Old Boy Started Peeing Outside Litterbox

ToodleDoodle

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Goodness, at this point I’m quite at a loss for what to do and hope someone here can help out. It’s a bit of a long story, however, but hopefully someone can be bothered reading through and have some good input.

Our oldest boy, when we got him, never did anything outside of the litterbox. He’s a retired bengal breeder and we quickly noticed he was fairly stress prone, but he handled things well aside from getting the runs once in a while when things were real bad - like when we did some massive work on the house, among other things. But aside from being far more cuddly and a bit jumpy when that was going on, nothing else happened in that sense. The same people we got him from contacted us not long ago and wondered if we’d take in one of their more difficult kittens and we agreed, on the condition that he could be returned if the two didn’t hit it off.

There’s been no real issue with them, to be honest, and the old boy’s first reaction was to lick and cuddle with the little terror and though they get into some squabbles they seem to be very attached and spend more time napping together than anything else. After a while, however, one of our oldest’s teeth fell out and we booked an appointment with the vet. They pulled some teeth, he got so stressed he acted odd for weeks and had to be on medicines quite long as he had some accidents then, which seemed to be related to very specific things such as us taking him off the medicines or when we attempted to switch the litter. After switching back to the normal litter and splurging on some bigger boxes for both of them, things more or less returned to normal. It’s been months since then but after eating a bad ham and having some more accidents as he most likely got some mild food poisoning from that - along with everyone else in the house that ate it, which was great fun - this started happening.

Since we got them from a vet, we often call to ask for advice but it’s not always easy to figure out what it is. We’ve considered privacy issues, but their boxes are placed in our big bathroom where it’s well lit, clean and free from any real noise and disturbance. They love laying in there and sleeping and since we have two bathrooms they aren’t often disturbed in there. Washing machines are in the other bathroom, too, so they don’t have to deal with that. He seems to seek out where we are to urinate, however, going into the livingroom when the TV is on and everyone is in there. Other times it’s at night or early morning, especially if my stepfather gets up first though he doesn’t really do anything with the cats except for give them food if it’s out.

The last vet check showed no issues outside of his teeth and as we weren’t entire satisifed with them, we’re a little hesitant to go there again and they are, unfortunately, the only ones nearby. And considering how stressed he gets from it, we’re also hesitant to take him again because we’ve seen how it wears on him, both physically and mentally and for such a long time, but if it’s very needed we will. Though it doesn’t seem like a health problem. He gets into the litterbox fine, we clean it a number of times each day, there’s been no discoloration of anything in there and he doesn’t appear to be in any pain or have difficulty with anything. He’s not tender anywhere, he smells the same and while he has been shedding a little we think that’s because of the stress still, as he behaves oddly after urinating outside the box for a while and acts funny for a while.

There doesn’t seem to be a pattern to when, but he often goes on either our rugs or the pelts we have laying around or their wool bed. We don’t think there’s any real issues between the cats as the tiny one isn’t dominant in that sense and we play with them both as close to equally as possible. The older one doesn’t enjoy play as much, but we get in a lot of playtime either way with him since he’s often more eager to play when the tiny one is playing. They get fed at the same time, though we differ in who gets their food first to keep that as equal as possible too. They get various proteins so they won’t just get a single type of food over longer periods, but generally they enjoy what they get and none of them are overweight. They both spend a lot of time cuddling up still, so even there they get fairly equal attention and there’s no real warning to this. He’s got plenty of calm spots to sleep and stay and while we’ve tried a few ‘calming’ this or thats, he either hates it or doesn’t care much.

The only pattern I’ve noticed is that it seems to happen whenever either me or my mother are ‘too slow’ in getting to what he wants. Just today I was lighting the fireplace before going to feed them and he sat down to pee and now he avoids me like the plague even if no one really get’s angry with him or punishes him in any way. He seems to know what he’s doing is wrong and it doesn’t appear to be accidents at this time, but while this seems to happen whenever we’re ‘slow’ to so something that also feels odd. We can’t always run off to feed him the moment he looks at us, you know? They always have dry food should the wet food run out and even without a few teeth, he eats it fine still.

We have spoken to the folks we got him from about this, too, and they were fairly certain it is a behavior problem and not health related, but we’re not sure how to deal with it at this point. We’ve had two cats before him, my mother has had a lot more, but we never had any such issues with any of them so we’re a bit lacking on experience and googling around hasn’t brough up too much helpful, to be honest.

If anyone has any advice or ideas, it would be much appreciated. At this point it’s gotten pretty stressful for us, too, and we don’t want to have to consider any drastic solutions like giving him back or putting him down at all, but it feels very hopeless at this point. This post probably turned into a mess, but this entire situation feels like a mess at this point and I’m not sure if there’s anything I missed.

Thank you in advance if you even got this far, I know my rambles can be a pain to read through. :p
 

Columbine

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Hi, and welcome to TCS :hithere::welcomesign:

I'm so sorry you're having these issues with your old boy. Litterbox issues can be so frustrating, especially when there isn't an obvious cause or trigger.

My first instinct is that this might be pain related - sometimes the only indicator of pain is the box avoidance itself. His seeking out soft surfaces to pee on is often an indicator of pain. I'd want to check for urine crystals/stones, infection and blood in the urine. If you speak to your vet, you might be able to take a urine sample in for testing without taking your boy in, so hopefully avoiding the stress component until you know for sure if a vet trip is needed. I'm so sorry that you're not happy with your vet. Is there maybe another vet at the same practice that you could see instead?

