice if possible, I am wondering what colour /pattern combination would come from the following cats - mum is a cream/fawn/lilac tabby British shorthair, dad is a classic marble silver tabby (please see pictures) any help would be greatly appreciated as I tried to look into the genetics but it’s a bit much for my brain! Thanks

 

[lutece]

In order to answer your question, it would be helpful to have more information about the color of the mother cat. You said she is "cream/fawn/lilac"... but cream, fawn, and lilac are three different colors. Cream is the dilute of red (orange / ginger), fawn is the dilute of cinnamon (sorrel), and lilac is the dilute of chocolate. To make it even more complicated, it's also possible to be a cream or tortoiseshell/torbie version of fawn or lilac. So, what color is she?

 

[mariedyson123]

Thanks for your quick response, it’s difficult to tell exactly what colour she is, I’d probably say more lilac/ fawn I have attached a picture above, her last litter of kittens was with a solid grey shorthair and she produced 3 solid lilac kittens and a grey/ cream tortie, she is a bit of a Heinz 57 varieties (although a lovely cat )

 

[lutece]

You said that she is a British Shorthair. Is she registered? What is the color listed on her registration? What colors are the ancestors in her pedigree?

Are you certain that the kittens from her previous litter were lilac? Or could they have been cream?

 

[mariedyson123]

No she is not registered, I’m pretty sure the kittens were lilac, please see picture attached

 

[lutece]

Were the light colored kittens in her litter all males? Or were some of the kittens females and some males?

With the pale colors like lilac, fawn, and cream, it's not easy to determine just from a picture of young kittens. Although they look lilac in the picture, this color is not very common even in British Shorthairs, and both parents would have to carry the gene in order to produce lilac kittens.

What color were your girl's parents? Did you get her from a breeder?

 

[lutece]

Also, what country are you located in? I'd be happy to help you find a genetic testing lab so that you can find out what color she actually is.

 

[mariedyson123]

Her father was a grey shorthair, mother was a cream/grey tortie, the Male she mated with was solid grey, his parents were a solid grey Male and a fawn female

the previous litter were 3 females -shorthair,2 lilac, 1 grey tortie
1 Male - longhair lilac

 

[Kitty Beholder]

Have you considered getting everyone spayed/neutered after this litter?

 

[lutece]

Ok, with the new information and pictures, we can figure out a few more things.

The fawn female and blue male in the picture (parents of father of first litter) look like they are probably registered British Shorthairs? So you know for sure that the mother of that male is fawn (not lilac)?

Fawn, lilac, and cream can be similar looking, but they are genetically different colors. Here's how the genes work. I know that you've already looked up some genetic information, so just bear with me, since I will probably cover something you already know.

• The Dilute gene locus has two known alleles, D (non-dilute) and d (dilute / blue) which is recessive.
• The Brown gene locus has three known alleles, B (black), b (chocolate), and b1 (cinnamon). Chocolate is recessive to full color, while cinnamon is recessive to chocolate. The dilute version of chocolate is lilac. The dilute version of cinnamon is fawn.
• Blue cats have two copies of d (dilute) and at least one copy of B (black).
• Fawn cats must have two copies of d (dilute) and two copies of b1 (cinnamon) = dd b1b1
• Lilac cats must have two copies of d (dilute), and either two copies of b (chocolate), or one copy of b and one copy of b1 (cinnamon)... because cinnamon is recessive to chocolate. So lilac = either dd bb, or dd b b1.

I'll use images from Sarah Hartwell's Messybeast site as illustrations:

The sex-linked red gene (O for the Orange gene locus) also interacts with the above colors to make red / cream or tortoiseshell. With red or cream cats (not tortoiseshells), genetically a cat could be a chocolate-based or a cinnamon-based red or cream (as opposed to a black-based red or cream), but there isn't really a visual difference in the color... it will look red or cream. But for a tortoiseshell, you will see the basic color (black, blue, chocolate, lilac, cinnamon or fawn) mixed with red or cream.


So as far as the father of the first litter is concerned,

• His dad is blue = dd B- (We know dad has one copy of B but don't know if he carries b or b1)
• His mom is fawn = dd b1b1
• The father of the first litter must be dd Bb1. One copy of B, one copy of b1 (cinnamon) since his mother is b1b1.

