Please Help!

[alicevictoria1989]

Please help. We have two cats who are sisters and two years old. They have been indoor cats since they were born.
We have moved to the country so wanted to get them going to the toilet outside. One is responding well to the toilet training outside, the other is not, she is continuing to pee and poop inside including in beds, in the bath, the floors. She is becoming angry and hissing when we tell her off and I am at my absolute wits end.
I completely understand the move is stressful and adjusting to outdoors and new surroundings, but we seems to be going backwards not forwards.
Here is what we did:

For four weeks following the move we continued to use an indoor litter tray, the got used to the cat flap and began to go outside to look more and more.
We then moved the litter tray to the porch, it stayed here for a few days. Then a few days at the front door but outside, then a few days down the path at the edge of the garden. It was going well with only a few accidents inside from one of them, the other seems eager to please. I’ve been taking them to the tray outside quite often I.e. mornings, after work, and a couple of times in the evening. One will usually go and likes a treat and lots of praise after. One has been a couple of times but is very reluctant. We removed the litter tray, but added litter to the dry ditch area where we’d been taking them too, treating this like a big litter tray.
She began toileting everywhere inside so we put the litter tray back outside, she hasn’t used it.
When she toilets inside I take her to it, say ‘no’ and tap her nose, then put her out. She has however for the first time ever started hissing at me when I take her to toilet now.
Maybe telling her off is the wrong thing to do?

I really am at my wits end with it all and don’t know what else to do!

Any help or guidance or anything would be so greatly appreciated.

 

[ArtNJ]

I hope you don't mind if I try and change your mind? I am speaking from experience since one of my cats is voluntarily what you are shooting for -- she greatly prefers to do her business outside. My second cat also generally goes outside, but has no problem going inside if the weather is bad or something. I'll also try and offer some advice to do what your trying to do I promise!

Ok, here is the change your mind pitch: what happens when there is a blizzard and the cat doesn't want to go out for days? What happens when the cat is sick or recovering from surgery? What happens when you are going out of the country and need to board the cat somewhere? If you have a former stray that won't adapt to a litterbox that is obviously one thing; you deal with the above situations as well as you can. Speaking from experience, I have two indoor/outdoor now, one of which does not like to use the box, the situation you are shooting for. And its a definite problem when I go away -- she will use the box when forced, but there are always accidents. Usually the cat can hold it if there is a storm overnight, but if its still bad weather the next day, she really doesn't want to go outside, and it can be unpleasant for all of us to push her. It can be particularly bad in wintertime when its very cold or there is a lot of snow/ice on the ground, since she doesn't like to go out and protests strongly. So I don't think its worth the sanitary/convenience benefits I assume you are shooting for. I do apologize for getting preachy -- I'm trying to change your mind because I think that when you drill down on the benefits/disadvantages, its not good to do.

To get back on topic and try to help with your goal, I've obviously never tried this, I don't think many people do, but based on general cat training and litterbox experience, negative training is likely to lead to indoor accidents. I think the best you can do is reinstall a litterbox inside, and give treats to encourage going outside at regular intervals, converting to positive training only. And petzyme the heck out of the accident spots. You won't get to zero indoor use with this approach, but you should be able to reduce use and perhaps get to where you can scoop once every couple of days. I have three litter boxes but barely scoop at all -- don't generally need too unless there is a storm or something and they can't go out.

 

[alicevictoria1989]

Thank you for your reply.
For storms and things I didn’t think k it would be an issue eventually, our cats in the past and cat owners we know don’t have litter trays, they just go outside. For being out of the country we have people that stay in our house, so they don’t board anywhere else.

We didn’t really think it would be too hard, they’re loving the outdoors and we assumed eventually they’d get used to and want to go outside.

So many people say to scold them when they go inside, and you have to be cruel to be kind and they’ll learn eventually. But then others say it’s the worst you can do as it upsets them more.

We’ve put a litter tray back outside in a sheltered area hoping that she’ll use this if she needs. One cat has gotten on fine and is toileting outside, her sister is the one who is completely in protest!

 

[ArtNJ]

Huh, well I guess I learned something then. I knew many cats prefer to go outside. Like I said mine do! However, I didn't realize that some people successfully force the issue with reluctant cats. Sounds like some people in your area do that. I'll butt out and see if anyone has any training advice for ya. Good luck!

P.S. I love cats, but unlike dogs I just don't believe that they are wired right to link up negative training to going in the house. Could be wrong, some people do say they do it, but I think that negative training only works (sometimes) for very simple stuff like the cat is not allowed on the kitchen counter.

 

[maggiedemi]

I would put one litterbox inside at all times.