Please help - Liver Disease

[Hayhay228]

Hi yall. I really need advice. My kitty Manny is very sick. He is a Maine coon mix about 12 years old... way too young for this. Last weekend, my husband and I were clipping his nails (which we've had to do pretty much his whole life, if not his nails will grow back into his paws). He hates getting his nails clipped. After we finished clipping his nails he got a small nose bleed. It scared me to death but we got it to stop, so I thought maybe I bumped his nose or something while clipping his nails. He's never had a nose bleed before. He acted fine, I checked on him all through the night... no more nose bleeds. On to the next day... he was acting like his silly self. Then in the afternoon he got another nose bleed just sitting there hanging out with us. This one was pretty bad, so bad we had to take him to the emergency vet over an hour away (only one open on Sunday). The bleeding was so much worse when we put him in the carrier. It was awful. So obviously the vet was concerned. We ran all his labs, checked his thyroid, did full body and head exrays (lots of money and no real answers). The vet told us she was very concerned. All of his liver enzymes are elevated. His wbc are elevated. Some immflamatory markers are elevated. She mentioned it might be cancer, honestly she was worried about nasal cancer but the exrays cleared that. His thyroid, kidneys, blood pressure and etc were normal. She said that she recommended doing an ultrasound and liver biopsy but she told us that it wasn't a guarantee that we'd find the problem and even if we do they would probably just treat with antibotics and steroids. So we choose to just try the antibotics and steroids. So we took home gave him the medicines and took him back in a week to recheck the labs. No more nose bleeds at all. He's yellow now by the way, so he's jaundice. This time his liver enzymes are about 3 times worse. This vet said the same thing that we could do an ultrasound and a liver biopsy to try an figure this out but that it was a 50/50 on whether they'd be able to figure out and treat what was wrong (and it would be very expensive). Both vets gave us the impression that its not good. I even asked about life expectancy and the vet said maybe 6 months to a year. She told us what to watch for that way we don't let him suffer. My heart is so broken. I feel like it's killing me!! So, we are continuing the antibiotics and steroids for the next week just hoping it makes a difference and otherwise we are just letting him enjoy his life. So that brings me to my question... I am constantly trying to feed him... I feel like its all I do all day everyday. My emotion are totally in line with whether he eats or not. He just doesn't care much for his kibble, he will only eat about half of a Sheba at a time and he will lick at FF (I am opening can after can after can...). Out of desperation I bought a bunch of different temptations treats... he is absolutely crazy about one kind, only one kind. What do I do? Just feed him the junky treat so he eats enough? I believe he is just being stubborn now because he just wants the treats... he was eating his kibble plenty until I gave him the treats. I've had to break him from treats before... (I'm kicking myself for even giving him the treats but.... We were SO desperate to make sure he eats enough calories.) He seems so fine. He's still jumping all way to the top of the cat tree and running around with his buddy lucky. I hate feeding him the treats but if that's what he wants and were losing him should I just let him be happy? Will this hurt him worse? My husband was going to buy the hills prescription food for liver support tonight... we were thinking no more treats and hopefully we can get him to eat that but is it really worth it? - I don't want him to starve himself that will only make this worse. Please help I don't know what to do!!

Please please please don't make me feel bad about not spending thousands more on diagnostics when the vets said its likely that we still can't save him. It's already tearing my heart out. We love Manny so much. We've already spent ALOT of money and if we had the money we would do anything to save him... but we just don't, I will be paying these vet bills for months...

 

[Hayhay228]

I also wanted to mention... the vet did say that she doesn't believe he is in any pain right now. She said she pushed around on his belly and he doesn't seem uncomfortable. So atleast that's good news.

 

[white shadow]

.
Hi Hayhay228 and welcome to the forum !

My first recommendation is that you use a "complete" cat food as the basis of his nutrition, not treats products.

It may be that you'll need to assist-feed him. Watch carefully how to present the liquid food across his tongue, not straight back into his mouth/throat in this video:

​

Hoping that helps !

Keep us posted too.
.

 

[fionasmom]

I have been in this situation with dogs more frequently than cats but the scenario is the same. Something happens that triggers more testing, the liver numbers are not good, possibly other symptoms like jaundice. I have usually done ultrasounds, but I completely understand your reasons for not doing one. In fact, after a number of ultrasounds on various animals I finally realized that in every case it had either not been conclusive or had presented a problem which did not have a good prognosis. I told the vet(s) that I would not do any more ultrasounds for "academic" reasons just so we could talk about the results but then choose not to go forward. In the case of my animals, I did only one liver biopsy. These tests are informative, but as I said, if you are not going to move forward with further treatment they are not of any real value to you. There is no way that you should feel obligated to do testing that is either going to run you into debt or that will not change anything about your pet's condition or what you might do about it. I also agree that if there is no real hope except procedures which are painful or invasive that the quality of the animal's last months is very important.