The other pain related issue is arthritis. If a cat is arthritic in their back or hips, the action of squatting to pee can really hurt. Just being able to easily enter and exit the box is no guarantee that other aspects of urination are pain free.

Given his age, other possible causes are greater urgency when urinating (meaning that he simply isn't able to make it to the box in time), or that his mind is failing him (ie feline senility) and he's forgetting himself at times. I went through this with my old greyhound, and it can be hard to pick up on in the early stages.

Adding in more boxes scattered throughout the home could help, no matter what the trigger, so that's well worth doing. I know its a pain, but it's far easier to scoop a box than be cleaning up accidents the whole time ;)

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ToodleDoodle

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Thank you for a reply and a welcome! :D

We've considered it, but considering how on and off it is, it also seems a bit unlikely. But if we can take a sample here at home and bring it to the vet, doing that can't hurt just to be sure. There is one other vet clinic that I know of, but ironically enough the vet we went to now worked there before and quit because they were very difficult to work with. After trying to contact them before when our tiny one got an eye infection, I don't think they would be a very good place. However, I can ask around a bit more, there might be some place tucked away I'm not familiar with.

Considering how active he is, we're fairly certain it isn't arthritis, though we considered it. But he's shown no other signs of it and he runs around the house as excitedly as the kitten (their favorite spot to fight is hanging off the side of the cat tree, even, which always gives me a heart attack). Just in case, we'll try and bring it up with the vet we got them from once they're back from vacation. I do think he would have shown some other signs of it if that was the case and at least from what I've been able to see online, there should at least be a decrease in activity and not increase, as he's gotten a lot more playful after we took in the kitten. Our other cats got less active when they got older, but this boy has been getting more and more hyped.

I've been wondering about that, too, but am also a little hesitant there as I would imagine it would be more frequent? And we have caught him more than once going into the bathroom, sniffing around, before leaving to go elsewhere. We considered if it could be the smell, the box being dirty, etc. but the box was near completely clean and he's never had a problem with the tiny one sometimes sharing his box before, at least, nor does he seem to mind that after he goes outside the box. But he's particularly difficult to read at times as he's quite the introvert and trying to figure out what's going on in his head can be difficult. I'll look into it, however, and see if maybe it could be something that's contributing to the problem.

We actually tried more boxes here and there, but then he simply jumped up on the guest bed instead and peed there. With my grandmother in it, so that was a little embarrassing. It's like whenever we put a box in a place he peed before, he avoid that place and finds a new one, if that makes sense. Though he happily uses in the one in the bathroom otherwise, as this happens very irregularly but still enough to be a pest and that at least I feel like I can't trust him quite. Over the last six months it's happened perhaps five times total, not counting when we knew he was actually ill.

I'll take a look at those links, though, and see if maybe something there helps. Thanks a lot, though, having an outside perspective actually feels pretty great lol. I will definitively contact the vet about taking a sample here at home (didn't even know that was possible), so maybe something will come up there.
 

Columbine

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I agree that arthritis doesn't sound too likely, from what you say. My instinct, then, is that its either a urinary tract/bladder issue, or that you're dealing with some level of dementia. I'm in no way an expert, but his getting more hyper could be linked to that too. It might also be worth getting his thyroid checked, just in case there's something going on there. I'm not aware that that would cause litterbox avoidance, but it could explain his being more hyper. It can cause increased thirst and urination too, so I guess that could carry over into having accidents :dunno:Just a thought.

As he's so stressed by the vet, you could always ask about a home visit. It will cost more, but some vets are willing to do this. Other tips are to give him a calmer (such as Composure) before you go, and to try and get the first appointment of the day. This minimises wait times, and means the waiting room is quieter. Spraying the car and carrier with Feliway just before you leave can help too. My girl is really anxious about carriers and vet visits (almost always wetting herself on the 5 min journey there), and these things have helped her enormously :)
 
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ToodleDoodle

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I'll definitively talk to the vet about taking a urinary sample and possibly a feces sample as well, since the first thing to get affected when he's stressed is his stomach. When they pulled some of his teeth, they did take a blood sample as well but he's all in the clear there save for a few imbalances that were minor and not of any significance. It wasn't that long ago, so I would assume not a lot has changed but if needed we'll look into that again, too. I just want my old grumpy to get better, bleh. :(

I'm actually not sure they do those at all out here, but I can ask them. The other time we took him in they were very good about getting him straight in, actually, so while I still wasn't overall pleased they were good in that sense and it was a very quiet and relaxed atmosphere there. If we have to take him in again, it's probably a good idea to try to book in early anyway, I don't want to risk having to run into a lot of people myself either. :p I haven't heard about Feliway, so maybe I'll look into it if it's available up here. Still hoping to avoid it, but if we have to go I would definitively want him to be as relaxed as possible.

Feel a little bad about it, but I'm hoping this might be as simple as a physical issue because at least then it will have an easier fix. He's shown no other signs of such issues and my gut isn't convinced, but it's probably better to be safe than sorry and my gut isn't exactly foolproof. :p
 

Columbine

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There's nothing wrong with hoping that an issue has a physical basis instead of a purely behavioural one. Physical issues have a clear cause, so the can feel like they're easier to get a handle on, and having such a clear explanation makes the behaviour easier to tolerate in the short term, as it' something we can more easily understand.

Whatever the root cause, I hope things improve very soon. Litterbox avoidance can be a nightmare. My girl has ruined two big (labrador sized) memory foam dog beds with her FIC flare ups :rolleyes: so I know first hand how frustrating this type of issue can be.
 
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