And as for your female cat,

• Your female cat appears to be lilac-cream in color... that is, a lilac-based dilute tortie = dd bb Oo
• Her mother appears to be blue-cream (dilute tortoiseshell) and she must carry chocolate since she produced lilac = dd Bb Oo
• Her dad appears to be solid blue? (he has heavy ghost markings but doesn't appear to be a blue tabby), and he must carry chocolate = dd Bb o

Technically it would be possible for your girl to carry cinnamon (b1) but probably she doesn't. Cinnamon is more rare, and she produced 3 lilac kittens when bred to a known cinnamon carrier, so it's not likely she has a cinnamon allele.

The kittens from your girl's first litter appear to be

• Blue-cream / dilute tortie female = dd Bb Oo (we know she carries chocolate because of mom).
• Lilac longhaired male, he must also carry cinnamon = dd b b1
• The lilac appearing females could be lilac, or lilac-cream. They must also carry cinnamon = dd b b1

Finally we know for sure that both your female, and the blue male you bred her to, carry longhair. We can tell that from seeing the longhaired kitten.

I will discuss the next breeding you are considering (with the silver male) in another post...

 

[lutece]

Now as for the silver male you are considering breeding her to (or did you already do the breeding?)

He is a black silver. So he is a tabby, and he is full color, not dilute. Tabby and full color are dominant... but we don't know if he carries solid (non-tabby) or dilute (blue) or chocolate or cinnamon. Silver (Inhibitor gene) is also dominant, but we don't know if he is homozygous or heterozygous for silver. What do you know about the silver male's parents?

If the silver male is homozygous for silver and tabby, and he doesn't carry dilute, cinnamon, or chocolate, this is what you can get:

• Males: (black) silver tabby, or red silver tabby
• Females: (black) silver tabby, or silver patched tabby (silver torbie)

However, if he carries recessives, you could get lots of different possible colors. For example, let's say he carries non-silver, solid, and dilute... in that case you could also get some of these colors:

• Males: blue silver tabby, cream silver tabby, brown tabby, red tabby, blue tabby, cream tabby, solid black, solid blue, black smoke, blue smoke...
• Females: blue silver tabby, blue silver patched tabby, brown tabby, brown patched tabby, blue tabby, blue patched tabby, solid black, tortoiseshell, solid blue, blue-cream, black smoke, smoke tortie, blue smoke, blue-cream smoke...

And that's not even considering whether that male might carry cinnamon or chocolate. If he carries cinnamon or chocolate, you could additionally get chocolate or lilac versions of any of the above colors.

You can find out what he actually carries by doing a genetic test. It is not possible to test for silver, but you can test for solid, dilute, chocolate and cinnamon. This would narrow down the possible colors a lot.

 

[lutece]

Finally, it is also a good plan with British Shorthairs, or cats that have a lot of British Shorthair ancestry (such as Scottish Folds), to do some genetic health testing before breeding. And do you know the blood types of the mom and dad?

Have you considered getting everyone spayed/neutered after this litter?

Yes, that's a reasonable thing to think about, too... especially considering the cats aren't registered.

 

[mariedyson123]

Thank you for so much information! Our blue Male has already been neutered, as has the longhair from her last litter we kept, I plan on having our girl spayed after this litter (if we even go ahead).
We live in Dubai but would love to get the tests done to see what colour our female is out of interest

 

[lutece]

Thank you for so much information! Our blue Male has already been neutered, as has the longhair from her last litter we kept, I plan on having our girl spayed after this litter (if we even go ahead).
We live in Dubai but would love to get the tests done to see what colour our female is out of interest

I'm not familiar with veterinary testing labs in Dubai. Here are a couple of suggestions that will work internationally:

• MyCatDNA (link: MyCatDNA - Scientific Cat DNA testing service worldwide) is a DNA test aimed at cat breeders. It tests for a very wide variety of traits and disease genes, and also has a genetic diversity test. I would recommend this test for any breeders wishing to screen their cats for genetic disorders and promote greater genetic diversity within a breed. (For anyone located in the US reading this, the same test is marketed in the US as Optimal Selection Feline Optimal Selection™ Canine and Feline DNA Tests)
• UC Davis Veterinary Genetics Lab (link: Cat DNA Tests | feline DNA testing | UC Davis Veterinary Genetics Laboratory) offers individual tests, so if you just want to test your girl for chocolate and cinnamon to determine her color, you could do that. Samples are taken with ordinary cotton swabs and mailed in regular mail.