I am concerned that he need to eat and agree that if you can direct him to a complete cat food it would be best. If you have a store nearby, you could go and buy individual cans of various foods to see what he might like. Cats will eat Gerbers baby food meats usually, but that also will start something if he decides that this is his new food as it is incomplete nutritionally for a cat. At this point, I would advise sticking with cat food. As for Hill's.....you might get lucky and he might love it. I have never had an animal get near it, dog or cat, but the raccoons gave it a big thumbs up.Royal Canin also makes prescription foods and I have been slightly luckier with those, but nothing great. Try to cut back on the treats or use them to lure him into eating some real food. But, no, if you sense he is not doing well regardless, I would not worry about diet at that point and just keep him nourished with something so he is comfortable. Liver disease can affect appetite...there are also appetite stimulants that the vet can give you and those will probably spark up his appetite and make things easier on you. Mine have used both cyproheptadine and mirtazapine successfully. I have no clue what CBD oil does or does not do.

It is good that Manny is still playing and the vet is probably correct that he is not in pain. Take every day as it comes and enjoy it with him. My animals who were dxed with serious liver conditions, as I said, more dogs than cats though, survived for several months but watch for signs of malaise or big changes in behavior which can be insidious.

 

[Furballsmom]

Hello! You've gotten some great advice here! Definitely handfeed him, by the method described above or something else because you don't want to leave the choice of eating up to him. It doesn't work for him, and as you commented it's incredibly stressful in an already challenging situation. Keep talking to your vet about how he's doing and whether appetite stimulants, as fionasmom mentioned, would make his and your life easier.

(apologies for any broken links);

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No Money For Vet Care? How To Find Help And Save Your Cat's Life - TheCatSite

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[Hayhay228]

I just wanted to thank you all for all the wonderful advice.

Fionasmom, I especially found comfort in what you said. Thank you for taking the time to say that... I have struggled deeply with the choice not to do the ultrasound and biopsy... you definitely gave me some peace in my decision. My cat Sammy passed away at 17 after 2 miserable weeks of testing and trying many different things... only for him to suffer more and us being left with a big bill that took months to pay off and still having to make the choice to end his suffering. I really truly believe all the medical stuff ruined his last 2 weeks... it was horrible to see, I still lose sleep over it...

I absolutely believe in saving them if you can within your means... but if you can't for whatever reason... it doesn't mean you didn't love them and give them a good life. Thank you for being so understanding!!

So on to the great news... he has not had a single treat since this morning. It was so tough... and boy was he persistent! He finally gave in and ate some of his kibble. He also ate the most canned food he has ever eaten in one sitting for dinner tonight. We have tried so many different foods. I swear it feels like I've spent a $100 in the last 2 days on different cat foods... I did research and found the highest calorie canned cat foods I could find in 3 oz cans because he will not eat it cold or heated up, he will only eat it fresh... so I got him blue wilderness duck canned food, it's 139 Kcal per 3 oz can. He almost ate the whole thing for dinner. He usually just licks at it... he was inhaling this food, taking big bites. I am so very thankful, atleast I will sleep good tonight. I will never give him another temptation treat again... lol. I just hope he will keep eating good so we can have more good times with him. Please keep him in you thoughts. Here's a picture for yall to see. His nickname is Manners. Or The Man Mans. Lol. He chirps like a bird. My sweet boy!

 

[Furballsmom]

ate some of his kibble. He also ate the most canned food he has ever eaten in one sitting for dinner tonight.

Wow, GO Manners!! What a handsome boy

it was horrible to see, I still lose sleep over it...

These people can be so very helpful

Day By Day Caregiver Support Inc. – Providing compassionate support for the grief that comes before, during and after the loss of a pet

 

[MissClouseau]

There is a problem with the liver, and some infection as white blood cells show, but the cause is unknown, correct? Liver problems are sometimes (or maybe usually) secondary to another problem. I didn't even see the blood test result and I'm no vet, just sharing as an info some physical damage to liver area can also cause jaundice. I have seen cases like this on the vet clinics accounts I follow on Instagram too. I wonder if something happened during nail clipping. I even read about a cat who have injured himself with some poor landing after a jump. If I remember correct there was some fluid in the abdomen region in that case too.

Either way, liver is one of the better organs at getting better when there is a health problem. If I were you I would get a second opinion from a different vet. You can take the test results and just ask for their opinion.

If antibiotics don't help, you can also get ultrasound done but not biopsy just yet as ultrasound isn't invasive. Just to say it doesn't have to be both tests or none.

 

[fionasmom]

That is great news that he likes the duck flavor! A very good sign that his appetite is still working and if he is eating enough I would not ask for the appetite stimulants at this time.

I completely agree that it is possible to try to hard with a failing animal and achieve nothing but discomfort for them. I certainly learned that the hard way.